Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
Jim Fleig - CNC Services wrote: > Hi Steve, > > Thank you for reading my long email. I didn't know how to convey the > information with fewer words. It looks like you had the same challenge > below. :-) .. > Jim Fleig > > PS (My attempt to replace a previous version of Ubuntu with 8.04 has > resulted in the following error message: Disk Boot Failure, Insert > System Disk and Press Enter. Prior to installing the 8.04 version the > hard drive was scrubbed with DBAN. I have tried several things that I I don't know what DBAN is nor is it important. It is possible, but I haven't seen it yet, that there is a program that would interact with disk drive microcontroller and mess with low level data on the drive (ZBR info for example) or the firmware itself to make it unusable for security reasons. I doubt that's worthwhile as a simple hammer will do it. Erased disk drives or not, installation program will simply write new data after you tell it to do so. It doesn't matter what you used to delete previous information. > found on the internet (more than a few people have had the same problem) > but have yet to solve the problem. It seems that the hard drive needs to You are confusing two types of formatting, high and low level. Note that low level formating is no longer needed in modern drives. > be formatted. I have tried to find a format utility that will fit on a > floppy. The computer will still boot from the floppy. I haven't been > able to find that utility yet. This is where I so often find myself. The Either you have a 20 years old drive, have a bad drive, or are doing something that's completely unnecessary. It is possible you have hard drive configured as a slave instead of master which could cause boot up problems. Make sure: - your BIOS is configured correctly (auto), - that the battery for BIOS data is good to keep the config between power cycles, - that cable connectors are inserted properly in correct IDE port and no pins are bent, - check power supply (voltage) - say a prayer - whatever else I forgot Forget about floppies. They should die 10 years ago since the industry failed to accept 120MB and 256MB upgraded ones. > computer will not work and I spend hours wrestling with the computer > instead of doing whatever it was I wanted to do with the computer. This > is where I need tech support.) I can only support in SF Bay Area unless you buy me a ticket to fly "out there" :-) I think it would be less expensive to buy a new drive and MOBO if that's a problem. Note that some new motherboards come with bad caps. Caps let the smoke out in a year or two and the PC behaves weird, keeps rebooting. Bad caps are easy to detect, they are not flat on top. Unfortunately you can't tell that before they go bad. Jim, your email needs to wrap at about 75 characters so that we can comment your messages appropriately. Not sure what this has to do with the subject line in the first place. Folks, it's very difficult to search for subject in messages when the subject line and thread number have nothing to do with it. Don't simply hit a reply to some message and then change everything to start a new subject. Good luck, -- Rafael -- Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco. 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
Hi Steve, Thank you for reading my long email. I didn't know how to convey the information with fewer words. It looks like you had the same challenge below. :-) I couldn't agree more with this statement from your email: > I think you need to hire someone to do the software related tech work if > you want to use EMC2 in your business. My efforts (plenty of hours, phone calls, emails, etc.) have yet to yield a quote from a programmer who has a working knowledge of Linux and EMC (or is willing to learn EMC). If you know of someone who actually has the capabilities and will define their expectations for providing their services I would be very interested in contacting them. Although I am US based, as long as the programmer can speak (or type) English understandably then the programmer could be anywhere. I agree with your comment below that creating an organization is easy to say and presents many questions and challenges to actually do it. Thanks again (to everybody who stayed awake) for reading my long email and your thoughtful response. Have a good day, Jim Fleig PS (My attempt to replace a previous version of Ubuntu with 8.04 has resulted in the following error message: Disk Boot Failure, Insert System Disk and Press Enter. Prior to installing the 8.04 version the hard drive was scrubbed with DBAN. I have tried several things that I found on the internet (more than a few people have had the same problem) but have yet to solve the problem. It seems that the hard drive needs to be formatted. I have tried to find a format utility that will fit on a floppy. The computer will still boot from the floppy. I haven't been able to find that utility yet. This is where I so often find myself. The computer will not work and I spend hours wrestling with the computer instead of doing whatever it was I wanted to do with the computer. This is where I need tech support.) - Original Message - From: "Stephen Wille Padnos" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 12:43 AM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing > Hi Jim > > I was going through your (long :) ) list of points, responding to each > one, when I realized that all my responses point to the same conclusion. > > I think you need to hire someone to do the software related tech work if > you want to use EMC2 in your business. You could of course contract > someone to provide tech support, with whatever response / resolution > times make you comfortable. You could instead choose to pay for > software licenses, maintenance, and support contracts from well-known > vendors. The money part is a relatively simple calculation. The > confidence part is a bit more nebulous. > > I think there's some confusion between having a central entity that > manages money and having individuals accept money for working on EMC2. > I don't think anyone has any issues with individuals doing work on EMC2 > and getting paid for it. Several of us have done this in the past, > including me. There is no reason why you can't hire any programmer off > the street to make your GUI happen, or to do anything else you want to > have done. > > Now let's look at an "EMC corporate entity". I'll assume that there are > several people like you out there - people who would donate because they > like the software, hire people to do maintenance and feature additions, > tech support, etc. If there aren't any donors, there's no need for an > entity to manage donations :) > > If we create a non-profit, there are massive IRS reporting > requirements. The entity would most likely need to hire an accountant. > (I believe there are quarterly reports, similar to 941 tax filings for > corporations, in addition to forms and records showing where every penny > goes, and justifying that there really is no profit to be taxed) There > needs to be someone who will decide how "non-earmarked" donations get > distributed. Which feature requests get acted upon, and in what order. > We're talking about a project manager. A project manager with no > programmer-employees (most likely), and only volunteers to get things > done, kind of like it is now. > > Even with a non-profit, we're into a political arena. Who decides what > will be done, by whom, and at what price? Who decides who that > "decider" will be? Should the board, or a different group elected by > mailing list members get to decide? Should it only be people who have > donated? Pro-rated based on donation size? There is significant work > that has already gone into EMC2 - should some of the money allocated to > one feature be given to the people who made the fo
Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
Hi Jim I was going through your (long :) ) list of points, responding to each one, when I realized that all my responses point to the same conclusion. I think you need to hire someone to do the software related tech work if you want to use EMC2 in your business. You could of course contract someone to provide tech support, with whatever response / resolution times make you comfortable. You could instead choose to pay for software licenses, maintenance, and support contracts from well-known vendors. The money part is a relatively simple calculation. The confidence part is a bit more nebulous. I think there's some confusion between having a central entity that manages money and having individuals accept money for working on EMC2. I don't think anyone has any issues with individuals doing work on EMC2 and getting paid for it. Several of us have done this in the past, including me. There is no reason why you can't hire any programmer off the street to make your GUI happen, or to do anything else you want to have done. Now let's look at an "EMC corporate entity". I'll assume that there are several people like you out there - people who would donate because they like the software, hire people to do maintenance and feature additions, tech support, etc. If there aren't any donors, there's no need for an entity to manage donations :) If we create a non-profit, there are massive IRS reporting requirements. The entity would most likely need to hire an accountant. (I believe there are quarterly reports, similar to 941 tax filings for corporations, in addition to forms and records showing where every penny goes, and justifying that there really is no profit to be taxed) There needs to be someone who will decide how "non-earmarked" donations get distributed. Which feature requests get acted upon, and in what order. We're talking about a project manager. A project manager with no programmer-employees (most likely), and only volunteers to get things done, kind of like it is now. Even with a non-profit, we're into a political arena. Who decides what will be done, by whom, and at what price? Who decides who that "decider" will be? Should the board, or a different group elected by mailing list members get to decide? Should it only be people who have donated? Pro-rated based on donation size? There is significant work that has already gone into EMC2 - should some of the money allocated to one feature be given to the people who made the foundation on which the new code rests? A for-profit company could be started by someone. It wouldn't be the community though. It would be someone who decides they want to sell support and customization services for EMC2. That company/person would have no specific rights to use the names and domains that are currently in use. They would have the rights that we all have - to modify the code at will, with the stipulation that their customers have full rights to use, modify, and distribute the source code. I think there are a host of political issues with someone just starting up a company, especially if they claim to represent "the EMC2 project" or "the EMC2 community". When all is said and done, I don't see any reason why you can't have everything you want for tech support and feature additions. The only thing that will be missing (which wasn't explicitly mentioned) would be getting support assurances from a company with a proven track record, and that your customers will recognize and be comfortable with. I'd also like to say that I don't think any of your points are unreasonable. The only thing that would be unreasonable would be to expect that people who do this in their spare time should change their priorities based on what you want. The easiest way to fix that problem is to pay someone, so they're no longer working on it in their spare time ;) Incidentally, you mentioned in a previous email that you had made an offer to donate money, which wasn't well received. While I don't doubt that's true (we have politely declined donations several times), I also don't see where you made the offer. From time to time, I see comments like this, and I wonder which EMC-related communication medium I'm not subscribed to. (I've seen it mostly in complaints like "I asked this on the forum, and nobody answered me for 37 whole minutes!", which was confusing to me when we had no forum) Thanks for the comments. - Steve [snipped your comments - this is long enough without them ;) ] -- Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco. 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p ___ Emc-users ma
Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
Jim, sure - and long winded :) Stuart On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Jim Fleig - CNC Services wrote: > Hi Stuart, > > After reading that email would you be willing to be a reference for me to > the support persons that may consider working with me that I am very > detailed? :-) > > Jim > > > - Original Message - > From: "Stuart Stevenson" > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:44 PM > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing > > >> Jim, >> WHEW - Well, JIM, I did read to the end :) >> thanks for the explanation >> now we have a better target >> thanks >> Stuart >> >> >> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Jim Fleig - CNC Services >> wrote: >>> Hi Stuart, >>> >>> Here's the short answer: >>> >>> a programmer that can make changes (like a different GUI) for a retrofit, >>> an >>> individual that can either supply a computer or guide the selection and >>> assembly of a computer and techinical support of the software and >>> computer >>> after the retrofit. >>> >>> Here's the long answer: >>> >>> I can do anything (not just bragging, its true - see www.cncservices.ws) >>> with machine tools (rebuild, retrofit, align, calibrate (laser and level >>> for >>> 6 axes of movement linear, pitch, yaw and roll around the X,Y and Z axes, >>> spatial positioning measurement and compensation, 4th and 5th axis >>> measurement and compensation), G code programming, troubleshooting >>> (electrical, electronic, hydraulic, mechanical, pneumatic, etc.), >>> communication (DNC, wired and wireless), scrapping, etc., etc.) except >>> electronic board repair and software troubleshooting. When >>> troubleshooting >>> a machine if I can prove that the machine is functioning correctly and I >>> can >>> demonstrate that the software is not issuing commands correctly to the >>> machine then the problem is in the software or the hardware that runs the >>> software. With adequate technical support I can address these problems >>> also. Many of these problems I can address myself if a parameter needs >>> to >>> be changed (all of the controls that I have worked on so far are >>> parameter >>> based, Fanuc, Yasnac(Yaskawa), Mitsubishi, Centroid, etc.). On more than >>> one control I have replaced a hard drive, partitioned the hard drive, >>> reloaded software, configured the software for the mill and got the mill >>> up >>> and running again with technical support. In one of these situations I >>> had >>> to get the machine connected to the customers network so that parameters >>> could be downloaded from the control to the customers office computer. >>> With >>> instructions I set up a network connection (I am a computer user, not a >>> computer technician). I am willing to tackle that which I do not know >>> (and >>> do not have the time to learn, I just can't duplicate others knowledge >>> and >>> experience in many areas) if there is adequate technical support to >>> address >>> the problem. I am not comfortable supplying a control system to a >>> customer >>> that does not have adequate technical support because the customer's >>> machine >>> could be down because I am unable to address a certain issue and unable >>> to >>> get the answer for the issue from technical support. My customers trust >>> that whatever I do for them will enable them to make parts and if the >>> making >>> of parts is interrupted that I will be able to get them back up and >>> running >>> promptly. >>> >>> In my ideal world paid technical support would: >>> >>> assist in the retrofit process by >>> >>> - being a programmer that is comfortable with me not becoming a >>> programmer >>> - being a programmer that is comfortable with me being the onsite hands >>> while they are the brain guiding the hands (technical support) >>> - being a Linux enthusiast that will interact with the Windows world (all >>> of >>> my customers front offices are Windows based) without bashing Windows or >>> Bill Gates in front of the customer (the machine control almost always >>> have >>> to be networked with the customers office computers for the transfer of >>> programs) &g
Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
Hi Stuart, After reading that email would you be willing to be a reference for me to the support persons that may consider working with me that I am very detailed? :-) Jim - Original Message - From: "Stuart Stevenson" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:44 PM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing > Jim, > WHEW - Well, JIM, I did read to the end :) > thanks for the explanation > now we have a better target > thanks > Stuart > > > On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Jim Fleig - CNC Services > wrote: >> Hi Stuart, >> >> Here's the short answer: >> >> a programmer that can make changes (like a different GUI) for a retrofit, >> an >> individual that can either supply a computer or guide the selection and >> assembly of a computer and techinical support of the software and >> computer >> after the retrofit. >> >> Here's the long answer: >> >> I can do anything (not just bragging, its true - see www.cncservices.ws) >> with machine tools (rebuild, retrofit, align, calibrate (laser and level >> for >> 6 axes of movement linear, pitch, yaw and roll around the X,Y and Z axes, >> spatial positioning measurement and compensation, 4th and 5th axis >> measurement and compensation), G code programming, troubleshooting >> (electrical, electronic, hydraulic, mechanical, pneumatic, etc.), >> communication (DNC, wired and wireless), scrapping, etc., etc.) except >> electronic board repair and software troubleshooting. When >> troubleshooting >> a machine if I can prove that the machine is functioning correctly and I >> can >> demonstrate that the software is not issuing commands correctly to the >> machine then the problem is in the software or the hardware that runs the >> software. With adequate technical support I can address these problems >> also. Many of these problems I can address myself if a parameter needs >> to >> be changed (all of the controls that I have worked on so far are >> parameter >> based, Fanuc, Yasnac(Yaskawa), Mitsubishi, Centroid, etc.). On more than >> one control I have replaced a hard drive, partitioned the hard drive, >> reloaded software, configured the software for the mill and got the mill >> up >> and running again with technical support. In one of these situations I >> had >> to get the machine connected to the customers network so that parameters >> could be downloaded from the control to the customers office computer. >> With >> instructions I set up a network connection (I am a computer user, not a >> computer technician). I am willing to tackle that which I do not know >> (and >> do not have the time to learn, I just can't duplicate others knowledge >> and >> experience in many areas) if there is adequate technical support to >> address >> the problem. I am not comfortable supplying a control system to a >> customer >> that does not have adequate technical support because the customer's >> machine >> could be down because I am unable to address a certain issue and unable >> to >> get the answer for the issue from technical support. My customers trust >> that whatever I do for them will enable them to make parts and if the >> making >> of parts is interrupted that I will be able to get them back up and >> running >> promptly. >> >> In my ideal world paid technical support would: >> >> assist in the retrofit process by >> >> - being a programmer that is comfortable with me not becoming a >> programmer >> - being a programmer that is comfortable with me being the onsite hands >> while they are the brain guiding the hands (technical support) >> - being a Linux enthusiast that will interact with the Windows world (all >> of >> my customers front offices are Windows based) without bashing Windows or >> Bill Gates in front of the customer (the machine control almost always >> have >> to be networked with the customers office computers for the transfer of >> programs) >> - having the programming ability to create a different GUI for EMC that >> would be more industry standard (I have designed this GUI, it just needs >> to >> be programmed) >> - having the programming ability and the people skills to talk me or a >> customer through entering software commands and reporting results so that >> issue of the moment can be identified and resolved >> - an alternative to the previous step would be a direct connection via &g
Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
Yes, veery long. :) Sometimes it feels great though to let the minds out. The donation issue, why not have a look or even talk to other Open Source projects, like the ones under the Apache umbrella how they handle donations? Regards, A very open sourced (I even work with it daily) Sven 2009/4/18 Stuart Stevenson > Jim, > WHEW - Well, JIM, I did read to the end :) > thanks for the explanation > now we have a better target > thanks > Stuart > > > -- Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco. 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
vide instruction on how to do so > - advising how to load software onto the computer > - advising how to configure the software to the machine (I would provide > detailed list of machine functions) > - writing the ladder logic from my detailed list of machine functions or > provide instruction how to write the ladder logic (I have written ladder > logic for other systems) > OR > - providing a computer preloaded with the software and preconfigured per my > detailed list of machine functions > > - providing techinical support as the computer is being attached to the mill > (technical support for other systems appreciates my contact and questions > because I am very detailed, very focused, I do not call technical support > with general questions, I call with a very narrow focus and many details > related to the issue) > > assist after the retrofit is complete by > > - responding to technical support questions to advise the question has been > received (should not be more than 24 hours, ideally would be 2 hours or > less) > - responding to the technical support question with a solution or an > estimate of the time it will take to determine the solution (24 to 48 hours) > - advising if it would be helpful to update the software running the machine > or remain at the current version level, if the machine computer is connected > to the internet then possibly doing a software update remotely > - having the programming ability to resolve bugs, add features, etc. as the > customer's use of the machine causes some things to be noticed or wanted > > assist in the overall process by > > - defining expectations for the delivery of requested tasks, cost for those > tasks to be completed and terms for payment > > Note: If a problem was solved by the collaboration of several individuals > from the EMC forum and none of the individuals involved wanted direct > payment I would be willing to make a payment to an EMC fund, the Ubuntu fund > or wherever the individuals might direct the payment. I am not comfortable > receiving contributions (programming, computer build advice, etc.) that > enable me to receive compensation from my customers and then keeping all the > compensation. That would bug my business conscience. Suppliers that enable > me to receive compensation from my customers deserve to receive a portion of > the compensation. I would not necessarily care where the compensation > payment went (EMC, annual EMC event, Ubuntu, Wikipedia, etc.). I would just > want to make the payment. Like Doug, I would want to give back because I > had received. > > These are the major points. If I am forgetting anything, it is minor. > > My thanks to Ray H., Matt S., Steve S., others who have taken time to > explain various things about EMC and Linux and whoever was the individual > that was so patient assisting me to get my first computer running with > Ubuntu and EMC that discovered the problem preventing the correct execution > of commands was my lack of knowledge that Unix based systems are case > sensitive. All you programmers enjoy your amusement. :-) Does it make > sense now that I need technical support? :-) > > My thanks to Paul C. who has patiently answered questions that went > unanswered on the forum about Linux and EMC in terminology that a > non-programmer can understand. > > I own a knee mill that could be retrofit with EMC. The mill is identical to > the mill that Chris H. retrofit. It is a Hurco KM3P. Chris H. can run EMC > with the current GUI. If I retrofit my mill for my use I can run with the > current GUI. I would like to retrofit this mill and sell it. The current > GUI's are not suitable for this. It also could be done with Ajax (Centroid > in pieces, http://www.ajaxcnc.com/). The Centroid system is very reliable > and technical support is available. For me, this system is the bench mark > for comparison with an EMC system. In the same shop where my mill is > located the owner's have a knee mill that they have offered me $5000.00 to > retrofit. They have been very patiently waiting while I have been trying to > find an individual(s) to do the items discussed above so that both of these > mills could be retrofit with EMC. > > Well, Stuart, if you bothered to read all of this I think that you can > appreciate as a business owner why I haven't stepped out with EMC. You do > not do all the functions of your business. Your business relies on the > knowledge, skill and experience of many people. Some of those people are > key to the operation of your business. If they did not show for work, your > business would limp very badly or not function at all. In order for my > efforts with EMC to be successful, I must have an individ
Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
t as the computer is being attached to the mill (technical support for other systems appreciates my contact and questions because I am very detailed, very focused, I do not call technical support with general questions, I call with a very narrow focus and many details related to the issue) assist after the retrofit is complete by - responding to technical support questions to advise the question has been received (should not be more than 24 hours, ideally would be 2 hours or less) - responding to the technical support question with a solution or an estimate of the time it will take to determine the solution (24 to 48 hours) - advising if it would be helpful to update the software running the machine or remain at the current version level, if the machine computer is connected to the internet then possibly doing a software update remotely - having the programming ability to resolve bugs, add features, etc. as the customer's use of the machine causes some things to be noticed or wanted assist in the overall process by - defining expectations for the delivery of requested tasks, cost for those tasks to be completed and terms for payment Note: If a problem was solved by the collaboration of several individuals from the EMC forum and none of the individuals involved wanted direct payment I would be willing to make a payment to an EMC fund, the Ubuntu fund or wherever the individuals might direct the payment. I am not comfortable receiving contributions (programming, computer build advice, etc.) that enable me to receive compensation from my customers and then keeping all the compensation. That would bug my business conscience. Suppliers that enable me to receive compensation from my customers deserve to receive a portion of the compensation. I would not necessarily care where the compensation payment went (EMC, annual EMC event, Ubuntu, Wikipedia, etc.). I would just want to make the payment. Like Doug, I would want to give back because I had received. These are the major points. If I am forgetting anything, it is minor. My thanks to Ray H., Matt S., Steve S., others who have taken time to explain various things about EMC and Linux and whoever was the individual that was so patient assisting me to get my first computer running with Ubuntu and EMC that discovered the problem preventing the correct execution of commands was my lack of knowledge that Unix based systems are case sensitive. All you programmers enjoy your amusement. :-) Does it make sense now that I need technical support? :-) My thanks to Paul C. who has patiently answered questions that went unanswered on the forum about Linux and EMC in terminology that a non-programmer can understand. I own a knee mill that could be retrofit with EMC. The mill is identical to the mill that Chris H. retrofit. It is a Hurco KM3P. Chris H. can run EMC with the current GUI. If I retrofit my mill for my use I can run with the current GUI. I would like to retrofit this mill and sell it. The current GUI's are not suitable for this. It also could be done with Ajax (Centroid in pieces, http://www.ajaxcnc.com/). The Centroid system is very reliable and technical support is available. For me, this system is the bench mark for comparison with an EMC system. In the same shop where my mill is located the owner's have a knee mill that they have offered me $5000.00 to retrofit. They have been very patiently waiting while I have been trying to find an individual(s) to do the items discussed above so that both of these mills could be retrofit with EMC. Well, Stuart, if you bothered to read all of this I think that you can appreciate as a business owner why I haven't stepped out with EMC. You do not do all the functions of your business. Your business relies on the knowledge, skill and experience of many people. Some of those people are key to the operation of your business. If they did not show for work, your business would limp very badly or not function at all. In order for my efforts with EMC to be successful, I must have an individual involved with my business who will address the software and computer hardware side of the system. Thanks for asking the question. Have a good day, Jim Fleig CNC Services - Original Message - From: "Stuart Stevenson" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing > why could you 'not go commercial'? > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Jim Fleig - CNC Services > wrote: >> Prior to Doug offering to donate to EMC's development, I have made the >> same >> offer. Kirk correctly comments that this was not received >> enthusiastically. >> Why not? (Gentle "Why not?") Cars are manufactured for commercial sale >> and >> the number of car hob
Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
On Fri, 2009-04-17 at 22:02 -0500, Stuart Stevenson wrote: > why could you 'not go commercial'? > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Jim Fleig - CNC Services > wrote: > > Any comments Ray H. ...? Now that I'm retired, I don't have much time left over from business. My 0.00401k investment plan certainly isn't going to feed me. Even all the paperwork won't burn long enough to warm my hands in April. Just a bit of history here. Nearly all of the larger open-source projects have legal entities associated with them. Some of these count annual value in billions of US dollars. In all of the projects I've looked at, the process of developing that legal entity was a cause for some tension among the developers and adherents. At the same time those entities have facilitated systematic development. I argued at several annual board meetings, most notably during the annual meeting of the board at the first Fest in Ann Arbor, that we (EMC) needed such an entity to interface between developers and commercial interests like Sherline and Smithy. Today there is a much more diversified commercial community surrounding us. I believe the need is greater now than then. We would do well to set up a legally recognized entity and establish folk who can relate to and argue for each of the many kinds of activities we do and to which our software is applied. That entity should "own" things like linuxcnc.org, the EMC2-CNC marks, and other stuff related to the work we do. Yes there will no doubt be some wrangling over cash and value but how much more intense can it be than some of the sessions that JohnK and I had over HAL. We both are strong willed and I think John, and those sessions produced some great results. We really enjoyed fighting with the Mazak, and winning. Thanks to all who helped with it. I believe we share a lot of good will toward each other. Our formal and informal meetings and our success stories have done a lot to mitigate the ease with which web based groups can fall into divisive and antagonistic posting. EMC2 is AWESOME -- as are the folk that surround it. Long live Hoyt, CNC's anti-model. May we never take that bait. Rayh -- Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco. 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
why could you 'not go commercial'? On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Jim Fleig - CNC Services wrote: > Prior to Doug offering to donate to EMC's development, I have made the same > offer. Kirk correctly comments that this was not received enthusiastically. > Why not? (Gentle "Why not?") Cars are manufactured for commercial sale and > the number of car hobbyists and tinkerers is huge! What is missing in my > perspective? It would seem to me that thankful commercial ventures like > Doug, others and myself making contributions would enable EMC to organize > and fund events, pay for web server time (I have to pay for my website to be > on the internet), perhaps forward a percentage of the donations received by > EMC to the Linux development, etc. Wouldn't the hobbyist and the tinkerer > benefit from the advancements that may be driven by commercial need and > commercial contribution to enable the need being met? > > Any comments Ray H., Steve S.? > > Jim > > PS (Comments above are my thoughts. I'm not mad at anybody and I am not > seeking to "stir the pot". Just sharing my 2 cents and am interested in > others perspective on this issue. I actually have turned down retrofit work > due to the lack of ability to go commercial with this software. That was > disappointing.) > > > - Original Message - > From: "Kirk Wallace" > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 2:11 PM > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing > > >> On Mon, 2009-04-13 at 13:14 -0400, Doug Pollard wrote: >>> I am am almost 75 years old and some kind of excited about this new >>> industrial revolution that is creeping up on us all. >> ... snip >>> Wouldn't it be something if free software changed the economy of the >>> whole world?? I find this really exciting stuff and it seems it may go >>> as far as you can imagine. >>> >>> Doug >> >> I agree that the potential is there, but at this point it is hard to see >> where this potential will go. >> >> The subject of donations to EMC2 has come up before, and it was not >> received enthusiastically. I think that most of the developers feel that >> this is a pastime, and bringing money into the mix would diminish the >> fun. I am very curious about what could be done with EMC2 (and some sort >> of CAM) if a more commercial approach where pursued. This may be an >> indication that open source software and free software are are can be >> very different ideas. >> >> -- >> Kirk Wallace >> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ >> http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html >> California, USA >> >> >> -- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: >> High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. >> Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com >> ___ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > -- > Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and > around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save > $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco. > 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. > Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > -- you can lead a person to knowledge but you cannot make him think -- Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco. 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
Prior to Doug offering to donate to EMC's development, I have made the same offer. Kirk correctly comments that this was not received enthusiastically. Why not? (Gentle "Why not?") Cars are manufactured for commercial sale and the number of car hobbyists and tinkerers is huge! What is missing in my perspective? It would seem to me that thankful commercial ventures like Doug, others and myself making contributions would enable EMC to organize and fund events, pay for web server time (I have to pay for my website to be on the internet), perhaps forward a percentage of the donations received by EMC to the Linux development, etc. Wouldn't the hobbyist and the tinkerer benefit from the advancements that may be driven by commercial need and commercial contribution to enable the need being met? Any comments Ray H., Steve S.? Jim PS (Comments above are my thoughts. I'm not mad at anybody and I am not seeking to "stir the pot". Just sharing my 2 cents and am interested in others perspective on this issue. I actually have turned down retrofit work due to the lack of ability to go commercial with this software. That was disappointing.) - Original Message - From: "Kirk Wallace" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing > On Mon, 2009-04-13 at 13:14 -0400, Doug Pollard wrote: >> I am am almost 75 years old and some kind of excited about this new >> industrial revolution that is creeping up on us all. > ... snip >> Wouldn't it be something if free software changed the economy of the >> whole world?? I find this really exciting stuff and it seems it may go >> as far as you can imagine. >> >> Doug > > I agree that the potential is there, but at this point it is hard to see > where this potential will go. > > The subject of donations to EMC2 has come up before, and it was not > received enthusiastically. I think that most of the developers feel that > this is a pastime, and bringing money into the mix would diminish the > fun. I am very curious about what could be done with EMC2 (and some sort > of CAM) if a more commercial approach where pursued. This may be an > indication that open source software and free software are are can be > very different ideas. > > -- > Kirk Wallace > http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ > http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html > California, USA > > > -- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. > Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco. 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: > At 02:11 PM 4/13/2009, you wrote: > >> On Mon, 2009-04-13 at 13:14 -0400, Doug Pollard wrote: >> >>> I am am almost 75 years old and some kind of excited about this new >>> industrial revolution that is creeping up on us all. >>> >> ... snip >> >>> Wouldn't it be something if free software changed the economy of the >>> whole world?? I find this really exciting stuff and it seems it may go >>> as far as you can imagine. >>> >>> Doug >>> >> I agree that the potential is there, but at this point it is hard to see >> where this potential will go. >> >> The subject of donations to EMC2 has come up before, and it was not >> received enthusiastically. I think that most of the developers feel that >> this is a pastime, and bringing money into the mix would diminish the >> fun. I am very curious about what could be done with EMC2 (and some sort >> of CAM) if a more commercial approach where pursued. This may be an >> indication that open source software and free software are are can be >> very different ideas. >> >> -- >> Kirk Wallace >> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ >> http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html >> California, USA >> > > Perhaps the donations could be used to purchase things like the blank > CD's, the banners, and copying costs for when a group of EMC'ers does > a display like at NAMES, or Cabin Fever, or one of the European shows? > > Mark > > > -- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. > Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > I realize I likely sound over enthusiastic on this home manufacturing and the use of free software. I also no that anyone who is lukewarm to any subject will not likely succeced. The home manufactureing buisness unlike in the past can manufacture in short run quantities much cheaper than the big shops. And they can do it more convienent to their customers. The home shop if he is not incorporated and does not have to pay taxes on parts he has made and are keeping in stock. If he is making spare parts for a brewery he can keep a months supply in stock and run his wife by the customers maintenance department on the way to the grocery store and make a delivery. With free software and thousands of dollars of free advice from online lists to set up and run new machines. Getting started is cheap, cheap,cheap. Machinery is cheap and software is free and very versital. Robots to put and take parts are cheap or easy to build. In 1967 I bought a Southbend lathe and ran it at home When I stopped to go bid on some work the machine stopped and I was not making a cent. So I expanded. I bought a building and hired machinists costs went up. I would be willing to bet that today I would not even concider expanding. My wife would put stock in a mill or I would while she or I took a laptop and programed the part in the buyers office and give him an almost foolproof price right then and there while at the same time work goes on. It used to be that a small shop could not run 10,000 parts so he could not meet the price of a large manufacturer today the home shop can make them for the same price on 200 pieces. The home shop can forget about profit, a man and his wife can make $100,000 a year and never leave home. All he has to concider is, are