RE: Denmark AC outlets
Hello Ian, Be careful in using this web site. It is not up-to-date for some countries, especially Brazil and Thailand. They also specify an Australian plug for Argentina, which is incorrect. Best regards, Ron Wellman At 08:34 AM 10/28/2003 +, Gordon,Ian wrote: >All >I have found the following page useful for determining what type of mains >connectors are used in different parts of the world: >http://www.interpower.com/icl/guide.htm. I'm sure there are others too! > >Ian Gordon > > >_ >This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed >Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit >http://www.mci.com > >--- >This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety >Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > >Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > >To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org >with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > >For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com > Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com > >For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > >Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. >All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Denmark AC outlets
All I have found the following page useful for determining what type of mains connectors are used in different parts of the world: http://www.interpower.com/icl/guide.htm. I'm sure there are others too! Ian Gordon _ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.mci.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
SV: Denmark AC outlets
Hi again No, the shown plug was a special EDB (Computer) plug which was introduced years ago. This plug is not at all mandatory. It is used where you wants to separate computers from being fed from same outlets as vacuumcleaners etc. which could generate electrical noise or other problems. Forget that you have seen this plug unless your are directly asked to deliver products with it. Normally a 3 plug mains outlet in DK is protected by a fault current protector, but for industrial use it is not always true. Office and home use have fault current protection ! Kim Boll Fra: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]På vegne af aiken Sendt: 24. oktober 2003 15:52 Til: richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Emne: Re: Denmark AC outlets Rich, The Shuko plug will not fit the special Danish grounded outlet. The Shuko pins are 4.8mm round pins and the special Danish grounded socket outlet will only accept the special Danish grounding type plug with unique (almost flat) pins. Here are some details I copied off the Feller web page. The top is the Danish plug, the bottom is the Shuko Rgds, Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC 27109 Palmetto Drive Orange Beach, AL 36561 USA tel ++ 1 251 981 6786 fax ++ 1 251 981 3054 Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648 From: To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 7:20 AM Subject: RE: Denmark AC outlets > > Kim, thanks for your input. Do I understand correctly that a 3-pin, > earthing-type Danish outlet is fault-current protected such that if a Shuko > plug is used and there is a mains to chassis fault, persons will be > protected? > > Richard Woods > Sensormatic Electronics > Tyco International > > > > -Original Message- > From: Kim Boll Jensen [mailto:k...@bolls.dk] > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 3:53 AM > To: EMC PSTC > Subject: SV: Denmark AC outlets > > > > Hi all > > I think I ought to comment this since I live in Denmark. > > The situation is not so simple. > > It depends on the installation location, industrial, commercial, wet-room, > type of equipment etc. > > 1. The most widely used system is a non-grounded socket protected by a > fault-current circuit (app. 30 mA). Here a Schuko type plug is preferred. > This covers 90% of all commercial installations and 50% of all office > installations. Therefore for in commercial use people have problems with the > grounded Danish plug and will have to change it to an un-grounded type > themselves. > > 2. New requirements for installations calls for installation of the Danish > grounded socket every-where. Here a Schuko is not good. But this requirement > is only for new building installation NOT a requirements for equipment at > the moment. > > 3. For professional use (laboratories etc.) most installations can use > grounded plugs. > > 4. Some product standards have national deviations which requires a warning > on Schuko connector that the installation shall have a fault current circuit > or a correct grounding plug shall be fitted. > > Best regards, > > > Kim Boll Jensen > Bolls Raadgivning > Denmark > > -Oprindelig meddelelse- > Fra: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]På vegne af aiken > Sendt: 22. oktober 2003 21:13 > Til: richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; Ronald R. > Wellman > Emne: Re: Denmark AC outlets > > > > Ron, Thanks. Your note below is believable. > > I only added that comment because I know the special Danish grounding plug > requires the special Danish grounded socket outlet. > > The Danish people I have dealt with preferred the Schuko plug because fits > the ordinary socket