RE: Arcing & Sparking

[drcuthb...@micron.com]

An arc is more than just a plasma discharge. An arc is when the current
density is quite high and the gas goes from "abnormal glow discharge" into the
arc region. 

  Dave Cuthbert


From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 1:33 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: Arcing & Sparking



I read in !emc-pstc that Peter L. Tarver 
wrote (in )
about 'Arcing & Sparking' on Mon, 22 Sep 2003:
>I have always related arcing to having end-points: having at least two 
>electrodes and involving electrical conduction.
>
>Arc \Arc\ ([aum]rk), v. i. [imp. & p. p. {Arcked} ([aum]rkt); p. pr. & 
>vb. n. {Arcking}.] (Elec.) To form a voltaic arc, as an electrical 
>current in a broken  or disconnected circuit.
>
>
>
>Sparking, I have always related to high temperature ejecta which may or 
>may not be related to electrical conduction.
>
>Spark \Spark\, v. i. (Elec.) To produce, or give off, sparks, as a 
>dynamo at the  commutator when revolving under the collecting brushes.
>
>Spark \Spark\, n. [OE. sparke, AS. spearca; akin to D. spark, sperk; cf. 
>Icel. spraka to crackle, Lith. sprag["e]ti, Gr. ? a bursting with a 
>noise, Skr. sph?rj to crackle, to thunder. Cf. {Speak}.] 1. A small 
>particle of fire or ignited substance which is emitted by a body in 
>combustion.

Yes. An arc that persists is a 'sustained arc'. It needs a control
mechanism to sustain it.

When the spark speaks, the arc harks.(;-)
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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RE: Arcing & Sparking

[drcuthb...@micron.com]

Jim,
this should be interesting. I define an "arc" as a plasma discharge. The
charge flow is through ionized gas. Now when I think of a "spark" I think of
hot metal bits. An example is when you "spark" jumper cables. Hot bits of
metal are flying off.

   Dave Cuthbert
   Micron Technology


From: Speakman, Jim [mailto:jim.speak...@uk.thalesgroup.com]
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 9:32 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Arcing & Sparking



Fellow Listers

At a recent equipment design review, a discussion on arcing and sparking
indicated a lack of definitive knowledge of the difference between an 'arc'
and a 'spark'.

Is an 'arc', basically just a long 'spark'.  If so, at what point
(precisely) does a 'spark' become an 'arc'?

Have I got it all wrong?  Are they 'something else'.

Can anyone enlighten my darkness?

__
Jim Speakman
(Design Safety Representative (Southern Sites)

Thales Defence Ltd
Thales Sensors 
Manor Royal
Crawley
West Sussex
RH10 9PZ


> * Tel:+44(0)1293 644911
> * Mob:+44(0)7968 529439
> *  Fax :  +44(0)1293 644194
> *e-mail   jim.speak...@uk.thalesgroup.com
> 
__
This e-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only.  If a
transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, please notify us on
+44(0)1293 644911 and delete it and all copies from your system.  You should
not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in
error.



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RE: Arcing & Sparking

[Price, Ed]

>-Original Message- 
>From: Ralph McDiarmid [ mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@xantrex.com] 
>Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:12 AM 
>To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 
>Subject: RE: Arcing & Sparking 
> 
> 
> 
>I suggest that an arc is something continuous and producing light or 
>illumination.  A spark is something abrupt and short lived. 
> 
>Ralph McDiarmid, AScT 
>Compliance Engineering Group 
>Xantrex Technology Inc. 



I think that the main difference between an electrical arc and an electrical
spark is the sense of time. 

An Arc is a Spark that decided to park. 


Ed 


Ed Price 
ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN 
NARTE Certified EMC Engineer & Technician 
Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab 
Cubic Defense Systems 
San Diego, CA  USA 
858-505-2780  (Voice) 
858-505-1583  (Fax) 
Military & Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty 

Re: Arcing & Sparking

[John Woodgate]

I read in !emc-pstc that Peter L. Tarver 
wrote (in )
about 'Arcing & Sparking' on Mon, 22 Sep 2003:
>I have always related arcing to having end-points: having at least two 
>electrodes and involving electrical conduction.
>
>Arc \Arc\ ([aum]rk), v. i. [imp. & p. p. {Arcked} ([aum]rkt); p. pr. & 
>vb. n. {Arcking}.] (Elec.) To form a voltaic arc, as an electrical 
>current in a broken  or disconnected circuit.
>
>
>
>Sparking, I have always related to high temperature ejecta which may or 
>may not be related to electrical conduction.
>
>Spark \Spark\, v. i. (Elec.) To produce, or give off, sparks, as a 
>dynamo at the  commutator when revolving under the collecting brushes.
>
>Spark \Spark\, n. [OE. sparke, AS. spearca; akin to D. spark, sperk; cf. 
>Icel. spraka to crackle, Lith. sprag["e]ti, Gr. ? a bursting with a 
>noise, Skr. sph?rj to crackle, to thunder. Cf. {Speak}.] 1. A small 
>particle of fire or ignited substance which is emitted by a body in 
>combustion.

