Re: Conformal Coatings
Michael, Back when I used to design coin operated games we had a problem with intentional ESD doing damage to the electronics. Turns out, that ESD would, every now and then, give a free game. Being rewarded with free games, they quickly learned a damaging ritual - the kids would link arms, up to six of them, scuff their feet around the carpeting and then discharge to the machine through a quarter to really blast the machine. More than likely they killed the machine, but what did they care? First thing I did was make the electronics extremely robust for ESD, *THEN* I modified the software so the slightest (interpret that to mean so low level that it wasn't damaging) ESD event simply reset the game, even erased accumulated games. They lost their money. Never had problems after that. The next time we watched a field installation, you couldn't believe how the kids protected those machines from even the most accidental of discharges. Like yelling at another kid to keep away while he's playing the game. Anyway, it was one way to get the customer to help protect your electronics. It's all in the reward/punishment system. - Robert - Robert A. Macy, PE .. m...@california.com 408 286 3985 . . . .. . . fx 408 297 9121 AJM International Electronics Consultants 101 E San Fernando, Suite 402 San Jose, CA 95112 On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:31:58 -0500 Sosnoski, Michael gl...@wmsgaming.com wrote: Ladies Gentlemen, I am wondering if you have ever heard or know of any printed circuit board conformal coatings that are better than others for protecting against ESD? Are some just better than others for anything? Not that we don't use proper grounding, shielding board layout techniques, but this industry is concerned with deliberate, and intentional stimuli to the equipment, and the more robust I can make the boards, connectors, etc,.. the better. Also, as in any commercial industry--the accountants Thanks, Mike --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Conformal Coatings
Ladies Gentlemen, I am wondering if you have ever heard or know of any printed circuit board conformal coatings that are better than others for protecting against ESD? Are some just better than others for anything? Not that we don't use proper grounding, shielding board layout techniques, but this industry is concerned with deliberate, and intentional stimuli to the equipment, and the more robust I can make the boards, connectors, etc,.. the better. Also, as in any commercial industry--the accountants Thanks, Mike This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Conductive Conformal Coatings for reducing PCB Emissions
Has anyone ever used this technology on a pcb that was required to pass agency creepage and clearance requirements? Which agency was involved, and how did they handle it? Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Manager, Engineering Services Xantrex Technology Inc. Mobile Power phone: (604) 422-2546 fax: (604) 420-1591 e-mail: jim.eich...@xantrex.com web: www.xantrex.com Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -Original Message- From: Aschenberg, Mat [mailto:matt.aschenb...@echostar.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 9:45 AM To: 'Chris Chileshe'; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Conductive Conformal Coatings for reducing PCB Emissions Chris, They way it was described to me... The conformal coating would encase the board, creating a sort of shield. Understandably, care is taken to prevent shorting of circuits. Whoever designed the technology has certainly dealt with those concerns. Mat -Original Message- From: Chris Chileshe [SMTP:chris.chile...@ultronics.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 9:22 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Conductive Conformal Coatings for reducing PCB Emissions Mat, Can we assume you mean conductive spray coatings for plastic caseworks? Wouldn't a conductive conformal coating would short out all the components on the PCB? Or is a two-pass technology with the ordinary insulating coating over the components and a conductive layer on the outside? Awaiting your clarification. - Regards - Chris -Original Message- From: Aschenberg, Mat [SMTP:matt.aschenb...@echostar.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 3:36 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Conductive Conformal Coatings for reducing PCB Emissions Hi All, A while back there was a push to use conductive conformal coatings for PCB emissions. Does anyone know if the technology still exists and if so who makes it?? Thanks --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard
RE: Conductive Conformal Coatings for reducing PCB Emissions
Group, Calling that stuff a Faraday Cage is way to optimistic. At such a close distance the E-field would be attenuated substantially, but it would do nothing for the H-field (magnetic)as it's way to close to the RF-currents. It would have done nothing for earth potentials creating cable Common Mode currents either. It's just a close field E-shielding. And then one should know that the E-field component emitting from a PCB can most of the time be neglected in real life emission problems. That's probably why it did not achieve market acceptance. For effective shielding one needs two (2) shields: - a defined potential (grounded) shield to block E-field - a thicker conductive shield that may carry induced currents to shield the H-field The more distance between the source, and the shield, the better it's efficiency , simply because less magnetic field lines have to cross the shield, and at a lower amplitude. Or in terms of field impedance (the quotient E/H): the closer to the source of a H-field, the lower the field impedance is, the lower shield impedance is required to achieve a certain amount of blocking. I mean: lower shield impedance both in terms of conductivity (material, thickness) and in terms of permeability (mu). Gert Gremmen -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Charles Grasso Sent: woensdag 3 juli 2002 18:24 To: chris.chile...@ultronics.