RE: Emissions "quick test"
Ed Price wrote: >> BTW, audio provides a dramatic lab effect and should always be used during executive tours of your lab. << Back in '91 or so, at a large electronics retailer's R&D operation, I was doing a prescan of an EUT with a CD-player/CD-ROM drive in it. Testing with a bunch of corporate bigwigs present, I treated them to the sound of a music CD coming out of the spectrum analyzer's speaker. And yes, it was radiated from headphones plugged into the drive's audio jack. "Audio needs no filtering," you know. Ha! Good example of TEMPEST, too. Cortland --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Re: Emissions "quick test"
Lisa, On the expensive end, Noise-Ken has been at Symposia (which I can't afford this year) with a sniffer. It apparently uses four or five broadly tuned peak detectors and gives a bar-graph display for each band as its sensor is brought near the EUT. But, like others, I've found that a spectrum analyzer set on a broad sweep through the frequencies of interest works quite well, and it does nor have to be up-to-date, either. You can get an 8590 (for example) for relatively little, now, or a 7L13 and 7000 series mainframe, or a 141T with plug ins. Folks holding them are selling off excess gear now for badly needed funds. As for sensors, you do not need to spend money calibrating them, and this means you don' have to pay a lot for having them made. You can use throwaways. For E-fields, a small piece of printed circuit board, or even just the coax center conductor wire, with a 50 ohm load across it, is sufficiently sensitive to find leaks, and ignore ambients and lower-level emissions. Even a scope probe works for this, but the tip needs to be insulated so you don't mess up results by scraping it across metal. For H-fields, you can wind a one-turn shielded loop by turning a coax back on itself, connecting the center conductor to the shield. I've made loops as small as 2mm across for following emissions on traces; bigger ones are useful for bigger problems. For current, you DO have a current probe - but even if you don't, a snap-on EMI bead with a one turn secondary connected to a piece of coax (the same shielded loop technique also works here) is a good, broadband sniffer for wires. And finally, if you know the frequencies of interest, you can now get pocket receivers which themselves are wonderful sniffers. A Vertex-Standard (formerly Yaesu) VR500 receiver, .1-1300 MHz (less cellular and 620-624) even has a spectrum occupancy function -- I can't quite call it a spectrum analyzer -- good for plus and minus 3 MHz. A lesser Yaesu radio, the VR120, with no such function, covering .5 to 1300 (with MORE unfortunate omissions of coverage), is presently on sale at Ham Radio and scanner radio stores for $99. (Receivers with NO omissions in coverage may be obtained from Canada and Europe.) Maybe next year I'll present a paper on using these erstwhile toys for serious EMI work. The economy willing! Good luck, Cortland --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
RE: Emissions "quick test"
>-Original Message- >From: Gert Gremmen [mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl] >Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 1:06 PM >To: Bill Morse; 'Cortland Richmond'; ieee pstc list >Subject: RE: Emissions "quick test" > > > >The technique of temperature variation is that >sensible, that heating up the *enclosure* of >a small box by hand !!! will be easily audible , if >the beat is down to only a 100 hz. >Just tapping on the pcb will also be audible, not >to let alone the effect of a freezing spray ! >But you definitely need a BFO equipped (measuring) receiver. >A spectrum analyser is of no use here (grin). >This really is the fastest way of finding out the real >source of a interfering spectral line. > >Note also that the difference between data/adress lines >and R/W CE and Clcok emissions can easily be distinguished >by the notable AM modulation (rythme) and using the speaker of >your receiver it's easy to distinguish between >foreign sources, (radio tv amateur cellular) and even other >equipments (PC) in the neighbourhood. >I even can distinguish between multiple processors on a large system. >If your supply is not well stabilized, you will even hear the >100 (120) Hz hum on your spectral lines ! > >This technique in combination with >your own ears is truly sensitive in a quality point >of view: I have proposed in the past to use a measuring receiver >for debugging purposes: a mal functioning microprocessor >will definitely produce another sound then it's fully >functioning brothers/sisters. You may astonish your >collegues by fault debugging through walls !!! ;<)) > >Automated measuring systems are of no use outside >the shielded room for exactly the lack of distinction >between spectral lines, and those who work with >a spectrum analyser do not know what they are missing... > > >Gert Gremmen >ce-test, qualified testing SNIP Some spectrum analyzers have a built-in speaker, and you can use this feature to monitor an emission. Although you may not get quite the clarity that a BFO can provide, you can usually detect a frequency shift by tuning to the slope of the emission and listening to the relative noise. If the emission shifts away from your frequency, then you will hear more background noise. If the emission shifts toward your frequency, you will hear either a quieting, or the modulation on the emission. For those of you who do not have a built-in speaker, just connect a cheap audio amplifier and speaker to the video output of your analyzer. BTW, audio provides a dramatic lab effect and should always be used during executive tours of your lab. Regards, Ed Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military & Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
RE: Emissions "quick test"
I just might have to try it and add it to the repertoire of troubleshooting techniques. -Original Message- From: Gert Gremmen [mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl] Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 1:06 PM To: Bill Morse; 'Cortland Richmond'; ieee pstc list Subject: RE: Emissions "quick test" The technique of temperature variation is that sensible, that heating up the *enclosure* of a small box by hand !!! will be easily audible , if the beat is down to only a 100 hz. Just tapping on the pcb will also be audible, not to let alone the effect of a freezing spray ! But you definitely need a BFO equipped (measuring) receiver. A spectrum analyser is of no use here (grin). This really is the fastest way of finding out the real source of a interfering spectral line. Note also that the difference between data/adress lines and R/W CE and Clcok emissions can easily be distinguished by the notable AM modulation (rythme) and using the speaker of your receiver it's easy to distinguish between foreign sources, (radio tv amateur cellular) and even other equipments (PC) in the neighbourhood. I even can distinguish between multiple processors on a large system. If your supply is not well stabilized, you will even hear the 100 (120) Hz hum on your spectral lines ! This technique in combination with your own ears is truly sensitive in a quality point of view: I have proposed in the past to use a measuring receiver for debugging purposes: a mal functioning microprocessor will definitely produce another sound then it's fully functioning brothers/sisters. You may astonish your collegues by fault debugging through walls !!! ;<)) Automated measuring systems are of no use outside the shielded room for exactly the lack of distinction between spectral lines, and those who work with a spectrum analyser do not know what they are missing... Gert Gremmen ce-test, qualified testing Gert Gremmen ce-test qualified testing. -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Bill Morse Sent: donderdag 22 augustus 2002 19:01 To: 'Cortland Richmond'; Bill Morse; ieee pstc list Subject: RE: Emissions "quick test" Yep, they're many ways of doing it. Heating the crystals and watching the frequency of interest for variation, disabling the clocks one at a time, come to mind. They all have their uses and limitations. -Original Message- From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:72146@compuserve.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 2:37 PM To: Bill Morse; ieee pstc list Subject:RE: Emissions "quick test" Just a note about telling clocks apart... unless they're phase locked (sometimes even then) a receiver with a BFO can let you distinguish from among clocks only 100's of Hz apart. Sometimes it can let you tell which of several clocks is slower to lock as well, as you can hear the varying tone that makes coming into lock with the reference. Cortland --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail
RE: Emissions "quick test"
The technique of temperature variation is that sensible, that heating up the *enclosure* of a small box by hand !!! will be easily audible , if the beat is down to only a 100 hz. Just tapping on the pcb will also be audible, not to let alone the effect of a freezing spray ! But you definitely need a BFO equipped (measuring) receiver. A spectrum analyser is of no use here (grin). This really is the fastest way of finding out the real source of a interfering spectral line. Note also that the difference between data/adress lines and R/W CE and Clcok emissions can easily be distinguished by the notable AM modulation (rythme) and using the speaker of your receiver it's easy to distinguish between foreign sources, (radio tv amateur cellular) and even other equipments (PC) in the neighbourhood. I even can distinguish between multiple processors on a large system. If your supply is not well stabilized, you will even hear the 100 (120) Hz hum on your spectral lines ! This technique in combination with your own ears is truly sensitive in a quality point of view: I have proposed in the past to use a measuring receiver for debugging purposes: a mal functioning microprocessor will definitely produce another sound then it's fully functioning brothers/sisters. You may astonish your collegues by fault debugging through walls !!! ;<)) Automated measuring systems are of no use outside the shielded room for exactly the lack of distinction between spectral lines, and those who work with a spectrum analyser do not know what they are missing... Gert Gremmen ce-test, qualified testing Gert Gremmen ce-test qualified testing. -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Bill Morse Sent: donderdag 22 augustus 2002 19:01 To: 'Cortland Richmond'; Bill Morse; ieee pstc list Subject: RE: Emissions "quick test" Yep, they're many ways of doing it. Heating the crystals and watching the frequency of interest for variation, disabling the clocks one at a time, come to mind. They all have their uses and limitations. -Original Message- From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:72146@compuserve.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 2:37 PM To: Bill Morse; ieee pstc list Subject:RE: Emissions "quick test" Just a note about telling clocks apart... unless they're phase locked (sometimes even then) a receiver with a BFO can let you distinguish from among clocks only 100's of Hz apart. Sometimes it can let you tell which of several clocks is slower to lock as well, as you can hear the varying tone that makes coming into lock with the reference. Cortland --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
RE: Emissions "quick test"
Yep, they're many ways of doing it. Heating the crystals and watching the frequency of interest for variation, disabling the clocks one at a time, come to mind. They all have their uses and limitations. -Original Message- From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:72146@compuserve.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 2:37 PM To: Bill Morse; ieee pstc list Subject: RE: Emissions "quick test" Just a note about telling clocks apart... unless they're phase locked (sometimes even then) a receiver with a BFO can let you distinguish from among clocks only 100's of Hz apart. Sometimes it can let you tell which of several clocks is slower to lock as well, as you can hear the varying tone that makes coming into lock with the reference. Cortland --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
RE: Emissions "quick test"
Just a note about telling clocks apart... unless they're phase locked (sometimes even then) a receiver with a BFO can let you distinguish from among clocks only 100's of Hz apart. Sometimes it can let you tell which of several clocks is slower to lock as well, as you can hear the varying tone that makes coming into lock with the reference. Cortland --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Re: Emissions "quick test"
Joe Martin wrote: >> Credence Technologies manufactures a probe with a built in low noise amplifier<< Ohmygosh, yes. How could I have forgotten THEM! An untuned probe, with output to a scope or analyzer, too. Neat tool. I spent a fun half hour or so talking to their very bright son last year about resonance. He had been bragging about his academic grade point average. (grin) Cortland --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
RE: Emissions "quick test"
Every person working in the EMC field has their own techniques when dealing will emissions issues. Mostly based on past experiences, product type, what tools they have handy or can afford plus the political atmosphere where they work. I am no exception, part of my list of tools include: EMCO 3142B antenna Fischer Custom Communications current clamp F-130B frequency range 100kHz - 1GHz. EMCO 7405 Probe set And a CASSPER "ETS Model 2000 Virtual Chamber" Lots of small hand built probes For me the political atmosphere is time to market and then the cost of the fix, so any tool that speeds up troubleshooting and gives more options is easy to justify. The CASSPER system is mostly billed as an ambient cancellation system, which it does fairly well "up to 30dB" for external outside the building noise. For internal noise in the room/building that you are using it in it has no effect. I vary seldom use this part of the system. Personally I think they are not advertising correctly. The source localization capabilities of the unit are amazing. For reasons unknown the design engineers where I work with like using 4MHz, 12MHz and 24MHz clocks to run the different processors in our systems; talk about stack-up. I think they're punishing me for transgressions in a past life. Our typical test methodology for testing the EUT is to take it to our favorite 10m chamber if it fails, "it does happen once and