Yes. An arc that persists is a 'sustained arc'. It needs a control
mechanism to sustain it.

When the spark speaks, the arc harks.(;-)
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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RE: Arcing & Sparking

[Brian Epstein]

My understanding is that a spark is the result of an electric discharge
through ionized air.  An arc actually contains vaporized metal from the
contacts and has phenomena like flash and blast that are not associated with
sparks.

Best regards,
Brian Epstein
Sr Regulatory Compliance Engineer
Veeco Instruments
112 Robin Hill Rd
Santa Barbara CA 93117
805-967-2700 x2315
brian.epst...@veeco.com  



From: Speakman, Jim [mailto:jim.speak...@uk.thalesgroup.com]
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 8:32 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Arcing & Sparking



Fellow Listers

At a recent equipment design review, a discussion on arcing and sparking
indicated a lack of definitive knowledge of the difference between an 'arc'
and a 'spark'.

Is an 'arc', basically just a long 'spark'.  If so, at what point
(precisely) does a 'spark' become an 'arc'?

Have I got it all wrong?  Are they 'something else'.

Can anyone enlighten my darkness?

__
Jim Speakman
(Design Safety Representative (Southern Sites)

Thales Defence Ltd
Thales Sensors 
Manor Royal
Crawley
West Sussex
RH10 9PZ


> * Tel:+44(0)1293 644911
> * Mob:+44(0)7968 529439
> *  Fax :  +44(0)1293 644194
> *e-mail   jim.speak...@uk.thalesgroup.com
> 
__
This e-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only.  If a
transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, please notify us on
+44(0)1293 644911 and delete it and all copies from your system.  You should
not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in
error.



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Re: Arcing & Sparking

[hansm]

Essentially, an arc is sustainable and a spark is not. A spark is the onset
of an arc. Whether it becomes sustainable or not, has to do with the supply
of charges and electric field potential.

An arc, once formed, becomes very low in resistance and impedance akin to a
metal conductor. The forming process of an arc includes a transition phase
where in the formative phase, the dendrite type corona discharges begin to
colapse into a single channel due to the collective magnetic fields. This
self-induced magnetic field is large enough to contain it from expanding
radially.

Hans Mellberg
Engineering Manager
BACL
230 Commercial Street
Sunnyvale CA 94085 USA
408-732-9162 x38
408-732-9164 fax


- Original Message - 
From: "Speakman, Jim" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 8:32 AM
Subject: Arcing & Sparking


>
> Fellow Listers
>
> At a recent equipment design review, a discussion on arcing and sparking
> indicated a lack of definitive knowledge of the difference between an
'arc'
> and a 'spark'.
>
> Is an 'arc', basically just a long 'spark'.  If so, at what point
> (precisely) does a 'spark' become an 'arc'?
>
> Have I got it all wrong?  Are they 'something else'.
>
> Can anyone enlighten my darkness?
>
> __
> Jim Speakman
> (Design Safety Representative (Southern Sites)
>
> Thales Defence Ltd
> Thales Sensors
> Manor Royal
> Crawley
> West Sussex
> RH10 9PZ
>
>
> > * Tel: +44(0)1293 644911
> > * Mob: +44(0)7968 529439
> > *  Fax : +44(0)1293 644194
> > *e-mail jim.speak...@uk.thalesgroup.com
> >
> __
> This e-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only.  If
a
> transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, please notify us on
> +44(0)1293 644911 and delete it and all copies from your system.  You
should
> not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in
> error.
>
>
> ---
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
>
> Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
>
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> Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line.
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> http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
>



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RE: Arcing & Sparking

[Ralph McDiarmid]

I suggest that an arc is something continuous and producing light or
illumination.  A spark is something abrupt and short lived.

Ralph McDiarmid, AScT 
Compliance Engineering Group
Xantrex Technology Inc.



From: Speakman, Jim [mailto:jim.speak...@uk.thalesgroup.com] 
Sent: September 22, 2003 8:32 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Arcing & Sparking



Fellow Listers

At a recent equipment design review, a discussion on arcing and sparking
indicated a lack of definitive knowledge of the difference between an 'arc'
and a 'spark'.

Is an 'arc', basically just a long 'spark'.  If so, at what point
(precisely) does a 'spark' become an 'arc'?

Have I got it all wrong?  Are they 'something else'.

Can anyone enlighten my darkness?

