RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
That reminds me of Apple. I'm still trying to figure how if they have some transparent coating on the IMAC's. It's essentially a computer installed inside colored plastic enclosure. Those guys are good but I'm impressed if they are doing it without some shielding, other than just around the CRT yoke. Gary -Original Message- From: david_ster...@ademco.com [mailto:david_ster...@ademco.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 8:43 AM To: keh...@cox.net; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? Plexiglas cases are great for air-flow studies and trade show demos. It would be presumptive indeed to affix an FCC DofC logo to a chassis w/o motherboard. I suspect many other pstc members have located television sets near a PC operating with cover removed and experienced only minor interference if any. Also HCW and others make TV interface boards for PC's where modulated video is routed into the chassis. David -Original Message- From: Kyle Ehler [mailto:keh...@cox.net] Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:06 PM To: Wagner, John P (John); michael.sundst...@nokia.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; George Stults Subject: Re: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? I dont recall seeing a DoC on any of the $28 cases I have purchased for my home built pc's. It is remarkable that the ATX power supplies actually have UL/TUV many of these cases include. Please note that these cases do NOT provide sufficient containment to meet class A (much less class B) without intelligent treatment. It is indeed a big loophole, albeit for a small crowd. IMHE, purchasing a new pc with warranty costs only a little more than a self assembled pc from a heap of parts. This would seem to appeal only to the hobbyist (new age student?) and constitute a very small population. Kyle Ehler (forced retiree - LSI Logic) - Original Message - From: Wagner, <mailto:johnwag...@avaya.com> John P (John) To: michael.sundst...@nokia.com ; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org ; George Stults <mailto:george.stu...@watchguard.com> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:51 PM Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? The current FCC rules are pretty clear. For "systems" assembled from components, the "system" considered compliant if assembled from compliant components; namely, enclosures, motherboards, power supplies. The peripheral rules also apply. So, if this case or enclosure has been tested and shown to be compliant when used as a component for a system, then all is ok. To be legal, the case should have an FCC DoC. John P. Wagner
RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
Plexiglas cases are great for air-flow studies and trade show demos. It would be presumptive indeed to affix an FCC DofC logo to a chassis w/o motherboard. I suspect many other pstc members have located television sets near a PC operating with cover removed and experienced only minor interference if any. Also HCW and others make TV interface boards for PC's where modulated video is routed into the chassis. David -Original Message- From: Kyle Ehler [mailto:keh...@cox.net] Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:06 PM To: Wagner, John P (John); michael.sundst...@nokia.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; George Stults Subject: Re: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? I dont recall seeing a DoC on any of the $28 cases I have purchased for my home built pc's. It is remarkable that the ATX power supplies actually have UL/TUV many of these cases include. Please note that these cases do NOT provide sufficient containment to meet class A (much less class B) without intelligent treatment. It is indeed a big loophole, albeit for a small crowd. IMHE, purchasing a new pc with warranty costs only a little more than a self assembled pc from a heap of parts. This would seem to appeal only to the hobbyist (new age student?) and constitute a very small population. Kyle Ehler (forced retiree - LSI Logic) - Original Message - From: Wagner, <mailto:johnwag...@avaya.com> John P (John) To: michael.sundst...@nokia.com <mailto:michael.sundst...@nokia.com> ; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org> ; George Stults <mailto:george.stu...@watchguard.com> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:51 PM Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? The current FCC rules are pretty clear. For "systems" assembled from components, the "system" considered compliant if assembled from compliant components; namely, enclosures, motherboards, power supplies. The peripheral rules also apply. So, if this case or enclosure has been tested and shown to be compliant when used as a component for a system, then all is ok. To be legal, the case should have an FCC DoC. John P. Wagner
RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?The problem here is
that the DoC method is based on Class B levels for personal computers and
peripherals, Class A is categorized under the FCC rules as Verification, not
Declaration of Conformity. So, the legal problem would be that the wrong
limits were applied.
Jeff
-Original Message-
From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of George Stults
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 11:38 AM
To: 'Wagner, John P (John)'; michael.sundst...@nokia.com;
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
Okay then, I think I see the point. Supposing for the moment that an FCC
DoC does exist for the modified case, and that it self declares Class A, and
they have test results to back it up, Then, the 'legal' problem would lie
with the assertion that its being sold at retail outlets for home use.
Except of course the manufacturer would say that its not being sold for that
purpose, and the retail outlet doesn't know the difference. Ignorance is
bli$$.
George Stults
-Original Message-
From: Wagner, John P (John) [mailto:johnwag...@avaya.com]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 10:52 AM
To: michael.sundst...@nokia.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; George
Stults
Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
Importance: High
The current FCC rules are pretty clear. For "systems" assembled from
components, the "system" considered compliant if assembled from compliant
components; namely, enclosures, motherboards, power supplies. The
peripheral rules also apply. So, if this case or enclosure has been tested
and shown to be compliant when used as a component for a system, then all is
ok. To be legal, the case should have an FCC DoC.
John P. Wagner
Regulatory Compliance & Mandatory Standards
AVAYA Strategic Standards.
1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16
Westminster, CO 80234-2726
Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241
johnwag...@avaya.com
--
From: George Stults[SMTP:george.stu...@watchguard.com]
Reply To: George Stults
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 9:56 AM
To: 'michael.sundst...@nokia.com'; 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org'
Subject:Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
The cases are being sold as components, although I am sure that any of
the
stores I visited would sell me an assembled system with the modified
plastic-window-style-cases. There is no understanding of emission
requirements at the level of the retail outlet.