awhile", we take it back to our lab and troubleshoot it. I can go from looking at the signal with the CASSPER with the 3142B antenna on channel 1 and current clamp on channel 2 using the source localization mode and find the radiating element, "typically a cable". Then switching the current clamp, now clamped on the radiating element to channel 1 and a near field probe on channel 2 I can find the trace and driver circuit which is the source of the emissions. Total time under 10 minutes usually. Solutions about what to do about it sometimes take a bit longer, but now I know the driver, path and radiating element. I can now choose how to attack the issue to bring product into compliance; driver, path or radiating element. I once built a test bed with dithering clocks operating at 24MHz then mixed them together with one of the clock signals having a 10dB attenuator in line with it. The system used an inductively coupled loop antenna to guarantee that it would radiate. Even with the same percentage of dithering I could tell the dithering clocks apart. Like any other tool it has its quirks and limitations that have to be learned but it does the job. It is not however inexpensive. William Morse NCE -Original Message- From: lisa_cef...@mksinst.com [mailto:lisa_cef...@mksinst.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 1:35 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:Emissions "quick test" Hi all, Does anyone know of a " down- and- dirty" , inexpensive method or equipment for sniffing out emissions issues? I've used a Spectrum Analyzer in the past with a series of different probes, but that tends to be costly. Also, Is there a "universal" probe kit out there? Thank you in advance. Lisa Lisa A. Cefalo, CRE Manager, Reliability and Design Services MKS Instruments 6 Shattuck Road Andover, MA 01810 (978)-975-2350 X 5669 lisa_cef...@mksinst.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Re: Emissions "quick test"
Lisa, If you are just interested in "sniffing" out emissions, Credence Technologies manufactures a probe with a built in low noise amplifier. You can use this probe without a spectrum analyzer to "sniff" out emissions. However, unless you connect the probe to a spectrum analyzer, you can not determine emission levels. If you are interested, take a look at their website. http://www.credencetech.com/scanem.html Regards Joe Martin lisa_cef...@mksinst.com Sent by: To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org owner-emc-pstc@majordomcc: o.ieee.org Subject: Emissions "quick test" 08/20/2002 01:34 PM Please respond to Lisa_Cefalo Hi all, Does anyone know of a " down- and- dirty" , inexpensive method or equipment for sniffing out emissions issues? I've used a Spectrum Analyzer in the past with a series of different probes, but that tends to be costly. Also, Is there a "universal" probe kit out there? Thank you in advance. Lisa Lisa A. Cefalo, CRE Manager, Reliability and Design Services MKS Instruments 6 Shattuck Road Andover, MA 01810 (978)-975-2350 X 5669 lisa_cef...@mksinst.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
RE: Emissions "quick test"
Lisa, At minimum you really should have a spectrum analyzer, but that's my opinion. For a good 'homemade' probe try Doug Smith's web site. http://emcesd.com/ Scroll down the page. Good luck. John A. Juhasz GE Interlogix Fiber Options Div. Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: lisa_cef...@mksinst.com [mailto:lisa_cef...@mksinst.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 4:35 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Emissions "quick test" Hi all, Does anyone know of a " down- and- dirty" , inexpensive method or equipment for sniffing out emissions issues? I've used a Spectrum Analyzer in the past with a series of different probes, but that tends to be costly. Also, Is there a "universal" probe kit out there? Thank you in advance. Lisa Lisa A. Cefalo, CRE Manager, Reliability and Design Services MKS Instruments 6 Shattuck Road Andover, MA 01810 (978)-975-2350 X 5669 lisa_cef...@mksinst.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Re: Emissions "quick test"
Try Laplace www.laplace.co.uk Cheers Alan E Hutley EMC Compliance Journal www.compliance-club.com - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 9:34 PM Subject: Emissions "quick test" > > Hi all, > > Does anyone know of a " down- and- dirty" , inexpensive method or equipment > for sniffing out emissions issues? I've used a Spectrum Analyzer in the > past with a series of different probes, but that tends to be costly. Also, > Is there a "universal" probe kit out there? > > Thank you in advance. > > Lisa > > Lisa A. Cefalo, CRE > Manager, Reliability and Design Services > MKS Instruments > 6 Shattuck Road > Andover, MA 01810 > (978)-975-2350 X 5669 > lisa_cef...@mksinst.com > > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com > Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ > Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Re: Emissions "quick test"
Lisa, Com Power sells complete pre-compliance system with an inexpensive spectrum analyzer, pre-amplifier, and a set of three probes. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain lisa_cef...@mksinst.co m To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordoSubject: Emissions "quick test" mo.ieee.org 08/20/2002 01:34 PM Please respond to Lisa_Cefalo Hi all, Does anyone know of a " down- and- dirty" , inexpensive method or equipment for sniffing out emissions issues? I've used a Spectrum Analyzer in the past with a series of different probes, but that tends to be costly. Also, Is there a "universal" probe kit out there? Thank you in advance. Lisa Lisa A. Cefalo, CRE Manager, Reliability and Design Services MKS Instruments 6 Shattuck Road Andover, MA 01810 (978)-975-2350 X 5669 lisa_cef...@mksinst.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Re: Emissions "quick test"
I have used a little portable transistor radio for system sniffing of a system with low level freqs and with already knowing the problem freqs. Regards, Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
RE: Emissions "quick test"
>-Original Message- >From: lisa_cef...@mksinst.com [mailto:lisa_cef...@mksinst.com] >Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 1:35 PM >To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org >Subject: Emissions "quick test" > > > >Hi all, > >Does anyone know of a " down- and- dirty" , inexpensive method >or equipment >for sniffing out emissions issues? I've used a Spectrum >Analyzer in the >past with a series of different probes, but that tends to be >costly. Also, >Is there a "universal" probe kit out there? > >Thank you in advance. > >Lisa > >Lisa A. Cefalo, CRE >Manager, Reliability and Design Services >MKS Instruments >6 Shattuck Road >Andover, MA 01810 >(978)-975-2350 X 5669 >lisa_cef...@mksinst.com > > Lisa: You can make a fairly universal probe by winding three turns of stiff wire around your little finger. Remove finger and solder the coil to the end of female/female BNC connector. Connect probe to a spectrum analyzer and start probing. You can make another cheap probe by stripping about an inch of the outer conductor off the end of a piece of RG-223 coax. The dielectric will support the small stub of center conductor, and you get a nice, low sensitivity probe that you can drag over ribbon cable wires or board traces. A spectrum analyzer is about the minimum ticket needed for this ride. You could use a cheap AM radio, or a scanner, or a communications receiver, but interpreting the results is time consuming. You could use an analog oscilloscope for some probing, but you could get a low-end spectrum analyzer for the cost of a decent oscilloscope. You can buy an old spectrum analyzer, typically something like an HP-141/8552/8553 for well under $1000; just watch eBay for a couple of weeks. If you are extremely determined to avoid buying a spectrum analyzer, you might be interested in a classic Ham Radio project, called the Poor Man's Spectrum Analyzer. This project allowed you to build a spectrum analyzer using old television tuners, and is a testament to what can be accomplished with unlimited labor applied to analog junk. Regards, Ed Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military & Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Re: Emissions "quick test"
EMCO/ETS makes a probe kit with a preamp for under $1000. Several probes, E- and H-field. Electro-metrics makes the same kind of kit, but without the pre-amp, per my recollection. I think Com-power might also do this kind of thing, and be the low price vendor as well. If the EUT is noisy and you are in very close, you might be able to see something on an oscilloscope, but clearly it will a low-passed time domain waveform which you cannot correlate well with measured OATS data. There are pre-compliance analyzers on the market for well under $5 K these days. on 8/20/02 3:34 PM, lisa_cef...@mksinst.com at lisa_cef...@mksinst.com wrote: > > Hi all, > > Does anyone know of a " down- and- dirty" , inexpensive method or equipment > for sniffing out emissions issues? I've used a Spectrum Analyzer in the > past with a series of different probes, but that tends to be costly. Also, > Is there a "universal" probe kit out there? > > Thank you in advance. > > Lisa > > Lisa A. Cefalo, CRE > Manager, Reliability and Design Services > MKS Instruments > 6 Shattuck Road > Andover, MA 01810 > (978)-975-2350 X 5669 > lisa_cef...@mksinst.com > > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com > Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ > Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" > -- Ken Javor EMC Compliance Huntsville, Alabama 256/650-5261 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
