Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Mach3
On 1/4/2013 11:20 AM, Andrey wrote: > > > 2013, 13:46 UTC от andy pugh: > >> On 3 January 2013 13:36, Andrew< parallel.kinemat...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>> There are PWM outputs and encoder inputs in KFLOP >>> http://dynomotion.com/Help/SchematicsKFLOP/ConnectorsKFLOP.htm >>> >> I seem to have managed to overlook that, despite looking at that page. >> >> Does the servo PID run in Mach or on the Kflop in that situation? >> (And why would you use Mach and not Kmotion at that point?) >> >> >> -- >> atp >> > KFLOP accepts commands in the form of parametric polynomials from a > software such as Mach3, > and produce pulse trains that drive step& direction motors > or analog +- 10 in use KFLOP analog. > Much has not PID control block so PID control is exercised chip KFLOP > Similarly work boards Smooth Stepper and DSPMC/IP > > >Andrew > >> > Mach3 only has a time/position movement buffer available for a connection to external motion devices in the form of a circular buffer. The Mach3 planner loads the buffer with movement data. I suppose it could be viewed as a parametric polynomial. ;-) That type of motion interface is surprisingly common between PCs and intelligent motion devices, such as the Galil cards and I believe the Delta Tau cards, among others. I wrote a motion plug in for Mach3 a few years ago. Long ago Art, of Mach3, wrote up a long paper on how Mach3 functions internally and it is quite accurate. If anyone would like a copy of it, here it is: https://rapidshare.com/files/2310194634/Mach3Mysteries.pdf Dave -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Mach3
2013, 13:46 UTC от andy pugh : >On 3 January 2013 13:36, Andrew < parallel.kinemat...@gmail.com > wrote: > >> There are PWM outputs and encoder inputs in KFLOP >> http://dynomotion.com/Help/SchematicsKFLOP/ConnectorsKFLOP.htm > >I seem to have managed to overlook that, despite looking at that page. > >Does the servo PID run in Mach or on the Kflop in that situation? >(And why would you use Mach and not Kmotion at that point?) > > >-- >atp KFLOP accepts commands in the form of parametric polynomials from a software such as Mach3, and produce pulse trains that drive step & direction motors or analog +- 10 in use KFLOP analog. Much has not PID control block so PID control is exercised chip KFLOP Similarly work boards Smooth Stepper and DSPMC/IP Andrew > -- Master HTML5, CSS3, ASP.NET, MVC, AJAX, Knockout.js, Web API and much more. Get web development skills now with LearnDevNow - 350+ hours of step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122812 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Mach3
On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 02:47:33PM +0200, Andrew wrote: > > Actually, with KFLOP or another USB board Mach3 works with servos and > encoders. OK, but this has nothing to do with Bruce's original question, which was whether there is hardware he can set up that works with both LinuxCNC and Mach3 on a dual boot setup. The answer to that question is NO unless he uses step/dir servo drives and software step generation on a parallel port, which is a very lousy setup for EITHER software. Other than that answer, the rest of this about how well Mach works with some particular LinuxCNC-incompatible hardware or other is off topic for this list but has nevertheless been rehashed here many times. Please, let's restrain ourselves, as tempting as it is to argue about this. -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122712 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Mach3
None of this equipment/software is all that expensive. I have done a couple of commercial machines that run on Mach3. I have done more that run on LinuxCNC. Besides the obvious limitations of Mach3 vs LinuxCNC, to me the crux of the situation for me comes back to Open vs Closed source code. If you run into a problem with Mach3/4/whatever you are beholden to one set of developers to fix your issue. If they can't fix it, are busy, etc; you are screwed. If you run into a problem with LinuxCNC, you have a varaety of options. Including, fix the software yourself, find others who can fix it for you, etc. There are dozens of people (probably a lot more than that.) who at least dabble in the LinuxCNC source code. The methods of attaching external motion devices to Mach3 have long been established years ago and they all work basically the same way. There is example code on the web if you look for it. The other issue I would consider is stability. If you are happy with the existing Mach3 functionality and issues, fine. If not, and you are in waiting for "Mach3 to be fixed" mode, then you may have a long wait. (Ask any old Mach3 user.. about patience.) So I would look at the software for what it is NOW, not something that has been promised. Dave On 1/3/2013 10:55 AM, Andrew wrote: > 2013/1/3 andy pugh > > >> On 3 January 2013 13:36, Andrew wrote: >> >> >>> There are PWM outputs and encoder inputs in KFLOP >>> http://dynomotion.com/Help/SchematicsKFLOP/ConnectorsKFLOP.htm >>> >> I seem to have managed to overlook that, despite looking at that page. >> >> Does the servo PID run in Mach or on the Kflop in that situation? >> (And why would you use Mach and not Kmotion at that point?) >> >> > I guess that MAch only outputs the trajectory points into KFLOP. > I'm not really familiar with Kmotion. It is probably more simple than Mach. > > 2013/1/3 Dave > > >> Kflop. >> >> Mach3 has no realtime loop control suitable for closed loop servo control. >> >> > But why is it so bad? External hardware does the job even better. > Of course LCNC is much more configurable. And say 5i25+7i77 equals to KFLOP > in price and does more. But for a simple machine, for somebody used to > Mach... why not? > > So to answer the original question: LinuxCNC and Mach3 are two entirely > >> different animals; so No! >> >> Only if there were some Mach drivers for MESA cards. But there ain't, so >> > no :) > > Andrew > -- > Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, > MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current > with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft > MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: > http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122712 > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122712 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Mach3
2013/1/3 andy pugh > On 3 January 2013 13:36, Andrew wrote: > > > There are PWM outputs and encoder inputs in KFLOP > > http://dynomotion.com/Help/SchematicsKFLOP/ConnectorsKFLOP.htm > > I seem to have managed to overlook that, despite looking at that page. > > Does the servo PID run in Mach or on the Kflop in that situation? > (And why would you use Mach and not Kmotion at that point?) > I guess that MAch only outputs the trajectory points into KFLOP. I'm not really familiar with Kmotion. It is probably more simple than Mach. 2013/1/3 Dave > Kflop. > > Mach3 has no realtime loop control suitable for closed loop servo control. > But why is it so bad? External hardware does the job even better. Of course LCNC is much more configurable. And say 5i25+7i77 equals to KFLOP in price and does more. But for a simple machine, for somebody used to Mach... why not? So to answer the original question: LinuxCNC and Mach3 are two entirely > different animals; so No! > > Only if there were some Mach drivers for MESA cards. But there ain't, so no :) Andrew -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122712 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Mach3
On 1/3/2013 8:46 AM, andy pugh wrote: > On 3 January 2013 13:36, Andrew wrote: > > >> There are PWM outputs and encoder inputs in KFLOP >> http://dynomotion.com/Help/SchematicsKFLOP/ConnectorsKFLOP.htm >> > I seem to have managed to overlook that, despite looking at that page. > > Does the servo PID run in Mach or on the Kflop in that situation? > (And why would you use Mach and not Kmotion at that point?) > > > Kflop. Mach3 has no realtime loop control suitable for closed loop servo control. The only thing that we would consider to be "realtime", would be the Mach3 stepper driver. All other realtime aspects of Mach3 must run on external hardware. The reason is that Windows is not realtime. So to answer the original question: LinuxCNC and Mach3 are two entirely different animals; so No! Dave -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122712 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Mach3
On 3 January 2013 13:36, Andrew wrote: > There are PWM outputs and encoder inputs in KFLOP > http://dynomotion.com/Help/SchematicsKFLOP/ConnectorsKFLOP.htm I seem to have managed to overlook that, despite looking at that page. Does the servo PID run in Mach or on the Kflop in that situation? (And why would you use Mach and not Kmotion at that point?) -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122712 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Mach3
2013/1/3 andy pugh > On 3 January 2013 12:47, Andrew wrote: > > > Actually, with KFLOP or another USB board Mach3 works with servos and > > encoders. > > Are you sure? I can't see any mention of PWM or analogue voltage > outputs from a quick scan of the documentation. > > There are PWM outputs and encoder inputs in KFLOP http://dynomotion.com/Help/SchematicsKFLOP/ConnectorsKFLOP.htm And there's extra Kanalog board with DAC, ADC and other I/O http://dynomotion.com/Kanalog.html I have not used it, but it would be interesting to try. Andrew -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122712 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Mach3
On 3 January 2013 12:47, Andrew wrote: > Actually, with KFLOP or another USB board Mach3 works with servos and > encoders. Are you sure? I can't see any mention of PWM or analogue voltage outputs from a quick scan of the documentation. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122712 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Mach3
2013/1/3 Viesturs Lācis > AFAIK Mach3 is only good for step/dir control signal and forget about > any feedback from servos there > Actually, with KFLOP or another USB board Mach3 works with servos and encoders. Andrew -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122712 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Mach3
AFAIK Mach3 is only good for step/dir control signal and forget about any feedback from servos there. Not to mention 2 feedback devices for one motor, where LinuxCNC has working examples. Mesa hardware works beautifully with LinuxCNC, but Mach3 will not work with it - it works either with software stepgen through lpt port breakout boards (no EPP mode hardware with FPGA chips there as well) or with some USB motion control cards, and since USB is not working in realtime, USB by definition is not compatible with LinuxCNC. It looks to me that only way to have dual-cnc setup is to have open-loop (for cnc controller) step/dir system with software generated step signals and feedback loop closed in servo drive. My apologies, if I seem arrogant, but, based on the description of what hardware You have, I do not understand, why do You even consider Mach3, when there is LinuxCNC. Please, do not answer (unless in private email), because it will start another discussion :)) -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto 2013/1/3 Bruce Klawiter : > Is there hardware out there that would allow me to convert my Mill to run > both LinuxCNC and Mach3. I believe Mesa cards are used for either, and I > think you can do a duel boot PC so I thought maybe this could be done. > Mill currently has Anilam Crusader control, 140vdc servos, Glentec +/- 10v > analog servo amps, linear scales. > > Just wondering. > > -- > Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, > MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current > with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft > MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: > http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122712 > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122712 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Mach3
On 3 January 2013 12:00, Bruce Klawiter wrote: > Is there hardware out there that would allow me to convert my Mill to run > both LinuxCNC and Mach3 ... > Mill currently has Anilam Crusader control, 140vdc servos, Glentec +/- 10v > analog servo amps, linear scales. I don't _think_ that Mach can control any servo amps that don't have an internal position loop. ie, Mach does not have a software PID component equivalent to the one in LinuxCNC. However, I have been wrong before. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122712 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Mach3
Is there hardware out there that would allow me to convert my Mill to run both LinuxCNC and Mach3. I believe Mesa cards are used for either, and I think you can do a duel boot PC so I thought maybe this could be done. Mill currently has Anilam Crusader control, 140vdc servos, Glentec +/- 10v analog servo amps, linear scales. Just wondering. -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122712 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
