Re: [Emc-users] Coffecup EDM
I investigated further and it seems to matter at which voltage level start of period start to count. As is now current is on during wait for ignition and hence this period may be elongenated with a lover voltage level. Low enough and on time will not start until a sparc happen. I actually think either ignition current of 10mA is to low or resistance in EDM fluid is to low. I should finnish of the protocol before running more: 1. Off and on times. Sparc extinguishing voltage. Start of period voltage. 2. Measure current and voltage. Count number of sparc and ionization events. Regards Nicklas Karlsson On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 18:15:03 -0700 dengvall wrote: > I've not played with EDM for quite a while. > 10 years so I've > forgotten most of what I knew. > I know of people that used hardware store lantern oil as EDM fluid. If > it sounds like frying bacon > you are in the right range. > Sounds (npi) like fun. :-) > > Dave > > On 06/19/2016 10:07 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote: > >> On 06/19/16 17:55, Nicklas Karlsson wrote: > >>> I tried to tune parameters manually but most of the time is spent either > >>> in short circuit or open circuit, > >> this is called 'hammering' > >> it actually works but for a poor reason. > >> if the tools is too far away, you are open > >> if the tool is too close, it is shorting > >> For a brief time in transit between these 2 states you DO achieve the > >> proper position > >> and you get _some_ sparks. > >> > >> the idea is to find the ideal position where sparks occur easily > >> yiu can find this if you can control the 'edm servo'. > > Then I now how it should look. I didn't expect something good with my Lego > > prototype without proper tuning and to low ignition voltage at the first > > run. > > > >> ... > > You provided exactly the information I needed, thanks! > > > > > > Regards Nicklas Karlsson > > > > > > -- > > What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and traffic > > patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols are > > consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow, > > J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity > > planning > > reports. http://sdm.link/zohomanageengine > > > > > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > -- > Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San > Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries > present their vision of the future. This family event has something for > everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. > http://sdm.link/attshape > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Coffecup EDM
Nicklas regarding 'start of period to count' there is a concept in EDM that was branded ISOpuls and more genericly iso-energetic it is a method concerning WHEN to begin the on-time count. to make each spark have same energy the duration of current flow must be equal so a circuit to detect the drop from OpenVoltage to DischargeVolatge is used to trigger the timer for on time. refer to the previous pdf to see when the 'back of the chair' falls to the 'seat of the chair' that is when the current begins to flow IF there is no back to the chair, there is a problem the oil is too conductive ( too thin[shorted/too close] or too dirty or too conductive ) IF there is no seat to the chair, there is NO vconduction and you are too far or the oil is too resistive tap water, de-ionized water, thin automotive oil (0-5-10W) and kerosene all work fine i used peanut oil once for a medical application where the fda claimed the oil based fluid contaminated the recast layer. you do use a fairly open voltage (60-80V=) so that will make the oil quality more important if you refer to the previous pdf files you will see the researchers BEGIN counting on-time when the voltage drops can you see any sparks? 10 ma at 150 was used in AGie L series generator for a decade, so you are not far off you can see sparks and hear what Dave Engvall talks about in this https://videobin.org/+8ku/bfq.html the white line below oil is sparks, not bubbles you could try kerosene ( easy to get, stinks and is flammable, tho i use it without fear ) i do not understand the 'spark extinguishing voltage' could you say this another way? the ratio of ignitions to attempts to ignite can be a measure of efficiency ( and an indication of the correctness and stability of the edm servo tracking ) regards TomP On 06/25/16 15:37, Nicklas Karlsson wrote: > I investigated further and it seems to matter at which voltage level start of > period start to count. As is now current is on during wait for ignition and > hence this period may be elongenated with a lover voltage level. Low enough > and on time will not start until a sparc happen. > > I actually think either ignition current of 10mA is to low or resistance in > EDM fluid is to low. > > I should finnish of the protocol before running more: >1. Off and on times. Sparc extinguishing voltage. Start of period voltage. >2. Measure current and voltage. Count number of sparc and ionization > events. > > > Regards Nicklas Karlsson > > > > On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 18:15:03 -0700 > dengvall wrote: > >> I've not played with EDM for quite a while. > 10 years so I've >> forgotten most of what I knew. >> I know of people that used hardware store lantern oil as EDM fluid. If >> it sounds like frying bacon >> you are in the right range. >> Sounds (npi) like fun. :-) >> >> Dave >> >> On 06/19/2016 10:07 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote: On 06/19/16 17:55, Nicklas Karlsson wrote: > I tried to tune parameters manually but most of the time is spent either > in short circuit or open circuit, this is called 'hammering' it actually works