RE: RFID Tags
Sections 9.4 and 9.5 of EN 300 208-1 V1.1.1 specifically use a tag during the test. I don't see a requirement for a tag to be present for FCC testing, although I have read that tags that translate the reader frequency must be tested with the reader. Unfortunately I do not remember where I read that. Jamie Forrester Garmin International From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of rehel...@mmm.com Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 7:25 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RFID Tags Are there test facilities testing RFID equipment without tags? I am being told that RFID equipment does not require RFID tags present in the field during testing for both the US and Europe. Is this true? I thought it was just common sense to use the tags. Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: RFID tags
I agree with Frank, These tags do not have any ability to transmit. When they are within a field they dampen / load the signal from the reader. Therefore they cannot be included in the RTTE directive. Dave Grant Compliance Engineer Alison Laboratories Ltd DDI: +64 7 838-9829Fax: +64 7 838-9801 FdeVall@assaabloyitg.c omTo: rehel...@mmm.com Sent by: cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org, Joshua Wiseman jwise...@printronix.com, owner-emc-pstc@majordo owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org mo.ieee.org Subject: RE: RFID tags 21/11/2003 08:28 Please respond to FdeVall Bob, Passive tags that are energized by an impending RF field are usually not considered transmitters. This is because they return their data by loading and unloading the impending RF field; this is sometimes termed backscatter. This type of passive tag does not fall under the RTTE Directive. Active tags that have their own oscillator and transmitter, however, need to meet RTTE Directive requirements. Regards, Frank de Vall Assa Abloy Identification Technology Group rehel...@mmm.com Sent by: To: Joshua Wiseman jwise...@printronix.com owner-emc-pstc@majordocc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org mo.ieee.org Subject: RE: RFID tags 11/20/2003 09:33 AM Please respond to reheller Not for sure. But it is my understanding that the passive tags are not subject to RTTE. We need someone who knows for sure to respond. Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === Joshua Wiseman JWiseman@printron To: rehel...@mmm.com ix.comrichwo...@tycoint.com cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 11/20/2003 09:52 owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org AM Subject: RE: RFID tags Bob, Do you know anything about the 915MHz passive tags? Josh From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 7:24 AM To: richwo...@tycoint.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: RFID tags === = The RFID tags (active tags) are subject to the RTTE Directive and the following standards for 13.56 MHz tags: 300 330-1 (General) 300 330-2 (Radio) 301 489-3 (EMC) Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === Are RFID tags (e.g., access control badges) considered to be transmitters/receivers and thus subject to the RTTE Directive? These types of tags are powered by a received signal, may receive a coded signal, and they respond with a coded signal. They are obviously very low power devices and the transmit power is far below that of their interrogator. But the nagging fact remains that they are transponders. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco
Re: RFID tags
My vote.. Passive means to modify the field, this includes harmonic content. Active means use the field to generate new frequencies, as though a battery were attached. - Robert - Robert A. Macy, PE .. m...@california.com 408 286 3985 . . . .. . . fx 408 297 9121 AJM International Electronics Consultants 101 E San Fernando, Suite 402 San Jose, CA 95112 On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:38:05 -0500 djumbdenst...@tycoint.com wrote: I have heard the term passive used 2 ways, as indicated below or as a device that actually transponds an independent code from that which it received from the interrogator, powered off the interrogator's field. Thus in the latter it is a function of with or without a battery, with = active, without = passive. What is the consensus of the Forum for passive regarding RFID tags? Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: RFID tags
I found the ACA link http://www.aca.gov.au/radcomm/frequency_planning/frequency_assignment/docs/m s27.pdf You will have to paste it back togther if the link word wraps Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International From: WOODS, RICHARD Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 3:31 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: RFID tags OK, we have three types of tags 1) tag with no electronics other than perhaps a diode (e.g., anti-theft tag) 2) tag with electronics powered by an external EM field (e.g., a proximity type access badge) 3) tag with a battery and electronics (e.g., toll road transponder in a car) You will be happy to know that the ACA (Australia) considers all of them to be transmitters. I have the position paper if you want a copy. Number 3 is considered a transmitter in the USA and EU. What about number 2? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International From: fdev...@assaabloyitg.com [mailto:fdev...@assaabloyitg.com] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 2:28 PM To: rehel...@mmm.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; Joshua Wiseman; owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: RFID tags Bob, Passive tags that are energized by an impending RF field are usually not considered transmitters. This is because they return their data by loading and unloading the impending RF field; this is sometimes termed backscatter. This type of passive tag does not fall under the RTTE Directive. Active tags that have their own oscillator and transmitter, however, need to meet RTTE Directive requirements. Regards, Frank de Vall Assa Abloy Identification Technology Group rehel...@mmm.com Sent by: To: Joshua Wiseman jwise...