Surely this situation has come up before, where there were easily
assembled
systems from commercially available components sold for the purpose,
that
would nevertheless be non-compliant with a high degree of probability.
How
was it handled in the past? What reasoning can be applied to justify
the
proposition that the plastic-window-style-cases cannot be legally
sold?
George Stults
-Original Message-
From: michael.sundst...@nokia.com [mailto:michael.sundst...@nokia.com]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:58 AM
To: jklin...@celectronics.com; George Stults;
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
If they are selling these PC's out of a store, how can they be
homebuilt?
Michael Sundstrom
NOKIA
TCC Dallas / EMC
ofc: (972) 374-1462
cell: (817) 917-5021
amateur call: KB5UKT
-Original Message-
From: ext Jeff Klinger [mailto:jklin...@celectronics.com]
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 5:39 PM
To: George Stults; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
George,
The method for testing motherboards is intended to be combined with
the DoC
method of declaring compliance based on individual testing of the
components
that comprise the full computer system, i.e. Assembled from tested
components. The final computer system is still required to meet the
FCC
Class B limit just as if it was tested, even though it was not. I
suppose
that a small (extremely small) chance exists that the final system
could
pass if tested.
The loophole here may be the "Home-Built devices" clause, Title 47
part
15.23. Where the device is not marketed or constructed from a kit.
This
allows for five or less devices built for personal use without the
need for
compliance testing (FCC only).
Jeff Klinger
Director EMC Engineering
Compatible Electronics, Inc.
Ph: 714-579-0500 Fx: 714-528-8984
http://www.celectronics.com
NARTE Certified ATL-0180-
RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
Here are a couple of links that show the cases in question. One of the stores I found them at is a national chain with 43 stores from California to Ohio. They appear to be widespread and therefore, its reasonable to expect that a lot of them will get built. http://www.storefinity.com/go/silverpcscom/ http://www.ocsystem.com/skyhaw43almi.html It will be interesting to see if in fact they do cause problems. I suspect that Analog cell phone service might well be affected whereas devices using any type of spread spectrum such as digital cell phones and digital mobile phones will probably not be susceptible since the noise should be mostly narrowband clocks. I appreciate the responses I recieved concerning my question. Its been most educational. Best Regards, George Stults -Original Message- From: Jeff Klinger [mailto:jklin...@celectronics.com] Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 10:44 AM To: michael.sundst...@nokia.com; jklin...@celectronics.com; George Stults; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? With the "Home-Built" issue, I was keying on the "instructions to build available on the internet" part, obviously if the systems are offered or marketed for sale whole, or in kit form, then as far as the FCC rules are concerned, it's not considered homebuilt. This has been an issue for as long as I can recall, PC systems, built and sold through mom-and-pop stores, usually slide when it comes to the FCC rules. It's just too difficult for the FCC to pursue each and every issue. I can't speak for the FCC, but my understanding is that the FCC is complaint driven, so if this becomes a problem, someone possibly will complain, and the FCC will get involved, depending on the severity of the problem. Now, if this becomes a major craze and everyone is buying these systems, then the exposure to any problems that exist is far greater, and the probability of the FCC putting a stop to it is far greater. The "short-and-simple" of it is that it is not legal to sell these systems unless the FCC rules have been applied. The more complex question would then be, "What can, and or should, be done about it"? And to make this response even longer and more complex, let me ask one more question; "How many people build or modify their own systems at home or in the office, and how many problems are actually caused by these systems"? Jeff -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of michael.sundst...@nokia.com Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:58 AM To: jklin...@celectronics.com; george.stu...@watchguard.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? If they are selling these PC's out of a store, how can they be homebuilt? Michael Sundstrom NOKIA TCC Dallas / EMC ofc: (972) 374-1462 cell: (817) 917-5021 amateur call: KB5UKT -Original Message- From: ext Jeff Klinger [mailto:jklin...@celectronics.com] Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 5:39 PM To: George Stults; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? George, The method for testing motherboards is intended to be combined with the DoC method of declaring compliance based on individual testing of the components that comprise the full computer system, i.e. Assembled from tested components. The final computer system is still required to meet the FCC Class B limit just as if it was tested, even though it was not. I suppose that a small (extremely small) chance exists that the final system could pass if tested. The loophole here may be the "Home-Built devices" clause, Title 47 part 15.23. Where the device is not marketed or constructed from a kit. This allows for five or less devices built for personal use without the need for compliance testing (FCC only). Jeff Klinger Director EMC Engineering Compatible Electronics, Inc. Ph: 714-579-0500 Fx: 714-528-8984 http://www.celectronics.com NARTE Certified ATL-0180-E -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of George Stults Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 3:11 PM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? Hi Folks, I just walked into three local computer stores (west coast, USA) and found that desktop computers have become art forms. There are computer cases for sale with large plexiglass windows about (10in x12in), some with a fan in the middle of the plexiglass panel, and inside the case, there is a 12 inch long neon lamp, powered from the ATX power supply just like any installable drive. Through the window, one can see the motherboard, CPU heatsink, etc, all illuminated by the Neon light. Its the latest in computer fashion, I suppose. I aske
RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?However, the other problem may be that PC's, in general, are DEFINED as a Class B device unless the Manufacturer can show reason otherwise. Those reasons include that the product is NOT sold to the general public such as in mom & pop electronics outlet. Thus, the product should have been considered as a Class B device by the manufacturer, tested accordingly, and issued the Declaration of Conformity (DoC). (The TCB route to certification is also available). If the computer has been assembled from certified components, then he/she may issue a DoC based upon the certified components and mark the product accordingly. Without the appropriate FCC Certification mark (or DoC mark), the product would be considered non-compliant and is on the market illegally. This is also a major issue for people like us (on this list) that spend the money to do things correctly and then have to compete with those that do not. my 2-bits worth. John Shinn, P.E. Manager, Lab Operations Sanmina-SCI -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of George Stults Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 11:38 AM To: 'Wagner, John P (John)'; michael.sundst...@nokia.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? Okay then, I think I see the point. Supposing for the moment that an FCC DoC does exist for the modified case, and that it self declares Class A, and they have test results to back it up, Then, the 'legal' problem would lie with the assertion that its being sold at retail outlets for home use. Except of course the manufacturer would say that its not being sold for that purpose, and the retail outlet doesn't know the difference. Ignorance is bli$$. George Stults -Original Message- From: Wagner, John P (John) [mailto:johnwag...@avaya.com] Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 10:52 AM To: michael.sundst...@nokia.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; George Stults Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? Importance: High The current FCC rules are pretty clear. For "systems" assembled from components, the "system" considered compliant if assembled from compliant components; namely, enclosures, motherboards, power supplies. The peripheral rules also apply. So, if this case or enclosure has been tested and shown to be compliant when used as a component for a system, then all is ok. To be legal, the case should have an FCC DoC. John P. Wagner Regulatory Compliance & Mandatory Standards AVAYA Strategic Standards. 1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16 Westminster, CO 80234-2726 Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241 johnwag...@avaya.com -- From: George Stults[SMTP:george.stu...@watchguard.com] Reply To: George Stults Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 9:56 AM To: 'michael.sundst...@nokia.com'; 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject:Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? The cases are being sold as components, although I am sure that any of the stores I visited would sell me an assembled system with the modified plastic-window-style-cases. There is no understanding of emission requirements at the level of the retail outlet. Surely this situation has come up before, where there were easily assembled systems from commercially available components sold for the purpose, that would nevertheless be non-compliant with a high degree of probability. How was it handled in the past? What reasoning can be applied to justify the proposition that the plastic-window-style-cases cannot be legally sold? George Stults -Original Message- From: michael.sundst...@nokia.com [mailto:michael.sundst...@nokia.com] Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:58 AM To: jklin...@celectronics.com; George Stults; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? If they are selling these PC's out of a store, how can they be homebuilt? Michael Sundstrom NOKIA TCC Dallas / EMC ofc: (972) 374-1462 cell: (817) 917-5021 amateur call: KB5UKT -Original Message- From: ext Jeff Klinger [mailto:jklin...@celectronics.com] Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 5:39 PM To: George Stults; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? George, The method for testing motherboards is intended to be combined with the DoC method of declaring compliance based on individual testing of the components that comprise the full computer system, i.e. Assembled from tested co
RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
The capacity for Humans to do stupid things still amazes me after all the years I have been in this business. Neon lights on dash boards, under cars, surrounding license plates sync'd to music to mention a few. That someone would re-create the spark gap noise generator in the guise of a PC chassis should come as no surprise. A 1.5Ghz P4 CPU with inadequate power distribution, no decoupling & a Who Fung-Yuck power supply is not noisy enough ???, we now need a new - improved noise source to pollute our crowded spectrum ??? As a visitor from Vulcan once said "Beam me up - there is no intelligent life on this planet" Michael Taylor Choking on smoke in Colorado -Original Message- From: Wagner, John P (John) [mailto:johnwag...@avaya.com] Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 1:48 PM To: michael.sundst...@nokia.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; George Stults; Ken Javor Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? Importance: High Sorry, I mis-spoke. Originally, the intent was to separately "recognize" CPU boards, power supplies, and enclosures. The requirement for enclosures is not in the rules only CPU boards and power supplies. In answer to the question, there were no specific shielding effectiveness requirements. The enclosure was to be evaluated with one or more fully functional PC enclosed, or alternatively a signal generator. If the device so enclosed met the limit requirments, the enclosure was "compliant." Presumably lack of support for the enclosure rules caused the FCC to back off. Now the requirements are on the CPU board whose installation instructions must include any requirements for the use of a metal enclosure, etc. 15.101 and 15.102 describe the conditions for compliance. John P. Wagner Regulatory Compliance & Mandatory Standards AVAYA Strategic Standards. 1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16 Westminster, CO 80234-2726 Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241 johnwag...@avaya.com -- From: Ken Javor[SMTP:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 1:18 PM To: Wagner, John P (John); michael.sundst...@nokia.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; George Stults Subject: Re: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? Importance: High What is an FCC compliant enclosure? What are the shielding effectiveness requirements? :-) on 7/15/02 12:51 PM, Wagner, John P (John) at johnwag...@avaya.com wrote: The current FCC rules are pretty clear. For "systems" assembled from components, the "system" considered compliant if assembled from compliant components; namely, enclosures, motherboards, power supplies. The peripheral rules also apply. So, if this case or enclosure has been tested and shown to be compliant when used as a component for a system, then all is ok. To be legal, the case should have an FCC DoC. John P. Wagner Regulatory Compliance & Mandatory Standards AVAYA Strategic Standards. 1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16 Westminster, CO 80234-2726 Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241 johnwag...@avaya.com -- From: George Stults[SMTP:george.stu...