outlets (grounded and ungrounded) installed throughout > Denmark. > > I have also been told by Danish people that if a grounded socket outlet is > required for a particular product, an ordinary grounding type socket outlet > can be installed quicker than the special Danish socket - availability I > guess. > > The notion that a special grounding type plug and socket outlet was > necessary, that is incompatible with ordinary plugs and socket outlets, > never spread beyond the boarders of Denmark. > > My background is mostly ITE and Domestic appliances. So I sometimes get to > thinking the world revolves around those two categories. > > Best Regards, > > Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC > 27109 Palmetto Drive > Orange Beach, AL > 36561 USA > > tel ++ 1 251 981 6786 > fax ++ 1 251 981 3054 > Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648 > - Original Message - > From: Ronald R. Wellman > To: aiken ; ; > > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:21 PM > Subject: Re: Denmark AC outlets > > > > Hello Lou, > > > > You mention that "In practice, eve
RE: Denmark AC outlets
Dear Richard, In reply to your question whether the regulations allow the Schuko plug or require the Danish plug, I believe the answer lays in the standard AFSNIT 107-2-D1. I do not have it, however if you check this page from The Electricity Council: <http://www.elraadet.dk/view.asp?ID=161> http://www.elraadet.dk/view.asp?ID=161 you will see that for Class I equipment, you have the choice between different standard sheets (well, I guess normblad means standard sheet). "normblad C 2b - 10/16 A europæisk stikprop med jord (såkaldt Schukostikprop)" is, I guess, the Schuko plug. Can anyone reading Danish confirm this? Alain Giga-Byte From: richwo...@tycoint.com [ mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 9:53 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Denmark AC outlets I have heard that Danish regulations allow Type A pluggable Class 1 equipment to be installed without a ground connection as long as it is not located in a wet location. An allowable example would be such equipment that uses a "Shuko" plug. Does Denmark really allow this or do the regulations require the use of a Danish certified plug? Even if the practice is allowed, it would seem to me that a company should specify that its professionally installed equipment must use of a Danish plug in order to minimize liability to the company. What do you think? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Denmark AC outlets
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Rich, The Shuko plug will not fit the special Danish grounded outlet. The Shuko pins are 4.8mm round pins and the special Danish grounded socket outlet will only accept the special Danish grounding type plug with unique (almost flat) pins. Here are some details I copied off the Feller web page. The top is the Danish plug, the bottom is the Shuko Rgds, Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC 27109 Palmetto Drive Orange Beach, AL 36561 USA tel ++ 1 251 981 6786 fax ++ 1 251 981 3054 Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648 From: To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 7:20 AM Subject: RE: Denmark AC outlets > > Kim, thanks for your input. Do I understand correctly that a 3-pin, > earthing-type Danish outlet is fault-current protected such that if a Shuko > plug is used and there is a mains to chassis fault, persons will be > protected? > > Richard Woods > Sensormatic Electronics > Tyco International > > > > -Original Message- > From: Kim Boll Jensen [mailto:k...@bolls.dk] > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 3:53 AM > To: EMC PSTC > Subject: SV: Denmark AC outlets > > > > Hi all > > I think I ought to comment this since I live in Denmark. > > The situation is not so simple. > > It depends on the installation location, industrial, commercial, wet-room, > type of equipment etc. > > 1. The most widely used system is a non-grounded socket protected by a > fault-current circuit (app. 30 mA). Here a Schuko type plug is preferred. > This covers 90% of all commercial installations and 50% of all office > installations. Therefore for in commercial use people have problems with the > grounded Danish plug and will have to change it to an un-grounded type > themselves. > > 2. New requirements for installations calls for installation of the Danish > grounded socket every-where. Here a Schuko is not good. But this requirement > is only for new building installation NOT a requirements for equipment at > the moment. > > 3. For professional use (laboratories etc.) most installations can use > grounded plugs. > > 4. Some product standards have national deviations which requires a warning > on Schuko connector that the installation shall have a fault current circuit > or a correct grounding plug shall be fitted. > > Best regards, > > > Kim Boll Jensen > Bolls Raadgivning > Denmark > > -Oprindelig meddelelse- > Fra: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]På vegne af aiken > Sendt: 22. oktober 2003 21:13 > Til: richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; Ronald R. > Wellman > Emne: Re: Denmark AC outlets > > > > Ron, Thanks. Your note below is believable. > > I only added