Re: [Emc-users] Guidance on usb comp
Sercos 3 was one example of the use of ethernet for real time control. Another example is ethernet i/p. Again it uses standard ethernet technology and allows the use of switches between the host and slave. It all comes down to timing. AB claims they do +/- 100 uS without modified hardware. With IEEE 1588 compliant hardware they can get it down much lower. It all comes down to the application and what is required. Refer to ODVA's CIP Motion and CIP Sync for more information. I use AB PLC's and Bosch Rexroth drives using ethernet I/P communication on a daily basis without 1588 hardware and have found it to offer exceptional performance. My comments were relating to someone indicating that ethernet could not be used in a real-time application. Thanks Jp Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Mark Wendt mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 08:37:19 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Reply-To: mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil, Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Guidance on usb comp On 02/28/2011 08:19 AM, Dave wrote: Siemens DriveCliq works the same way. Everything is point to point. No external hubs or switches. I think the controller I was using recently had 6 or 8 Ethernet jacks. The drive module had 3, one for the connection to the controller and two for encoder connections. I think the line module (Ac to DC smart power supply) had 3 Ethernet jacks. Hooking everything up was very quick. Dave Looking again at the Sercos3 implementation, each host requires at least a two-port network interace. That's how they implement either the Line, Ring or other network topology. Each host has to process the data and then pass it on to the next host in a host 2+n topology. The Ring topology looks to be the most efficient, since two channels are being used to move the data around the circuit, and the second channel offers a bit of redundancy of the primary channel goes down. For environments that have multiple machines, this could be an issue with multiple, long network cables going from the master controller to the slave boxes. With that in mind though, it's kind of hard to imagine multiple instances of EMC2 running on one controller PC controlling different machines. For a single control PC sending data to a single control box, this shouldn't really be an issue. Interesting also how the protocol utilizes multiple length packets (or as they call them, Telegrams), anywhere from 84 bytes to 1538 bytes in length. Mark -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Guidance on usb comp
Ethernet medium can be in realtime take a look at sercos3 for example. It uses standard ethernet hardware. Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 11:10:15 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Guidance on usb comp On 2/27/2011 8:03 AM, Peter Blodow wrote: Hello Mark, Ethernet is a sloppy name for IEEE 802.3, the real protocol name is Carrier Sense Multiple Access/Collision Detection (CSMA/CD). In local wireless networks, /CA is used (Collosion Avoidance) instead of /CD. Other Bus protocols are based on the same idea such as CAN bus (CSMA/CR, Collision Resolution) and others. All these protocols have in common that they are asynchronous and data transmission is randomly timed, depending on network load. Just the same especially with serial busses like USB. Since EMC is based on exactly timed pulse generation, there is PRINCIPALLY no use trying to adapt it to the protocol systems mentioned. Why not stick to the parallel port? Best regards Peter Blodow Peter, I work on a daily basis with Ethernet as a system and network administrator. We're talking about a Real Time Ethernet, with a dedicated master and slave network interface, which should preclude any worry of collisions on a duplex connection between the two. Modern systems with full duplex connections no longer really rely on CSMA/CD. As defined in 802.3, that's just one of the protocols that have been used, not the only way. The reason we're talking about Ethernet as one of the possibilities for communications between the computer and the controller is the possibility of the ultimate demise of the parallel port, and the difficulties of real time communications on the USB bus. So, Real Time Ethernet ain't quite your Granddaddy's TCP/IP or USB protocol. If it can be worked into a real time communication scheme, unlike USB, it may be a possible alternative to the parallel port when the parallel port is no longer supported. And, if it's a dedicated port, like the parallel port is, and can be controlled by the Real Time kernel, it can handle the timed pulses in 100 Mb, Gig E, or 10 Gig E depending on the network interface that's supported by the software. Mark -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Guidance on usb comp
Seb, I plan on working on this tonight. After reviewing this all day today. I do not see this a huge bridge to cross. Most of your shuttle comp can be used to test and add some provisions to write hard coded command packets. Basically block read the inputs and then assign to comp pins. That's what I plan to take a stab at tonight. Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Sebastian Kuzminsky s...@highlab.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 13:32:17 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Reply-To: Sebastian Kuzminsky s...@highlab.com, Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Guidance on usb comp On 02/24/2011 12:53 PM, Frank Tkalcevic wrote: The pokeys makers approached me to add support for it to hidcomp, but given how little spare time I have, it was too much work. What would be involved in getting it to work? When I tested it I only tested the analog inputs then lost track of it for a while. In their joystick mode, they report 32 buttons and 8 axis, regardless of how many buttons and axis are connected. If you want to access all the other inputs and outputs, you need to write code to decode and build the packets defined in their specification. It's not a huge project, but it has to be done, then supported. I'm currently talking to PoLabs (the makers of PoKeys) about doing this work for them. We'll see what comes of it. -- Sebastian Kuzminsky the moon is full here every night / and i can bathe here in his light the leaves will bury every year / and no one knows i'm gone -- tom waits -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Guidance on usb comp