@watchguard.com] Reply To: George Stults Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 9:56 AM To: 'michael.sundst...@nokia.com'; 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject:Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? The cases are being sold as components, although I am sure that any of the stores I visited would sell me an assembled system with the modified plastic-window-style-cases. There is no understanding of emission requirements at the level of the retail outlet. Surely this situation has come up before, where there were easily assembled systems from commercially available components sold for the purpose, that would nevertheless be non-compliant with a high degree of probability. How was it handled in the past? What reasoning can be applied to justify the proposition that the plastic-window-style-cases cannot be legally sold? George Stults -Original Message- From: michael.sundst...@nokia.com [ mailto:michael.sundst...@nokia.com <mailto:michael.sundst...@nokia.com> ] Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:58 AM To: jklin...@celectronics.com; George Stults; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? If they are selling these PC's out of a store, how can they be homebuilt? Michael Sundstrom NOKIA TCC Dallas / EMC ofc: (972) 374-1462 cell: (817) 917-5021 amateur call: KB5UKT -Original Message- From: ext Jeff Klinger [ mailto:jklin...@celectronics.com <mailto:jklin...@celectronics.com> ] Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 5:39 PM To: George Stults; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
Re: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?I dont recall seeing a DoC on any of the $28 cases I have purchased for my home built pc's. It is remarkable that the ATX power supplies actually have UL/TUV many of these cases include. Please note that these cases do NOT provide sufficient containment to meet class A (much less class B) without intelligent treatment. It is indeed a big loophole, albeit for a small crowd. IMHE, purchasing a new pc with warranty costs only a little more than a self assembled pc from a heap of parts. This would seem to appeal only to the hobbyist (new age student?) and constitute a very small population. Kyle Ehler (forced retiree - LSI Logic) - Original Message - From: Wagner, John P (John) To: michael.sundst...@nokia.com ; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org ; George Stults Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:51 PM Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? The current FCC rules are pretty clear. For "systems" assembled from components, the "system" considered compliant if assembled from compliant components; namely, enclosures, motherboards, power supplies. The peripheral rules also apply. So, if this case or enclosure has been tested and shown to be compliant when used as a component for a system, then all is ok. To be legal, the case should have an FCC DoC. John P. Wagner
Re: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
But even a CPU board requirement is invalid unless all possible input/output cables are attached, right? on 7/15/02 2:48 PM, Wagner, John P (John) at johnwag...@avaya.com wrote: Sorry, I mis-spoke. Originally, the intent was to separately "recognize" CPU boards, power supplies, and enclosures. The requirement for enclosures is not in the rules only CPU boards and power supplies. In answer to the question, there were no specific shielding effectiveness requirements. The enclosure was to be evaluated with one or more fully functional PC enclosed, or alternatively a signal generator. If the device so enclosed met the limit requirments, the enclosure was "compliant." Presumably lack of support for the enclosure rules caused the FCC to back off. Now the requirements are on the CPU board whose installation instructions must include any requirements for the use of a metal enclosure, etc. 15.101 and 15.102 describe the conditions for compliance. John P. Wagner Regulatory Compliance & Mandatory Standards AVAYA Strategic Standards. 1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16 Westminster, CO 80234-2726 Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241 johnwag...@avaya.com -- From: Ken Javor[SMTP:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 1:18 PM To: Wagner, John P (John); michael.sundst...@nokia.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; George Stults Subject: Re: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? Importance: High What is an FCC compliant enclosure? What are the shielding effectiveness requirements? :-) on 7/15/02 12:51 PM, Wagner, John P (John) at johnwag...@avaya.com wrote: The current FCC rules are pretty clear. For "systems" assembled from components, the "system" considered compliant if assembled from compliant components; namely, enclosures, motherboards, power supplies. The peripheral rules also apply. So, if this case or enclosure has been tested and shown to be compliant when used as a component for a system, then all is ok. To be legal, the case should have an FCC DoC. John P. Wagner Regulatory Compliance & Mandatory Standards AVAYA Strategic Standards. 1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16 Westminster, CO 80234-2726 Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241 johnwag...@avaya.com -- From: George Stults[SMTP:george.stu...@watchguard.com] Reply To: George Stults Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 9:56 AM To: 'michael.sundst...@nokia.com'; 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject:Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? The cases are being sold as components, although I am sure that any of the stores I visited would sell me an assembled system with the modified plastic-window-style-cases. There is no understanding of emission requirements at the level of the retail outlet. Surely this situation has come up before, where there were easily assembled systems from commercially available components sold for the purpose, that would nevertheless be non-compliant with a high degree of probability. How was it handled in the past? What reasoning can be applied to justify the proposition that the plastic-window-style-cases cannot be legally sold? George Stults -Original Message- From: michael.sundst...@nokia.com [mailto:michael.sundst...@nokia.com] Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:58 AM To: jklin...@celectronics.com; George Stults; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? If they are selling these PC's out of a store, how can they be homebuilt? Michael Sundstrom NOKIA TCC Dallas / EMC ofc: (972) 374-1462 cell: (817) 917-5021 amateur call: KB5UKT -Original Message- From: ext Jeff Klinger [mailto:jklin...@celectronics.com] Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 5:39 PM To: George Stults; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? George, The method for testing motherboards is intended to be combined with the DoC method of declaring compliance based on individual testing of the components that comprise the full computer system, i.e. Assembled from tested components. The final computer system is still required to meet the FCC Class B limit just as if it was tested, even though it was not. I suppose that a small (extremely small) chance exists that the final system could pass if tested. The loophole here may be the "Home-Built devices" clause, Title 47 part 15.23. Where the device is not marketed or constructed from a kit. This allows for five or less devices built for personal use without the need for compliance testing (FCC only). Jeff Klinger Director EMC Engineering Compatible Electronics, Inc. Ph: 714-579-0500 Fx: 714-528-8984 http://www.celectronics.com NARTE Certified ATL-0180-E -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of George Stults Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002
RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
Sorry, I mis-spoke. Originally, the intent was to separately "recognize" CPU boards, power supplies, and enclosures. The requirement for enclosures is not in the rules only CPU boards and power supplies. In answer to the question, there were no specific shielding effectiveness requirements. The enclosure was to be evaluated with one or more fully functional PC enclosed, or alternatively a signal generator. If the device so enclosed met the limit requirments, the enclosure was "compliant." Presumably lack of support for the enclosure rules caused the FCC to back off. Now the requirements are on the CPU board whose installation instructions must include any requirements for the use of a metal enclosure, etc. 15.101 and 15.102 describe the conditions for compliance. John P. Wagner Regulatory Compliance & Mandatory Standards AVAYA Strategic Standards. 1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16 Westminster, CO 80234-2726 Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241 johnwag...@avaya.com > -- > From: Ken Javor[SMTP:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] > Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 1:18 PM > To: Wagner, John P (John); michael.sundst...@nokia.com; > emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; George Stults > Subject: Re: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? > Importance: High > > What is an FCC compliant enclosure? What are the shielding effectiveness > requirements? :-) > > on 7/15/02 12:51 PM, Wagner, John P (John) at johnwag...@avaya.com wrote: > > > > > The current FCC rules are pretty clear. For "systems" assembled from > components, the "system" considered compliant if assembled from compliant > components; namely, enclosures, motherboards, power supplies. The peripheral > rules also apply. So, if this case or enclosure has been tested and shown to > be compliant when used as a component for a system, then all is ok. To be > legal, the case should have an FCC DoC. > > John P. Wagner > Regulatory Compliance & Mandatory Standards > AVAYA Strategic Standards. > 1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16 > Westminster, CO 80234-2726 > Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241 > johnwag...@avaya.com > > > > > > > > -- > From: George Stults[SMTP:george.stu...@watchguard.com] > Reply To: George Stults > Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 9:56 AM > To: 'michael.sundst...@nokia.com'; 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' > Subject:Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? > > The cases are being sold as components, although I am sure that any of > the > stores I visited would sell me an assembled system with the modified > plastic-window-style-cases. There is no understanding of emission > requirements at the level of the retail outlet. > > Surely this situation has come up before, where there were easily > assembled > systems from commercially available components sold for the purpose, > that > would nevertheless be non-compliant with a high degree of probability. > How > was it handled in the past? What reasoning can be applied to justify > the > proposition that the plastic-window-style-cases cannot be legally sold? > > George Stults > > -Original Message- > From: michael.sundst...@nokia.com [mailto:michael.sundst...@nokia.com] > Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:58 AM > To: jklin...@celectronics.com; George Stults; > emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? > > If they are selling these PC's out of a store, how can they be > homebuilt? > > Michael Sundstrom > NOKIA >TCC Dallas / EMC > ofc: (972) 374-1462 > cell: (817) 917-5021 > amateur call: KB5UKT > > -Original Message- > From: ext Jeff Klinger [mailto:jklin...@celectronics.com] > Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 5:39 PM > To: George Stults; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?> > > > George, > > The method for testing motherboards is intended to be combined with the > DoC > method of declaring compliance based on individual testing of the > components > that comprise the full computer system, i.e. Assembled from tested > components. The final computer system is still required to meet the FCC > Class B limit just as if it was tested, even though it was not. I > suppos
Re: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
What is an FCC compliant enclosure? What are the shielding effectiveness requirements? :-) on 7/15/02 12:51 PM, Wagner, John P (John) at johnwag...@avaya.com wrote: The current FCC rules are pretty clear. For "systems" assembled from components, the "system" considered compliant if assembled from compliant components; namely, enclosures, motherboards, power supplies. The peripheral rules also apply. So, if this case or enclosure has been tested and shown to be compliant when used as a component for a system, then all is ok. To be legal, the case should have an FCC DoC. John P. Wagner Regulatory Compliance & Mandatory Standards AVAYA Strategic Standards. 1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16 Westminster, CO 80234-2726 Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241 johnwag...@avaya.com -- From: George Stults[SMTP:george.stu...@watchguard.com] Reply To: George Stults Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 9:56 AM To: 'michael.sundst...@nokia.com'; 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject:Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? The cases are being sold as components, although I am sure that any of the stores I visited would sell me an assembled system with the modified plastic-window-style-cases. There is no understanding of emission requirements at the level of the retail outlet. Surely this situation has come up before, where there were easily assembled systems from commercially available components sold for the purpose, that would nevertheless be non-compliant with a high degree of probability. How was it handled in the past? What reasoning can be applied to justify the proposition that the plastic-window-style-cases cannot be legally sold? George Stults -Original Message- From: michael.sundst...@nokia.com [mailto:michael.sundst...@nokia.com] Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:58 AM To: jklin...@celectronics.com; George Stults; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? If they are selling these PC's out of a store, how can they be homebuilt? Michael Sundstrom NOKIA TCC Dallas / EMC ofc: (972) 374-1462 cell: (817) 917-5021 amateur call: KB5UKT -Original Message- From: ext Jeff Klinger [mailto:jklin...@celectronics.com] Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 5:39 PM To: George Stults; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? George, The method for testing motherboards is intended to be combined with the DoC method of declaring compliance based on individual testing of the components that comprise the full computer system, i.e. Assembled from tested components. The final computer system is still required to meet the FCC Class B limit just as if it was tested, even though it was not. I suppose that a small (extremely small) chance exists that the final system could pass if tested. The loophole here may be the "Home-Built devices" clause, Title 47 part 15.23. Where the device is not marketed or constructed from a kit. This allows for five or less devices built for personal use without the need for compliance testing (FCC only). Jeff Klinger Director EMC Engineering Compatible Electronics, Inc. Ph: 714-579-0500 Fx: 714-528-8984 http://www.celectronics.com NARTE Certified ATL-0180-E -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of George Stults Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 3:11 PM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? Hi Folks, I just walked into three local computer stores (west coast, USA) and found that desktop computers have become art forms. There are computer cases for sale with large plexiglass windows about (10in x12in), some with a fan in the middle of the plexiglass panel, and inside the case, there is a 12 inch long neon lamp, powered from the ATX power supply just like any installable drive. Through the window, one can see the motherboard, CPU heatsink, etc, all illuminated by the Neon light. Its the latest in computer fashion, I suppose. I asked a few questions at the stores and found at there are least 2 manufacturers, and that one can obtain kits on the internet to do the same modification at home. After looking at the computer cases, I would expect them to radiate about the same as an open chassis though possibly more directional. My question would be, is there any loophole through which this is legal, or is this the blatant violation that it looks like. I've heard that there is a requirement for computer motherboards to fall within some radiated level with an open chassis. Is that correct and could that be the rational here? George Stults --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://
RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
Okay then, I think I see the point. Supposing for the moment that an FCC DoC does exist for the modified case, and that it self declares Class A, and they have test results to back it up, Then, the 'legal' problem would lie with the assertion that its being sold at retail outlets for home use. Except of course the manufacturer would say that its not being sold for that purpose, and the retail outlet doesn't know the difference. Ignorance is bli$$. George Stults -Original Message- From: Wagner, John P (John) [mailto:johnwag...@avaya.com] Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 10:52 AM To: michael.sundst...@nokia.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; George Stults Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? Importance: High The current FCC rules are pretty clear. For "systems" assembled from components, the "system" considered compliant if assembled from compliant components; namely, enclosures, motherboards, power supplies. The peripheral rules also apply. So, if this case or enclosure has been tested and shown to be compliant when used as a component for a system, then all is ok. To be legal, the case should have an FCC DoC. John P. Wagner Regulatory Compliance & Mandatory Standards AVAYA Strategic Standards. 1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16 Westminster, CO 80234-2726 Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241 johnwag...@avaya.com -- From: George Stults[SMTP:george.stu...@watchguard.com] Reply To: George Stults Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 9:56 AM To: 'michael.sundst...@nokia.com'; 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject:Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? The cases are being sold as components, although I am sure that any of the stores I visited would sell me an assembled system with the modified plastic-window-style-cases. There is no understanding of emission requirements at the level of the retail outlet. Surely this situation has come up before, where there were easily assembled systems from commercially available components sold for the purpose, that would nevertheless be non-compliant with a high degree of probability. How was it handled in the past? What reasoning can be applied to justify the proposition that the plastic-window-style-cases cannot be legally sold? George Stults -Original Message- From: michael.sundst...@nokia.com [ mailto:michael.sundst...@nokia.com <mailto:michael.sundst...@nokia.com> ] Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:58 AM To: jklin...@celectronics.com; George Stults; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? If they are selling these PC's out of a store, how can they be homebuilt? Michael Sundstrom NOKIA TCC Dallas / EMC ofc: (972) 374-1462 cell: (817) 917-5021 amateur call: KB5UKT -Original Message- From: ext Jeff Klinger [ mailto:jklin...@celectronics.com <mailto:jklin...@celectronics.com> ] Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 5:39 PM To: George Stults; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? George, The method for testing motherboards is intended to be combined with the DoC method of declaring compliance based on individual testing of the components that comprise the full computer system, i.e. Assembled from tested components. The final computer system is still required to meet the FCC Class B limit just as if it was tested, even though it was not. I suppose that a small (extremely small) chance exists that the final system could pass if tested. The loophole here may be the "Home-Built devices" clause, Title 47 part 15.23. Where the device is not marketed or constructed from a kit. This allows for five or less devices built for personal use without the need for compliance testing (FCC only). Jeff Klinger Director EMC Engineering Compatible Electronics, Inc. Ph: 714-579-0500 Fx: 714-528-8984 http://www.celectronics.com <http://www.celectronics.com> NARTE Certified ATL-0180-E -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [ mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org <mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org> ]On Behalf Of George Stults Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 3:11 PM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? Hi Folks, I just walked into three local computer stores (west coast, USA) and found that desktop computers have become art forms. There are computer cases for sale with large plexiglass windows about (10in x12in), some with a fan in the middle of the plexiglass panel, and inside the case, there is a 12 inch long neon lamp, powered from the ATX power supply just like any installable dri
RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
With the "Home-Built" issue, I was keying on the "instructions to build available on the internet" part, obviously if the systems are offered or marketed for sale whole, or in kit form, then as far as the FCC rules are concerned, it's not considered homebuilt. This has been an issue for as long as I can recall, PC systems, built and sold through mom-and-pop stores, usually slide when it comes to the FCC rules. It's just too difficult for the FCC to pursue each and every issue. I can't speak for the FCC, but my understanding is that the FCC is complaint driven, so if this becomes a problem, someone possibly will complain, and the FCC will get involved, depending on the severity of the problem. Now, if this becomes a major craze and everyone is buying these systems, then the exposure to any problems that exist is far greater, and the probability of the FCC putting a stop to it is far greater. The short-and-simple of it is that it is not legal to sell these systems unless the FCC rules have been applied. The more complex question would then be, What can, and or should, be done about it? And to make this response even longer and more complex, let me ask one more question; How many people build or modify their own systems at home or in the office, and how many problems are actually caused by these systems? Jeff -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of michael.sundst...@nokia.com Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:58 AM To: jklin...@celectronics.com; george.stu...@watchguard.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? If they are selling these PC's out of a store, how can they be homebuilt? Michael Sundstrom NOKIA TCC Dallas / EMC ofc: (972) 374-1462 cell: (817) 917-5021 amateur call: KB5UKT -Original Message- From: ext Jeff Klinger [mailto:jklin...@celectronics.com] Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 5:39 PM To: George Stults; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? George, The method for testing motherboards is intended to be combined with the DoC method of declaring compliance based on individual testing of the components that comprise the full computer system, i.e. Assembled from tested components. The final computer system is still required to meet the FCC Class B limit just as if it was tested, even though it was not. I suppose that a small (extremely small) chance exists that the final system could pass if tested. The loophole here may be the "Home-Built devices" clause, Title 47 part 15.23. Where the device is not marketed or constructed from a kit. This allows for five or less devices built for personal use without the need for compliance testing (FCC only). Jeff Klinger Director EMC Engineering Compatible Electronics, Inc. Ph: 714-579-0500 Fx: 714-528-8984 http://www.celectronics.com NARTE Certified ATL-0180-E -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of George Stults Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 3:11 PM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? Hi Folks, I just walked into three local computer stores (west coast, USA) and found that desktop computers have become art forms. There are computer cases for sale with large plexiglass windows about (10in x12in), some with a fan in the middle of the plexiglass panel, and inside the case, there is a 12 inch long neon lamp, powered from the ATX power supply just like any installable drive. Through the window, one can see the motherboard, CPU heatsink, etc, all illuminated by the Neon light. Its the latest in computer fashion, I suppose. I asked a few questions at the stores and found at there are least 2 manufacturers, and that one can obtain kits on the internet to do the same modification at home. After looking at the computer cases, I would expect them to radiate about the same as an open chassis though possibly more directional. My question would be, is there any loophole through which this is legal, or is this the blatant violation that it looks like. I've heard that there is a requirement for computer motherboards to fall within some radiated level with an open chassis. Is that correct and could that be the rational here? George Stults --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com Fo
RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
The current FCC rules are pretty clear. For "systems" assembled from components, the "system" considered compliant if assembled from compliant components; namely, enclosures, motherboards, power supplies. The peripheral rules also apply. So, if this case or enclosure has been tested and shown to be compliant when used as a component for a system, then all is ok. To be legal, the case should have an FCC DoC. John P. Wagner Regulatory Compliance & Mandatory Standards AVAYA Strategic Standards. 1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16 Westminster, CO 80234-2726 Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241 johnwag...@avaya.com > -- > From: George Stults[SMTP:george.stu...@watchguard.com] > Reply To: George Stults > Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 9:56 AM > To: 'michael.sundst...@nokia.com'; 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' > Subject: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? > > > The cases are being sold as components, although I am sure that any of the > stores I visited would sell me an assembled system with the modified > plastic-window-style-cases. There is no understanding of emission > requirements at the level of the retail outlet. > > Surely this situation has come up before, where there were easily assembled > systems from commercially available components sold for the purpose, that > would nevertheless be non-compliant with a high degree of probability. How > was it handled in the past? What reasoning can be applied to justify the > proposition that the plastic-window-style-cases cannot be legally sold? > > George Stults > > > -Original Message- > From: michael.sundst...@nokia.com [mailto:michael.sundst...@nokia.com] > Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:58 AM > To: jklin...@celectronics.com; George Stults; > emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? > > > If they are selling these PC's out of a store, how can they be homebuilt? > > Michael Sundstrom > NOKIA > TCC Dallas / EMC >ofc: (972) 374-1462 > cell: (817) 917-5021 > amateur call: KB5UKT > > > -Original Message- > From: ext Jeff Klinger [mailto:jklin...@celectronics.com] > Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 5:39 PM > To: George Stults; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? > > > > George, > > The method for testing motherboards is intended to be combined with the DoC > method of declaring compliance based on individual testing of the components > that comprise the full computer system, i.e. Assembled from tested > components. The final computer system is still required to meet the FCC > Class B limit just as if it was tested, even though it was not. I suppose > that a small (extremely small) chance exists that the final system could > pass if tested. > > The loophole here may be the "Home-Built devices" clause, Title 47 part > 15.23. Where the device is not marketed or constructed from a kit. This > allows for five or less devices built for personal use without the need for > compliance testing (FCC only). > > Jeff Klinger > Director EMC Engineering > Compatible Electronics, Inc. > Ph: 714-579-0500 Fx: 714-528-8984 > http://www.celectronics.com > NARTE Certified ATL-0180-E > > > > -Original Message- > From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of George Stults > Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 3:11 PM > To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' > Subject: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? > > > > Hi Folks, > > I just walked into three local computer stores (west coast, USA) and found > that desktop computers have become art forms. There are computer cases for > sale with large plexiglass windows about (10in x12in), some with a fan in > the middle of the plexiglass panel, and inside the case, there is a 12 inch > long neon lamp, powered from the ATX power supply just like any installable> > drive. Through the window, one can see the motherboard, CPU heatsink, etc, > all illuminated by the Neon light. Its the latest in computer fashion, I > suppose. > > I asked a few questions at the stores and found at there are least 2 > manufacturers, and that one can obtain kits on the internet to do the same > modification at home. > > After looking at the computer cases, I would expect them to radiate about > the same as an open chassis though possibly more directional. My question > would be, is there any loophole through which this is legal, or is this the > blatant violation that it looks like. I've heard that t
RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
If they are selling these PC's out of a store, how can they be homebuilt? Michael Sundstrom NOKIA TCC Dallas / EMC ofc: (972) 374-1462 cell: (817) 917-5021 amateur call: KB5UKT -Original Message- From: ext Jeff Klinger [mailto:jklin...@celectronics.com] Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 5:39 PM To: George Stults; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? George, The method for testing motherboards is intended to be combined with the DoC method of declaring compliance based on individual testing of the components that comprise the full computer system, i.e. Assembled from tested components. The final computer system is still required to meet the FCC Class B limit just as if it was tested, even though it was not. I suppose that a small (extremely small) chance exists that the final system could pass if tested. The loophole here may be the "Home-Built devices" clause, Title 47 part 15.23. Where the device is not marketed or constructed from a kit. This allows for five or less devices built for personal use without the need for compliance testing (FCC only). Jeff Klinger Director EMC Engineering Compatible Electronics, Inc. Ph: 714-579-0500 Fx: 714-528-8984 http://www.celectronics.com NARTE Certified ATL-0180-E -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of George Stults Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 3:11 PM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? Hi Folks, I just walked into three local computer stores (west coast, USA) and found that desktop computers have become art forms. There are computer cases for sale with large plexiglass windows about (10in x12in), some with a fan in the middle of the plexiglass panel, and inside the case, there is a 12 inch long neon lamp, powered from the ATX power supply just like any installable drive. Through the window, one can see the motherboard, CPU heatsink, etc, all illuminated by the Neon light. Its the latest in computer fashion, I suppose. I asked a few questions at the stores and found at there are least 2 manufacturers, and that one can obtain kits on the internet to do the same modification at home. After looking at the computer cases, I would expect them to radiate about the same as an open chassis though possibly more directional. My question would be, is there any loophole through which this is legal, or is this the blatant violation that it looks like. I've heard that there is a requirement for computer motherboards to fall within some radiated level with an open chassis. Is that correct and could that be the rational here? George Stults --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All
RE: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights?
George, The method for testing motherboards is intended to be combined with the DoC method of declaring compliance based on individual testing of the components that comprise the full computer system, i.e. Assembled from tested components. The final computer system is still required to meet the FCC Class B limit just as if it was tested, even though it was not. I suppose that a small (extremely small) chance exists that the final system could pass if tested. The loophole here may be the "Home-Built devices" clause, Title 47 part 15.23. Where the device is not marketed or constructed from a kit. This allows for five or less devices built for personal use without the need for compliance testing (FCC only). Jeff Klinger Director EMC Engineering Compatible Electronics, Inc. Ph: 714-579-0500 Fx: 714-528-8984 http://www.celectronics.com NARTE Certified ATL-0180-E -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of George Stults Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 3:11 PM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: Open chassis computers for sale - with neon lights? Hi Folks, I just walked into three local computer stores (west coast, USA) and found that desktop computers have become art forms. There are computer cases for sale with large plexiglass windows about (10in x12in), some with a fan in the middle of the plexiglass panel, and inside the case, there is a 12 inch long neon lamp, powered from the ATX power supply just like any installable drive. Through the window, one can see the motherboard, CPU heatsink, etc, all illuminated by the Neon light. Its the latest in computer fashion, I suppose. I asked a few questions at the stores and found at there are least 2 manufacturers, and that one can obtain kits on the internet to do the same modification at home. After looking at the computer cases, I would expect them to radiate about the same as an open chassis though possibly more directional. My question would be, is there any loophole through which this is legal, or is this the blatant violation that it looks like. I've heard that there is a requirement for computer motherboards to fall within some radiated level with an open chassis. Is that correct and could that be the rational here? George Stults --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
