Re: [Emc-users] Interp problems?

2017-06-28 Thread dave



On 06/26/2017 02:32 PM, dave wrote:



On 06/26/2017 01:46 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On 26 June 2017 at 21:03, dave  wrote:


"home"   carefully nestled between the - and + jog buttons.
Now you have me curious; not certain where you are headed.


Curious that you don't have a "home all" button, but where I was heading
was that if you had been using "touch off" to zero the axes on a machine
with NO_FORCE_HOMING configured then an incremental step towards one or
other soft limit is likely.

Is G53 moving?



Opps! Didn't think to check. Darned!
I suspect so. My standard end of program goes:
G53G0Z0
G53G0X0Y7.5 ( to move out of the way of the tool)
G54G90
M2

and IIRC X was considerable displaced in the + direction.

Lets put this all on hold and see how things shake out with a new 
encoder in place and hopefully
cooler temps. Tomorrow is supposed to be low 80's so about 10 degrees 
cooler. :-)


Dave


UPDATE:
Just installed a replacement 2500 ppr encoder and motion is solid 
and makes sense. Cut the
   same test pocket and it looks nice and doesn't shift X between z 
layers.


As for the zero shift it is OK for now; 100 degree weather due next 
week so between now and then
I need to get a decent cooling fan in place for testing if things go  
south again.


Thanks for all the thoughtful ideas and help. We'll see what warmer 
weather brings. Stay tuned.

Only hit 87 today.

Dave



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Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

2017-06-28 Thread Todd Zuercher
Yes, buildbot has old and new repos.  A lot of the really old stuff isn't 
posted on buildbots homepage, but it is still there.
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/dists/
For Lucid there are builds for 2.4 to the current 2.7 (support for 2.8+ has 
been dropped for it.)
Simularly there is even buildbot builds for Hardy (2.4-2.6)
Wheezy 2.4-Master
Jessie 2.6-Master (preempt-rt only)
Stretch 2.7-Master (preempt-rt only)
Once Linuxcnc drops kernel support they just stop building new versions, they 
don't delete the old repos (at least not yet).

- Original Message -
From: "Les Newell" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 2:52:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

Hi Todd,

Does buildbot go back to 10.04 times? I thought it was only for recent 
builds.


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Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

2017-06-28 Thread Les Newell

Hi Peter,

As far as I can tell the spikes are in the feedback velocity. It can be 
a little difficult to tell cause and effect.


Are you using identical hal files for the system with the 
spikes/without spikes?


When I built the 2.6.13 branch on the 2.7.9 ISO I only had to make some 
very minor changes to the hal files to get it to run.


Les

On 28/06/2017 19:48, Peter C. Wallace wrote:

Did you trace the source of the PID output spikes?
that is, are there glitches in feedback position of feedback velocity?

The whole thing sounds very strange

Are you using identical hal files for the system with the 
spikes/without spikes?


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

2017-06-28 Thread Les Newell

Hi Todd,

Does buildbot go back to 10.04 times? I thought it was only for recent 
builds.



Thanks for your contributions that became MB2HAL.  I'm using it.


You are welcome. If I manage to get a recent version of LCNC running 
you'll probably see some changes to mb2hal. For a start I want to look 
into why it uses so much CPU. Scanning 55 inputs and 55 outputs plus a 
few registers at 20Hz ends up using 25% of the CPU which seems excessive.


I've just built a preempt-rt kernel for Ubuntu 16.04. I might have just 
enough time tonight to download and build LinuxCNC Git master. It will 
be interesting to see how it behaves under preempt-rt.


Les


On 28/06/2017 19:37, Todd Zuercher wrote:

If you install from buildbot, both linuxcnc and linuxcnc-dev I am pretty sure 
that is all you need to be able to build hal components using halcompile.
You don't have to have all of the resources to build all of Linuxcnc from 
source.

- Original Message -
From: "Les Newell" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 2:26:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

Hi Todd,

I am building from source. I have tried several distros:
Debian - something old, I can't remember what. This has been running
fine for about 8 years but it lacks driver support for modern hardware.
Ubuntu 10.04 LinuxCNC ISO - appears to run smoothly but I can't test
properly until I get LCNC to build. It's also a bit long in the tooth.
Ubuntu 16.04 LinuxCNC ISO - runs rough but I can build fine. I've tried
various different branches of LinuxCNC, including one that is close to
what I was originally running, on this and they all run rough.


Are you sure all of your custom modules are still "custom", or needed?  There 
have been a lot of little goodies added to Linuxcnc since 2.5-2.6 days.

Yes, some of the modules do have fairly direct replacements, such as my
original Modbus component and the new MB2HAl (which is based on my
original). However I have extra stuff to control my spindle and
electronically controlled gearbox which don't have direct replacements.


Maybe they can be added using halcompile (formerly known as comp)?

Yes, most are comps but I still need a working build environment.

I am wondering if now would be a good time to move away from RTAI and
use preempt-rt instead. My reasoning behind that is that I have two
projects coming up that use HM2 ethernet boards so I'll have to work
with preempt-rt at some point. Keeping everything on the same platform
will simplify maintenance in the future.

Les

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Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

2017-06-28 Thread Peter C. Wallace

Did you trace the source of the PID output spikes?
that is, are there glitches in feedback position of feedback velocity?

The whole thing sounds very strange

Are you using identical hal files for the system with the spikes/without 
spikes?


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

2017-06-28 Thread Todd Zuercher
PS.
Thanks for your contributions that became MB2HAL.  I'm using it.

- Original Message -
From: "Les Newell" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 2:26:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

Hi Todd,

I am building from source. I have tried several distros:
Debian - something old, I can't remember what. This has been running 
fine for about 8 years but it lacks driver support for modern hardware.
Ubuntu 10.04 LinuxCNC ISO - appears to run smoothly but I can't test 
properly until I get LCNC to build. It's also a bit long in the tooth.
Ubuntu 16.04 LinuxCNC ISO - runs rough but I can build fine. I've tried 
various different branches of LinuxCNC, including one that is close to 
what I was originally running, on this and they all run rough.

> Are you sure all of your custom modules are still "custom", or needed?  There 
> have been a lot of little goodies added to Linuxcnc since 2.5-2.6 days.

Yes, some of the modules do have fairly direct replacements, such as my 
original Modbus component and the new MB2HAl (which is based on my 
original). However I have extra stuff to control my spindle and 
electronically controlled gearbox which don't have direct replacements.

> Maybe they can be added using halcompile (formerly known as comp)?

Yes, most are comps but I still need a working build environment.

I am wondering if now would be a good time to move away from RTAI and 
use preempt-rt instead. My reasoning behind that is that I have two 
projects coming up that use HM2 ethernet boards so I'll have to work 
with preempt-rt at some point. Keeping everything on the same platform 
will simplify maintenance in the future.

Les

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Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

2017-06-28 Thread Todd Zuercher
If you install from buildbot, both linuxcnc and linuxcnc-dev I am pretty sure 
that is all you need to be able to build hal components using halcompile.
You don't have to have all of the resources to build all of Linuxcnc from 
source.

- Original Message -
From: "Les Newell" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 2:26:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

Hi Todd,

I am building from source. I have tried several distros:
Debian - something old, I can't remember what. This has been running 
fine for about 8 years but it lacks driver support for modern hardware.
Ubuntu 10.04 LinuxCNC ISO - appears to run smoothly but I can't test 
properly until I get LCNC to build. It's also a bit long in the tooth.
Ubuntu 16.04 LinuxCNC ISO - runs rough but I can build fine. I've tried 
various different branches of LinuxCNC, including one that is close to 
what I was originally running, on this and they all run rough.

> Are you sure all of your custom modules are still "custom", or needed?  There 
> have been a lot of little goodies added to Linuxcnc since 2.5-2.6 days.

Yes, some of the modules do have fairly direct replacements, such as my 
original Modbus component and the new MB2HAl (which is based on my 
original). However I have extra stuff to control my spindle and 
electronically controlled gearbox which don't have direct replacements.

> Maybe they can be added using halcompile (formerly known as comp)?

Yes, most are comps but I still need a working build environment.

I am wondering if now would be a good time to move away from RTAI and 
use preempt-rt instead. My reasoning behind that is that I have two 
projects coming up that use HM2 ethernet boards so I'll have to work 
with preempt-rt at some point. Keeping everything on the same platform 
will simplify maintenance in the future.

Les

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Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

2017-06-28 Thread Les Newell

Hi Todd,

I am building from source. I have tried several distros:
Debian - something old, I can't remember what. This has been running 
fine for about 8 years but it lacks driver support for modern hardware.
Ubuntu 10.04 LinuxCNC ISO - appears to run smoothly but I can't test 
properly until I get LCNC to build. It's also a bit long in the tooth.
Ubuntu 16.04 LinuxCNC ISO - runs rough but I can build fine. I've tried 
various different branches of LinuxCNC, including one that is close to 
what I was originally running, on this and they all run rough.



Are you sure all of your custom modules are still "custom", or needed?  There 
have been a lot of little goodies added to Linuxcnc since 2.5-2.6 days.


Yes, some of the modules do have fairly direct replacements, such as my 
original Modbus component and the new MB2HAl (which is based on my 
original). However I have extra stuff to control my spindle and 
electronically controlled gearbox which don't have direct replacements.



Maybe they can be added using halcompile (formerly known as comp)?


Yes, most are comps but I still need a working build environment.

I am wondering if now would be a good time to move away from RTAI and 
use preempt-rt instead. My reasoning behind that is that I have two 
projects coming up that use HM2 ethernet boards so I'll have to work 
with preempt-rt at some point. Keeping everything on the same platform 
will simplify maintenance in the future.


Les

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Chinese linear encoders

2017-06-28 Thread Cristian Bontas

I have 3 of them on my mill, but not so long, only 300 mm.
Repetability is good, about +-0.01 mm.
I don't have any means to verify accuracy at that precision over that 
distance, but I don't need it, either.


On 28.06.2017 20:20, Eric Keller wrote:

Anyone tried them?  I need a 30" encoder for my lathe.  I see ones on ebay
for <$150.  They don't seem to be differential at that price though.
I have an accurite dro, but one of the encoders isn't long enough.
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Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

2017-06-28 Thread Todd Zuercher
Are you trying to build Linuxcnc from source or installing/updating LInuxcnc 
from Buildbot?
I'm still not sure what distro you are working with. (You seem to have talked 
about several.)

I have not tried to build from source on Lucid for a very long time. (But I do 
recall having a great deal of difficulty meeting all the dependencies.)

Are you sure all of your custom modules are still "custom", or needed?  There 
have been a lot of little goodies added to Linuxcnc since 2.5-2.6 days.
Maybe they can be added using halcompile (formerly known as comp)?

- Original Message -
From: "Les Newell" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:51:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

Hi Todd,

I did that but I can't build because it needs Python >=2.7 and the 
repositories only contain 2.6. I tried a very basic test config with 
with the version that is shipped with 2.7.9 and it appeared to run 
smoothly, at least once I figured out I needed to pet the watchdog. I'm 
not going to admit how long it took me to figure that one out :-[
I can't run my lathe properly because it depends on a bunch of custom 
modules which I can't sort out until I can build LinuxCNC.

Les

On 28/06/2017 12:31, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> Yes, the latest v2.7.9 will run on the older Ubuntu 10.04 ISOs.
> They can be down loaded here:
> http://linuxcnc.org/iso/
>
> Forgot to mention, You will need to change the old Ubuntu repo lines.
>
> deb http://linuxcnc.org lucid base 2.7-rtai
> deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid main restricted universe 
> multiverse
> deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid-updates main restricted 
> universe multiverse
> deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid-security main restricted 
> universe multiverse
> deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid-backports main restricted 
> universe multiverse
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Les Newell" 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 4:50:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos
>
> Is there any way to install an older RTAI version?
>
> Les
>
>
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[Emc-users] OT: Chinese linear encoders

2017-06-28 Thread Eric Keller
Anyone tried them?  I need a 30" encoder for my lathe.  I see ones on ebay
for <$150.  They don't seem to be differential at that price though.
I have an accurite dro, but one of the encoders isn't long enough.
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Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

2017-06-28 Thread Les Newell

Hi Todd,

I did that but I can't build because it needs Python >=2.7 and the 
repositories only contain 2.6. I tried a very basic test config with 
with the version that is shipped with 2.7.9 and it appeared to run 
smoothly, at least once I figured out I needed to pet the watchdog. I'm 
not going to admit how long it took me to figure that one out :-[
I can't run my lathe properly because it depends on a bunch of custom 
modules which I can't sort out until I can build LinuxCNC.


Les

On 28/06/2017 12:31, Todd Zuercher wrote:

Yes, the latest v2.7.9 will run on the older Ubuntu 10.04 ISOs.
They can be down loaded here:
http://linuxcnc.org/iso/

Forgot to mention, You will need to change the old Ubuntu repo lines.

deb http://linuxcnc.org lucid base 2.7-rtai
deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid main restricted universe 
multiverse
deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid-updates main restricted 
universe multiverse
deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid-security main restricted 
universe multiverse
deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid-backports main restricted 
universe multiverse

- Original Message -
From: "Les Newell" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 4:50:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

Is there any way to install an older RTAI version?

Les


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Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

2017-06-28 Thread Jon Elson

On 06/28/2017 03:50 AM, Les Newell wrote:
OK, Tried the usual reseating components etc and that PC 
does not want to play. I found a Dell SFF PC in the junk 
pile. After hacking it to take a full size PCI card I 
fired it up. Running my old Debian + LinuxCNC 2.6.0 it 
runs smooth. Latency jitter is 7us,10us. Running the 
latest LinuxCNC image installed on an SSD it runs rough, 
latency jitter is 37us,16us.  2.6.0 won't build on the 
latest image but I built 2.6.13 and it also runs rough, 
though maybe not quite as rough as 2.7.9.


Is there any way to install an older RTAI version?

I'm pretty sure some of the older ISO files are available, 
but may not be listed directly on linuxcnc.org
Check with uname -a to see what kernel you are using, it 
might be a preempt kernel, which will have worse latency 
than rtai.  But, 37 us shouldn't cause serious problems, so 
I'm thinking it probably is not the kernel, but something to 
do with the PID.


Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] EMC traffic

2017-06-28 Thread Ralph Stirling
You would not want to do houseplans in Openscad.  It has no provisions for 
making 2d views or projections, and no provision for dimension lines or text.

I use Openscad quite a bit for parts I will 3d print.  Sometimes I create by 
basic part geometry in Openscad, the import it into Freecad (the only other 
tool that can use ,scad files) and apply fillets or other niceties that are 
difficult in Openscad.  Freecad has python scripting, so you could "program" a 
part.  It also has some capability for 2d views with dimensioning, although it 
is very much a work in progress.

-- Ralph

On Jun 27, 2017 11:54 PM, Erik Christiansen  wrote:
Sorry for the late reply - just back from a week on the farm. (Soil test
done, so foundation & slab design can now go ahead.)

On 21.06.17 13:16, andy pugh wrote:
> On 20 June 2017 at 08:50, Erik Christiansen  wrote:
>
> > Incidentally, I've found that the Postscript printer language is sorta
> > almost like gcode on steroids. Fighting with a GUI drawing package
> > gives me chest pains, without producing useful output,
> >
>
> Have you seen OpenSCAD? 3D CAD at the command line.
>
> An example usage: https://youtu.be/IPtF5c8o-10?t=4m30s

Nooo, heard the name, but never seen it before. It is clearly much more
powerful, as it handles 3D - very nice. (Assuming the "Open" means it
runs on linux.) Fortunately, there's not a lot lost in this particular
use case, as floorplans, elevations, sections, and site plan are all 2D.
However, I have had to explicitly define variables, as described
upthread, to automate transfer of e.g. truss length from floorplan to
sectioned elevation. (So, yes, using Postscript is a hack.)

Postscript is quite efficient, though, as I've produced 8 drawings with
798 lines of text. And there's a lot of detail in the floorplan, and a
reasonable amount in the sections.

The drawings are all done, except for some details on the site plan, so
I've missed the boat for drawing it all in OpenSCAD. What I will do is
look at that for 3D design, once I've built and the mill & lathe are in
their new home. (Off-grid, solar powered, maybe with a 10 kWh
Zinc-Bromine flow battery for filling in during clouds, and for
evenings. Hopefully the price will diminish a little bit in the next 18
months. Down under, it's the northern roof plane which will carry the 6
to 7 kw PV array.)

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

2017-06-28 Thread Todd Zuercher

Yes, the latest v2.7.9 will run on the older Ubuntu 10.04 ISOs.  
They can be down loaded here:
http://linuxcnc.org/iso/

Forgot to mention, You will need to change the old Ubuntu repo lines.

deb http://linuxcnc.org lucid base 2.7-rtai
deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid main restricted universe 
multiverse
deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid-updates main restricted 
universe multiverse
deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid-security main restricted 
universe multiverse
deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid-backports main restricted 
universe multiverse

- Original Message -
From: "Les Newell" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 4:50:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

Is there any way to install an older RTAI version?

Les


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Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

2017-06-28 Thread Todd Zuercher
Yes, the latest v2.7.9 will run on the older Ubuntu 10.04 ISOs.  
They can be down loaded here:
http://linuxcnc.org/iso/

- Original Message -
From: "Les Newell" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 4:50:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

OK, Tried the usual reseating components etc and that PC does not want 
to play. I found a Dell SFF PC in the junk pile. After hacking it to 
take a full size PCI card I fired it up. Running my old Debian + 
LinuxCNC 2.6.0 it runs smooth. Latency jitter is 7us,10us. Running the 
latest LinuxCNC image installed on an SSD it runs rough, latency jitter 
is 37us,16us.  2.6.0 won't build on the latest image but I built 2.6.13 
and it also runs rough, though maybe not quite as rough as 2.7.9.

Is there any way to install an older RTAI version?

Les


On 28/06/2017 02:13, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 06/27/2017 03:06 PM, Les Newell wrote:
>> Hmm, looks like that was a red herring. The problem is back. I can't 
>> do any more testing because the pixies inside the old computer 
>> finally abandoned ship and it now no longer boots. Doesn't even post. 
>> My priority now is going to be to find a box that will run my old EMC.
>>
> Whenever this happens, I reseat the memory sticks and maybe even the 
> CPU and that often brings it back.
> Of course, it could have suffered the capacitor plague.
>
> Jon 


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Re: [Emc-users] Rough motion with servos

2017-06-28 Thread Les Newell
OK, Tried the usual reseating components etc and that PC does not want 
to play. I found a Dell SFF PC in the junk pile. After hacking it to 
take a full size PCI card I fired it up. Running my old Debian + 
LinuxCNC 2.6.0 it runs smooth. Latency jitter is 7us,10us. Running the 
latest LinuxCNC image installed on an SSD it runs rough, latency jitter 
is 37us,16us.  2.6.0 won't build on the latest image but I built 2.6.13 
and it also runs rough, though maybe not quite as rough as 2.7.9.


Is there any way to install an older RTAI version?

Les


On 28/06/2017 02:13, Jon Elson wrote:

On 06/27/2017 03:06 PM, Les Newell wrote:
Hmm, looks like that was a red herring. The problem is back. I can't 
do any more testing because the pixies inside the old computer 
finally abandoned ship and it now no longer boots. Doesn't even post. 
My priority now is going to be to find a box that will run my old EMC.


Whenever this happens, I reseat the memory sticks and maybe even the 
CPU and that often brings it back.

Of course, it could have suffered the capacitor plague.

Jon 



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