Re: [PSES] Automotive Requirement for Radiated Immunity
Thanks to all who responded on this topic! Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Automotive Requirement for Radiated Immunity
This is what has been on some of my specs. CISPR25 ISO11452 ISO10605/EN50498 ISO7637 SAEJ1113 Arcing immunity during Brian's Wire-Pull Test with foot. There are also parts of Mil-Stds and DEF STAN59-41 that apply to land vehicles. And if this is dead link, let me know and will send: www.ets-lindgren.com/pdf/AutomotiveComponentEMCTesting.pdf Will EMC standards still apply as vehicle speed approaches C? Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Ken Javor Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 12:56 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Automotive Requirement for Radiated Immunity All, Could someone please reference what present industry (not company) standards cover the subject requirement both at the equipment and vehicle level? Thank you, Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Automotive Requirement for Radiated Immunity
In message cd63a0fd.3e3ea%ken.ja...@emccompliance.com, dated Mon, 11 Mar 2013, Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com writes: Could someone please reference what present industry (not company) standards cover the subject requirement both at the equipment and vehicle level? There is CISPR 12, but for most types of vehicle there is an ISO standard whose number I do not know. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like DNA found in chicken and turkey meals John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Automotive Requirement for Radiated Immunity
It depends a little on what you mean by vehicle. Offhand for product family standards you have: ISO EN 14982 - Ag and Forestry equipment EN 13309 - Construction Machinery ISO 13776 - Earth Moving Machinery EN 12895 - Industrial Trucks As well as the automotive directives(2004/104/EC and UN ECE R10) and ag directive(2009/64/EC). All except 12895 refer to base ISO test standards. ISO 7637-2 for DC power transients ISO 11451/11452 series for RF immunity testing Emissions is covered by CISPR 12 or CISPR 25:2002 - note this is 2nd edition, and not 3rd For the US, there are SAE standards that cover automotive testing. The SAE J1113 series covers nearly all tests you might see for electronic sub assemblies, from transients, to power line E and H field, to RF immunity at 18 GHz. Then more product family standard oriented SAE standards - J1455 for electronics in heavy duty vehicles, J551 for full vehicles and boats, etc. Thanks, David Schaefer Senior EMC Engineer TÜV SÜD America Inc Office: 651 638 0251 Cell: 612 578 6038 Fax: 651 638 0285 -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 2:56 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Automotive Requirement for Radiated Immunity All, Could someone please reference what present industry (not company) standards cover the subject requirement both at the equipment and vehicle level? Thank you, Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Automotive Requirement for Radiated Immunity
In message 7bfc84f269b54346bc340867b3d7f...@tamuracorp.com, dated Mon, 11 Mar 2013, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com writes: CISPR25 I forgot that one. There is also IEC/PAS 62437 ed1.0 (2005-09) Radio disturbance characteristics for the protection of receivers used on board vehicles, boats, and on devices - Limits and methods of measurement - Specifications for active antennas -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like DNA found in chicken and turkey meals John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Automotive Requirement for Radiated Immunity
Good point, as the UN regulation R10 can be a major 'gateway' for automotive EMC via the VCA report. The big demarcation for automotive is if your box is considered non-control ESA. CISPR12 does not address immunity, and is intended to ensure radio reception. My original answer provide conductd and ESD immunity standards because, wait for it, have found that some ESD and conducted events on a wire harness can cause other stuff to radiate into the EUT. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Schaefer, David Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 1:54 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Automotive Requirement for Radiated Immunity It depends a little on what you mean by vehicle. Offhand for product family standards you have: ISO EN 14982 - Ag and Forestry equipment EN 13309 - Construction Machinery ISO 13776 - Earth Moving Machinery EN 12895 - Industrial Trucks As well as the automotive directives(2004/104/EC and UN ECE R10) and ag directive(2009/64/EC). All except 12895 refer to base ISO test standards. ISO 7637-2 for DC power transients ISO 11451/11452 series for RF immunity testing Emissions is covered by CISPR 12 or CISPR 25:2002 - note this is 2nd edition, and not 3rd For the US, there are SAE standards that cover automotive testing. The SAE J1113 series covers nearly all tests you might see for electronic sub assemblies, from transients, to power line E and H field, to RF immunity at 18 GHz. Then more product family standard oriented SAE standards - J1455 for electronics in heavy duty vehicles, J551 for full vehicles and boats, etc. Thanks, David Schaefer Senior EMC Engineer TÜV SÜD America Inc Office: 651 638 0251 Cell: 612 578 6038 Fax: 651 638 0285 -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 2:56 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Automotive Requirement for Radiated Immunity All, Could someone please reference what present industry (not company) standards cover the subject requirement both at the equipment and vehicle level? Thank you, Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Automotive Requirement for Radiated Immunity
For automotive vehicles you have the following: ISO 11451 Series for Vehicle Immunity. ISO 11452 Series for Component Immunity ISO 7637 Series for Component Transient Immunity/Emissions CISPR 12 Off Board Radiated Emissions CISPR 25 On Board Radiated Emissions (both Component and Vehicle) ISO 10605 ESD (Component and Vehicle) ISO 16750 Series for Component Electrical Those are the main International Specifications. SAE Series is mainly photocopy of international standards now and ECE R10 is for Vehicle Homologation and simply references the documents above. I am on all the various committees publishing these standards, a US Delegate to CISPR/ISO so if anyone has any questions let me know. Thank you. Rob Kado Manager Sr Technical Specialist Electromagnetic Compatibility Chrysler 800 Chrysler Drive CIMS 481-47-20 Auburn Hills, MI 48326 (248) 467-0639 Sent from my Blackberry Wireless - Original Message - From: Schaefer, David [mailto:dschae...@tuvam.com] Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 08:54 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org Subject: RE: Automotive Requirement for Radiated Immunity It depends a little on what you mean by vehicle. Offhand for product family standards you have: ISO EN 14982 - Ag and Forestry equipment EN 13309 - Construction Machinery ISO 13776 - Earth Moving Machinery EN 12895 - Industrial Trucks As well as the automotive directives(2004/104/EC and UN ECE R10) and ag directive(2009/64/EC). All except 12895 refer to base ISO test standards. ISO 7637-2 for DC power transients ISO 11451/11452 series for RF immunity testing Emissions is covered by CISPR 12 or CISPR 25:2002 - note this is 2nd edition, and not 3rd For the US, there are SAE standards that cover automotive testing. The SAE J1113 series covers nearly all tests you might see for electronic sub assemblies, from transients, to power line E and H field, to RF immunity at 18 GHz. Then more product family standard oriented SAE standards - J1455 for electronics in heavy duty vehicles, J551 for full vehicles and boats, etc. Thanks, David Schaefer Senior EMC Engineer TÜV SÜD America Inc Office: 651 638 0251 Cell: 612 578 6038 Fax: 651 638 0285 -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 2:56 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Automotive Requirement for Radiated Immunity All, Could someone please reference what present industry (not company) standards cover the subject requirement both at the equipment and vehicle level? Thank you, Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions:
