RE: Denmark AC outlets

2003-10-28 Thread Ronald R. Wellman

Hello Ian,

Be careful in using this web site. It is not up-to-date for some countries, 
especially Brazil and Thailand. They also specify an Australian plug for 
Argentina, which is incorrect.

Best regards,
Ron Wellman

At 08:34 AM 10/28/2003 +, Gordon,Ian wrote:

>All
>I have found the following page useful for determining what type of mains
>connectors are used in different parts of the world:
>http://www.interpower.com/icl/guide.htm. I'm sure there are others too!
>
>Ian Gordon
>
>
>_
>This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed 
>Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit 
>http://www.mci.com
>
>---
>This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
>Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
>
>Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
>
>To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
>  majord...@ieee.org
>with the single line:
>  unsubscribe emc-pstc
>
>For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>  Ron Pickard:  emc-p...@hypercom.com
>  Dave Heald:   emc_p...@symbol.com
>
>For policy questions, send mail to:
>  Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
>  Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
>
>Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line.
>All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc




This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Ron Pickard:  emc-p...@hypercom.com
 Dave Heald:   emc_p...@symbol.com

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line.
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc



RE: Denmark AC outlets

2003-10-28 Thread Gordon,Ian

All
I have found the following page useful for determining what type of mains
connectors are used in different parts of the world:
http://www.interpower.com/icl/guide.htm. I'm sure there are others too!

Ian Gordon
 

_
This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning
Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit
http://www.mci.com


This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Ron Pickard:  emc-p...@hypercom.com
 Dave Heald:   emc_p...@symbol.com

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line.
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc



RE: Denmark AC outlets

2003-10-24 Thread alain.sam...@gigabyte.com.tw
Dear Richard,

In reply to your question whether the regulations allow the Schuko plug or 
require the Danish plug, I believe the answer lays in the standard AFSNIT 
107-2-D1. I do not have it, however if you check this page from The Electricity 
Council:   
http://www.elraadet.dk/view.asp?ID=161

you will see that for Class I equipment, you have the choice between different 
standard sheets (well, I guess normblad means standard sheet). 

"normblad C 2b - 10/16 A europæisk stikprop med jord (såkaldt Schukostikprop)" 
is, I guess, the Schuko plug. 

Can anyone reading Danish confirm this?

Alain

Giga-Byte


From: richwo...@tycoint.com [ mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 9:53 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Denmark AC outlets


I have heard that Danish regulations allow Type A pluggable Class 1

equipment to be installed without a ground connection as long as it is not

located in a wet location. An allowable example would be such equipment that

uses a "Shuko" plug. Does Denmark really allow this or do the regulations

require the use of a Danish certified plug? Even if the practice is allowed,

it would seem to me that a company should specify that its professionally

installed equipment must use of a Danish plug in order to minimize liability

to the company. What do you think?

Richard Woods

Sensormatic Electronics

Tyco International




This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety

Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:

 majord...@ieee.org

with the single line:

 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:

 Ron Pickard:  emc-p...@hypercom.com

 Dave Heald:   emc_p...@symbol.com

For policy questions, send mail to:

 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org

 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line.

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:

http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc




Re: Denmark AC outlets

2003-10-24 Thread aiken
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Rich, The Shuko plug will not fit the special Danish grounded outlet.  The
Shuko pins are 4.8mm round pins and the special Danish grounded socket
outlet will only  accept the special Danish grounding type plug with unique
(almost flat) pins.  Here are some details I copied off the Feller web page.
The top is the Danish plug, the bottom is the Shuko






Rgds,

Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC
27109 Palmetto Drive
Orange Beach, AL
36561 USA

tel ++ 1 251 981 6786
fax ++ 1 251 981 3054
Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648

From: 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 7:20 AM
Subject: RE: Denmark AC outlets