__
Jim Speakman
(Design Safety Representative (Southern Sites)

Thales Defence Ltd
Thales Sensors 
Manor Royal
Crawley
West Sussex
RH10 9PZ


> * Tel:+44(0)1293 644911
> * Mob:+44(0)7968 529439
> *  Fax :  +44(0)1293 644194
> *e-mail   jim.speak...@uk.thalesgroup.com
> 
__
This e-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only.  If a
transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, please notify us on
+44(0)1293 644911 and delete it and all copies from your system.  You 
+should
not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in
error.



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RE: Arcing & Sparking

[Peter L. Tarver]

I have always related arcing to having end-points: having at
least two electrodes and involving electrical conduction.

Arc \Arc\ ([aum]rk), v. i. [imp. & p. p. {Arcked}
([aum]rkt); p. pr. & vb. n. {Arcking}.] (Elec.) To form a
voltaic arc, as an electrical current in a broken  or
disconnected circuit.



Sparking, I have always related to high temperature ejecta
which may or may not be related to electrical conduction.

Spark \Spark\, v. i. (Elec.) To produce, or give off,
sparks, as a dynamo at the  commutator when revolving under
the collecting brushes.

Spark \Spark\, n. [OE. sparke, AS. spearca; akin to D.
spark, sperk; cf. Icel. spraka to crackle, Lith.
sprag["e]ti, Gr. ? a bursting with a noise, Skr. sph?rj to
crackle, to thunder. Cf. {Speak}.] 1. A small particle of
fire or ignited substance which is emitted by a body in
combustion.


Regards,

Peter L. Tarver, PE
Product Safety Manager
Homologation Services
Sanmina-SCI Corp.
San Jose, CA
peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com


> From: Fred Townsend
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 9:09 AM
>
> I have never seen a really definitive statement
> about arcs and sparks however I
> tend to think of sparks as transient ( as in
> spark plugs) and arcs as sustained
> (as in arc lamps). Does that make sense?
>
> Fred Townsend
>
> "Speakman, Jim" wrote:
>
> > At a recent equipment design review, a
> discussion on arcing and sparking
> > indicated a lack of definitive knowledge of the
> difference between an 'arc'
> > and a 'spark'.
> >



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Re: Arcing & Sparking

[Ken Javor]

This is totally my interpretation, not meant to be be authoritative.  To me
a spark is an incandescent piece of matter, which can be incandescent for
any number of reasons, including but hardly limited to electrical - I have a
curtain in front of my fireplace to keep sparks from flying out and igniting
the rug.  But an arc is struck between two points of different electrical
potential, when the gradient is sufficient to strip electrons off atoms
between the two points and sufficient current flows to cause incandescence.


> From: "Speakman, Jim" 
> Reply-To: "Speakman, Jim" 
> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:32:09 +0100
> To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
> Subject: Arcing & Sparking
> 
> 
> Fellow Listers
> 
> At a recent equipment design review, a discussion on arcing and sparking
> indicated a lack of definitive knowledge of the difference between an 'arc'
> and a 'spark'.
> 
> Is an 'arc', basically just a long 'spark'.  If so, at what point
> (precisely) does a 'spark' become an 'arc'?
> 
> Have I got it all wrong?  Are they 'something else'.
> 
> Can anyone enlighten my darkness?
> 
> __
> Jim Speakman
> (Design Safety Representative (Southern Sites)
> 
> Thales Defence Ltd
> Thales Sensors 
> Manor Royal
> Crawley
> West Sussex
> RH10 9PZ
> 
> 
>> * Tel:+44(0)1293 644911
>> * Mob:+44(0)7968 529439
>> *  Fax :+44(0)1293 644194
>> *e-mailjim.speak...@uk.thalesgroup.com
>> 
> __
> This e-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only.  If a
> transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, please notify us on
> +44(0)1293 644911 and delete it and all copies from your system.  You should
> not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in
> error.
> 
> 
> ---
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
> 
> Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
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> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
> 



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Re: Arcing & Sparking

[Fred Townsend]

I have never seen a really definitive statement about arcs and sparks however I
tend to think of sparks as transient ( as in spark plugs) and arcs as sustained
(as in arc lamps). Does that make sense?

Fred Townsend

"Speakman, Jim" wrote:

> Fellow Listers
>
> At a recent equipment design review, a discussion on arcing and sparking
> indicated a lack of definitive knowledge of the difference between an 'arc'
> and a 'spark'.
>
> Is an 'arc', basically just a long 'spark'.  If so, at what point
> (precisely) does a 'spark' become an 'arc'?
>
> Have I got it all wrong?  Are they 'something else'.
>
> Can anyone enlighten my darkness?
>
> __
> Jim Speakman
> (Design Safety Representative (Southern Sites)
>
> Thales Defence Ltd
> Thales Sensors
> Manor Royal
> Crawley
> West Sussex
> RH10 9PZ
>
> > * Tel:+44(0)1293 644911
> > * Mob:+44(0)7968 529439
> > *  Fax :  +44(0)1293 644194
> > *e-mail   jim.speak...@uk.thalesgroup.com
> >
> __
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