Re: [Emc-users] CANopen configuration files, CiA 309-3 --> battery charing like home brewn mash, nothing about CiA 309-3?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 19 March 2019 15:32:40 Nicklas Karlsson wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 19:03:07 -0400
>
> Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > On Sunday 17 March 2019 17:56:02 Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > > So once every 1/2 second a message starting with 0x40A shows up
> > > > on the bus and everyone sees it.  The Charger and in this case
> > > > also a small display are the only ones interested in it.   The
> > > > charger uses the information to set charge on/off, voltage and
> > > > current.  The display grabs the information and shows what the
> > > > current charge voltage and max current are set to.
> > > >
> > > > The charger also reports in a different message what it measures
> > > > for battery voltage and what the current charge current is and
> > > > it reports if it's enabled.  That's all identified by the Object
> > > > Dictionary entries at 18xx and 1Axx.
> > >
> > > I am familiar with CANopen communication and also to some degree
> > > battery charging. The old style open Lead-acid batteries should
> > > bubble like home brewn mash before they are done.
> >
> > Fraid not Nik. And this is TL;DR, but read it anyway. LA batteries
> > might bubble gently when being heavily charged, but every bubble is
> > electrolite lost forever and its hard on the plates.
>
> You have to refill.
>
Only if you brew them with an overcharge. I try not to if I have the 
means to control it accurately.

> > Someone in the distant past at kxne-tv had put a 10 amp charger on a
> > pair of 220 AH truck batteries with a 47 ohm 5 watt resistor in
> > series, so they were getting about 600 ma as a trickle charge into
> > the two of them in parallel. So they were boiling at a good rate.
> > ...
>
> You have to stop then they bubble like home brewn mash, at least after
> a while. They should not bubble during trickle charge.

And for those huge new batteries, a 10 ma charge was enough to make them 
bubble, albeit slowly. The alternator regulator was not adjustable and 
it took nominally 30 minutes for the last bubble to come up as it 
overcharged them pretty hard while it was getting its weekly exercise. 
15.1 volts is way too much in a 65F garage where this was located. If it 
hadn't been a potted unit, I might have tried to turn it down.  In the 
next 7 years I dribbled most of a gallon of distilled in them for 
makeup. I shouldn't have had to add any. I cleaned & greased the posts 
about annually which is when I topped them off. Thats one thing that 
will wreck a voltage switching starter circuit as it will let the 
battery with a higher connection resistance go down and slowly sulfate 
just one battery. But that pair started it so fast it was always 
amazing, you hear the Bendix kick in, the first cylinder to hit tdc 
kicks it back out, its running.  The pot field gets tickled from the 
batteries as it goes past 1500 revs, that bangs the transfer switch and 
you have lights in under 2 seconds. We had a tank heater on the block, 
so it wasn't really cold when it picked up about 160 kw of load so the 
real thing never made it past about 1780 revs, rated at 150kw.  And that 
was with both klystrons running at about 40% OF normal beam current by 
an automatic signal to the transmitter that it was on standby power. 
Klystron based uhf transmitters are hungry beasts. At full power, the 
line draw was about 250 KWH.

Bandwidth goes in the toilet so color is washed out when the beam 
diameter is reduced, but you are at least on the air. We (KXNE-TV-19) 
were, by a wide margin, Wayne County Public powers biggest customer.

> > ... Since it was
> > started weekly for a 15 minute dry run, it never needed that charger
> > in the first place.
> >
> > > CiA 309-3 is to access a CANopen device over TCP/IP and as I added
> > > it could be used to access dictionary of devices connected to
> > > Linuxcnc.
>
> Nobody have anything to mention about CiA 309-3?

I don't personally know anything about it, sorry Nik. But you mentioned 
batteries...
>
> Nicklas Karlsson
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] CANopen configuration files, CiA 309-3 --> battery charing like home brewn mash, nothing about CiA 309-3?

[Nicklas Karlsson]

On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 19:03:07 -0400
Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Sunday 17 March 2019 17:56:02 Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> 
> > > ...
> > > So once every 1/2 second a message starting with 0x40A shows up on
> > > the bus and everyone sees it.  The Charger and in this case also a
> > > small display are the only ones interested in it.   The charger uses
> > > the information to set charge on/off, voltage and current.  The
> > > display grabs the information and shows what the current charge
> > > voltage and max current are set to.
> > >
> > > The charger also reports in a different message what it measures for
> > > battery voltage and what the current charge current is and it
> > > reports if it's enabled.  That's all identified by the Object
> > > Dictionary entries at 18xx and 1Axx.
> >
> > I am familiar with CANopen communication and also to some degree
> > battery charging. The old style open Lead-acid batteries should bubble
> > like home brewn mash before they are done.
> >
> Fraid not Nik. And this is TL;DR, but read it anyway. LA batteries might 
> bubble gently when being heavily charged, but every bubble is 
> electrolite lost forever and its hard on the plates.

You have to refill.

> Someone in the distant past at kxne-tv had put a 10 amp charger on a pair 
> of 220 AH truck batteries with a 47 ohm 5 watt resistor in series, so 
> they were getting about 600 ma as a trickle charge into the two of them 
> in parallel. So they were boiling at a good rate. ...

You have to stop then they bubble like home brewn mash, at least after a while. 
They should not bubble during trickle charge.

> ... Since it was 
> started weekly for a 15 minute dry run, it never needed that charger in 
> the first place.


> > CiA 309-3 is to access a CANopen device over TCP/IP and as I added it
> > could be used to access dictionary of devices connected to Linuxcnc.

Nobody have anything to mention about CiA 309-3?


Nicklas Karlsson


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