Kirk, Also depending on possible risk hardware/ software implementations are required to be control reliable. Technically emc or mach or other controllers would fail that requirement unless certified by a testing lab like tuv --Original Message-- From: Kirk Wallace To: Work To: Emc mail list Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Guidance on usb comp Sent: Feb 24, 2011 3:53 PM On Thu, 2011-02-24 at 17:29 +, Jean-Paul Moniz wrote: Phil Safety should always be a hardware solution. Safety software applications should be tested and certified to international standards. Signals back to a controller are just a formality imho In the case of emc. The pc is the controller and not hacked up at all. However if it was a windows os there would be lots of hacking going on to get something that appears to be real time Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry In a proper e-stop system, EMC2 (or other) is a peer to other e-stop triggers. EMC2 can trigger an e-stop, as well as BRB's, or other sensors, but the e-stop loop should bring the power supplies, drives, etcetera to a safe condition independently of EMC2, Windows or other software, unless it can not be avoided. An e-stop search found: http://www.hs-compliance.com/uploaded/documents/THE%20EMERGENCY%20STOP.pdf (BTW, It would not bother me at all to see the Sent by my newfangled device go away. Apparently, it is part of the user's signature and is easy to change. Why give them free advertising on your dime?) -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Guidance on usb comp
So, No matter what I try I can't seem to get the pokeys55 board to play nice with emc and hal using hal_input or hid_comp. Looking at seb's shuttle comp I'm thinking that a comp could be written for this device. I have the protocol spec for the pokeys. Could I use hidraw to send request packets to the board and then receive the expected response? I would think this is relatively straight forward for some but not so clear for myself Thanks Jp aka emcrules Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Guidance on usb comp
Sebastian, The pokeys docs list 3 hid instances however I can only ever see two. The pokeys is configured in windows using its own software package where users map various input types to either keyboard or joystick functions. The keyboard hid seems to work fine with hal_input but its the joystick_hid implementation I seem to have an issue with. I can see my hal_input pins within emc but they will change state once and then stop responding. If I unplug and plug the pokeys and restart emc the same cycle repeats. Keyboard_ hid with this device is a waste in my opinion. Why copy a input device that's already connected. The joystick_hid only allows for digital and analog inputs. The goal would be to gain access to the higher functions of the pokeys like matrix keypads, lcd display, encoders and others, Of the 3 hid instances one is used to send commands to the pokeys. Using those commands one could gain direct access to all of those functions bypassing key and button mapping. Thoughts? --Original Message-- From: Sebastian Kuzminsky Sender: high...@q.com To: Work To: Emc mail list ReplyTo: Sebastian Kuzminsky Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Guidance on usb comp Sent: Feb 23, 2011 4:19 PM On 02/23/2011 01:31 PM, Jean-Paul Moniz wrote: So, No matter what I try I can't seem to get the pokeys55 board to play nice with emc and hal using hal_input or hid_comp. Looking at seb's shuttle comp I'm thinking that a comp could be written for this device. I have the protocol spec for the pokeys. Could I use hidraw to send request packets to the board and then receive the expected response? I would think this is relatively straight forward for some but not so clear for myself I bet it can be made to work :-) The PoKeys55 docs claim that the device implements a standard USB HID keyboard and joystick. Based on that, I'd expect it to just work with hal_input. Is that not the case? -- Sebastian Kuzminsky the moon is full here every night / and i can bathe here in his light the leaves will bury every year / and no one knows i'm gone -- tom waits Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Guidance on usb comp
Steve I agree. My point was that for the pokeys it was a waste. The whole point of using this device is to unload HMI type I/O from more expensive mesa or other hardware. If I was just looking for a device to emulate a keyboard I probably bought exactly what you have. The exercise I am looking at is to bypass the key mapping and just map the physical I/O to hal. From there the user can decide where to send the signals. Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 23:32:19 To: EMC2-Users-Listemc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Reply-To: st...@pilotltd.net, Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Guidance on usb comp On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 22:26:22 +, you wrote: Keyboard_ hid with this device is a waste in my opinion. Why copy a input device that's already connected. My Xkeys based pendant is basically a programmable USB keypad. The 20 buttons simply emulate various keyboard shortcuts in axis, and double up as a numeric keypad. It uses keyboard_hid. Not a waste - it's small, convenient and totally coolant and swarf proof - more than can be said of a keyboard :) Steve Blackmore -- -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