@printronix.com owner-emc-pstc@majordocc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org mo.ieee.org Subject: RE: RFID tags 11/20/2003 09:33 AM Please respond to reheller Not for sure. But it is my understanding that the passive tags are not subject to RTTE. We need someone who knows for sure to respond. Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === Joshua Wiseman JWiseman@printron To: rehel...@mmm.com ix.comrichwo...@tycoint.com cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 11/20/2003 09:52 owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org AM Subject: RE: RFID tags Bob, Do you know anything about the 915MHz passive tags? Josh From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 7:24 AM To: richwo...@tycoint.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: RFID tags = The RFID tags (active tags) are subject to the RTTE Directive and the following standards for 13.56 MHz tags: 300 330-1 (General) 300 330-2 (Radio) 301 489-3 (EMC) Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === Are RFID tags (e.g., access control badges) considered to be transmitters/receivers and thus subject to the RTTE Directive? These types of tags are powered by a received signal, may receive a coded signal, and they respond with a coded signal. They are obviously very low power devices and the transmit power is far below that of their interrogator. But the nagging fact remains that they are transponders. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord
RE: RFID tags
OK, we have three types of tags 1) tag with no electronics other than perhaps a diode (e.g., anti-theft tag) 2) tag with electronics powered by an external EM field (e.g., a proximity type access badge) 3) tag with a battery and electronics (e.g., toll road transponder in a car) You will be happy to know that the ACA (Australia) considers all of them to be transmitters. I have the position paper if you want a copy. Number 3 is considered a transmitter in the USA and EU. What about number 2? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International From: fdev...@assaabloyitg.com [mailto:fdev...@assaabloyitg.com] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 2:28 PM To: rehel...@mmm.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; Joshua Wiseman; owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: RFID tags Bob, Passive tags that are energized by an impending RF field are usually not considered transmitters. This is because they return their data by loading and unloading the impending RF field; this is sometimes termed backscatter. This type of passive tag does not fall under the RTTE Directive. Active tags that have their own oscillator and transmitter, however, need to meet RTTE Directive requirements. Regards, Frank de Vall Assa Abloy Identification Technology Group rehel...@mmm.com Sent by: To: Joshua Wiseman jwise...@printronix.com owner-emc-pstc@majordocc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org mo.ieee.org Subject: RE: RFID tags 11/20/2003 09:33 AM Please respond to reheller Not for sure. But it is my understanding that the passive tags are not subject to RTTE. We need someone who knows for sure to respond. Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === Joshua Wiseman JWiseman@printron To: rehel...@mmm.com ix.comrichwo...@tycoint.com cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 11/20/2003 09:52 owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org AM Subject: RE: RFID tags Bob, Do you know anything about the 915MHz passive tags? Josh From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 7:24 AM To: richwo...@tycoint.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: RFID tags = The RFID tags (active tags) are subject to the RTTE Directive and the following standards for 13.56 MHz tags: 300 330-1 (General) 300 330-2 (Radio) 301 489-3 (EMC) Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === Are RFID tags (e.g., access control badges) considered to be transmitters/receivers and thus subject to the RTTE Directive? These types of tags are powered by a received signal, may receive a coded signal, and they respond with a coded signal. They are obviously very low power devices and the transmit power is far below that of their interrogator. But the nagging fact remains that they are transponders. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being
RE: RFID tags
I have heard the term passive used 2 ways, as indicated below or as a device that actually transponds an independent code from that which it received from the interrogator, powered off the interrogator's field. Thus in the latter it is a function of with or without a battery, with = active, without = passive. What is the consensus of the Forum for passive regarding RFID tags? Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic From: don_borow...@selinc.com [mailto:don_borow...@selinc.com] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 1:42 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: RFID tags I think the passive, dumb RF antitheft tags are simply 915 MHz dipoles with a diode at the center. The scanners pick up a harmonic generated when a 915 MHz field is applied. Don Borowski Schweitzer Engineering Labs Pullman, WA rehel...@mmm.com Sent by: owner-emc-pstc@ma To jordomo.ieee.org Joshua Wiseman jwise...@printronix.com cc 11/20/03 08:33 AM emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject RE: RFID tags Please respond to rehel...@mmm.com Not for sure. But it is my understanding that the passive tags are not subject to RTTE. We need someone who knows for sure to respond. Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === Joshua Wiseman JWiseman@printron To: rehel...@mmm.com ix.comrichwo...@tycoint.com cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 11/20/2003 09:52 owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org AM Subject: RE: RFID tags Bob, Do you know anything about the 915MHz passive tags? Josh From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 7:24 AM To: richwo...@tycoint.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: RFID tags = The RFID tags (active tags) are subject to the RTTE Directive and the following standards for 13.56 MHz tags: 300 330-1 (General) 300 330-2 (Radio) 301 489-3 (EMC) Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === Are RFID tags (e.g., access control badges) considered to be transmitters/receivers and thus subject to the RTTE Directive? These types of tags are powered by a received signal, may receive a coded signal, and they respond with a coded signal. They are obviously very low power devices and the transmit power is far below that of their interrogator. But the nagging fact remains that they are transponders. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard
RE: RFID tags
Bob, Passive tags that are energized by an impending RF field are usually not considered transmitters. This is because they return their data by loading and unloading the impending RF field; this is sometimes termed backscatter. This type of passive tag does not fall under the RTTE Directive. Active tags that have their own oscillator and transmitter, however, need to meet RTTE Directive requirements. Regards, Frank de Vall Assa Abloy Identification Technology Group rehel...@mmm.com Sent by: To: Joshua Wiseman jwise...@printronix.com owner-emc-pstc@majordocc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org mo.ieee.org Subject: RE: RFID tags 11/20/2003 09:33 AM Please respond to reheller Not for sure. But it is my understanding that the passive tags are not subject to RTTE. We need someone who knows for sure to respond. Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === Joshua Wiseman JWiseman@printron To: rehel...@mmm.com ix.comrichwo...@tycoint.com cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 11/20/2003 09:52 owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org AM Subject: RE: RFID tags Bob, Do you know anything about the 915MHz passive tags? Josh From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 7:24 AM To: richwo...@tycoint.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: RFID tags === = The RFID tags (active tags) are subject to the RTTE Directive and the following standards for 13.56 MHz tags: 300 330-1 (General) 300 330-2 (Radio) 301 489-3 (EMC) Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === Are RFID tags (e.g., access control badges) considered to be transmitters/receivers and thus subject to the RTTE Directive? These types of tags are powered by a received signal, may receive a coded signal, and they respond with a coded signal. They are obviously very low power devices and the transmit power is far below that of their interrogator. But the nagging fact remains that they are transponders. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send
RE: RFID tags
Some of these passive RFID units are placed on tires , and fall under the automotive directive, so they may as well required RTTE certification. Since this units are capable to radiated energy, they would require to be certified. -Original Message- From: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 1:23 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:RE: RFID tags Well, that is the key reason for my question. I can find no means for distinguishing between passive and active tags in regards to the RTTE Directive or the ETSI standards. It seems to me that all tags fall under the RTTE Directive. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 11:34 AM To: Joshua Wiseman Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: RFID tags Not for sure. But it is my understanding that the passive tags are not subject to RTTE. We need someone who knows for sure to respond. Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === Joshua Wiseman JWiseman@printron To: rehel...@mmm.com ix.comrichwo...@tycoint.com cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 11/20/2003 09:52 owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org AM Subject: RE: RFID tags Bob, Do you know anything about the 915MHz passive tags? Josh From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 7:24 AM To: richwo...@tycoint.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: RFID tags = The RFID tags (active tags) are subject to the RTTE Directive and the following standards for 13.56 MHz tags: 300 330-1 (General) 300 330-2 (Radio) 301 489-3 (EMC) Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === Are RFID tags (e.g., access control badges) considered to be transmitters/receivers and thus subject to the RTTE Directive? These types of tags are powered by a received signal, may receive a coded signal, and they respond with a coded signal. They are obviously very low power devices and the transmit power is far below that of their interrogator. But the nagging fact remains that they are transponders. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings
RE: RFID tags
The ones we are using have a silicon die. When the tag receives a signal it activates the die and causes a change in impedance. The Transponder detects this change and reads the difference in the reflected signal. From what I have gathered this is still considered to be passive. Josh From: don_borow...@selinc.com [mailto:don_borow...@selinc.com] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 10:42 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: RFID tags I think the passive, dumb RF antitheft tags are simply 915 MHz dipoles with a diode at the center. The scanners pick up a harmonic generated when a 915 MHz field is applied. Don Borowski Schweitzer Engineering Labs Pullman, WA rehel...@mmm.com Sent by: owner-emc-pstc@ma To jordomo.ieee.org Joshua Wiseman jwise...@printronix.com cc 11/20/03 08:33 AM emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject RE: RFID tags Please respond to rehel...@mmm.com Not for sure. But it is my understanding that the passive tags are not subject to RTTE. We need someone who knows for sure to respond. Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === Joshua Wiseman JWiseman@printron To: rehel...@mmm.com ix.comrichwo...@tycoint.com cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 11/20/2003 09:52 owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org AM Subject: RE: RFID tags Bob, Do you know anything about the 915MHz passive tags? Josh From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 7:24 AM To: richwo...@tycoint.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: RFID tags === = The RFID tags (active tags) are subject to the RTTE Directive and the following standards for 13.56 MHz tags: 300 330-1 (General) 300 330-2 (Radio) 301 489-3 (EMC) Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === Are RFID tags (e.g., access control badges) considered to be transmitters/receivers and thus subject to the RTTE Directive? These types of tags are powered by a received signal, may receive a coded signal, and they respond with a coded signal. They are obviously very low power devices and the transmit power is far below that of their interrogator. But the nagging fact remains that they are transponders. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail
RE: RFID tags
I think the passive, dumb RF antitheft tags are simply 915 MHz dipoles with a diode at the center. The scanners pick up a harmonic generated when a 915 MHz field is applied. Don Borowski Schweitzer Engineering Labs Pullman, WA rehel...@mmm.com Sent by: owner-emc-pstc@ma To jordomo.ieee.org Joshua Wiseman jwise...@printronix.com cc 11/20/03 08:33 AM emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject RE: RFID tags Please respond to rehel...@mmm.com Not for sure. But it is my understanding that the passive tags are not subject to RTTE. We need someone who knows for sure to respond. Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === Joshua Wiseman JWiseman@printron To: rehel...@mmm.com ix.comrichwo...@tycoint.com cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 11/20/2003 09:52 owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org AM Subject: RE: RFID tags Bob, Do you know anything about the 915MHz passive tags? Josh From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 7:24 AM To: richwo...@tycoint.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: RFID tags === = The RFID tags (active tags) are subject to the RTTE Directive and the following standards for 13.56 MHz tags: 300 330-1 (General) 300 330-2 (Radio) 301 489-3 (EMC) Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === Are RFID tags (e.g., access control badges) considered to be transmitters/receivers and thus subject to the RTTE Directive? These types of tags are powered by a received signal, may receive a coded signal, and they respond with a coded signal. They are obviously very low power devices and the transmit power is far below that of their interrogator. But the nagging fact remains that they are transponders. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: RFID tags
Well, that is the key reason for my question. I can find no means for distinguishing between passive and active tags in regards to the RTTE Directive or the ETSI standards. It seems to me that all tags fall under the RTTE Directive. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 11:34 AM To: Joshua Wiseman Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: RFID tags Not for sure. But it is my understanding that the passive tags are not subject to RTTE. We need someone who knows for sure to respond. Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === Joshua Wiseman JWiseman@printron To: rehel...@mmm.com ix.comrichwo...@tycoint.com cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 11/20/2003 09:52 owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org AM Subject: RE: RFID tags Bob, Do you know anything about the 915MHz passive tags? Josh From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 7:24 AM To: richwo...@tycoint.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: RFID tags = The RFID tags (active tags) are subject to the RTTE Directive and the following standards for 13.56 MHz tags: 300 330-1 (General) 300 330-2 (Radio) 301 489-3 (EMC) Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === Are RFID tags (e.g., access control badges) considered to be transmitters/receivers and thus subject to the RTTE Directive? These types of tags are powered by a received signal, may receive a coded signal, and they respond with a coded signal. They are obviously very low power devices and the transmit power is far below that of their interrogator. But the nagging fact remains that they are transponders. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: RFID tags
Bob, Do you know anything about the 915MHz passive tags? Josh From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 7:24 AM To: richwo...@tycoint.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: RFID tags The RFID tags (active tags) are subject to the RTTE Directive and the following standards for 13.56 MHz tags: 300 330-1 (General) 300 330-2 (Radio) 301 489-1 (EMC) Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === richwo...@tycoint.com Sent by: To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org owner-emc-pstc@majordo cc: mo.ieee.org Subject: RFID tags 11/20/2003 08:36 AM Please respond to richwoods Are RFID tags (e.g., access control badges) considered to be transmitters/receivers and thus subject to the RTTE Directive? These types of tags are powered by a received signal, may receive a coded signal, and they respond with a coded signal. They are obviously very low power devices and the transmit power is far below that of their interrogator. But the nagging fact remains that they are transponders. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: RFID tags
The RFID tags (active tags) are subject to the RTTE Directive and the following standards for 13.56 MHz tags: 300 330-1 (General) 300 330-2 (Radio) 301 489-1 (EMC) Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === richwo...@tycoint.com Sent by: To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org owner-emc-pstc@majordo cc: mo.ieee.org Subject: RFID tags 11/20/2003 08:36 AM Please respond to richwoods Are RFID tags (e.g., access control badges) considered to be transmitters/receivers and thus subject to the RTTE Directive? These types of tags are powered by a received signal, may receive a coded signal, and they respond with a coded signal. They are obviously very low power devices and the transmit power is far below that of their interrogator. But the nagging fact remains that they are transponders. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