that comment because I know the special Danish grounding plug > requires the special Danish grounded socket outlet. > > The Danish people I have dealt with preferred the Schuko plug because fits > the ordinary socket outlets (grounded and ungrounded) installed throughout > Denmark. > > I have also been told by Danish people that if a grounded socket outlet is > required for a particular product, an ordinary grounding type socket outlet > can be installed quicker than the special Danish socket - availability I > guess. > > The notion that a special grounding type plug and socket outlet was > necessary, that is incompatible with ordinary plugs and socket outlets, > never spread beyond the boarders of Denmark. > > My background is mostly ITE and Domestic appliances. So I sometimes get to > thinking the world revolves around those two categories. > > Best Regards, > > Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC > 27109 Palmetto Drive > Orange Beach, AL > 36561 USA > > tel ++ 1 251 981 6786 > fax ++ 1 251 981 3054 > Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648 > - Original Message - > From: Ronald R. Wellman > To: aiken ; ; > > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:21 PM > Subject: Re: Denmark AC outlets > > > > Hello Lou, > > > > You mention that "In practice, everyone I know sends Schuko plugs to > > Denmark." Well, that is not necessarily true for manufacturers of test and > > measurement, and laboratory equipment. I have always specified the Danish > > plugs for Denmark without any problems for T&M equipment. In fact, I had > > requests from people in Denmark to not ship Schuko power cords to Denmark > > but only the Danish power cords. > > > > Best regards, > > Ron Wellman > > > > At 12:28 PM 10/22/2003 -0500, aiken wrote: > > > > >Rich, > > > > > >That is true, and not only in Denmark but throughout much of the > > >world. > > > > > >That Schuko plug (CEE
SV: Denmark AC outlets
Hi all I think I ought to comment this since I live in Denmark. The situation is not so simple. It depends on the installation location, industrial, commercial, wet-room, type of equipment etc. 1. The most widely used system is a non-grounded socket protected by a fault-current circuit (app. 30 mA). Here a Schuko type plug is preferred. This covers 90% of all commercial installations and 50% of all office installations. Therefore for in commercial use people have problems with the grounded Danish plug and will have to change it to an un-grounded type themselves. 2. New requirements for installations calls for installation of the Danish grounded socket every-where. Here a Schuko is not good. But this requirement is only for new building installation NOT a requirements for equipment at the moment. 3. For professional use (laboratories etc.) most installations can use grounded plugs. 4. Some product standards have national deviations which requires a warning on Schuko connector that the installation shall have a fault current circuit or a correct grounding plug shall be fitted. Best regards, Kim Boll Jensen Bolls Raadgivning Denmark Fra: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]På vegne af aiken Sendt: 22. oktober 2003 21:13 Til: richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; Ronald R. Wellman Emne: Re: Denmark AC outlets Ron, Thanks. Your note below is believable. I only added that comment because I know the special Danish grounding plug requires the special Danish grounded socket outlet. The Danish people I have dealt with preferred the Schuko plug because fits the ordinary socket outlets (grounded and ungrounded) installed throughout Denmark. I have also been told by Danish people that if a grounded socket outlet is required for a particular product, an ordinary grounding type socket outlet can be installed quicker than the special Danish socket - availability I guess. The notion that a special grounding type plug and socket outlet was necessary, that is incompatible with ordinary plugs and socket outlets, never spread beyond the boarders of Denmark. My background is mostly ITE and Domestic appliances. So I sometimes get to thinking the world revolves around those two categories. Best Regards, Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC 27109 Palmetto Drive Orange Beach, AL 36561 USA tel ++ 1 251 981 6786 fax ++ 1 251 981 3054 Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648 From: Ronald R. Wellman To: aiken ; ; Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Denmark AC outlets > Hello Lou, > > You mention that "In practice, everyone I know sends Schuko plugs to > Denmark." Well, that is not necessarily true for manufacturers of test and > measurement, and laboratory equipment. I have always specified the Danish > plugs for Denmark without any problems for T&M equipment. In fact, I had > requests from people in Denmark to not ship Schuko power cords to Denmark > but only the Danish power cords. > > Best regards, > Ron Wellman > > At 12:28 PM 10/22/2003 -0500, aiken wrote: > > >Rich, > > > >That is true, and not only in Denmark but throughout much of the > >world. > > > >That Schuko plug (CEE 7, Standard Sheet VII) is specifically designed to fit > >either a grounded or ungrounded socket outlet. Note the side grounding > >contacts. I