Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-04 Thread Steve Blackmore 
On Sun, 4 May 2014 05:05:53 -0400, you wrote:


>That sounds as if I ought to be able to cut a thread with a single tooth 
>carbide insertable, indexable tool then.

Yes - no problem, I have two holders permanently set up, one has a 60
deg ISO insert, the other a 55 degree single point insert. 

IF I could get near it, health problems and my son moving back for a
year mean the shop is full of junk, all piled up near the lathe & mill.
Only operational machine I have the moment is my Router, that's
elsewhere. Hopefully junk will be gone by September and my stomach
muscles will have healed enough to get back to some form of normality :)

Steve Blackmore
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-04 Thread Mark Wendt 
On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 3:33 PM, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 3 May 2014 13:53, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> > Looks good Andy, but the 9x looks as if it has 3x the room to do it in.
> > The gibs on the 7 are maybe 4mm thick, total. 3 hex head holdup bolts, 2
> > jack screws between them.
>
> That's posh! My 9x had no jacking screws, just three cross-head
> screws. The adjustment was by the screws being "not quite tight". Very
> nasty indeed, especially as they ran on a painted surface.
>
> --
> atp
>

Posh?  ;-)  I can't believe they painted the surface the gibs run against.
Is that true for all the 9X's?  Or maybe it was just overspray?

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-04 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Sunday 04 May 2014 04:59:17 Steve Blackmore did opine:

> On Sat, 3 May 2014 01:14:36 +0100, you wrote:
> >On 3 May 2014 00:53, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> >> But in grinding them down, its obvious I wall NOT have a good
> >> shoulder because the 8mm is just about the bottoms of the ball
> >> grooves.
> >
> >Rather than grinding, consider trying a CBN insert, and the fastest
> >spindle speed you can manage.
> >(Turning with CBN tips is closest to single-point grinding, if the
> >material isn't red hot and fizzing, you need more spindle speed).
> 
> You don't need CBN to turn ballscrews down. I've done dozens of them,
> ordinary steel cutting carbide inserts work just fine. Just need to take
> a decent initial cut to get through the hardened surface. Stainless
> steel type feeds and speeds work fine on the surface layer and once you
> are through they are quite soft and easy to work. They centre drill
> easily then you can use the tailstock for support on the long machined
> and threaded end.

If your tailstock is aligned. For starters mine is about .020" high, and 
gets worse when I run the barrel out.
 
> I normally put them in the 4 jaw, take 0.25 to 0.5mm off first pass with
> a CNMG type tool then switch to a DNMG for subsequent passes.
> 
> Steve Blackmore

That sounds as if I ought to be able to cut a thread with a single tooth 
carbide insertable, indexable tool then.

Thanks Steve.
> 
> 
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Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-04 Thread Steve Blackmore 
On Sat, 3 May 2014 01:14:36 +0100, you wrote:

>On 3 May 2014 00:53, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
>> But in grinding them down, its obvious I wall NOT have a good shoulder
>> because the 8mm is just about the bottoms of the ball grooves.
>
>Rather than grinding, consider trying a CBN insert, and the fastest
>spindle speed you can manage.
>(Turning with CBN tips is closest to single-point grinding, if the
>material isn't red hot and fizzing, you need more spindle speed).

You don't need CBN to turn ballscrews down. I've done dozens of them,
ordinary steel cutting carbide inserts work just fine. Just need to take
a decent initial cut to get through the hardened surface. Stainless
steel type feeds and speeds work fine on the surface layer and once you
are through they are quite soft and easy to work. They centre drill
easily then you can use the tailstock for support on the long machined
and threaded end. 

I normally put them in the 4 jaw, take 0.25 to 0.5mm off first pass with
a CNMG type tool then switch to a DNMG for subsequent passes.

Steve Blackmore
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-03 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 03 May 2014 21:55:31 andy pugh did opine:

> On 3 May 2014 13:53, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Looks good Andy, but the 9x looks as if it has 3x the room to do it
> > in. The gibs on the 7 are maybe 4mm thick, total. 3 hex head holdup
> > bolts, 2 jack screws between them.
> 
> That's posh! My 9x had no jacking screws, just three cross-head
> screws. The adjustment was by the screws being "not quite tight". Very
> nasty indeed, especially as they ran on a painted surface.

No wonder you felt like it had to be fixed.  I'd be willing to bet you were 
trying to determine how much of the guy that designed it ran down his 
mothers leg.  Sheesh.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-03 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 03 May 2014 21:27:59 andy pugh did opine:

> On 3 May 2014 13:53, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Looks good Andy, but the 9x looks as if it has 3x the room to do it
> > in. The gibs on the 7 are maybe 4mm thick, total. 3 hex head holdup
> > bolts, 2 jack screws between them.
> 
> That's posh! My 9x had no jacking screws, just three cross-head
> screws. The adjustment was by the screws being "not quite tight". Very
> nasty indeed, especially as they ran on a painted surface.

I got a better look at it today, not hex head, but socket head, and they 
clear the drive screw about 1/16". IOW, no way in hell to do any fine 
tuning.

Then to top that, I was grinding the 8mm screw down to 8mm so it would fit 
the bearing boss, got it within 20 thou & switched to a diamond disk with 
very slow feed rates & per cycle advance of .0005". Checking my progress, I 
found a taper, so I put a compensation taper in the slow stroke, measured 
taper, added some more, measure taper, and about 30-40 reloads later as I 
kept adding taper, I had .018" of taper in 2.25" of screw, BIG at the 
chuck.  Not correct, but it now fits the bearing boss ok.

The only thing that can do that is the head is slewed off the line of the 
bed and carriage travel.  So when I write the code to do the extension for 
the X screw, I'll start with a 10 thou per inch taper, cutting smaller 
toward the chuck.

Thats way more out of kilter than lifting the headstock and slipping some 
alu foil on the front of the v-way on the left end, and the back of the v-
way on the right end.  It will take some serious shimming. Shimming that 
will probably never get done as its at least 2-3 hours disassembly to just 
get at its mounting bolts in the bottom of the bedway.  I can write 
corrective code easier.

Typical I guess, I have not found anything truly square on this thing yet.  
Even the v-way angles and the groove to fit it in the bottom of the 
carriage were out, probably 5 degrees!  Tightening a front gib screw would 
lift the rear of the carriage about 3/16" off the back of the bed! That I 
fixed for the most part, teasing the angles a bit in the mill years ago.

It was one of my first machinery buys, and is pushing 18 yo now.  I'd hope 
QC has been improved over the years.

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-03 Thread andy pugh 
On 3 May 2014 13:53, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Looks good Andy, but the 9x looks as if it has 3x the room to do it in.
> The gibs on the 7 are maybe 4mm thick, total. 3 hex head holdup bolts, 2
> jack screws between them.

That's posh! My 9x had no jacking screws, just three cross-head
screws. The adjustment was by the screws being "not quite tight". Very
nasty indeed, especially as they ran on a painted surface.

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-03 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 03 May 2014 10:45:16 Mark Wendt did opine:

> On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > On Saturday 03 May 2014 09:54:35 Mark Wendt did opine:
> > > Yeah, you have to take the rack off in order to accurately measure
> > > the bed thickness.  Wasn't a big deal to get the rack off.
> > > 
> > > The filing is kinda like a lazy man's version of scraping.  Wasn't
> > > hard to do.  The bed at that point isn't hardened.  It was more
> > > time consuming than difficult.
> > > 
> > > I knew going in that the mini lathe was going to take a bit of work
> > > to bring it up to snuff.  I also knew that even when all was said
> > > and done, it wouldn't be a miniature Monarch.  It is what it is, a
> > > relatively inexpensive way to turn some metal, that could be made
> > > more accurate with a little work.
> > > 
> > > Mark
> > 
> > Ahh, Mark, you may want to define what you call a "little" work. ;-)
> > With my back giving me hell, its more than a "little" work.  And I
> > tend to scratch the place where it itches worse first. This, OTOH,
> > may be that next itch however.
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene
> 
> Well, I differentiate a little from a lot by meaning I don't cob up a
> forge, melt the cast iron, pour the melted iron into the mould, then
> once cooled, machine away everything that doesn't look like a lathe
> bed...  ;-)
> 
> Mark

ROTFLMAO!  Pretty good definition if one has the forge makings. ;-)

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-03 Thread Mark Wendt 
On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 03 May 2014 09:54:35 Mark Wendt did opine:
>
>
> >
> > Yeah, you have to take the rack off in order to accurately measure the
> > bed thickness.  Wasn't a big deal to get the rack off.
> >
> > The filing is kinda like a lazy man's version of scraping.  Wasn't hard
> > to do.  The bed at that point isn't hardened.  It was more time
> > consuming than difficult.
> >
> > I knew going in that the mini lathe was going to take a bit of work to
> > bring it up to snuff.  I also knew that even when all was said and done,
> > it wouldn't be a miniature Monarch.  It is what it is, a relatively
> > inexpensive way to turn some metal, that could be made more accurate
> > with a little work.
> >
> > Mark
>
> Ahh, Mark, you may want to define what you call a "little" work. ;-)
> With my back giving me hell, its more than a "little" work.  And I tend to
> scratch the place where it itches worse first. This, OTOH, may be that next
> itch however.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Cheers, Gene
>

Well, I differentiate a little from a lot by meaning I don't cob up a
forge, melt the cast iron, pour the melted iron into the mould, then once
cooled, machine away everything that doesn't look like a lathe bed...  ;-)

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-03 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 03 May 2014 09:54:35 Mark Wendt did opine:

> On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 9:35 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > On Saturday 03 May 2014 09:24:30 Mark Wendt did opine:
> > > Gene,
> > > 
> > > Turns out it wasn't too hard to find.  Here's the link to Rick's web
> > > site, which has links to both construction pics and drawings of the
> > > jig, gib and bracket:
> > > 
> > > http://warhammer.mcc.virginia.edu/ty/7x10/vault/Lathes/7x10-7x12-Pro
> > > ject s/TaperedSaddleGibs/
> > > 
> > > I was able to do this in an afternoon on a manual mill (the
> > > machining part).
> > > 
> > > This part took a little longer:
> > > 
> > > http://warhammer.mcc.virginia.edu/ty/7x10/vault/Lathes/7x10-7x12-Pro
> > > ject s/TaperedSaddleGibs/Bedways.html
> > > 
> > > All in all, I'm very satisfied with the snugness and smoothness of
> > > the machine now.  Much, much better than the gibs that came with
> > > the lathe.
> > > 
> > > Mark
> > 
> > At some point he mentions taking the rack off, and I've considered
> > that too since it is not being used, my "manual" controls are all
> > done from the keyboard.  That would give additional room to widen the
> > gib bits which would seem like a plus to me.  Depending on how much
> > the bed lip thickness varies, (and I already know it does, thicker
> > towards the tailstock on mine even after filing the serial number
> > flat) the filing idea seems to be a good one, but then need a way to
> > restore the roughness that holds an oil film, that I haven't figured
> > out.
> > 
> > Its funny how we expect a sows ear priced piece of machinery to be
> > fitted & finish like a Bentley priced version isn't it?  Tain't gonna
> > happen in this lifetime folks.
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene
> 
> Yeah, you have to take the rack off in order to accurately measure the
> bed thickness.  Wasn't a big deal to get the rack off.
> 
> The filing is kinda like a lazy man's version of scraping.  Wasn't hard
> to do.  The bed at that point isn't hardened.  It was more time
> consuming than difficult.
> 
> I knew going in that the mini lathe was going to take a bit of work to
> bring it up to snuff.  I also knew that even when all was said and done,
> it wouldn't be a miniature Monarch.  It is what it is, a relatively
> inexpensive way to turn some metal, that could be made more accurate
> with a little work.
> 
> Mark

Ahh, Mark, you may want to define what you call a "little" work. ;-)
With my back giving me hell, its more than a "little" work.  And I tend to 
scratch the place where it itches worse first. This, OTOH, may be that next 
itch however.

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS

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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-03 Thread Mark Wendt 
On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 9:35 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 03 May 2014 09:24:30 Mark Wendt did opine:
>
> >
> > Gene,
> >
> > Turns out it wasn't too hard to find.  Here's the link to Rick's web
> > site, which has links to both construction pics and drawings of the
> > jig, gib and bracket:
> >
> > http://warhammer.mcc.virginia.edu/ty/7x10/vault/Lathes/7x10-7x12-Project
> > s/TaperedSaddleGibs/
> >
> > I was able to do this in an afternoon on a manual mill (the machining
> > part).
> >
> > This part took a little longer:
> >
> > http://warhammer.mcc.virginia.edu/ty/7x10/vault/Lathes/7x10-7x12-Project
> > s/TaperedSaddleGibs/Bedways.html
> >
> > All in all, I'm very satisfied with the snugness and smoothness of the
> > machine now.  Much, much better than the gibs that came with the lathe.
> >
> > Mark
>
> At some point he mentions taking the rack off, and I've considered that too
> since it is not being used, my "manual" controls are all done from the
> keyboard.  That would give additional room to widen the gib bits which
> would seem like a plus to me.  Depending on how much the bed lip thickness
> varies, (and I already know it does, thicker towards the tailstock on mine
> even after filing the serial number flat) the filing idea seems to be a
> good one, but then need a way to restore the roughness that holds an oil
> film, that I haven't figured out.
>
> Its funny how we expect a sows ear priced piece of machinery to be fitted &
> finish like a Bentley priced version isn't it?  Tain't gonna happen in this
> lifetime folks.
>
> Cheers, Gene
>


Yeah, you have to take the rack off in order to accurately measure the bed
thickness.  Wasn't a big deal to get the rack off.

The filing is kinda like a lazy man's version of scraping.  Wasn't hard to
do.  The bed at that point isn't hardened.  It was more time consuming than
difficult.

I knew going in that the mini lathe was going to take a bit of work to
bring it up to snuff.  I also knew that even when all was said and done, it
wouldn't be a miniature Monarch.  It is what it is, a relatively
inexpensive way to turn some metal, that could be made more accurate with a
little work.

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-03 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 03 May 2014 09:24:30 Mark Wendt did opine:

> On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > On Saturday 03 May 2014 08:54:31 Mark Wendt did opine:
> > > Andy,
> > > 
> > > Looks very similar to the ones I made for my 7 x 12 using a design
> > > borrowed from Rick Kruger (now a good fly fishing buddy of mine).
> > > Gene, if you feel like making tapered gibs fer the leetle guy, I can
> > > dig up the like to the drawings for ya.  I may be able to talk Rick
> > > out of the CAD drawings if he still has them tucked away somewhere.
> > > 
> > > Mark
> > 
> > Those could sure serve as a "tapered gibs for dummies" guide.  Check
> > it out if its not too much trouble.
> > 
> > Thanks Mark.
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene
> 
> Gene,
> 
> Turns out it wasn't too hard to find.  Here's the link to Rick's web
> site, which has links to both construction pics and drawings of the
> jig, gib and bracket:
> 
> http://warhammer.mcc.virginia.edu/ty/7x10/vault/Lathes/7x10-7x12-Project
> s/TaperedSaddleGibs/
> 
> I was able to do this in an afternoon on a manual mill (the machining
> part).
> 
> This part took a little longer:
> 
> http://warhammer.mcc.virginia.edu/ty/7x10/vault/Lathes/7x10-7x12-Project
> s/TaperedSaddleGibs/Bedways.html
> 
> All in all, I'm very satisfied with the snugness and smoothness of the
> machine now.  Much, much better than the gibs that came with the lathe.
> 
> Mark

At some point he mentions taking the rack off, and I've considered that too 
since it is not being used, my "manual" controls are all done from the 
keyboard.  That would give additional room to widen the gib bits which 
would seem like a plus to me.  Depending on how much the bed lip thickness 
varies, (and I already know it does, thicker towards the tailstock on mine 
even after filing the serial number flat) the filing idea seems to be a 
good one, but then need a way to restore the roughness that holds an oil 
film, that I haven't figured out.

Its funny how we expect a sows ear priced piece of machinery to be fitted & 
finish like a Bentley priced version isn't it?  Tain't gonna happen in this 
lifetime folks.

> 
> -- "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For
> FREE Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos. 
> Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform
> available. Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for
> free."
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Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS

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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-03 Thread Mark Wendt 
On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 03 May 2014 08:54:31 Mark Wendt did opine:
>
> > Andy,
> >
> > Looks very similar to the ones I made for my 7 x 12 using a design
> > borrowed from Rick Kruger (now a good fly fishing buddy of mine).
> > Gene, if you feel like making tapered gibs fer the leetle guy, I can
> > dig up the like to the drawings for ya.  I may be able to talk Rick out
> > of the CAD drawings if he still has them tucked away somewhere.
> >
> > Mark
>
> Those could sure serve as a "tapered gibs for dummies" guide.  Check it out
> if its not too much trouble.
>
> Thanks Mark.
>
> Cheers, Gene
>


Gene,

Turns out it wasn't too hard to find.  Here's the link to Rick's web site,
which has links to both construction pics and drawings of the jig, gib and
bracket:

http://warhammer.mcc.virginia.edu/ty/7x10/vault/Lathes/7x10-7x12-Projects/TaperedSaddleGibs/

I was able to do this in an afternoon on a manual mill (the machining part).

This part took a little longer:

http://warhammer.mcc.virginia.edu/ty/7x10/vault/Lathes/7x10-7x12-Projects/TaperedSaddleGibs/Bedways.html

All in all, I'm very satisfied with the snugness and smoothness of the
machine now.  Much, much better than the gibs that came with the lathe.

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-03 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 03 May 2014 08:54:31 Mark Wendt did opine:

> On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 6:01 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
> > On 3 May 2014 04:37, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > > Because the carriage isn't front weighted enough (the x motor is on
> > > the rear), it does tend to turn about a thou as it rises off the
> > > v-way to
> > 
> > bring
> > 
> > > the front gib in solid restraining contact, and that is best handled
> > 
> > with a
> > 
> > > back out move before the retrace move.  Adjusting those gibs is a
> > > genuine chore as the only way to access the adjustments is to drop
> > > the apron coupling and run the apron and nut out of the way.
> > 
> > Here is a set of pictures of how I made some tapered gibs for my 9x
> > (which is a stretched 7x)
> > https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > atp
> > If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> > http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
> 
> Andy,
> 
> Looks very similar to the ones I made for my 7 x 12 using a design
> borrowed from Rick Kruger (now a good fly fishing buddy of mine). 
> Gene, if you feel like making tapered gibs fer the leetle guy, I can
> dig up the like to the drawings for ya.  I may be able to talk Rick out
> of the CAD drawings if he still has them tucked away somewhere.
> 
> Mark

Those could sure serve as a "tapered gibs for dummies" guide.  Check it out 
if its not too much trouble.

Thanks Mark.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-03 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 03 May 2014 08:33:16 andy pugh did opine:

> On 3 May 2014 04:37, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Because the carriage isn't front weighted enough (the x motor is on
> > the rear), it does tend to turn about a thou as it rises off the
> > v-way to bring the front gib in solid restraining contact, and that
> > is best handled with a back out move before the retrace move. 
> > Adjusting those gibs is a genuine chore as the only way to access the
> > adjustments is to drop the apron coupling and run the apron and nut
> > out of the way.
> 
> Here is a set of pictures of how I made some tapered gibs for my 9x
> (which is a stretched 7x)
> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs

Looks good Andy, but the 9x looks as if it has 3x the room to do it in.  
The gibs on the 7 are maybe 4mm thick, total. 3 hex head holdup bolts, 2 
jack screws between them. Just getting an allen wrench into the jack screws 
needs a really short arm wrench because they don't clear the Z screw at all 
well.  Very poor design.  I saw someone else had done that, on a 7x but 
they first had to machine a set of  holder jigs.  By doing that, with the 
taper built into the jig, it looked like it worked well. Even if I could 
start with a 3/8" bar, the brass would still be pretty thin.  But its 
certainly one of those do it in due time projects.  And I do have the brass 
already, the last time I considered that, I hadn't yet tripped over a 
suitable brass bar. Thanks for the reminder.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-03 Thread Mark Wendt 
On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 7:26 AM, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 3 May 2014 12:08, Mark Wendt  wrote:
>
> > Looks very similar to the ones I made for my 7 x 12 using a design
> borrowed
> > from Rick Kruger (now a good fly fishing buddy of mine).  Gene, if you
> feel
> > like making tapered gibs fer the leetle guy, I can dig up the like to the
> > drawings for ya.
>
> One thing I will point out about the sequence shown in my example,
> there is no careful setup needed, no sine-bars etc.
> Because the holder and the slider are faced-off as a unit, then the
> actual angle becomes almost irrelevant.
>
> --
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>


That's similar to the way mine were made.  The angle isn't really critical
as long as the holder and slider have the identical angle.  Rick's design
used a jig made by milling a piece of bar stock with a small piece of round
stock under one end, and then the holder and slider are machined on the jig.

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-03 Thread andy pugh 
On 3 May 2014 12:08, Mark Wendt  wrote:

> Looks very similar to the ones I made for my 7 x 12 using a design borrowed
> from Rick Kruger (now a good fly fishing buddy of mine).  Gene, if you feel
> like making tapered gibs fer the leetle guy, I can dig up the like to the
> drawings for ya.

One thing I will point out about the sequence shown in my example,
there is no careful setup needed, no sine-bars etc.
Because the holder and the slider are faced-off as a unit, then the
actual angle becomes almost irrelevant.

-- 
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If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-03 Thread Mark Wendt 
On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 6:01 AM, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 3 May 2014 04:37, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Because the carriage isn't front weighted enough (the x motor is on the
> > rear), it does tend to turn about a thou as it rises off the v-way to
> bring
> > the front gib in solid restraining contact, and that is best handled
> with a
> > back out move before the retrace move.  Adjusting those gibs is a genuine
> > chore as the only way to access the adjustments is to drop the apron
> > coupling and run the apron and nut out of the way.
>
> Here is a set of pictures of how I made some tapered gibs for my 9x
> (which is a stretched 7x)
> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs
>
>
> --
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>


Andy,

Looks very similar to the ones I made for my 7 x 12 using a design borrowed
from Rick Kruger (now a good fly fishing buddy of mine).  Gene, if you feel
like making tapered gibs fer the leetle guy, I can dig up the like to the
drawings for ya.  I may be able to talk Rick out of the CAD drawings if he
still has them tucked away somewhere.

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-03 Thread Mark Wendt 
On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 9:06 PM, andy pugh  wrote:

>
> I doubt you have seen red hot swarf quite like this:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU14tfjUfQU
>
> Interestingly this video shows the same problem I have had, you need
> to have more back-out than normal or the tool drags on the return.
> Unless you have a very stiff machine then there will be more flex than
> normal, but that doesn't mean you can't hit size.
>
>
>
> --
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>


Great Yumpin' Yaysus!  I'd set my shop to fire doing that kinda cutting!
Very cool though.  Sounded like each pass was an interrupted cut though.

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-03 Thread andy pugh 
On 3 May 2014 04:37, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> Because the carriage isn't front weighted enough (the x motor is on the
> rear), it does tend to turn about a thou as it rises off the v-way to bring
> the front gib in solid restraining contact, and that is best handled with a
> back out move before the retrace move.  Adjusting those gibs is a genuine
> chore as the only way to access the adjustments is to drop the apron
> coupling and run the apron and nut out of the way.

Here is a set of pictures of how I made some tapered gibs for my 9x
(which is a stretched 7x)
https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs


-- 
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If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-02 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Friday 02 May 2014 22:47:13 andy pugh did opine:

> On 3 May 2014 01:43, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> >> (Turning with CBN tips is closest to single-point grinding, if the
> >> material isn't red hot and fizzing, you need more spindle speed).
> > 
> > Much of my tooling is indexable carbide inserts, so I'm fairly
> > familiar with red hot swarf, and they do cut better at the higher
> > temps, but that does not sound like CBN.  Define?
> 
> Cubic Boron Nitride, it tends to come as an insert in the insert:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/371055717060 for example has one darker tip.
> 
> I doubt you have seen red hot swarf quite like this:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU14tfjUfQU
> 
> Interestingly this video shows the same problem I have had, you need
> to have more back-out than normal or the tool drags on the return.
> Unless you have a very stiff machine then there will be more flex than
> normal, but that doesn't mean you can't hit size.
> 
> The last screw I cut was on the Colchester Student at the Motor Club,
> and it was a revelation.
> 
> > Also, these screws do not have countersinks in the ends, so I can't
> > put it between centers so I can hog it and stay at dimension.
> 
> You can probably add one, the middles are normally quite soft.

No, I don't have any inserts like that.  But the ones I do have are about 
the same price, north of $140 for a 10 pack.  As for a support center 
dimple, I can usually make those if I can get my tailstock well enough 
aligned as I do have some cheap center drills.  The tail stock adjusting 
facilities of a 7x12's tail stock aren't conducive to maintaining its 
alignment, and some of the error is vertical, it rises as I run the barrel 
out, which has no way to adjust at all short of scraping its base or the X 
sliders bottom.  Genuine POS...  I am probably accuracy ahead to just 
carefully set the 4 jaw, and expect to have to write a bit of X taper to 
compensate for headstock miss-alignment.  Too bad screw comp is one 
dimensional, lengthwise. :(

That might be best handled as an L10L2P1 R(+-)0.005?, or whatever R 
neutralizes it.  Once established, I could put that in the default startup 
of the .ini.  And doing 80 or 90 mm of the end of this screw would sure 
serve as a calibration run.  I used a dremel with its bigger flat diamond 
wheel for something like this in the past, so with the dremel on slow & 
screwed enough to clear the center mount, slow so the diamond doesn't get 
too hot, and the spindle idling at 200 rpm or less, it might take 2 or 3 
days but once I get it running straight, I can turn out the lights & get 
some sleep.

Humm, mount my .0001" dial indicator on the tool post, put a pad on the end 
to straddle the grooves, and running the carriage back and forth should 
give me a ball park error for setting the R.  Worth a try anyway.

Because the carriage isn't front weighted enough (the x motor is on the 
rear), it does tend to turn about a thou as it rises off the v-way to bring 
the front gib in solid restraining contact, and that is best handled with a 
back out move before the retrace move.  Adjusting those gibs is a genuine 
chore as the only way to access the adjustments is to drop the apron 
coupling and run the apron and nut out of the way.  Even then, getting the 
tools in there to do it is a PITA.

Wish I had a decent lathe in the first place.  Sigh...

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-02 Thread andy pugh 
On 3 May 2014 01:43, Gene Heskett  wrote:

>> (Turning with CBN tips is closest to single-point grinding, if the
>> material isn't red hot and fizzing, you need more spindle speed).
>
> Much of my tooling is indexable carbide inserts, so I'm fairly familiar
> with red hot swarf, and they do cut better at the higher temps, but that
> does not sound like CBN.  Define?

Cubic Boron Nitride, it tends to come as an insert in the insert:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371055717060 for example has one darker tip.

I doubt you have seen red hot swarf quite like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU14tfjUfQU

Interestingly this video shows the same problem I have had, you need
to have more back-out than normal or the tool drags on the return.
Unless you have a very stiff machine then there will be more flex than
normal, but that doesn't mean you can't hit size.

The last screw I cut was on the Colchester Student at the Motor Club,
and it was a revelation.

> Also, these screws do not have countersinks in the ends, so I can't put it
> between centers so I can hog it and stay at dimension.

You can probably add one, the middles are normally quite soft.

-- 
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http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-02 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Friday 02 May 2014 20:33:51 andy pugh did opine:

> On 3 May 2014 00:53, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > But in grinding them down, its obvious I wall NOT have a good shoulder
> > because the 8mm is just about the bottoms of the ball grooves.
> 
> Rather than grinding, consider trying a CBN insert, and the fastest
> spindle speed you can manage.
> (Turning with CBN tips is closest to single-point grinding, if the
> material isn't red hot and fizzing, you need more spindle speed).

Much of my tooling is indexable carbide inserts, so I'm fairly familiar 
with red hot swarf, and they do cut better at the higher temps, but that 
does not sound like CBN.  Define?

Also, these screws do not have countersinks in the ends, so I can't put it 
between centers so I can hog it and stay at dimension.   Even to use a 
diamond disk in a dremel, I'll probably have to write a compensatory taper 
in the grinding code.

> > I am inclined to make a sleeve about 12 or 13mm OD, and at least 10mm
> > long, and a bit small so I can heat it and hopefully drive it against
> > the shoulder,
> 
> Why bother making it so tight? If the aspect ratio is long enough then
> it can't help sitting square.

True, but I've no clue how hard these screws are, and would like to have it 
snug enough that it can't move & peen the joint between the sleeve and the 
screws thread.  That would have me chasing backlash that comes & goes.

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-02 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Friday 02 May 2014 20:28:42 jeremy youngs did opine:

> a pic?

I have one in the camera, but I'm a bit under the weather, too much sugar 
and too many sugar pills today.  I'll get 2 more of the old screw, Its 
rusty, and the OEM bearing boss tomorrow and put them on my web page, 
posting the link.
> 
> 
> jeremy youngs
> 
> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 7:53 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> > 
> > The screws I have to put in this "used to be a micromill", are
> > 8mm2.5's and have an outer diameter of about 9.25mm.
> > 
> > I intend to turn them down to 8mm to fit in the existing bearing
> > bosses, but with ball bearing thrust washers with an 8mm bore.
> > 
> > But in grinding them down, its obvious I wall NOT have a good shoulder
> > because the 8mm is just about the bottoms of the ball grooves.
> > 
> > This means I will not have a good shoulder all the way around, and
> > that implies that the ball thrust washers may tip.
> > 
> > I am inclined to make a sleeve about 12 or 13mm OD, and at least 10mm
> > long, and a bit small so I can heat it and hopefully drive it against
> > the shoulder, and that it in turn will prevent the thrust washer from
> > tilting. That would involve driving it around 80mm from the end of
> > the screw.  No clue if a shrink fitted sleeve could be driven that
> > far in one blow of a dead blow hammer.
> > 
> > But I don't have any better ideas ATM.  Anybody else have an idea to
> > offer?


Cheers, Gene
-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-02 Thread andy pugh 
On 3 May 2014 00:53, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> But in grinding them down, its obvious I wall NOT have a good shoulder
> because the 8mm is just about the bottoms of the ball grooves.

Rather than grinding, consider trying a CBN insert, and the fastest
spindle speed you can manage.
(Turning with CBN tips is closest to single-point grinding, if the
material isn't red hot and fizzing, you need more spindle speed).

> I am inclined to make a sleeve about 12 or 13mm OD, and at least 10mm long,
> and a bit small so I can heat it and hopefully drive it against the
> shoulder,

Why bother making it so tight? If the aspect ratio is long enough then
it can't help sitting square.

-- 
atp
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http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-02 Thread jeremy youngs 
a pic?



jeremy youngs


On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 7:53 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Greetings all;
>
> The screws I have to put in this "used to be a micromill", are 8mm2.5's and
> have an outer diameter of about 9.25mm.
>
> I intend to turn them down to 8mm to fit in the existing bearing bosses,
> but with ball bearing thrust washers with an 8mm bore.
>
> But in grinding them down, its obvious I wall NOT have a good shoulder
> because the 8mm is just about the bottoms of the ball grooves.
>
> This means I will not have a good shoulder all the way around, and that
> implies that the ball thrust washers may tip.
>
> I am inclined to make a sleeve about 12 or 13mm OD, and at least 10mm long,
> and a bit small so I can heat it and hopefully drive it against the
> shoulder, and that it in turn will prevent the thrust washer from tilting.
> That would involve driving it around 80mm from the end of the screw.  No
> clue if a shrink fitted sleeve could be driven that far in one blow of a
> dead blow hammer.
>
> But I don't have any better ideas ATM.  Anybody else have an idea to offer?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Cheers, Gene
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
> US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS
>
>
> --
> "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE
> Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos.  Get
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[Emc-users] Question on screw machining

2014-05-02 Thread Gene Heskett 
Greetings all;

The screws I have to put in this "used to be a micromill", are 8mm2.5's and 
have an outer diameter of about 9.25mm.

I intend to turn them down to 8mm to fit in the existing bearing bosses, 
but with ball bearing thrust washers with an 8mm bore.

But in grinding them down, its obvious I wall NOT have a good shoulder 
because the 8mm is just about the bottoms of the ball grooves.

This means I will not have a good shoulder all the way around, and that 
implies that the ball thrust washers may tip.

I am inclined to make a sleeve about 12 or 13mm OD, and at least 10mm long, 
and a bit small so I can heat it and hopefully drive it against the 
shoulder, and that it in turn will prevent the thrust washer from tilting.  
That would involve driving it around 80mm from the end of the screw.  No 
clue if a shrink fitted sleeve could be driven that far in one blow of a 
dead blow hammer.

But I don't have any better ideas ATM.  Anybody else have an idea to offer?

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene
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