RE: EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS
Alex, CISPR has been trying to raise the upper frequency limit in CISPR 22 for a number of years now. Previous proposals have failed and we are working on a new one. As testing in the US is already required to as high as 40 GHz it is only a matter of time before we finally arrive at a consensus and publish new limits in CISPR 22. My company's labs have already or are in the process of spending many thousands of dollars to meet this requirement, so you're not alone. The current proposal for determining the maximum test frequency differs slightly from the FCC. The FCC algorithm looks like the following: Maximum clock Upper test frequency <108 MHz1 GHz 108 to 500 MHz 2 GHz 500 to 1000 MHz 5 GHz >1 GHz 5 times the maximum clock or 40 GHz, whichever is lower The current proposal in CISPR SC I looks like this: Maximum clock Upper test frequency <108 MHz1 GHz 108 to 400 MHz 2 GHz >400 MHz5 times the maximum clock or 18 GHz, whichever is lower The CISPR proposal will have a lab testing above 2 GHz at a lower frequency, but won't have the upper test frequency to 5 GHz until the clock reached 1 GHz. Clocks above 1 GHz will result in the same upper frequency as the FCC until 3.6 GHz clocks are reached. CISPR 22 will then cut off the test frequency increase while the FCC Rules keep increasing it until an 8 GHz clock rate is reached. Removal of the 3 meter test distance option is just that - a rumor. No basis in fact. An attempt to codify 3 meter limits in CISPR 22 failed, but removal of the note allowing testing at distances less than 10 meters for small class B devices is not on the table. For that matter, the limits above 1 GHz are specified at 3 meters, just as they are for class B devices in the FCC Rules. Same limits as in the FCC Rules. Hope this helps. Ghery Pettit Intel -Original Message- From: Alex McNeil [mailto:alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:56 AM To: 'Pettit, Ghery' Cc: 'Gordon,Ian'; 'IEEE EMC & SAFETY PSTC' Subject: RE: EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS Hi Ghery, I knew some day that the CISPR 22 (EN55022) would up the frequency range. However, it is not good news for us guys that invested heavily in a pre-complince emissions site (good news for test equipment manufacturers!) some years back. Especially with our receivers, spectrum analyzers, antenna's etc. I could not purchase >2Ghz test equipment due to financial restrictions. Anyhow, do you envisage that you will follow the FCC method of determining what upper frequency a product is tested to i.e. highest clock freq X 15th harmonic or something similar? I think this is very important and I am sure most on this forum would support this. I also heard a rumour that the 3m option in EN55022 Class B may be removed? Again, I would not want this to happen, but hopefully it is only a rumour! Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 4:22 PM To: 'Gordon,Ian'; 'IEEE EMC & SAFETY PSTC' Subject: RE: EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS Ian, Work is progressing in CISPR SC I to amend CISPR 22 to have limits to as high as 18 GHz. This will not happen overnight, however. A committee draft (CD) document is out for comment within the national committees. I expect that it will be a hot topic of discussion at the SC I meetings in Christchurch, New Zealand in late September. From that meeting there will likely be a committee draft for vote (CDV) that will come out for a 5 month voting period. If it passes, we will be discussing the comments at the SC I meeting in South Korea next year. After than, the final draft international standard (FDIS) document will go out for vote (another 5 month period). If that passes, the changes will be implemented in the next amendment or full edition of CISPR 22. Confused? The bottom line is that, assuming everything goes smoothly for the current proposal (and we've already voted down one FDIS), 2004 is the earliest that a change to CISPR 22 could be published. Then you would be looking at some time before CENELEC put out their new version of EN 55022:1998 and then a 2 year transition period would start. 2006 at the earliest. There are no proposals to increase the frequency range for radiated immunity tests in CISPR 24 at this time. Keep in mind that these standards apply to ITE. They do not apply to other product families. Hope this helps. Keep in mind that for the U.S. you may already have to test radiated emissions to as high as 40 GHz, depending upon the maximum clock speed in your product. CISPR is playing catch-up in this area. Gh
RE: EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS
Hi Ghery, I knew some day that the CISPR 22 (EN55022) would up the frequency range. However, it is not good news for us guys that invested heavily in a pre-complince emissions site (good news for test equipment manufacturers!) some years back. Especially with our receivers, spectrum analyzers, antenna's etc. I could not purchase >2Ghz test equipment due to financial restrictions. Anyhow, do you envisage that you will follow the FCC method of determining what upper frequency a product is tested to i.e. highest clock freq X 15th harmonic or something similar? I think this is very important and I am sure most on this forum would support this. I also heard a rumour that the 3m option in EN55022 Class B may be removed? Again, I would not want this to happen, but hopefully it is only a rumour! Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 4:22 PM To: 'Gordon,Ian'; 'IEEE EMC & SAFETY PSTC' Subject: RE: EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS Ian, Work is progressing in CISPR SC I to amend CISPR 22 to have limits to as high as 18 GHz. This will not happen overnight, however. A committee draft (CD) document is out for comment within the national committees. I expect that it will be a hot topic of discussion at the SC I meetings in Christchurch, New Zealand in late September. From that meeting there will likely be a committee draft for vote (CDV) that will come out for a 5 month voting period. If it passes, we will be discussing the comments at the SC I meeting in South Korea next year. After than, the final draft international standard (FDIS) document will go out for vote (another 5 month period). If that passes, the changes will be implemented in the next amendment or full edition of CISPR 22. Confused? The bottom line is that, assuming everything goes smoothly for the current proposal (and we've already voted down one FDIS), 2004 is the earliest that a change to CISPR 22 could be published. Then you would be looking at some time before CENELEC put out their new version of EN 55022:1998 and then a 2 year transition period would start. 2006 at the earliest. There are no proposals to increase the frequency range for radiated immunity tests in CISPR 24 at this time. Keep in mind that these standards apply to ITE. They do not apply to other product families. Hope this helps. Keep in mind that for the U.S. you may already have to test radiated emissions to as high as 40 GHz, depending upon the maximum clock speed in your product. CISPR is playing catch-up in this area. Ghery Pettit Intel Member, CISPR SC I WG2, WG3 and WG4 -Original Message- From: Gordon,Ian [mailto:ian.gor...@edwards.boc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:14 AM To: 'IEEE EMC & SAFETY PSTC' Subject: EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS I was recently told that the upper limit for radiated emission/immunity testing of non-telecomm equipment was to be raised to 3GHz. Can anyone confirm this and if so, are there plans to amend the European generic standards? Thanks Ian Gordon _ This message has been checked for all known viruses by UUNET delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further information visit http://www.uk.uu.net/products/security/virus/ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Al
RE: EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS
You are aware, I presume, that higher limits already exist in the US. Its clock rate deterministic. I don't have the section number in front of me, but it has been published for quite some time in the US. I couldn't tell from your question whether or not you were CISPR concentric or FCC Gary -Original Message- From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 8:22 AM To: 'Gordon,Ian'; 'IEEE EMC & SAFETY PSTC' Subject: RE: EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS Ian, Work is progressing in CISPR SC I to amend CISPR 22 to have limits to as high as 18 GHz. This will not happen overnight, however. A committee draft (CD) document is out for comment within the national committees. I expect that it will be a hot topic of discussion at the SC I meetings in Christchurch, New Zealand in late September. From that meeting there will likely be a committee draft for vote (CDV) that will come out for a 5 month voting period. If it passes, we will be discussing the comments at the SC I meeting in South Korea next year. After than, the final draft international standard (FDIS) document will go out for vote (another 5 month period). If that passes, the changes will be implemented in the next amendment or full edition of CISPR 22. Confused? The bottom line is that, assuming everything goes smoothly for the current proposal (and we've already voted down one FDIS), 2004 is the earliest that a change to CISPR 22 could be published. Then you would be looking at some time before CENELEC put out their new version of EN 55022:1998 and then a 2 year transition period would start. 2006 at the earliest. There are no proposals to increase the frequency range for radiated immunity tests in CISPR 24 at this time. Keep in mind that these standards apply to ITE. They do not apply to other product families. Hope this helps. Keep in mind that for the U.S. you may already have to test radiated emissions to as high as 40 GHz, depending upon the maximum clock speed in your product. CISPR is playing catch-up in this area. Ghery Pettit Intel Member, CISPR SC I WG2, WG3 and WG4 -Original Message- From: Gordon,Ian [mailto:ian.gor...@edwards.boc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:14 AM To: 'IEEE EMC & SAFETY PSTC' Subject: EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS I was recently told that the upper limit for radiated emission/immunity testing of non-telecomm equipment was to be raised to 3GHz. Can anyone confirm this and if so, are there plans to amend the European generic standards? Thanks Ian Gordon _ This message has been checked for all known viruses by UUNET delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further information visit http://www.uk.uu.net/products/security/virus/ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe.
RE: EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS
Ian, Work is progressing in CISPR SC I to amend CISPR 22 to have limits to as high as 18 GHz. This will not happen overnight, however. A committee draft (CD) document is out for comment within the national committees. I expect that it will be a hot topic of discussion at the SC I meetings in Christchurch, New Zealand in late September. From that meeting there will likely be a committee draft for vote (CDV) that will come out for a 5 month voting period. If it passes, we will be discussing the comments at the SC I meeting in South Korea next year. After than, the final draft international standard (FDIS) document will go out for vote (another 5 month period). If that passes, the changes will be implemented in the next amendment or full edition of CISPR 22. Confused? The bottom line is that, assuming everything goes smoothly for the current proposal (and we've already voted down one FDIS), 2004 is the earliest that a change to CISPR 22 could be published. Then you would be looking at some time before CENELEC put out their new version of EN 55022:1998 and then a 2 year transition period would start. 2006 at the earliest. There are no proposals to increase the frequency range for radiated immunity tests in CISPR 24 at this time. Keep in mind that these standards apply to ITE. They do not apply to other product families. Hope this helps. Keep in mind that for the U.S. you may already have to test radiated emissions to as high as 40 GHz, depending upon the maximum clock speed in your product. CISPR is playing catch-up in this area. Ghery Pettit Intel Member, CISPR SC I WG2, WG3 and WG4 -Original Message- From: Gordon,Ian [mailto:ian.gor...@edwards.boc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:14 AM To: 'IEEE EMC & SAFETY PSTC' Subject: EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS I was recently told that the upper limit for radiated emission/immunity testing of non-telecomm equipment was to be raised to 3GHz. Can anyone confirm this and if so, are there plans to amend the European generic standards? Thanks Ian Gordon _ This message has been checked for all known viruses by UUNET delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further information visit http://www.uk.uu.net/products/security/virus/ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