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Conductive Conformal Coatings for reducing PCB Emissions Actually Chris there was a product that provided for a solder mask then had a conductive film ontop of that. The manufacturers could also tie this outer skin to the grounds on the printed circuit boord finally making the Faraday cage !! Papers I have read on this showed an excellent reduction in emissions (20dB) - neglecting the effects of the ICs I know that AMP used to market this but it did not seem to achieve markey acceptance. Charles Grasso From: Chris Chileshe chris.chile...@ultronics.com Reply-To: Chris Chileshe chris.chile...@ultronics.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Conductive Conformal Coatings for reducing PCB Emissions Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:21:55 +0100 Mat, Can we assume you mean conductive spray coatings for plastic caseworks? Wouldn't a conductive conformal coating would short out all the components on the PCB? Or is a two-pass technology with the ordinary insulating coating over the components and a conductive layer on the outside? Awaiting your clarification. - Regards - Chris -Original Message- From: Aschenberg, Mat [SMTP:matt.aschenb...@echostar.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 3:36 PM To:emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Conductive Conformal Coatings for reducing PCB Emissions Hi All, A while back there was a push to use conductive conformal coatings for PCB emissions. Does anyone know if the technology still exists and if so who makes it?? Thanks --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald
RE: Conductive Conformal Coatings for reducing PCB Emissions
Chris, They way it was described to me... The conformal coating would encase the board, creating a sort of shield. Understandably, care is taken to prevent shorting of circuits. Whoever designed the technology has certainly dealt with those concerns. Mat -Original Message- From: Chris Chileshe [SMTP:chris.chile...@ultronics.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 9:22 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Conductive Conformal Coatings for reducing PCB Emissions Mat, Can we assume you mean conductive spray coatings for plastic caseworks? Wouldn't a conductive conformal coating would short out all the components on the PCB? Or is a two-pass technology with the ordinary insulating coating over the components and a conductive layer on the outside? Awaiting your clarification. - Regards - Chris -Original Message- From: Aschenberg, Mat [SMTP:matt.aschenb...@echostar.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 3:36 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Conductive Conformal Coatings for reducing PCB Emissions Hi All, A while back there was a push to use conductive conformal coatings for PCB emissions. Does anyone know if the technology still exists and if so who makes it?? Thanks --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Conductive Conformal Coatings for reducing PCB Emissions
Thank you for the clarification Charles. Mat, that's a technology that seems to have just passed me by! I look forward to the comments on this. Regards - Chris -Original Message- From: Charles Grasso [SMTP:chasgra...@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 5:24 PM To: chris.chile...@ultronics.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject:RE: Conductive Conformal Coatings for reducing PCB Emissions Actually Chris there was a product that provided for a solder mask then had a conductive film ontop of that. The manufacturers could also tie this outer skin to the grounds on the printed circuit boord finally making the Faraday cage !! Papers I have read on this showed an excellent reduction in emissions (20dB) - neglecting the effects of the ICs I know that AMP used to market this but it did not seem to achieve markey acceptance. Charles Grasso From: Chris Chileshe chris.chile...@ultronics.com Reply-To: Chris Chileshe chris.chile...@ultronics.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Conductive Conformal Coatings for reducing PCB Emissions Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:21:55 +0100 Mat, Can we assume you mean conductive spray coatings for plastic caseworks? Wouldn't a conductive conformal coating would short out all the components on the PCB? Or is a two-pass technology with the ordinary insulating coating over the components and a conductive layer on the outside? Awaiting your clarification. - Regards - Chris -Original Message- From: Aschenberg, Mat [SMTP:matt.aschenb...@echostar.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 3:36 PM To:emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Conductive Conformal Coatings for reducing PCB Emissions Hi All, A while back there was a push to use conductive conformal coatings for PCB emissions. Does anyone know if the technology still exists and if so who makes it?? Thanks --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list _ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http
RE: Conductive Conformal Coatings for reducing PCB Emissions
Actually Chris there was a product that provided for a solder mask then had a conductive film ontop of that. The manufacturers could also tie this outer skin to the grounds on the printed circuit boord finally making the Faraday cage !! Papers I have read on this showed an excellent reduction in emissions (20dB) - neglecting the effects of the ICs I know that AMP used to market this but it did not seem to achieve markey acceptance. Charles Grasso From: Chris Chileshe chris.chile...@ultronics.com Reply-To: Chris Chileshe chris.chile...@ultronics.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Conductive Conformal Coatings for reducing PCB Emissions Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:21:55 +0100 Mat, Can we assume you mean conductive spray coatings for plastic caseworks? Wouldn't a conductive conformal coating would short out all the components on the PCB? Or is a two-pass technology with the ordinary insulating coating over the components and a conductive layer on the outside? Awaiting your clarification. - Regards - Chris -Original Message- From: Aschenberg, Mat [SMTP:matt.aschenb...@echostar.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 3:36 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject:Conductive Conformal Coatings for reducing PCB Emissions Hi All, A while back there was a push to use conductive conformal coatings for PCB emissions. Does anyone know if the technology still exists and if so who makes it?? Thanks --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
