Re: EN60065 mains switches
I read in !emc-pstc that Tyra, John john_t...@bose.com wrote (in 418fbd441c22d5118d860003470d43160543e...@cupid.bose.com) about 'EN60065 mains switches' on Thu, 19 Sep 2002: Here is another issue where you will get conflicting opinions but I believe that just because it is notified in the OJ does not mean every country will adopt it at the same time. You need to be careful as there are some countries still working with the 5th edition so if you have a CB certificate and report done by a NCB it may not be accepted in a country which has not adopted that particular version of the standard..This is a particular concern with countries outside the EU, i.e. AsiaAny other opinions? Notification causes immediate adoption in all EU countries and the former EFTA countries simultaneously. Other countries may indeed not adopt the standard at that time. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: EN60065 mains switches
Here is another issue where you will get conflicting opinions but I believe that just because it is notified in the OJ does not mean every country will adopt it at the same time. You need to be careful as there are some countries still working with the 5th edition so if you have a CB certificate and report done by a NCB it may not be accepted in a country which has not adopted that particular version of the standard..This is a particular concern with countries outside the EU, i.e. AsiaAny other opinions? -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 4:49 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: EN60065 mains switches I read in !emc-pstc that Tyra, John john_t...@bose.com wrote (in 418fbd441c22d5118d860003470d43160543e...@cupid.bose.com) about 'EN60065 mains switches' on Wed, 18 Sep 2002: Also be aware that the published 7th edition of IEC60065 eliminates the need for a switch which is in line with the current edition of UL6500. Unfortunately it will probably be several years before all the countries adopt this edition of the standard It is already adopted as EN 60065:2002. If it hasn't already been 'notified' in the Official Journal, it soon will be. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: EN60065 mains switches
I read in !emc-pstc that Colgan, Chris chris.col...@tagmclaren.com wrote (in AE0F4BD08FEAD211895900805FE67B1F01425A8B@CAT) about 'EN60065 mains switches' on Thu, 19 Sep 2002: I'm all for using the 7th edition but it is not mentioned in the LVD List of Harmonised Standards yet. Any idea when it will be? No, but I would have expected to have heard already if there was any hold-up on technical grounds. It has happened before that notification has been delayed simply due to a backlog in the Commission's administration. They shut down for August, I believe. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: EN60065 mains switches
I'm all for using the 7th edition but it is not mentioned in the LVD List of Harmonised Standards yet. Any idea when it will be? Cheers Chris -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [SMTP:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 9:47 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: EN60065 mains switches I read in !emc-pstc that Colgan, Chris chris.col...@tagmclaren.com wrote (in AE0F4BD08FEAD211895900805FE67B1F01425A89@CAT) about 'EN60065 mains switches' on Wed, 18 Sep 2002: I know that engineers familiar with EN60065 are rarer than hen's teeth but maybe someone out there can help me... Clause 14.6.2 allows for no mains switch to be fitted if the product can be switched on or off or both automatically. Do you think that an audio amplifier that utilises an input signal detect circuit to automatically switch on fulfils the requirements of this clause? You should be looking at the 2002 edition, in which 14.6.2 is not about that. This 14.6 gets re-hashed in every edition, so you must use the up- to-date edition. In this case, the relevant text is in 8.9.1! An all- pole disconnect device is required, but it can be the mains plug or appliance coupler. So your audio amplifier is quite OK - to the 2002 edition. Do you *really* want to know about how it would fare under the previous edition? (;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. Important Note: Any typographical, clerical or other error in this communication is subject to correction without any liability on the part of TAG McLaren Audio Limited. Any orders placed shall be subject to acceptance by TAG McLaren Audio Limited on its standard terms and conditions of sale which shall govern the contract for the sale and purchase of the products ordered to the exclusion of any other terms and conditions. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, 11 Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: EN60065 mains switches
I read in !emc-pstc that Tyra, John john_t...@bose.com wrote (in 418fbd441c22d5118d860003470d43160543e...@cupid.bose.com) about 'EN60065 mains switches' on Wed, 18 Sep 2002: Also be aware that the published 7th edition of IEC60065 eliminates the need for a switch which is in line with the current edition of UL6500. Unfortunately it will probably be several years before all the countries adopt this edition of the standard It is already adopted as EN 60065:2002. If it hasn't already been 'notified' in the Official Journal, it soon will be. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: EN60065 mains switches
