Re: [Emc-users] 5-axis machining

2008-12-27 Thread Kent A. Reed
Gentle persons:

First, let me apologize for flitting on and off this list. I won't bore 
you with the details, but on-going health crises in two generations of 
my family are making a hash of my concentration on the fun stuff.

Recently, Dave Engvall pointed out my wrong-headed characterization of 
Synergy's capability...
 Message: 3
 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:21:00 -0800
 From: Dave Engvall dengv...@charter.net
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 5-axis machining (was Re: Testing
   
 ...
 Hi Kent,

 I beg to differ. Synergy does offer 4  5 axis.
 Look under Variational-4/5 axis- Four Axis Mill or Five Axis Mill

 If you need 4/5 axis this is probably the least cost way to get there.

 And no ... I don't have a financial interest in Weber Systems.

 Dave
   

Thanks, Dave.

Even though I had given up on evaluating Synergy because I had different 
objectives, I should have noticed that right on the Weber website under 
product info are the claims 4-axis and 5-axis, indexing and tool 
positioning and multi-axis turning. That should have been enough to 
make me dig deeper.

As you say, this may well be the least-cost way to get there.

My free-evaluation period for Synergy has expired. Have you tried these 
capabilities, on a real machine or on a simulator?

Regards,
Kent

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[Emc-users] 5-axis machining (was Re: Testing)

2008-12-11 Thread Kent A. Reed
Risto:

So far, the answers to your question about generating 5-axis g-code 
appear to sidestep the core difficulty ---

In general, knowing the 3D geometry of a part tells you next to nothing 
about making the part. If the part is complex enough to require 5-axis 
machining, then it is likely to be complex enough to require a true CAM 
(computer-aided machining) program to generate usable g-code no matter 
what exchange file format you use to extract the part definition from 
your CAD program. These CAM programs depend heavily on knowing the 
available machining operations and the kinds of features that result 
from them.

Most of us get away with trivial g-code generators because we are 
cutting trivial (from a programming perspective) 2-1/2D parts that can 
be aligned with the Cartesian axes of our machines and our cutting tool 
can only go up and down.

To give a simple example of my concern, suppose I want to create a 
TinkerToy hub, basically a cylindrical pillbox with a thru-hole along 
its principal axis and eight radial blind holes equally spaced around 
the circumference of the cylinder. An apprentice machinist ought to be 
able to whip one of these out by inspection of a shop drawing, even if 
all he or she has at hand is a drill press, a vise, and a basic 
knowledge of layout. I could emulate the same process on a manual 4- or 
5-axis milling machine (3 Cartesian axes + a rotary table + possibly a 
rotary head) but to automate the process I have to be able to tell my 
g-code generator what motions and operations are available on my 
machine, which are useful for creating the features of this part, and 
which g-code cycles are needed to execute them.

Previously on this list, we have mentioned CAD/CAM program suites such 
as Synergy (www.webersys.com) [MS Windows and Linux] and Alibre 
Design/CAM (www.alibre.com) [MS Windows only] because they provide many 
good capabilities and because their full capabilities can be evaluated 
freely. To my limited knowledge, neither provides for 5-axis machining 
operations but your mileage may vary. A quick Google search turned up 
FeatureCAM (www.featurecam.com). It looks very, very good. It also looks 
very expensive (typical for industrial software), and apparently it uses 
a dongle-based license key system (gack! I swore years ago that I'd 
never touch a dongle again).

Sorry if I'm bloviating, but with the wide readership of this list, you 
never know who understands the limitations and strengths of various 
software strategies being discussed.

Good luck.

Regards,
Kent

PS - By sheer coincidence, only last week I was at our local Borders 
Bookstore thumbing through a newly available book entitled Secrets of 
5-Axis Machining by Karlo Apro and published by Industrial Press, 
October 2008 (ISBN13: 9780831133757, ISBN: 0831133759, BINC: 9570839). 
It was too expensive, about $55, for me to buy on a whim, but it 
contains very handsome illustrations of 5-axis processes and comes with 
a CD containing avi files, high quality illustrations, and sample 
parts, to quote from Borders website.


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Re: [Emc-users] 5-axis machining (was Re: Testing)

2008-12-11 Thread Dave Engvall

On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Kent A. Reed wrote:

 Risto:


  big snip
 Previously on this list, we have mentioned CAD/CAM program suites such
 as Synergy (www.webersys.com) [MS Windows and Linux] and Alibre
 Design/CAM (www.alibre.com) [MS Windows only] because they provide  
 many
 good capabilities and because their full capabilities can be evaluated
 freely. To my limited knowledge, neither provides for 5-axis machining
 operations but your mileage may vary. A quick Google search turned up
 FeatureCAM (www.featurecam.com). It looks very, very good. It also  
 looks
 very expensive (typical for industrial software), and apparently it  
 uses
 a dongle-based license key system (gack! I swore years ago that I'd
 never touch a dongle again).


 Good luck.

 Regards,
 Kent

Hi Kent,

I beg to differ. Synergy does offer 4  5 axis.
Look under Variational-4/5 axis- Four Axis Mill or Five Axis Mill

If you need 4/5 axis this is probably the least cost way to get there.

And no ... I don't have a financial interest in Weber Systems.

Dave

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