will shoot you a pdf of the page in a separate note so the group > >does not have to down load it. > > > >The control is the installation requirement to provide grounded socket > >outlets but only where they are considered necessary. > > > >The exceptions being North America, the UK, Australia & NZ. > > > >Over the years I have observed that where the national language is English, > >grounding type socket outlets are provided everywhere. In most other > >countries grounded socket outlets are required in areas where grounding is > >considered necessary. I am sure there exceptions. > > > >This is an over simplification when the product also connects to the > >telephone network and grounding is necessary to provide extra protection > >between mains circuits and telephone circuits. > > > >I have never seen two surveys of REQUIRED plug approvals that agreed > >with one another. I eliminated that concern years ago by specifying plugs > >with the approval mark, if the country had such a mark available. > > > >Therefore, I am uncertain if the DEMKO mark is required in Denmark. > > > >Chances are that any mark from any EU country is enough. > > > >Schuko plugs made by major manufacturers will have the DEMKO approval mark. > >I always liked Feller with HQ near Vienna, Austria. There is a lot of > >information in their catalog; you should send for one. > > > >There IS a speci
RE: Denmark AC outlets
Kim, thanks for your input. Do I understand correctly that a 3-pin, earthing-type Danish outlet is fault-current protected such that if a Shuko plug is used and there is a mains to chassis fault, persons will be protected? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International From: Kim Boll Jensen [mailto:k...@bolls.dk] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 3:53 AM To: EMC PSTC Subject: SV: Denmark AC outlets Hi all I think I ought to comment this since I live in Denmark. The situation is not so simple. It depends on the installation location, industrial, commercial, wet-room, type of equipment etc. 1. The most widely used system is a non-grounded socket protected by a fault-current circuit (app. 30 mA). Here a Schuko type plug is preferred. This covers 90% of all commercial installations and 50% of all office installations. Therefore for in commercial use people have problems with the grounded Danish plug and will have to change it to an un-grounded type themselves. 2. New requirements for installations calls for installation of the Danish grounded socket every-where. Here a Schuko is not good. But this requirement is only for new building installation NOT a requirements for equipment at the moment. 3. For professional use (laboratories etc.) most installations can use grounded plugs. 4. Some product standards have national deviations which requires a warning on Schuko connector that the installation shall have a fault current circuit or a correct grounding plug shall be fitted. Best regards, Kim Boll Jensen Bolls Raadgivning Denmark Fra: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]På vegne af aiken Sendt: 22. oktober 2003 21:13 Til: richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; Ronald R. Wellman Emne: Re: Denmark AC outlets Ron, Thanks. Your note below is believable. I only added that comment because I know the special Danish grounding plug requires the special Danish grounded socket outlet. The Danish people I have dealt with preferred the Schuko plug because fits the ordinary socket outlets (grounded and ungrounded) installed throughout Denmark. I have also been told by Danish people that if a grounded socket outlet is required for a particular product, an ordinary grounding type socket outlet can be installed quicker than the special Danish socket - availability I guess. The notion that a special grounding type plug and socket outlet was necessary, that is incompatible with ordinary plugs and socket outlets, never spread beyond the boarders of Denmark. My background is mostly ITE and Domestic appliances. So I sometimes get to thinking the world revolves around those two categories. Best Regards, Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC 27109 Palmetto Drive Orange Beach, AL 36561 USA tel ++ 1 251 981 6786 fax ++ 1 251 981 3054 Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648 From: Ronald R. Wellman To: aiken ; ; Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Denmark AC outlets > Hello Lou, > > You mention that "In practice, everyone I know sends Schuko plugs to > Denmark." Well, that is not necessarily true for manufacturers of test and > measurement, and laboratory equipment. I have always specified the Danish > plugs for Denmark without any problems for T&M equipment. In fact, I had > requests from people in Denmark to not ship Schuko power cords to Denmark > but only the Danish power cords. > > Best regards, > Ron Wellman > > At 12:28 PM 10/22/2003 -0500, aiken wrote: > > >Rich, > > > >That is true, and not only in Denmark but throughout much of the > >world. > > > >That Schuko plug (CEE 7, Standard Sheet VII) is specifically designed to fit > >either a grounded or ungrounded socket outlet. Note the side grounding > >contacts. I will shoot you a pdf of the page in a separate note so the group > >does not have to down load