I read in !emc-pstc that Colgan, Chris chris.col...@tagmclaren.com wrote (in AE0F4BD08FEAD211895900805FE67B1F01425A89@CAT) about 'EN60065 mains switches' on Wed, 18 Sep 2002: I know that engineers familiar with EN60065 are rarer than hen's teeth but maybe someone out there can help me... Clause 14.6.2 allows for no mains switch to be fitted if the product can be switched on or off or both automatically. Do you think that an audio amplifier that utilises an input signal detect circuit to automatically switch on fulfils the requirements of this clause? You should be looking at the 2002 edition, in which 14.6.2 is not about that. This 14.6 gets re-hashed in every edition, so you must use the up- to-date edition. In this case, the relevant text is in 8.9.1! An all- pole disconnect device is required, but it can be the mains plug or appliance coupler. So your audio amplifier is quite OK - to the 2002 edition. Do you *really* want to know about how it would fare under the previous edition? (;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: EN60065 mains switches
Hello Chris, We are going through the same issue here at Bose...A while back we received a ruling that this type of design did meet the intent of the standard from TUV and UL. CSA was a little more stringent in their interpretation. Based on my correspondence with CSA here is my take: 1. You do not need a switch if your product is switched off automatically either by a timer function or by an external signal provided your amp outputs are actually switched off and the product is not simply in standby mode. 2. Your product must not consume more then 15W when in the off mode (see the CSA excerpt below) under normal conditions and after a single fault condition. So if you use a single semiconductor to switch off your amp you would not meet the intent of the standard if your product draws more than 15W with the semiconductor shorted. This point is also clarified in the IEC60065 6th CENELEC OSM decisions from 7/2001 in sub-clause 14.6.2. Here is a short excerpt concerning IEC60065 sub-clause 14.6.2 I got from CSA on this issue: Irrespective of their power consumption means power consumption in the ON mode. If there is no manual OFF switch, it is permitted to have the product switched OFF automatically using a signal. Mute is not really OFF, but a STANDBY mode. The intent of the standard is reduce fire hazard by disconnecting the supply voltage from the circuitry in the OFF mode. Mute with Supply Voltage still connected to the output stage does not really satisfy this intent. Some other designs have used electronic switching of the MAINS or Secondary Supply to satisfy the OFF condition. Even if AUTOMATICALLY SWITCHED, the second paragraph of 14.6.2 applies to the OFF condition.(Less than 15W with single fault) Contact me if you want a copy of the OSM decisions. Please note that these decisions are only guidelines which were agreed upon by the various CENELC member Notified Bodies and do not legally change the Standard. I have no verification that these decisions would be accepted outside the EU, i.e. in Asia...etc... Also be aware that the published 7th edition of IEC60065 eliminates the need for a switch which is in line with the current edition of UL6500. Unfortunately it will probably be several years before all the countries adopt this edition of the standard Hope this helps as this is a tricky area to interpret regards, John Tyra Design Assurance Engineering, Product Safety Regulatory Manager Bose Corporation The Mountain, M.S.-450 Framingham, MA 01701-9168 508-766-1502 Phone 508-766-1145 Fax john_t...@bose.com -Original Message- From: Colgan, Chris [mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 4:48 AM To: 'Emc-Pstc' (E-mail) Subject: EN60065 mains switches Hello I know that engineers familiar with EN60065 are rarer than hen's teeth but maybe someone out there can help me... Clause 14.6.2 allows for no mains switch to be fitted if the product can be switched on or off or both automatically. Do you think that an audio amplifier that utilises an input signal detect circuit to automatically switch on fulfils the requirements of this clause? Thanks for any input Chris Colgan Compliance Engineer TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU *Tel: +44 (0)1480 415 627 *Fax: +44 (0)1480 52159 * Mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com * http://www.tagmclaren.com ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. Important Note: Any typographical, clerical or other error in this communication is subject to correction without any liability on the part of TAG McLaren Audio Limited. Any orders placed shall be subject to acceptance by TAG McLaren Audio Limited on its standard terms and conditions of sale which shall govern the contract for the sale and purchase of the products ordered to the exclusion of any other terms and conditions. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, 11 Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe
