Re: [Emc-users] Small torque, spindle gear box clutch?

2020-04-13 Thread Peter Blodow

Nicklas,
my Graziano lathe has 5 electric clutches für 4 gears and reverse. 
Without activating these the spindle will only be turned slightly by the 
heavy oil in the gear case. Such a feature makes the machine ideal for 
electrical control in order to face off and form cut large flat cast 
iron grinding slabs, starting out from 400 mm radius and continously 
cutting with accelerating speeds down to the very center without pausing 
fo gear change.


Peter


Am 12.04.2020 um 17:06 schrieb N:

Try to run spindle motor om a machine today, this is my first CNC machine so I 
am a little bit uncertain. Motor run but spindle does not, there of course is a 
possibility gear box i broken but in such case I would have expected noise, 
there is some torque on spindle make it move slowly but not normal.

There some kind of electrical connection. Anybody have any idea if it is common 
to have some kind of clutch for spindle?


Regards Nicklas Karlsson


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Re: [Emc-users] Small torque, spindle gear box clutch?

2020-04-13 Thread Peter Blodow
My lathe internally provides 24 V DC for these clutches at about 1.5 
Ampere each. Try measuring the voltages in the electric cabinet.


Peter

Am 12.04.2020 um 20:48 schrieb N:

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 at 16:09, N  wrote:


There some kind of electrical connection. Anybody have any idea if it is common 
to have some kind of clutch for spindle?

Yes. My lathe, for example, has a 2-speed gearbox that contains two
electromagnetic clutches and an electromagnetic brake.

This one is a CNC machine. There is some kind of electrical connection but to 
tell what kind of signal is needed is not obvious, maybe with some luck I did 
not remove cable in other end.


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[Emc-users] toolchange numbers are confusing on the documentation

2020-04-13 Thread andrew beck
Hi guys

I was just looking at the toolchanger wiki online and it looks like some of
the info is outdated or wrong.  someone has put fix-me comments all over
it.  Can someone please confirm how this works or if the instructions are
correct or not?

regards

Andrew

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ToolChange

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Re: [Emc-users] toolchange numbers are confusing on the documentation

2020-04-13 Thread andy pugh
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 23:57, andrew beck  wrote:

> I was just looking at the toolchanger wiki online and it looks like some of
> the info is outdated or wrong.

Where?

The Wiki is not "the documentation"

Maybe it just needs wholesale deletion?


--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] toolchange numbers are confusing on the documentation

2020-04-13 Thread Rene Hopf via Emc-users


> On 14. Apr 2020, at 01:20, andy pugh  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 23:57, andrew beck  wrote:
> 
>> I was just looking at the toolchanger wiki online and it looks like some of
>> the info is outdated or wrong.
> 
> Where?
> 
> The Wiki is not "the documentation"
> 
> Maybe it just needs wholesale deletion?

Some stuff needs moving to the docs.
There isn’t actually any documentation on the tooltable or toolchanging.


> 
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] toolchange numbers are confusing on the documentation

2020-04-13 Thread andrew beck
hey Andy and Rene

I thought the wiki was the Docs.  But looking in the installed html docs
that come with the iso as rene said there is nothing about random position
toolchanging.  Or if there is I would love to know.  I think I understand
how it works but would appreciate come confirmation.

here is what is in the wiki  my comments are below in red
Prepare operation
The prepare operation is initiated by a T command. This
toolnumber is used in a later change step as the M6 command carries no tool
number attribute by itself. The following signals support the prepare step


   - tool-prep-number: out,s32: the tool number to prepare
   - tool-prep-pocket: out,s32: the commanded pocket number to position the
   toolchanger to. Valid only when RANDOM_TOOLCHANGER is set. The tool table
   is searched for the given tool number, the corresponding pocket number is
   retrieved and signaled with this pin.
   - tool-prepare: out, bit: iocontrol signals to start a prepare.
   - tool-prepared: in, bit: acknowledge line that the tool-prepare line
   has been noticed by the toolchanger, the tool-prep-number or
   tool-prep-pocket has been read if needed and the prepare operation has been
   started (FIXME: or completed? this would defeat the purpose of running in
   parallel)



So this is how I understand it..  if someone could write up a better
explanation I would appreciate it..

I think the Iocontrol pin "tool-prep-number: out,s32" comes from linuxcnc
and is triggered by the toolnumber in the Gcode.
so if the tool number requested was T2 then linuxcnc would search the tool
table and find out which pocket number matched T2.
Just say T2 was in Pocket 1.  Iocontrol  pin "tool-prep-pocket s32 would
have a value of 1.  (think its 1 but it might be zero depending on how the
counting works)

I could get this info into classic ladder by connecting it to
classicladder.0.s32in-00.  (If you then checked in the Hal configuration
window in the axis gui the Iocontrol pin "tool-prep-pocket s32" would show
a value of 1)  This would just connect up the stream of data.  I would
still have to actually signal the toolchanger to prepare the correct
pocket.  I would do this with "iocontrol tool-prepare: out, bit"  This is
the signal that should actually make the toolchanger start to prepare the
tool.

This is where the info gets hazy in the wiki.  I think after classic ladder
(the toolchanger) has moved to the correct pocket and is all finishing
moving pockets, it should signal to linuxcnc that the magazine is ready to
go.

To actually get this to work, my classic ladder would have a counter set up
triggering as each pocket goes past the sensor.  I would have a compare
variable box comparing the requested tool number with the number in the
counter.  once they were the same then the magazine would stop at that
pocket and signal to linuxcnc that the correct pocket (and tool) was ready
for a tool change.
I would do this by connecting the classic ladder output to iocontrol
tool-prepared for example (net classicladder.0.out-05  => iocontrol
tool-prepared)


Now that the magazine is controlled and set its time to use the
toolchange iocontrol pins.

Change operationThe change operation is initiated by an M6 command, which
relies on the number of the tool to be loaded having been set by a previous
T command. When using a random toolchanger with prepare
capability, it might make sense to execute the T
immediately after an M6 to give the prepare mechanism ample time to
position. In nonrandom or manual toolchange scenarios this has no effect so
T and M6 could well be on the same line.

The following signals support the change step:


   - tool-number: out,s32: the tool number currently loaded (in spindle).
   - tool-change: out, bit: iocontrol signals to start a tool change
   operation.
   - tool-changed: in, bit: acknowledge line that the tool-change line has
   been noticed by the toolchanger, the tool-number has been read if needed,
   and the change operation has completed


   1. An M6 command initiates the tool loading cycle. iocontrol asserts
   tool-change.
   2. The toolchanger completes the tool load and signals that with
   asserting tool-changed.
   3. iocontrol the tool-changed pin at 1, and deasserts tool-change to
   acknowledge.
   4. The toolchanger sees tool-change going low and in response deasserts
   tool-changed. The change cycle is now complete.

This is how I understand the actual tool change operation.

I think the iocontrol toolchange: out, bit tells classic ladder to swap the
tool in the magazine pocket with the one in the spindle.

I would make this work by by connecting iocontrol toolchange to my classic
ladder input pin I am using to start the plc into toolchange.

for example  net iocontrol toolchange => classicladder.0.in-04.


Once classicladder has completed the toolchange it would signal linuxcnc by
connecting a classicladder output to iocontrol tool-changed: in, bit:

for example  net classicladder.0out.07 iocon