it. > > > >The control is the installation requirement to provide grounded socket > >outlets but only where they are considered necessary. > > > >The exceptions being North America, the UK, Australia & NZ. > > > >Over the years I have observed that where the national language is English, > >grounding type socket outlets are provided everywhere. In most other > >countries grounded socket outlets are required in areas where grounding is > >considered necessary. I am sure there exceptions. > > > >This is an over simplification when the product also connects to the > >telephone network and grounding is necessary to provide extra protection > >between mains circuits and telephone circuits. > > > >I have never seen two surveys of REQUIRED plug approvals that agreed > >with one another. I eliminated that concern years ago by specifying plugs > >with the approval mark, if the country had such a mark available. > > > &g
Re: Denmark AC outlets
I read in !emc-pstc that aiken wrote (in <000701c398 d8$d576dac0$b18366d1@default>) about 'Denmark AC outlets' on Wed, 22 Oct 2003: >The notion that a special grounding type plug and socket outlet was >necessary, that is incompatible with ordinary plugs and socket outlets, >never spread beyond the boarders of Denmark. Some of those Danish boarders came to board in Britain about 1400 years ago, of course. That's probably why we have a special grounding type plug and socket outlet, everywhere. (;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Denmark AC outlets
Ron, Thanks. Your note below is believable. I only added that comment because I know the special Danish grounding plug requires the special Danish grounded socket outlet. The Danish people I have dealt with preferred the Schuko plug because fits the ordinary socket outlets (grounded and ungrounded) installed throughout Denmark. I have also been told by Danish people that if a grounded socket outlet is required for a particular product, an ordinary grounding type socket outlet can be installed quicker than the special Danish socket - availability I guess. The notion that a special grounding type plug and socket outlet was necessary, that is incompatible with ordinary plugs and socket outlets, never spread beyond the boarders of Denmark. My background is mostly ITE and Domestic appliances. So I sometimes get to thinking the world revolves around those two categories. Best Regards, Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC 27109 Palmetto Drive Orange Beach, AL 36561 USA tel ++ 1 251 981 6786 fax ++ 1 251 981 3054 Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648 From: Ronald R. Wellman To: aiken ; ; Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Denmark AC outlets > Hello Lou, > > You mention that "In practice, everyone I know sends Schuko plugs to > Denmark." Well, that is not necessarily true for manufacturers of test and > measurement, and laboratory equipment. I have always specified the Danish > plugs for Denmark without any problems for T&M equipment. In fact, I had > requests from people in Denmark to not ship Schuko power cords to Denmark > but only the Danish power cords. > > Best regards, > Ron Wellman > > At 12:28 PM 10/22/2003 -0500, aiken wrote: > > >Rich, > > > >That is true, and not only in Denmark but throughout much of the > >world. > > > >That Schuko plug (CEE 7, Standard Sheet VII) is specifically designed to fit > >either a grounded or ungrounded socket outlet. Note the side grounding > >contacts. I will shoot you a pdf of the page in a separate note so the group > >does not have to down load it. > > > >The control is the installation requirement to provide grounded socket > >outlets but only where they are considered necessary. > > > >The exceptions being North America, the UK, Australia & NZ. > > > >Over the years I have observed that where the national language is English, > >grounding type socket outlets are provided everywhere. In most other > >countries grounded socket outlets are required in areas where grounding is > >considered necessary. I am sure there exceptions. > > > >This is an over simplification when the product also connects to the > >telephone network and grounding is necessary to provide extra protection > >between mains circuits and telephone circuits. > > > >I have never seen two surveys of REQUIRED plug approvals that agreed > >with one another. I eliminated that concern years ago by specifying plugs > >with the approval mark, if the country had such a mark available. > > > >Therefore, I am uncertain if the DEMKO mark is required in Denmark. > > > >Chances are that any mark from any EU country is enough. > > > >Schuko plugs made by major manufacturers will have the DEMKO approval mark. > >I always liked Feller with HQ near Vienna, Austria. There is a lot of > >information in their catalog; you should send for one. > > > >There IS a special Danish Grounding type plug for use only in Denmark and > >only for a product where grounding is required. It fits only a special > >Danish grounding type socket outlet.I don't have a standard sheet for it, > >but you can see it on the Feller web page http://www.feller-at.com/ if > >you are interested. > > > >In practice, everyone I know sends Schuko plugs to Denmark. > > > >If you offer that special Danish grounding type plug the chances are > >good your customer or distributor will ask for the Schuko > > > >Regards, Lou > > > >Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC > >27109 Palmetto Drive > >Orange Beach, AL > >36561 USA > > > >tel ++ 1 251 981 6786 > >fax ++ 1 251 981 3054 > >Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648 > >- Original Message - > >From: > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 8:53 AM > >Subject: Denmark AC outlets > > > > > > > > > > I have heard that Danish regulations allow Type A pluggable Class 1 > > > equipment to be installed without a ground connection as long as it is not > > > located in a wet location. An allowable example would be such equipment > >that > > > uses a "Shuko" plug. Does Denmark really allow this or do the regulations > > >
Re: Denmark AC outlets
Hello Lou, You mention that "In practice, everyone I know sends Schuko plugs to Denmark." Well, that is not necessarily true for manufacturers of test and measurement, and laboratory equipment. I have always specified the Danish plugs for Denmark without any problems for T&M equipment. In fact, I had requests from people in Denmark to not ship Schuko power cords to Denmark but only the Danish power cords. Best regards, Ron Wellman At 12:28 PM 10/22/2003 -0500, aiken wrote: >Rich, > >That is true, and not only in Denmark but throughout much of the >world. > >That Schuko plug (CEE 7, Standard Sheet VII) is specifically designed to fit >either a grounded or ungrounded socket outlet. Note the side grounding >contacts. I will shoot you a pdf of the page in a separate note so the group >does not have to down load it. > >The control is the installation requirement to provide grounded socket >outlets but only where they are considered necessary. > >The exceptions being North America, the UK, Australia & NZ. > >Over the years I have observed that where the national language is English, >grounding type socket outlets are provided everywhere. In most other >countries grounded socket outlets are required in areas where grounding is >considered necessary. I am sure there exceptions. > >This is an over simplification when the product also connects to the >telephone network and grounding is necessary to provide extra protection >between mains circuits and telephone circuits. > >I have never seen two surveys of REQUIRED plug approvals that agreed >with one another. I eliminated that concern years ago by specifying plugs >with the approval mark, if the country had such a mark available. > >Therefore, I am uncertain if the DEMKO mark is required in Denmark. > >Chances are that any mark from any EU country is enough. > >Schuko plugs made by major manufacturers will have the DEMKO approval mark. >I always liked Feller with HQ near Vienna, Austria. There is a lot of >information in their catalog; you should send for one. > >There IS a special Danish Grounding type plug for use only in Denmark and >only for a product where grounding is required. It fits only a special >Danish grounding type socket outlet.I don't have a standard sheet for it, >but you can see it on the Feller web page http://www.feller-at.com/ if >you are interested. > >In practice, everyone I know sends Schuko plugs to Denmark. > >If you offer that special Danish grounding type plug the chances are >good your customer or distributor will ask for the Schuko > >Regards, Lou > >Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC >27109 Palmetto Drive >Orange Beach, AL >36561 USA > >tel ++ 1 251 981 6786 >fax ++ 1 251 981 3054 >Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648 >- Original Message - >From: >To: >Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 8:53 AM >Subject: Denmark AC outlets > > > > > > I have heard that Danish regulations allow Type A pluggable Class 1 > > equipment to be installed without a ground connection as long as it is not > > located in a wet location. An allowable example would be such equipment >that > > uses a "Shuko" plug. Does Denmark really allow this or do the regulations > > require the use of a Danish certified plug? Even if the practice is >allowed, > > it would seem to me that a company should specify that its professionally > > installed equipment must use of a Danish plug in order to minimize >liability > > to the company. What do you think? > > > > Richard Woods > > Sensormatic Electronics > > Tyco International > > > > > > --- > > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > > majord...@ieee.org > > with the single line: > > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com > > Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com > > > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > > > Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > > > > > > > > > >--- >This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Produ
Re: Denmark AC outlets
Rich, That is true, and not only in Denmark but throughout much of the world. That Schuko plug (CEE 7, Standard Sheet VII) is specifically designed to fit either a grounded or ungrounded socket outlet. Note the side grounding contacts. I will shoot you a pdf of the page in a separate note so the group does not have to down load it. The control is the installation requirement to provide grounded socket outlets but only where they are considered necessary. The exceptions being North America, the UK, Australia & NZ. Over the years I have observed that where the national language is English, grounding type socket outlets are provided everywhere. In most other countries grounded socket outlets are required in areas where grounding is considered necessary. I am sure there exceptions. This is an over simplification when the product also connects to the telephone network and grounding is necessary to provide extra protection between mains circuits and telephone circuits. I have never seen two surveys of REQUIRED plug approvals that agreed with one another. I eliminated that concern years ago by specifying plugs with the approval mark, if the country had such a mark available. Therefore, I am uncertain if the DEMKO mark is required in Denmark. Chances are that any mark from any EU country is enough. Schuko plugs made by major manufacturers will have the DEMKO approval mark. I always liked Feller with HQ near Vienna, Austria. There is a lot of information in their catalog; you should send for one. There IS a special Danish Grounding type plug for use only in Denmark and only for a product where grounding is required. It fits only a special Danish grounding type socket outlet.I don't have a standard sheet for it, but you can see it on the Feller web page http://www.feller-at.com/ if you are interested. In practice, everyone I know sends Schuko plugs to Denmark. If you offer that special Danish grounding type plug the chances are good your customer or distributor will ask for the Schuko Regards, Lou Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC 27109 Palmetto Drive Orange Beach, AL 36561 USA tel ++ 1 251 981 6786 fax ++ 1 251 981 3054 Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648 From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 8:53 AM Subject: Denmark AC outlets > > I have heard that Danish regulations allow Type A pluggable Class 1 > equipment to be installed without a ground connection as long as it is not > located in a wet location. An allowable example would be such equipment that > uses a "Shuko" plug. Does Denmark really allow this or do the regulations > require the use of a Danish certified plug? Even if the practice is allowed, > it would seem to me that a company should specify that its professionally > installed equipment must use of a Danish plug in order to minimize liability > to the company. What do you think? > > Richard Woods > Sensormatic Electronics > Tyco International > > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com > Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Denmark AC outlets
Hello Richard, I would not want a Class 1 product installed without a protective earth ground. I know that we have to continuously deal with installations that do not provide earth grounding but that's the way things are. It is best to ship products with the appropriate power cord for its intended use, as defined by the manufacturer. As for Denmark, use the Danish plug. BTW, I had an experience where a test and measurement product's leakage current was just around 3.0 ma. Marketing wanted to know if we could use the product ungrounded. To convince them, I asked if they wanted to touch the ungrounded product's metal enclosure and ground themselves. They declined. Best regards, Ron Wellman At 09:53 AM 10/22/2003 -0400, richwo...@tycoint.com wrote: >I have heard that Danish regulations allow Type A pluggable Class 1 >equipment to be installed without a ground connection as long as it is not >located in a wet location. An allowable example would be such equipment that >uses a "Shuko" plug. Does Denmark really allow this or do the regulations >require the use of a Danish certified plug? Even if the practice is allowed, >it would seem to me that a company should specify that its professionally >installed equipment must use of a Danish plug in order to minimize liability >to the company. What do you think? > >Richard Woods >Sensormatic Electronics >Tyco International > > >--- >This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety >Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > >Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > >To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org >with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > >For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com > Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com > >For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > >Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. >All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Denmark AC outlets
I have heard that Danish regulations allow Type A pluggable Class 1 equipment to be installed without a ground connection as long as it is not located in a wet location. An allowable example would be such equipment that uses a "Shuko" plug. Does Denmark really allow this or do the regulations require the use of a Danish certified plug? Even if the practice is allowed, it would seem to me that a company should specify that its professionally installed equipment must use of a Danish plug in order to minimize liability to the company. What do you think? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
