Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor

[gene heskett]

On 7/30/23 00:12, John Dammeyer wrote:

Hi Gene,
Best answered with the data sheet.
https://www.cuidevices.com/product/resource/amt11.pdf

A Capacitative device. Not a hall effect. The capacitative may be faster 
than a hall.  The reason I'm anti hall is the time lag in the hall world 
due to the time it takes to do the A/D conversions, which in turn means 
the hall encoded setup moves in jerks depending on the speed of that 
conversion. The 42C series of small motors, seen as ideal for a 3d 
printer, are a disaster because they don't move step by step but jerk by 
jerk, frequency of jerk determined to the speed of the A/D. Optical can 
determine where the motor is and which direction its turning from any 
edge of either A or B signals. At sufficient microstep divisors they can 
move quite pretty smoothly. I'd assume this time lag in less for the 
capacitative, but at the same time there is the Nyquist effect but the 
capacitative conversion is simpler, but the serial output still enforces 
a lag in the data stream. Only optical, which at higher and fixed 
resolutions is instant. The question remains then "is capacitative fast 
enough".  And that IDK. The 115 kilobaud output says no to me.  That 
alone would make me go shopping for a ABI encoder.


But I'm known to be picky. That's an optical $22 Omron 1000 ppr on the 
back shaft of the 1 hp in my g0704. With the gear ratio being 
switchable, and that encoder rated for 6k revs, but I watch spindle revs 
in the tach display. Top spindle is 3k revs. So times a hair over 7100, 
its seeing motor revs of nearly 21k revs at full song and not missing a 
beat for about 5 years now. Scale for high gear is a hair over 7100 per 
spindle rev.  I don't use the index, that is generated by a screw glued 
to the spindle going by an ATS-667 hall effect. That has its own 
direction problem I'm not smart enough to fix.   Someday...



Not cheap in Canadian $.
https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/cui-devices/AMT113Q-V/4835229

John



-Original Message-
From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
Sent: July 29, 2023 9:02 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor

On 7/29/23 22:36, John Dammeyer wrote:

Here's my solution.  Drilled and milled 0.065" aluminum.  Two counter

sunk

holes in the back.  The modified flat head screws epoxied in serving as
threaded studs.  Then followed standard CUI installation and alignment
instructions.

Now to interface to it and write software to capture the motion and

position

John


Just one question John, is that encoder optical, or hall effect?
Optical is real time, hall effect is not.



-Original Message-
From: Curtis Dutton [mailto:curtd...@gmail.com]
Sent: June 26, 2023 6:28 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor

On a past life before I started using servos I had attached encoders to

my

steppers to stop the machine when steps were missed. I used us digital
encoders that came with adhesive backed mounts from the factory. They
worked swimmingly. I still have one in the "spare parts" room. The

encoder

is still securely attached over 10 years later. "double sided tape"
essentially woked very well.

On Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 3:11 PM Todd Zuercher



wrote:


I was just about to suggest gluing the thing on.  You beat me to it.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Roland Jollivet 
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2023 1:17 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
us...@lists.sourceforge.net>

Subject: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

You have such a large flat surface area there. Design an encoder mount
plate of similar size where the end result is also has a flat surface.

Rough and clean the back of the motor up, then use a decent

polyurethane

adhesive to bond it on. During the setup you could use a jig to keep

it

concentric with the shaft.
Design it in such a way that you can still replace the encoder if need

be.


Roland




On Sun, 25 Jun 2023 at 05:31, John Dammeyer



wrote:


I want to add an encoder onto the back of this stepper motor.  I can
install either a US Digital or a CUI since both mounting flanges can
extend out near the edges of the back mounting plate.



Is there any reason I can't clamp the motor in a vice and pop in two

holes

and tap them with a bottom tap at the spacing of the mounting flange?

John



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Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Gene,
Best answered with the data sheet.
https://www.cuidevices.com/product/resource/amt11.pdf

Not cheap in Canadian $.
https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/cui-devices/AMT113Q-V/4835229

John


> -Original Message-
> From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: July 29, 2023 9:02 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor
> 
> On 7/29/23 22:36, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > Here's my solution.  Drilled and milled 0.065" aluminum.  Two counter
sunk
> > holes in the back.  The modified flat head screws epoxied in serving as
> > threaded studs.  Then followed standard CUI installation and alignment
> > instructions.
> >
> > Now to interface to it and write software to capture the motion and
> position
> > John
> >
> Just one question John, is that encoder optical, or hall effect?
> Optical is real time, hall effect is not.
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Curtis Dutton [mailto:curtd...@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: June 26, 2023 6:28 PM
> >> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor
> >>
> >> On a past life before I started using servos I had attached encoders to
my
> >> steppers to stop the machine when steps were missed. I used us digital
> >> encoders that came with adhesive backed mounts from the factory. They
> >> worked swimmingly. I still have one in the "spare parts" room. The
> encoder
> >> is still securely attached over 10 years later. "double sided tape"
> >> essentially woked very well.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 3:11 PM Todd Zuercher
> 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I was just about to suggest gluing the thing on.  You beat me to it.
> >>>
> >>> Todd Zuercher
> >>> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> >>> 630 Henry Street
> >>> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> >>> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: Roland Jollivet 
> >>> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2023 1:17 PM
> >>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)  >> us...@lists.sourceforge.net>
> >>> Subject: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor
> >>>
> >>> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
> >>>
> >>> You have such a large flat surface area there. Design an encoder mount
> >>> plate of similar size where the end result is also has a flat surface.
> >>>
> >>> Rough and clean the back of the motor up, then use a decent
> polyurethane
> >>> adhesive to bond it on. During the setup you could use a jig to keep
it
> >>> concentric with the shaft.
> >>> Design it in such a way that you can still replace the encoder if need
> > be.
> >>>
> >>> Roland
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, 25 Jun 2023 at 05:31, John Dammeyer
> 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
>  I want to add an encoder onto the back of this stepper motor.  I can
>  install either a US Digital or a CUI since both mounting flanges can
>  extend out near the edges of the back mounting plate.
> 
> 
> 
>  Is there any reason I can't clamp the motor in a vice and pop in two
> >>> holes
>  and tap them with a bottom tap at the spacing of the mounting flange?
> 
>  John
> 
> 
> 
>  ___
>  Emc-users mailing list
>  Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>  https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> >>>
> >>> ___
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> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-users mailing list
> >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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> >>>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>   - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor

[gene heskett]

On 7/29/23 22:36, John Dammeyer wrote:

Here's my solution.  Drilled and milled 0.065" aluminum.  Two counter sunk
holes in the back.  The modified flat head screws epoxied in serving as
threaded studs.  Then followed standard CUI installation and alignment
instructions.

Now to interface to it and write software to capture the motion and position
John

Just one question John, is that encoder optical, or hall effect? 
Optical is real time, hall effect is not.



-Original Message-
From: Curtis Dutton [mailto:curtd...@gmail.com]
Sent: June 26, 2023 6:28 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor

On a past life before I started using servos I had attached encoders to my
steppers to stop the machine when steps were missed. I used us digital
encoders that came with adhesive backed mounts from the factory. They
worked swimmingly. I still have one in the "spare parts" room. The encoder
is still securely attached over 10 years later. "double sided tape"
essentially woked very well.

On Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 3:11 PM Todd Zuercher 
wrote:


I was just about to suggest gluing the thing on.  You beat me to it.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Roland Jollivet 
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2023 1:17 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
us...@lists.sourceforge.net>

Subject: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

You have such a large flat surface area there. Design an encoder mount
plate of similar size where the end result is also has a flat surface.

Rough and clean the back of the motor up, then use a decent polyurethane
adhesive to bond it on. During the setup you could use a jig to keep it
concentric with the shaft.
Design it in such a way that you can still replace the encoder if need

be.


Roland




On Sun, 25 Jun 2023 at 05:31, John Dammeyer 
wrote:


I want to add an encoder onto the back of this stepper motor.  I can
install either a US Digital or a CUI since both mounting flanges can
extend out near the edges of the back mounting plate.



Is there any reason I can't clamp the motor in a vice and pop in two

holes

and tap them with a bottom tap at the spacing of the mounting flange?

John



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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor

[John Dammeyer]

Here's my solution.  Drilled and milled 0.065" aluminum.  Two counter sunk
holes in the back.  The modified flat head screws epoxied in serving as
threaded studs.  Then followed standard CUI installation and alignment
instructions.

Now to interface to it and write software to capture the motion and position
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Curtis Dutton [mailto:curtd...@gmail.com]
> Sent: June 26, 2023 6:28 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor
> 
> On a past life before I started using servos I had attached encoders to my
> steppers to stop the machine when steps were missed. I used us digital
> encoders that came with adhesive backed mounts from the factory. They
> worked swimmingly. I still have one in the "spare parts" room. The encoder
> is still securely attached over 10 years later. "double sided tape"
> essentially woked very well.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 3:11 PM Todd Zuercher 
> wrote:
> 
> > I was just about to suggest gluing the thing on.  You beat me to it.
> >
> > Todd Zuercher
> > P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> > 630 Henry Street
> > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Roland Jollivet 
> > Sent: Monday, June 26, 2023 1:17 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)  us...@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > Subject: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor
> >
> > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
> >
> > You have such a large flat surface area there. Design an encoder mount
> > plate of similar size where the end result is also has a flat surface.
> >
> > Rough and clean the back of the motor up, then use a decent polyurethane
> > adhesive to bond it on. During the setup you could use a jig to keep it
> > concentric with the shaft.
> > Design it in such a way that you can still replace the encoder if need
be.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 25 Jun 2023 at 05:31, John Dammeyer 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I want to add an encoder onto the back of this stepper motor.  I can
> > > install either a US Digital or a CUI since both mounting flanges can
> > > extend out near the edges of the back mounting plate.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Is there any reason I can't clamp the motor in a vice and pop in two
> > holes
> > > and tap them with a bottom tap at the spacing of the mounting flange?
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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