but for a poor reason. if the tools is too far away, you are open if the tool is too close, it is shorting For a brief time in transit between these 2 states you DO achieve the proper position and you get _some_ sparks. the idea is to find the ideal position where sparks occur easily yiu can find this if you can control the 'edm servo'. >>> Then I now how it should look. I didn't expect something good with my Lego >>> prototype without proper tuning and to low ignition voltage at the first >>> run. >>> ... >>> You provided exactly the information I needed, thanks! >>> >>> >>> Regards Nicklas Karlsson >>> >>> >>> -- >>> What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and traffic >>> patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols are >>> consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow, >>> J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity >>> planning >>> reports. http://sdm.link/zohomanageengine >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> Emc-users mailing list >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >> -- >> Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San >> Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries >> present their vision of the future. This family event has something for >> everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. >> http://sdm.link/attshape >> ___ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Unexpected move after Stop
I'm a bit confused what could cause unexpected move after pressing stop or pause->stop. Here is print screen what happened: https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/1X2RCHL7.jpg Recently I implemented manualtoolchange but the only thing I was modifying were subroutines ... not sure if there could be source of this issue? -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Unexpected move after Stop
Is this a non-trivial kinematics machine? I'm working on a machine that does something like this when switching between forward and inverse kinematics (or maybe the other way around). In my case it is caused by a slight error in my forward kinematics function. On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Tomaz T. wrote: > > > > I'm a bit confused what could cause unexpected move after pressing stop or > pause->stop. > Here is print screen what happened: > https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/1X2RCHL7.jpg > Recently I implemented manualtoolchange but the only thing I was modifying > were subroutines ... not sure if there could be source of this issue? > > > -- > Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San > Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries > present their vision of the future. This family event has something for > everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. > http://sdm.link/attshape > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Unexpected move after Stop
Yes I'm using 5axiskins (slightly modified) and till now I didn't noticed this kind of issues. > > Is this a non-trivial kinematics machine? > > I'm working on a machine that does something like this when switching > between forward and inverse kinematics (or maybe the other way around). In > my case it is caused by a slight error in my forward kinematics function. > -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Unexpected move after Stop
On 25 June 2016 at 19:20, Tomaz T. wrote: > Yes I'm using 5axiskins (slightly modified) and till now I didn't noticed > this kind of issues. I seem to recall that 5axiskins links to the tool-length offset, so a change in tool length might change the apparent position of the controlled point, which the servo loop will attempt to correct. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Coffecup EDM
Put a 1uF cap across your spark gap. This will allow you to test whether you have EDM function at all. Even a 10uF cap. It will mess with your control, but you can now get a handle on your fluid, and typical gap. Regards Roland On 25 June 2016 at 10:37, Nicklas Karlsson wrote: > I investigated further and it seems to matter at which voltage level start > of period start to count. As is now current is on during wait for ignition > and hence this period may be elongenated with a lover voltage level. Low > enough and on time will not start until a sparc happen. > > I actually think either ignition current of 10mA is to low or resistance > in EDM fluid is to low. > > I should finnish of the protocol before running more: > 1. Off and on times. Sparc extinguishing voltage. Start of period > voltage. > 2. Measure current and voltage. Count number of sparc and ionization > events. > > > Regards Nicklas Karlsson > > > > On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 18:15:03 -0700 > dengvall wrote: > > > I've not played with EDM for quite a while. > 10 years so I've > > forgotten most of what I knew. > > I know of people that used hardware store lantern oil as EDM fluid. If > > it sounds like frying bacon > > you are in the right range. > > Sounds (npi) like fun. :-) > > > > Dave > > > > On 06/19/2016 10:07 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote: > > >> On 06/19/16 17:55, Nicklas Karlsson wrote: > > >>> I tried to tune parameters manually but most of the time is spent > either in short circuit or open circuit, > > >> this is called 'hammering' > > >> it actually works but for a poor reason. > > >> if the tools is too far away, you are open > > >> if the tool is too close, it is shorting > > >> For a brief time in transit between these 2 states you DO achieve the > > >> proper position > > >> and you get _some_ sparks. > > >> > > >> the idea is to find the ideal position where sparks occur easily > > >> yiu can find this if you can control the 'edm servo'. > > > Then I now how it should look. I didn't expect something good with my > Lego prototype without proper tuning and to low ignition voltage at the > first run. > > > > > >> ... > > > You provided exactly the information I needed, thanks! > > > > > > > > > Regards Nicklas Karlsson > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and > traffic > > > patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and > protocols are > > > consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for > NetFlow, > > > J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity > planning > > > reports. http://sdm.link/zohomanageengine > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Emc-users mailing list > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > > -- > > Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San > > Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries > > present their vision of the future. This family event has something for > > everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. > > http://sdm.link/attshape > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > -- > Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San > Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries > present their vision of the future. This family event has something for > everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. > http://sdm.link/attshape > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Coffecup EDM
I have EDM function without doubt. There is however a difference if on time is started to count at 28 volt or lower there are sparcs but if it start at around 35.0 volt there are not much sparcs. Main current source is turned on during ignition and I suspect there are current flowing before on time counter is started, there is also possibility I got something wrong I checked voltage should be about right. I just added all parameters to protocol, think anyway or is it useful to measure ignition time? Regards Nicklas Karlsson On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 08:20:37 +0200 Roland Jollivet wrote: > Put a 1uF cap across your spark gap. This will allow you to test whether > you have EDM function at all. > Even a 10uF cap. It will mess with your control, but you can now get a > handle on your fluid, and typical gap. > > Regards > Roland > > > On 25 June 2016 at 10:37, Nicklas Karlsson > wrote: > > > I investigated further and it seems to matter at which voltage level start > > of period start to count. As is now current is on during wait for ignition > > and hence this period may be elongenated with a lover voltage level. Low > > enough and on time will not start until a sparc happen. > > > > I actually think either ignition current of 10mA is to low or resistance > > in EDM fluid is to low. > > > > I should finnish of the protocol before running more: > > 1. Off and on times. Sparc extinguishing voltage. Start of period > > voltage. > > 2. Measure current and voltage. Count number of sparc and ionization > > events. > > > > > > Regards Nicklas Karlsson > > > > > > > > On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 18:15:03 -0700 > > dengvall wrote: > > > > > I've not played with EDM for quite a while. > 10 years so I've > > > forgotten most of what I knew. > > > I know of people that used hardware store lantern oil as EDM fluid. If > > > it sounds like frying bacon > > > you are in the right range. > > > Sounds (npi) like fun. :-) > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > On 06/19/2016 10:07 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote: > > > >> On 06/19/16 17:55, Nicklas Karlsson wrote: > > > >>> I tried to tune parameters manually but most of the time is spent > > either in short circuit or open circuit, > > > >> this is called 'hammering' > > > >> it actually works but for a poor reason. > > > >> if the tools is too far away, you are open > > > >> if the tool is too close, it is shorting > > > >> For a brief time in transit between these 2 states you DO achieve the > > > >> proper position > > > >> and you get _some_ sparks. > > > >> > > > >> the idea is to find the ideal position where sparks occur easily > > > >> yiu can find this if you can control the 'edm servo'. > > > > Then I now how it should look. I didn't expect something good with my > > Lego prototype without proper tuning and to low ignition voltage at the > > first run. > > > > > > > >> ... > > > > You provided exactly the information I needed, thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards Nicklas Karlsson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and > > traffic > > > > patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and > > protocols are > > > > consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for > > NetFlow, > > > > J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity > > planning > > > > reports. http://sdm.link/zohomanageengine > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > Emc-users mailing list > > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > > > > > -- > > > Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San > > > Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries > > > present their vision of the future. This family event has something for > > > everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. > > > http://sdm.link/attshape > > > ___ > > > Emc-users mailing list > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > > > -- > > Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San > > Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries > > present their vision of the future. This family event has something for > > everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. > > http://sdm.link/attshape > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > -- > Attend Shape:
