Re: [PSES] DMRN for 4 wires (EMC)

2012-06-17 Thread Ken Javor 
Mark Nave of EMC Services patented a DMRN based totally on resistors ­ no
transformers - trade-named LISN MATE, back in the late 1980s. If memory
serves, there was a three phase variant as well as the more common
three-port devices that connected to a pair of LISNs and the EMI receiver.

Later on he also designed a CMRN, trade-named LISN MARK, which was based on
resistors and a transformer with flat response from 10 kHz to 30 MHz, again
if memory serves.  EMC Compliance has samples of each, as well as a
switchable cm/dm injection network based on the same principles.

Today, FCC (Fischer Custom Communications) offers a device based on the
original EMC Services technology.
  
Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



From: "ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com"

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:05:35 -0700
To: 
Subject: Re:   DMRN for 4 wires  (EMC)


A DMRN (Differential-Mode Reject Network) works well for 2-wires, but has
anyone tried for 4 wires?  I suppose a common-mode transformer with a
bandwidth up to 30MHz would do.

Any suggestions from the RF gurus in the group?

___ 

Ralph McDiarmid  |  Schneider Electric   |  Solar Business  |   CANADA  |
Regulatory Compliance Engineering

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Re: [PSES] DMRN for 4 wires (EMC)

2012-06-15 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen 
Be careful to model right.

In DM mode the parasitic elements in a DM coil are in parallel,

in anti-parallel (CM) configuration they are in series.

The ratio between induction and stray inductance is not more then

100:1 in most CM coil  so 100:2 in DM mode This severely limits the usable 
frequency range.

The stray inductance remains in series with the DM signal.

 

Gert

 

Van: ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com 
[mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com] 
Verzonden: vrijdag 15 juni 2012 19:29
Aan: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
CC: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Onderwerp: RE: DMRN for 4 wires (EMC)

 


Thanks Gert.   We were thinking 4-wire LISN  (phase A,B,C and Neutral)   Your 
idea of two sets could work; I'd likely simulate on SPICE, then arrange a 
breadboard if those results looked promising.
___ 

Ralph McDiarmid  |   Schneider Electric   |  Solar Business  |   CANADA  |   
Regulatory Compliance Engineering 




From: 

"ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen"  

To: 

,  

Date: 

06/15/2012 02:04 AM 

Subject: 

RE: DMRN for 4 wires  (EMC)

 






Just use 2 sets of  2 anti parallel  CM coils  and couple the common via a 
third to ground (I suppose). 
  
  
I do not know your specific application, but in general DM signals 
come in paired sets of 2…… 
  
The only application I know where DM is over 4 wires, 
is a phantom signal in phone lines. 
  
Gert 
  
  
Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org  ] 
Namens ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com
Verzonden: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 7:06 PM
Aan: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Onderwerp: Re: DMRN for 4 wires (EMC) 
  

A DMRN (Differential-Mode Reject Network) works well for 2-wires, but has 
anyone tried for 4 wires?  I suppose a common-mode transformer with a bandwidth 
up to 30MHz would do. 

Any suggestions from the RF gurus in the group?
___ 

Ralph McDiarmid  |   Schneider Electric   |  Solar Business  |   CANADA  |   
Regulatory Compliance Engineering 

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Re: [PSES] DMRN for 4 wires (EMC)

2012-06-15 Thread Ralph . McDiarmid 
Thanks Gert.   We were thinking 4-wire LISN  (phase A,B,C and Neutral) 
Your idea of two sets could work; I'd likely simulate on SPICE, then 
arrange a breadboard if those results looked promising.
___ 


Ralph McDiarmid  |   Schneider Electric   |  Solar Business  |   CANADA  | 
  Regulatory Compliance Engineering 




From:
"ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen" 
To:
, 
Date:
06/15/2012 02:04 AM
Subject:
RE: DMRN for 4 wires  (EMC)



Just use 2 sets of  2 anti parallel  CM coils  and couple the common via a 
third to ground (I suppose).
 
 
I do not know your specific application, but in general DM signals
come in paired sets of 2……
 
The only application I know where DM is over 4 wires,
is a phantom signal in phone lines.
 
Gert
 
 
Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens 
ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com
Verzonden: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 7:06 PM
Aan: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Onderwerp: Re: DMRN for 4 wires (EMC)
 

A DMRN (Differential-Mode Reject Network) works well for 2-wires, but has 
anyone tried for 4 wires?  I suppose a common-mode transformer with a 
bandwidth up to 30MHz would do. 

Any suggestions from the RF gurus in the group?
___ 


Ralph McDiarmid  |   Schneider Electric   |  Solar Business  |   CANADA  | 
  Regulatory Compliance Engineering 

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Re: [PSES] DMRN for 4 wires (EMC)

2012-06-15 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen 
Just use 2 sets of  2 anti parallel  CM coils  and couple the common via
a third to ground (I suppose).

 

 

I do not know your specific application, but in general DM signals

come in paired sets of 2..

 

The only application I know where DM is over 4 wires,

is a phantom signal in phone lines.

 

Gert

 

 

Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens
ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com
Verzonden: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 7:06 PM
Aan: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Onderwerp: Re: DMRN for 4 wires (EMC)

 


A DMRN (Differential-Mode Reject Network) works well for 2-wires, but
has anyone tried for 4 wires?  I suppose a common-mode transformer with
a bandwidth up to 30MHz would do. 

Any suggestions from the RF gurus in the group?

___ 

Ralph McDiarmid  |   Schneider Electric   |  Solar Business  |   CANADA
|   Regulatory Compliance Engineering 

-


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Re: [PSES] DMRN for 4 wires (EMC)

2012-06-14 Thread Ralph . McDiarmid 
A DMRN (Differential-Mode Reject Network) works well for 2-wires, but has 
anyone tried for 4 wires?  I suppose a common-mode transformer with a 
bandwidth up to 30MHz would do.

Any suggestions from the RF gurus in the group?
___ 


Ralph McDiarmid  |   Schneider Electric   |  Solar Business  |   CANADA  | 
  Regulatory Compliance Engineering 


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