Re: [Emc-users] Rotary convention

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 02:39, Stuart Stevenson  wrote:
>
> The axis Peaches can rotate around the Rutabaga axis for all the
> machine cares.

Only in the Imperial system. On a metric machine that would be the
Peach axis rotating about the Swede axis.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary convention

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 19 March 2019 05:38:49 andy pugh wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 02:39, Stuart Stevenson  
wrote:
> > The axis Peaches can rotate around the Rutabaga axis for all the
> > machine cares.
>
> Only in the Imperial system. On a metric machine that would be the
> Peach axis rotating about the Swede axis.

;-) Where I grew up, that would have been the pear axis rotating about 
the Iowegian axis. We had quite a few of those up around the Minnesota 
border.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary convention

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 19 March 2019 00:11:56 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Monday 18 March 2019 22:37:13 Stuart Stevenson wrote:
> > Gene,
> >
> > Rotary convention is whatever you want on your machine.
> > To match what a CAD system shows you would rotate the geometry
> > positive by moving in the counter clockwise direction when you view
> > from the X, Y, or Z directions. When you look at the Cartesian
> > coordinate plane laying on your desk, you assume the X axis is
> > pointing to your right, the Y axis is pointing away from you and the
> > Z axis is pointing up. Generally, a positive rotation moves the
> > geometry in a ccw direction.
> >   The normal convention also assigns the label of the rotary tables
> > as follows - A axis rotates around the X axis - B axis rotates
> > around the Y axis and the C axis rotates around the Z axis.
> >   If you mount the rotary table on the left (X negative) end of the
> > XY table (as an A axis) then a positive rotation of the rotary table
> > would result in the top of the table moving toward you.
> >   An A axis that carries the tool would rotate the top away from
> > you. This would be the result the top of the geometry moving toward
> > you but since the rotary table is carrying the tool the top of the
> > tool should move away from you.
> >   All of this is 100% arbitrary. The only requirement is the program
> > numbers and signs match the motion of the machine. Make it
> > comfortable for you and then do it with no apologies to anyone.
> >   Almost every machine control can set the rotation however the shop
> > wants. All the labels are just that labels. You can label any axis
> > whatever you want. The axis Peaches can rotate around the Rutabaga
> > axis for all the machine cares.
> >
> > Regards
> > Stuart
>
> Chuckle, nice way of putting it, and I don't have to reverse anything.
> One thing seems for sure, and thats the speed of this belt drive
> thing, the g0 speed is above 21000 degrees a minute.  That also means
> its a bit soft, with cutting forces moving it a bit. But now I need a
> cbn wheel to shape lathe tools with a gentle touch.

And all I can find on fleabay is huge stuff, way too big (6 to 11") to 
spin with this motor, or teeny stuff mounted for a dremel and its ilk. 
What I'd like is 2", maybe 2.5" in diameter, and nothing in that 
category is mounted, so no arbor.  And most vendors don't know the diff 
between CBN and diamond.

I tried grinding a tool while making the probe stylus and found a 
horrible finish was left by that 80 grit silicon carbide wheel, which 
was markedly improved if the HSS was honed on a 2x6 diamond plate said 
to be 1200 but about worn out.

What I've seen a 5" CBN cup do on the g0704 is a huge improvement but 
takes a week since the g0704's top spindle speed is 2950-3k revs. Needs 
about 10k is the impression I get, but would need to be much better 
balanced and a lot less T.I.R.

Ideas, other sources that don't want $200 and up for such a critter?

Thanks everybody. 

>
> Thanks Stuart.
>
> > ___
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>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] CANopen configuration files, CiA 309-3

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> Nicklas, as soon as a lead-acid battery bubbles, it's losing water and 
> the plates cover with lead sulphate, increasing capacity and intrinsic 
> resistance. No, no.

You have to stop then then the lead-acid battery bubble like home brewn mesh.

> I got myself a handful of cheap 74N137 stabilizers. These are made 
> espacially by Motorola to maintain a constant charging voltage of 13.7 V 
> which is the exact limit before the gassing occurs. The current they 
> deliver is limited to 1 A. I placed them inside the housing of several 
> 12 V DC wall warts together with a small electrolytic capacitor. The 
> transformers of these little power supplies give more than 15 V AC so 
> there is enough headroom for regulating.
> Using those chargers the batteries of my vehicles are kept in perfect 
> shape all winter and in summer, too, when the tractor is not in use. I 
> have been using them for years now.
> Peter

It also works, there is a small change with temperature but can't remember 
exactly.


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Re: [Emc-users] CANopen configuration files, CiA 309-3 --> battery charging

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> The worst thing thats happened to te life of a LA battery in the last 50 
> years has been the incorporation of the regulator into the alternator, 
> adding the resistance of the cable which softens the curve a lot, and 
> the relatively quick heating of the alternator.  Way faster than the 
> battery. Late vehicles are doing good to get 4 years out of a battery.  
> The wife's 2007 toy RAV4 is on its 4th battery now, and I don't believe 
> the acid has ever gotten up to 1.26 SG even after a 600 mile trip to FL, 
> or a 435 mile trip to NY from here. She has kin in both places she'll 
> never see again unless they come to us.

It might be good to bubble batteries a little bit to get acid circulating but 
driving the car probably have the same effect. I vaguely remember someone 
mentioned something about putting asphalt on gravel, flat enough surface and 
there are no circulating then driving.


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Re: [Emc-users] CANopen configuration files, CiA 309-3 --> battery charing like home brewn mash, nothing about CiA 309-3?

[Nicklas Karlsson]

On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 19:03:07 -0400
Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Sunday 17 March 2019 17:56:02 Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> 
> > > ...
> > > So once every 1/2 second a message starting with 0x40A shows up on
> > > the bus and everyone sees it.  The Charger and in this case also a
> > > small display are the only ones interested in it.   The charger uses
> > > the information to set charge on/off, voltage and current.  The
> > > display grabs the information and shows what the current charge
> > > voltage and max current are set to.
> > >
> > > The charger also reports in a different message what it measures for
> > > battery voltage and what the current charge current is and it
> > > reports if it's enabled.  That's all identified by the Object
> > > Dictionary entries at 18xx and 1Axx.
> >
> > I am familiar with CANopen communication and also to some degree
> > battery charging. The old style open Lead-acid batteries should bubble
> > like home brewn mash before they are done.
> >
> Fraid not Nik. And this is TL;DR, but read it anyway. LA batteries might 
> bubble gently when being heavily charged, but every bubble is 
> electrolite lost forever and its hard on the plates.

You have to refill.

> Someone in the distant past at kxne-tv had put a 10 amp charger on a pair 
> of 220 AH truck batteries with a 47 ohm 5 watt resistor in series, so 
> they were getting about 600 ma as a trickle charge into the two of them 
> in parallel. So they were boiling at a good rate. ...

You have to stop then they bubble like home brewn mash, at least after a while. 
They should not bubble during trickle charge.

> ... Since it was 
> started weekly for a 15 minute dry run, it never needed that charger in 
> the first place.


> > CiA 309-3 is to access a CANopen device over TCP/IP and as I added it
> > could be used to access dictionary of devices connected to Linuxcnc.

Nobody have anything to mention about CiA 309-3?


Nicklas Karlsson


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Re: [Emc-users] CANopen configuration files, CiA 309-3 --> battery charing like home brewn mash, nothing about CiA 309-3?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 19 March 2019 15:32:40 Nicklas Karlsson wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 19:03:07 -0400
>
> Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > On Sunday 17 March 2019 17:56:02 Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > > So once every 1/2 second a message starting with 0x40A shows up
> > > > on the bus and everyone sees it.  The Charger and in this case
> > > > also a small display are the only ones interested in it.   The
> > > > charger uses the information to set charge on/off, voltage and
> > > > current.  The display grabs the information and shows what the
> > > > current charge voltage and max current are set to.
> > > >
> > > > The charger also reports in a different message what it measures
> > > > for battery voltage and what the current charge current is and
> > > > it reports if it's enabled.  That's all identified by the Object
> > > > Dictionary entries at 18xx and 1Axx.
> > >
> > > I am familiar with CANopen communication and also to some degree
> > > battery charging. The old style open Lead-acid batteries should
> > > bubble like home brewn mash before they are done.
> >
> > Fraid not Nik. And this is TL;DR, but read it anyway. LA batteries
> > might bubble gently when being heavily charged, but every bubble is
> > electrolite lost forever and its hard on the plates.
>
> You have to refill.
>
Only if you brew them with an overcharge. I try not to if I have the 
means to control it accurately.

> > Someone in the distant past at kxne-tv had put a 10 amp charger on a
> > pair of 220 AH truck batteries with a 47 ohm 5 watt resistor in
> > series, so they were getting about 600 ma as a trickle charge into
> > the two of them in parallel. So they were boiling at a good rate.
> > ...
>
> You have to stop then they bubble like home brewn mash, at least after
> a while. They should not bubble during trickle charge.

And for those huge new batteries, a 10 ma charge was enough to make them 
bubble, albeit slowly. The alternator regulator was not adjustable and 
it took nominally 30 minutes for the last bubble to come up as it 
overcharged them pretty hard while it was getting its weekly exercise. 
15.1 volts is way too much in a 65F garage where this was located. If it 
hadn't been a potted unit, I might have tried to turn it down.  In the 
next 7 years I dribbled most of a gallon of distilled in them for 
makeup. I shouldn't have had to add any. I cleaned & greased the posts 
about annually which is when I topped them off. Thats one thing that 
will wreck a voltage switching starter circuit as it will let the 
battery with a higher connection resistance go down and slowly sulfate 
just one battery. But that pair started it so fast it was always 
amazing, you hear the Bendix kick in, the first cylinder to hit tdc 
kicks it back out, its running.  The pot field gets tickled from the 
batteries as it goes past 1500 revs, that bangs the transfer switch and 
you have lights in under 2 seconds. We had a tank heater on the block, 
so it wasn't really cold when it picked up about 160 kw of load so the 
real thing never made it past about 1780 revs, rated at 150kw.  And that 
was with both klystrons running at about 40% OF normal beam current by 
an automatic signal to the transmitter that it was on standby power. 
Klystron based uhf transmitters are hungry beasts. At full power, the 
line draw was about 250 KWH.

Bandwidth goes in the toilet so color is washed out when the beam 
diameter is reduced, but you are at least on the air. We (KXNE-TV-19) 
were, by a wide margin, Wayne County Public powers biggest customer.

> > ... Since it was
> > started weekly for a 15 minute dry run, it never needed that charger
> > in the first place.
> >
> > > CiA 309-3 is to access a CANopen device over TCP/IP and as I added
> > > it could be used to access dictionary of devices connected to
> > > Linuxcnc.
>
> Nobody have anything to mention about CiA 309-3?

I don't personally know anything about it, sorry Nik. But you mentioned 
batteries...
>
> Nicklas Karlsson
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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