>
> Kim, thanks for your input. Do I understand correctly that a 3-pin,
> earthing-type Danish outlet is fault-current protected such that if a
Shuko
> plug is used and there is a mains to chassis fault, persons will be
> protected?
>
> Richard Woods
> Sensormatic Electronics
> Tyco International
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Kim Boll Jensen [mailto:k...@bolls.dk]
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 3:53 AM
> To: EMC PSTC
> Subject: SV: Denmark AC outlets
>
>
>
> Hi all
>
> I think I ought to comment this since I live in Denmark.
>
> The situation is not so simple.
>
> It depends on the installation location, industrial, commercial, wet-room,
> type of equipment etc.
>
> 1. The most widely used system is a non-grounded socket protected by a
> fault-current circuit (app. 30 mA). Here a Schuko type plug is preferred.
> This covers 90% of all commercial installations and 50% of all office
> installations. Therefore for in commercial use people have problems with
the
> grounded Danish plug and will have to change it to an un-grounded type
> themselves.
>
> 2. New requirements for installations calls for installation of the Danish
> grounded socket every-where. Here a Schuko is not good. But this
requirement
> is only for new building installation NOT a requirements for equipment at
> the moment.
>
> 3. For professional use (laboratories etc.) most installations can use
> grounded plugs.
>
> 4. Some product standards have national deviations which requires a
warning
> on Schuko connector that the installation shall have a fault current
circuit
> or a correct grounding plug shall be fitted.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Kim Boll Jensen
> Bolls Raadgivning
> Denmark
>
> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
> [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]På vegne af aiken
> Sendt: 22. oktober 2003 21:13
> Til: richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; Ronald R.
> Wellman
> Emne: Re: Denmark AC outlets
>
>
>
> Ron, Thanks.  Your note below is believable.
>
> I only added that comment because I know the special Danish grounding plug
> requires the special Danish grounded socket outlet.
>
> The Danish people I have dealt with preferred the Schuko plug because fits
> the ordinary socket outlets (grounded and ungrounded) installed throughout
> Denmark.
>
> I have also been told by Danish people that if a grounded socket outlet is
> required for a particular product, an ordinary grounding type socket
outlet
> can be installed quicker than the special Danish socket - availability I
> guess.
>
> The notion that a special grounding type plug and socket outlet was
> necessary, that is incompatible with ordinary plugs and socket outlets,
> never spread beyond the boarders of Denmark.
>
> My background is mostly ITE and Domestic appliances.  So I sometimes get
to
> thinking the world revolves around those two categories.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC
> 27109 Palmetto Drive
> Orange Beach, AL
> 36561 USA
>
> tel ++ 1 251 981 6786
> fax ++ 1 251 981 3054
> Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648
> - Original Message -
> From: Ronald R. Wellman 
> To: aiken ; ;
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Denmark AC outlets
>
>
> > Hello Lou,
> >
> > You mention that "In practice, everyone I know sends Schuko plugs to
> > Denmark." Well, that is not necessarily true for manufacturers of test
and
> > measurement, and laboratory equipment. I have always specified the
Danish
> > plugs for Denmark without any problems for T&M equipment. In fact, I had
> > requests from people in Denmark to not ship Schuko power cords to
Denmark
> > but only the Danish power cords.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Ron Wellman
> >
> > At 12:28 PM 10/22/2003 -0500, aiken wrote:
> >
> > >Rich,
> > >
> > >That is true, and not only in Denmark but throughout much of the
> > >world.
> > >
> > >That Schuko plug (CEE 

RE: Denmark AC outlets

2003-10-24 Thread richwo...@tycoint.com

Kim, thanks for your input. Do I understand correctly that a 3-pin,
earthing-type Danish outlet is fault-current protected such that if a Shuko
plug is used and there is a mains to chassis fault, persons will be
protected?

Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International




From: Kim Boll Jensen [mailto:k...@bolls.dk]
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 3:53 AM
To: EMC PSTC
Subject: SV: Denmark AC outlets



Hi all

I think I ought to comment this since I live in Denmark.

The situation is not so simple.

It depends on the installation location, industrial, commercial, wet-room,
type of equipment etc.

1. The most widely used system is a non-grounded socket protected by a
fault-current circuit (app. 30 mA). Here a Schuko type plug is preferred.
This covers 90% of all commercial installations and 50% of all office
installations. Therefore for in commercial use people have problems with the
grounded Danish plug and will have to change it to an un-grounded type
themselves.

2. New requirements for installations calls for installation of the Danish
grounded socket every-where. Here a Schuko is not good. But this requirement
is only for new building installation NOT a requirements for equipment at
the moment.

3. For professional use (laboratories etc.) most installations can use
grounded plugs.

4. Some product standards have national deviations which requires a warning
on Schuko connector that the installation shall have a fault current circuit
or a correct grounding plug shall be fitted.

Best regards,


Kim Boll Jensen
Bolls Raadgivning
Denmark


Fra: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]På vegne af aiken
Sendt: 22. oktober 2003 21:13
Til: richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; Ronald R.
Wellman
Emne: Re: Denmark AC outlets



Ron, Thanks.  Your note below is believable.

I only added that comment because I know the special Danish grounding plug
requires the special Danish grounded socket outlet.

The Danish people I have dealt with preferred the Schuko plug because fits
the ordinary socket outlets (grounded and ungrounded) installed throughout
Denmark.

I have also been told by Danish people that if a grounded socket outlet is
required for a particular product, an ordinary grounding type socket outlet
can be installed quicker than the special Danish socket - availability I
guess.

The notion that a special grounding type plug and socket outlet was
necessary, that is incompatible with ordinary plugs and socket outlets,
never spread beyond the boarders of Denmark.

My background is mostly ITE and Domestic appliances.  So I sometimes get to
thinking the world revolves around those two categories.

Best Regards,

Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC
27109 Palmetto Drive
Orange Beach, AL
36561 USA

tel ++ 1 251 981 6786
fax ++ 1 251 981 3054
Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648

From: Ronald R. Wellman 
To: aiken ; ;

Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Denmark AC outlets


> Hello Lou,
>
> You mention that "In practice, everyone I know sends Schuko plugs to
> Denmark." Well, that is not necessarily true for manufacturers of test and
> measurement, and laboratory equipment. I have always specified the Danish
> plugs for Denmark without any problems for T&M equipment. In fact, I had
> requests from people in Denmark to not ship Schuko power cords to Denmark
> but only the Danish power cords.
>
> Best regards,
> Ron Wellman
>
> At 12:28 PM 10/22/2003 -0500, aiken wrote:
>
> >Rich,
> >
> >That is true, and not only in Denmark but throughout much of the
> >world.
> >
> >That Schuko plug (CEE 7, Standard Sheet VII) is specifically designed to
fit
> >either a grounded or ungrounded socket outlet.  Note the side grounding
> >contacts. I will shoot you a pdf of the page in a separate note so the
group
> >does not have to down load it.
> >
> >The control is the installation requirement to provide grounded socket
> >outlets but only where they are considered necessary.
> >
> >The exceptions being North America, the UK, Australia & NZ.
> >
> >Over the years I have observed that where the national language is
English,
> >grounding type socket outlets are provided everywhere.  In most other
> >countries grounded socket outlets are required in areas where grounding
is
> >considered necessary.  I am sure there exceptions.
> >
> >This is an over simplification when the product also connects to the
> >telephone network and grounding is necessary to provide extra protection
> >between mains circuits and telephone circuits.
> >
> >I have never seen two surveys of REQUIRED plug approvals that agreed
> >with one another. I eliminated that  concern years ago by specifying
plugs
> >with the approval mark, if the country had such a mark available.
> >
> &g

Re: Denmark AC outlets

2003-10-22 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that aiken  wrote (in <000701c398
d8$d576dac0$b18366d1@default>) about 'Denmark AC outlets' on Wed, 22 Oct
2003:
>The notion that a special grounding type plug and socket outlet was 
>necessary, that is incompatible with ordinary plugs and socket outlets, 
>never spread beyond the boarders of Denmark.

Some of those Danish boarders came to board in Britain about 1400 years
ago, of course. That's probably why we have a special grounding type
plug and socket outlet, everywhere. (;-)

-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Ron Pickard:  emc-p...@hypercom.com
 Dave Heald:   emc_p...@symbol.com

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line.
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc



Re: Denmark AC outlets

2003-10-22 Thread aiken

Ron, Thanks.  Your note below is believable.

I only added that comment because I know the special Danish grounding plug
requires the special Danish grounded socket outlet.

The Danish people I have dealt with preferred the Schuko plug because fits
the ordinary socket outlets (grounded and ungrounded) installed throughout
Denmark.

I have also been told by Danish people that if a grounded socket outlet is
required for a particular product, an ordinary grounding type socket outlet
can be installed quicker than the special Danish socket - availability I
guess.

The notion that a special grounding type plug and socket outlet was
necessary, that is incompatible with ordinary plugs and socket outlets,
never spread beyond the boarders of Denmark.

My background is mostly ITE and Domestic appliances.  So I sometimes get to
thinking the world revolves around those two categories.

Best Regards,

Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC
27109 Palmetto Drive
Orange Beach, AL
36561 USA

tel ++ 1 251 981 6786
fax ++ 1 251 981 3054
Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648

From: Ronald R. Wellman 
To: aiken ; ;

Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Denmark AC outlets


> Hello Lou,
>
> You mention that "In practice, everyone I know sends Schuko plugs to
> Denmark." Well, that is not necessarily true for manufacturers of test and
> measurement, and laboratory equipment. I have always specified the Danish
> plugs for Denmark without any problems for T&M equipment. In fact, I had
> requests from people in Denmark to not ship Schuko power cords to Denmark
> but only the Danish power cords.
>
> Best regards,
> Ron Wellman
>
> At 12:28 PM 10/22/2003 -0500, aiken wrote:
>
> >Rich,
> >
> >That is true, and not only in Denmark but throughout much of the
> >world.
> >
> >That Schuko plug (CEE 7, Standard Sheet VII) is specifically designed to
fit
> >either a grounded or ungrounded socket outlet.  Note the side grounding
> >contacts. I will shoot you a pdf of the page in a separate note so the
group
> >does not have to down load it.
> >
> >The control is the installation requirement to provide grounded socket
> >outlets but only where they are considered necessary.
> >
> >The exceptions being North America, the UK, Australia & NZ.
> >
> >Over the years I have observed that where the national language is
English,
> >grounding type socket outlets are provided everywhere.  In most other
> >countries grounded socket outlets are required in areas where grounding
is
> >considered necessary.  I am sure there exceptions.
> >
> >This is an over simplification when the product also connects to the
> >telephone network and grounding is necessary to provide extra protection
> >between mains circuits and telephone circuits.
> >
> >I have never seen two surveys of REQUIRED plug approvals that agreed
> >with one another. I eliminated that  concern years ago by specifying
plugs
> >with the approval mark, if the country had such a mark available.
> >
> >Therefore, I am uncertain if the DEMKO mark is required in Denmark.
> >
> >Chances are that any mark from any EU country is enough.
> >
> >Schuko plugs made by major manufacturers will have the DEMKO approval
mark.
> >I always liked Feller with HQ near Vienna, Austria. There is a lot of
> >information in their catalog; you should send for one.
> >
> >There IS a special Danish Grounding type plug for use only in Denmark and
> >only for a product where grounding is required. It fits only a special
> >Danish grounding type socket outlet.I don't have a standard sheet for it,
> >but you can see it on the Feller web page http://www.feller-at.com/ if
> >you are interested.
> >
> >In practice, everyone I know sends Schuko plugs to Denmark.
> >
> >If you offer that special Danish grounding type plug the chances are
> >good your customer or distributor will ask for the Schuko
> >
> >Regards, Lou
> >
> >Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC
> >27109 Palmetto Drive
> >Orange Beach, AL
> >36561 USA
> >
> >tel ++ 1 251 981 6786
> >fax ++ 1 251 981 3054
> >Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648
> >- Original Message -
> >From: 
> >To: 
> >Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 8:53 AM
> >Subject: Denmark AC outlets
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I have heard that Danish regulations allow Type A pluggable Class 1
> > > equipment to be installed without a ground connection as long as it is
not
> > > located in a wet location. An allowable example would be such
equipment
> >that
> > > uses a "Shuko" plug. Does Denmark really allow this or do the
regulations
> > >

Re: Denmark AC outlets

2003-10-22 Thread Ronald R. Wellman

Hello Lou,

You mention that "In practice, everyone I know sends Schuko plugs to 
Denmark." Well, that is not necessarily true for manufacturers of test and 
measurement, and laboratory equipment. I have always specified the Danish 
plugs for Denmark without any problems for T&M equipment. In fact, I had 
requests from people in Denmark to not ship Schuko power cords to Denmark 
but only the Danish power cords.

Best regards,
Ron Wellman

At 12:28 PM 10/22/2003 -0500, aiken wrote:

>Rich,
>
>That is true, and not only in Denmark but throughout much of the
>world.
>
>That Schuko plug (CEE 7, Standard Sheet VII) is specifically designed to fit
>either a grounded or ungrounded socket outlet.  Note the side grounding
>contacts. I will shoot you a pdf of the page in a separate note so the group
>does not have to down load it.
>
>The control is the installation requirement to provide grounded socket
>outlets but only where they are considered necessary.
>
>The exceptions being North America, the UK, Australia & NZ.
>
>Over the years I have observed that where the national language is English,
>grounding type socket outlets are provided everywhere.  In most other
>countries grounded socket outlets are required in areas where grounding is
>considered necessary.  I am sure there exceptions.
>
>This is an over simplification when the product also connects to the
>telephone network and grounding is necessary to provide extra protection
>between mains circuits and telephone circuits.
>
>I have never seen two surveys of REQUIRED plug approvals that agreed
>with one another. I eliminated that  concern years ago by specifying plugs
>with the approval mark, if the country had such a mark available.
>
>Therefore, I am uncertain if the DEMKO mark is required in Denmark.
>
>Chances are that any mark from any EU country is enough.
>
>Schuko plugs made by major manufacturers will have the DEMKO approval mark.
>I always liked Feller with HQ near Vienna, Austria. There is a lot of
>information in their catalog; you should send for one.
>
>There IS a special Danish Grounding type plug for use only in Denmark and
>only for a product where grounding is required. It fits only a special
>Danish grounding type socket outlet.I don't have a standard sheet for it,
>but you can see it on the Feller web page http://www.feller-at.com/ if
>you are interested.
>
>In practice, everyone I know sends Schuko plugs to Denmark.
>
>If you offer that special Danish grounding type plug the chances are
>good your customer or distributor will ask for the Schuko
>
>Regards, Lou
>
>Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC
>27109 Palmetto Drive
>Orange Beach, AL
>36561 USA
>
>tel ++ 1 251 981 6786
>fax ++ 1 251 981 3054
>Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648
>- Original Message -
>From: 
>To: 
>Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 8:53 AM
>Subject: Denmark AC outlets
>
>
> >
> > I have heard that Danish regulations allow Type A pluggable Class 1
> > equipment to be installed without a ground connection as long as it is not
> > located in a wet location. An allowable example would be such equipment
>that
> > uses a "Shuko" plug. Does Denmark really allow this or do the regulations
> > require the use of a Danish certified plug? Even if the practice is
>allowed,
> > it would seem to me that a company should specify that its professionally
> > installed equipment must use of a Danish plug in order to minimize
>liability
> > to the company. What do you think?
> >
> > Richard Woods
> > Sensormatic Electronics
> > Tyco International
> >
> >
> > ---
> > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
> >
> > Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
> >
> > To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
> >  majord...@ieee.org
> > with the single line:
> >  unsubscribe emc-pstc
> >
> > For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> >  Ron Pickard:  emc-p...@hypercom.com
> >  Dave Heald:   emc_p...@symbol.com
> >
> > For policy questions, send mail to:
> >  Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
> >  Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
> >
> > Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line.
> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>---
>This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
>Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
>
>Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
>
>To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
>  majord...@ieee.org
>with the single line:
>  unsubscribe emc-pstc
>
>For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>  Ron Pickard:  emc-p...@hypercom.com
>  Dave Heald:   emc_p...@symbol.com
>
>For policy questions, send mail to:
>  Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
>  Jim

Re: Denmark AC outlets

2003-10-22 Thread aiken

Rich,

That is true, and not only in Denmark but throughout much of the
world.

That Schuko plug (CEE 7, Standard Sheet VII) is specifically designed to fit
either a grounded or ungrounded socket outlet.  Note the side grounding
contacts. I will shoot you a pdf of the page in a separate note so the group
does not have to down load it.

The control is the installation requirement to provide grounded socket
outlets but only where they are considered necessary.

The exceptions being North America, the UK, Australia & NZ.

Over the years I have observed that where the national language is English,
grounding type socket outlets are provided everywhere.  In most other
countries grounded socket outlets are required in areas where grounding is
considered necessary.  I am sure there exceptions.

This is an over simplification when the product also connects to the
telephone network and grounding is necessary to provide extra protection
between mains circuits and telephone circuits.

I have never seen two surveys of REQUIRED plug approvals that agreed
with one another. I eliminated that  concern years ago by specifying plugs
with the approval mark, if the country had such a mark available.

Therefore, I am uncertain if the DEMKO mark is required in Denmark.

Chances are that any mark from any EU country is enough.

Schuko plugs made by major manufacturers will have the DEMKO approval mark.
I always liked Feller with HQ near Vienna, Austria. There is a lot of
information in their catalog; you should send for one.

There IS a special Danish Grounding type plug for use only in Denmark and
only for a product where grounding is required. It fits only a special
Danish grounding type socket outlet.I don't have a standard sheet for it,
but you can see it on the Feller web page http://www.feller-at.com/ if
you are interested.

In practice, everyone I know sends Schuko plugs to Denmark.

If you offer that special Danish grounding type plug the chances are
good your customer or distributor will ask for the Schuko

Regards, Lou

Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC
27109 Palmetto Drive
Orange Beach, AL
36561 USA

tel ++ 1 251 981 6786
fax ++ 1 251 981 3054
Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648

From: 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 8:53 AM
Subject: Denmark AC outlets


>
> I have heard that Danish regulations allow Type A pluggable Class 1
> equipment to be installed without a ground connection as long as it is not
> located in a wet location. An allowable example would be such equipment
that
> uses a "Shuko" plug. Does Denmark really allow this or do the regulations
> require the use of a Danish certified plug? Even if the practice is
allowed,
> it would seem to me that a company should specify that its professionally
> installed equipment must use of a Danish plug in order to minimize
liability
> to the company. What do you think?
>
> Richard Woods
> Sensormatic Electronics
> Tyco International
>
>
> ---
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
>
> Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
>
> To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
>  majord...@ieee.org
> with the single line:
>  unsubscribe emc-pstc
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>  Ron Pickard:  emc-p...@hypercom.com
>  Dave Heald:   emc_p...@symbol.com
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
>  Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
>  Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
>
> Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line.
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
>
>






This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Ron Pickard:  emc-p...@hypercom.com
 Dave Heald:   emc_p...@symbol.com

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line.
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc



Re: Denmark AC outlets

2003-10-22 Thread Ronald R. Wellman

Hello Richard,

I would not want a Class 1 product installed without a protective earth 
ground. I know that we have to continuously deal with installations that do 
not provide earth grounding but that's the way things are. It is best to 
ship products with the appropriate power cord for its intended use, as 
defined by the manufacturer.

As for Denmark, use the Danish plug.

BTW, I had an experience where a test and measurement product's leakage 
current was just around 3.0 ma. Marketing wanted to know if we could use 
the product ungrounded. To convince them, I asked if they wanted to touch 
the ungrounded product's metal enclosure and ground themselves. They declined.

Best regards,
Ron Wellman

At 09:53 AM 10/22/2003 -0400, richwo...@tycoint.com wrote:

>I have heard that Danish regulations allow Type A pluggable Class 1
>equipment to be installed without a ground connection as long as it is not
>located in a wet location. An allowable example would be such equipment that
>uses a "Shuko" plug. Does Denmark really allow this or do the regulations
>require the use of a Danish certified plug? Even if the practice is allowed,
>it would seem to me that a company should specify that its professionally
>installed equipment must use of a Danish plug in order to minimize liability
>to the company. What do you think?
>
>Richard Woods
>Sensormatic Electronics
>Tyco International
>
>
>---
>This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
>Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
>
>Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
>
>To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
>  majord...@ieee.org
>with the single line:
>  unsubscribe emc-pstc
>
>For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>  Ron Pickard:  emc-p...@hypercom.com
>  Dave Heald:   emc_p...@symbol.com
>
>For policy questions, send mail to:
>  Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
>  Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
>
>Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line.
>All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc




This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Ron Pickard:  emc-p...@hypercom.com
 Dave Heald:   emc_p...@symbol.com

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line.
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc