Re: [Emc-users] Wax? [Was: rapid prototype]

[Mark Wendt]

On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Erik Christiansen
wrote:

> On 23.07.12 08:51, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > Saw your sig box and just had to chuckle.  We said that about the F-4
> > Phantom I used to fly for the USAF.  Never had a problem landing it
> > though.  Well, except for that one time when the hydraulics...  ;-)
>
> With the single tailfin, I guess you'd be an inch shorter for a while,
> if you'd had to eject.
>
> Erik
>

That's why Martin-Baker put rocket motors in the in the 0 - 0 seat.  ;-)

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Wax? [Was: rapid prototype]

[Erik Christiansen]

On 23.07.12 08:51, Mark Wendt wrote:
> Saw your sig box and just had to chuckle.  We said that about the F-4
> Phantom I used to fly for the USAF.  Never had a problem landing it
> though.  Well, except for that one time when the hydraulics...  ;-)

With the single tailfin, I guess you'd be an inch shorter for a while,
if you'd had to eject.

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] Wax? [Was: rapid prototype]

[Mark Wendt]

On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Erik Christiansen
wrote:

> On 23.07.12 07:20, Eric H. Johnson wrote:
> Erik
>
> --
> "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not
> necessarily
> a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it
> could
> be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead."-- RFC
> 1925
>(1 April
> 1996)
>

Eric,

Saw your sig box and just had to chuckle.  We said that about the F-4
Phantom I used to fly for the USAF.  Never had a problem landing it
though.  Well, except for that one time when the hydraulics...  ;-)

Mark
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[Emc-users] Wax? [Was: rapid prototype]

[Erik Christiansen]

On 23.07.12 07:20, Eric H. Johnson wrote:
> interesting if anyone used EMC to build rapid prototype machine.
> it should be 4 axis machine. 3 axis X Y Z and 4th axis head that injects
> liquid wax -plastic.

Now that is very thought provoking. Is anyone making wax patterns with
one of these CNC extruders? Being able to CNC a pattern for lost wax
casting would be just the thing when hot-wire cutting of polystyrene
foam has trouble with the shape, e.g. due to fiddliness.

Maybe it's practical, if the print head did not fully melt the wax, but
higher temperatures could still do so, to void the mould?

Erik

-- 
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily 
a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could 
be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead."-- RFC 1925 
   (1 April 1996)

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Re: [Emc-users] Wax

[Kirk Wallace]

On Sat, 2008-06-14 at 23:55 -0500, phil wrote:
> Ive seen shops using plaster of paris to do exactly what your wanting.  
> its a bit more stable then
> wax can be, and it may end up being less expensive. As far as removal, I 
> think the stuff will pretty much crumble, you could even mold in some 
> holding method, who knows, just tossing it out there. good luck.
> pardon in advance if I posted to the wrong section of this topic.
> 
> Ian W. Wright wrote:
> > Hi Kirk,
> >
> > I often temporarily stick parts I'm working on to a sacrificial piece of 
> > metal. Of course, with the small size of the parts I'm making, having a 
> > bigger 'handle' or something to clamp in the vise is the only way I can 
> > work on the pieces. I usually use shellac as an adhesive or, more often 
> > if I intend to do a lot of work on a piece, Cyanoacrylate (superglue). 
> > There are a number of grades of Cyanoacrylate, some gap filling, some 
> > not, and they all have one thing in common - they will release if you 
> > heat them a bit - just too hot to handle comfortably. the residue can 
> > then be wiped off with a bit of acetone. Before you use this stuff, you 
> > do need to clean the metal well with acetone or a proprietary cyano prep 
> > spray (if you use acetone it has to be plain acetone from the chemist, 
> > nail polish remover won't work as it has oils in it.) For anything 
> > needing a really good hold you can even use epoxy as most of these will 
> > also release with a bit of heat. I actually find that the cyanoacrylate 
> > glue I get from our 'Pound stores' - presumably your 'Dollar stores' - 
> > where I get 5 little plastic bottles of a very fluid glue on a card for 
> > 1UKP, is actually the best I have used!

I've tried Superglue and hotmelt. Both held the part passed the
machining process. It seemed to take more heat to remove the part from
the Superglue and my local hardware store didn't have acetone, so I
wasn't able to clean the Superglue from the part or fixture. The hotmelt
released the part with moderate heat and was easily cleaned with
carburetor cleaner. Other cleaners may work, but the carburetor cleaner
was in arms reach. Both seemed to form a thick bonding layer that can
vary in thickness. If parts need to be very flat, the Mitee-grip product
may be a better choice. 

-- 
Kirk Wallace (California, USA
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ 
Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe,
Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now,
Zubal lathe conversion pending
Craftsman AA 109 restoration
Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC)


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Re: [Emc-users] Wax

[phil]

Ive seen shops using plaster of paris to do exactly what your wanting.  
its a bit more stable then
wax can be, and it may end up being less expensive. As far as removal, I 
think the stuff will pretty much crumble, you could even mold in some 
holding method, who knows, just tossing it out there. good luck.
pardon in advance if I posted to the wrong section of this topic.

Ian W. Wright wrote:
> Hi Kirk,
>
> I often temporarily stick parts I'm working on to a sacrificial piece of 
> metal. Of course, with the small size of the parts I'm making, having a 
> bigger 'handle' or something to clamp in the vise is the only way I can 
> work on the pieces. I usually use shellac as an adhesive or, more often 
> if I intend to do a lot of work on a piece, Cyanoacrylate (superglue). 
> There are a number of grades of Cyanoacrylate, some gap filling, some 
> not, and they all have one thing in common - they will release if you 
> heat them a bit - just too hot to handle comfortably. the residue can 
> then be wiped off with a bit of acetone. Before you use this stuff, you 
> do need to clean the metal well with acetone or a proprietary cyano prep 
> spray (if you use acetone it has to be plain acetone from the chemist, 
> nail polish remover won't work as it has oils in it.) For anything 
> needing a really good hold you can even use epoxy as most of these will 
> also release with a bit of heat. I actually find that the cyanoacrylate 
> glue I get from our 'Pound stores' - presumably your 'Dollar stores' - 
> where I get 5 little plastic bottles of a very fluid glue on a card for 
> 1UKP, is actually the best I have used!
>
>   


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[Emc-users] Wax

[Ian W. Wright]

Hi Kirk,

I often temporarily stick parts I'm working on to a sacrificial piece of 
metal. Of course, with the small size of the parts I'm making, having a 
bigger 'handle' or something to clamp in the vise is the only way I can 
work on the pieces. I usually use shellac as an adhesive or, more often 
if I intend to do a lot of work on a piece, Cyanoacrylate (superglue). 
There are a number of grades of Cyanoacrylate, some gap filling, some 
not, and they all have one thing in common - they will release if you 
heat them a bit - just too hot to handle comfortably. the residue can 
then be wiped off with a bit of acetone. Before you use this stuff, you 
do need to clean the metal well with acetone or a proprietary cyano prep 
spray (if you use acetone it has to be plain acetone from the chemist, 
nail polish remover won't work as it has oils in it.) For anything 
needing a really good hold you can even use epoxy as most of these will 
also release with a bit of heat. I actually find that the cyanoacrylate 
glue I get from our 'Pound stores' - presumably your 'Dollar stores' - 
where I get 5 little plastic bottles of a very fluid glue on a card for 
1UKP, is actually the best I have used!

-- 
Best wishes,

Ian

Ian W. Wright
Sheffield  UK

"The difference between theory and practice is much smaller in theory than in 
practice..."


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Re: [Emc-users] Wax

[Kirk Wallace]

On Sat, 2008-06-14 at 17:40 +0200, Rob Jansen wrote:
> Kirk,
> 
> I have some stuff called "Spann-Folie" in German. I bought this from
> Sartorius in Germany.
> I friend of me used it also to create round disks of a few milimeters
> thick on his lathe.
> The label on the packaging tells me it's called Mitee-Grip. 
> 
> Works perfectly well.
> 
> This stuff makes milling small or thin pieces an easy thing to do.
> The only hassle is that you first need to press workpiece and
> sacrificial plate together and heat then to about 90 Celsius.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Rob

I suppose there is some technique that needs to be developed to use wax
properly. The bound can be fairly thick and uneven, so if flatness is
important the clamping setup is important too. I also have to work on
the part clean up. My guess is that Mitee-Grip has worked it all out.
I'll check it out. Thanks.

-- 
Kirk Wallace (California, USA
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ 
Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe,
Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now,
Zubal lathe conversion pending
Craftsman AA 109 restoration
Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC)


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Re: [Emc-users] Wax

[David Munro]

Try Dop Wax, from lapidary suppliers. It's a replacement for the 
traditional shelac, which shatters when it's bumped. It's a lot 
stronger than parafin. It's primary use is for grinding the facets on 
gemstones, which are held on the end of a stick, or dop, with this 
stuff.


On Jun 14, 2008, at 3:27 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote:


>  Has anyone tried a
> different wax or method?
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Wax

[Rob Jansen]

Kirk,

I have some stuff called "Spann-Folie" in German. I bought this from
Sartorius in Germany.
I friend of me used it also to create round disks of a few milimeters thick
on his lathe.
The label on the packaging tells me it's called
Mitee-Grip.


Works perfectly well.

This stuff makes milling small or thin pieces an easy thing to do.
The only hassle is that you first need to press workpiece and sacrificial
plate together and heat then to about 90 Celsius.

Regards,

Rob
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Re: [Emc-users] Wax

[John Thornton]

Kirk,

I do this often in my shop. I keep many pieces of sacrificial aluminum plate 
around. 
On parts with a profile I drill all the holes in the part while square then use 
at least 
two holes in the part and then mount it to the sacrificial plate which is 
mounted into 
the vise. Then I cut the profiles going 0.025 - 0.050 deeper than the thickness 
of the 
plate(depends on the radius of the edge of my cutter).

John

On 14 Jun 2008 at 0:27, Kirk Wallace wrote:

> I needed to mill a bracket from 1.5mm (.060") aluminum and decided
> this might be a good time to try mounting the material with wax. I
> dropped some hot candle wax on a 13mm (.5") plate and then placed the
> sheet over it and used a propane torch flame on the sheet until the
> wax started running out all of the edges. Then I pressed the sheet to
> the plate until it cooled. I clamped the plate to the table and
> drilled the part holes and milled the outside contour. It looked like
> I didn't mill through, so I milled the contour again a little deeper
> and half way through the last pass the part broke free. Fortunately,
> the part just jiggled on the end-mill instead of catching on it and
> flying off. Since this wax was not designed for this purpose, I would
> say this process has promise. I hate clamping thin parts in a vise.
> Has anyone tried a different wax or method?
> 
> -- 
> Kirk Wallace (California, USA
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ 
> Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe,
> Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now,
> Zubal lathe conversion pending
> Craftsman AA 109 restoration
> Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC)
> 
> 
> --
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[Emc-users] Wax

[Kirk Wallace]

I needed to mill a bracket from 1.5mm (.060") aluminum and decided this
might be a good time to try mounting the material with wax. I dropped
some hot candle wax on a 13mm (.5") plate and then placed the sheet over
it and used a propane torch flame on the sheet until the wax started
running out all of the edges. Then I pressed the sheet to the plate
until it cooled. I clamped the plate to the table and drilled the part
holes and milled the outside contour. It looked like I didn't mill
through, so I milled the contour again a little deeper and half way
through the last pass the part broke free. Fortunately, the part just
jiggled on the end-mill instead of catching on it and flying off. Since
this wax was not designed for this purpose, I would say this process has
promise. I hate clamping thin parts in a vise. Has anyone tried a
different wax or method?

-- 
Kirk Wallace (California, USA
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ 
Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe,
Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now,
Zubal lathe conversion pending
Craftsman AA 109 restoration
Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC)


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