they making a good living? It has always been that people thought they had to make wages plus a profit. Thats true if you have hired someone else to work for you. If you and your wife make no more than wages in a factory rember you are not wearing out a car for you and your wife, you are not paying a baby sitter. Your children are getting an education in running a buisness. I sat and watched my 9 year old great grand son program a part on his own personal laptop the other day. Amazing!! How do you think he will make out in life? Even if he doesn't go to college, though I'm sure he will, he will still do well. Someone commented that the potential is there to do this. I would say if the potential is there, it will happen. I live in a college town and last night talked to the Dean who is a near by neighbor about night classes to teach this subject. We talked to after midnight and she is very interested. Maybe they will try it one year and see if there is enough interest to continue. Doug -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: High Quality Requirements in a Coll
Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
At 02:11 PM 4/13/2009, you wrote: >On Mon, 2009-04-13 at 13:14 -0400, Doug Pollard wrote: > > I am am almost 75 years old and some kind of excited about this new > > industrial revolution that is creeping up on us all. >... snip > > Wouldn't it be something if free software changed the economy of the > > whole world?? I find this really exciting stuff and it seems it may go > > as far as you can imagine. > > > > Doug > >I agree that the potential is there, but at this point it is hard to see >where this potential will go. > >The subject of donations to EMC2 has come up before, and it was not >received enthusiastically. I think that most of the developers feel that >this is a pastime, and bringing money into the mix would diminish the >fun. I am very curious about what could be done with EMC2 (and some sort >of CAM) if a more commercial approach where pursued. This may be an >indication that open source software and free software are are can be >very different ideas. > >-- >Kirk Wallace >http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ >http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html >California, USA Perhaps the donations could be used to purchase things like the blank CD's, the banners, and copying costs for when a group of EMC'ers does a display like at NAMES, or Cabin Fever, or one of the European shows? Mark -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
Hear hear, > These little home shops don't have to pay employee > healthcare nor pay corporate taxes. They can likely pay the lower > capital gains taxes on what their robots, cnc mills and Fab machines build. > Things are not that different on the other side of the world (the Netherlands). > Some guy in his back yard may well cast the > parts in his back yard for me out of scrap metals. Well, there are all kinds of environmental issues on this. I do remember that a steel construction company in my old town used to produce a lot of welding fumes but nowadays due to law they have to filter all their welding fumes (so the smell of burning brakes really were burning brakes last week ...) > These same people will not have to drive 20 miles to work everyday > and may not wear out a car every ten years making that trip. Mass > transit may be an idea that has come and is now going. > During the industrial age we noticed that a lot of the small companies where vanishing and people started working at large companies. In the beginning these persons got housing nearby there workplace but meanwhile this changed and now the Dutch government finds it normal to have your work on an hour travel distance from home. Rush hour, traffic jams and air pollution are partly because of this. Things are changing; there is a tendency to return to our roots. Start your own small company or work for smaller companies in the area - as it used to be years ago. Thanks to the current financial crisis I am now getting a chance to contribute to this change; ST-Ericsson was kind enough to 'set me free' with a bit of capital to invest into my own future but without EMC2, and the machine I built, I would never have made this step. > I am presently repairing microscopes but will soon be making medical > parts for hospital beds, Xray machines etc. These will go freely all > over the world where they are sorely needed and a big part of this will > be, because of EMC 2. In my case EMC2 is an enabler to get started. I am not starting a production company - there are some CNC companies in my area able to do a better job (in larger series) than I am. I am doing the design and part of the programming and EMC2 is used to control my large gantry style machine to do some prototyping only. Still an amazing job, the last two weeks the machine was running 24/7 to create some very large foam plugs and MDF molds. > I have also decided that some of this > money needs to go to the writing of software like Emc 2 so I plan to > donate some of what I make to help develop. Sounds a good thing. There is nothing about donations on the cnclinux website (actually there is; some python scripts state you must donate to a local food bank :-) ) except for donating your knowledge and sharing your experiences with other users. I agree with Kirk Wallace that bringing money into the game is a tricky thing. It will change the rules we play by. My donations go to the local food bank and to 'customers' who are starting up their own small company and cannot (yet) afford the investment in the sometimes expensive prototypes. Also the enviroment is a goal I am donating to in a direct way: almost all my transportation is done by bike or via public transportation and when possible I use materials that are recyclable. While the EMC2 team thinks about accepting donations, I will continue donating to our local community and the environment. One other thing we can do to donate is to enlist ourselves as an EMC2 user on www.linuxcnc.org by creating a user account and make yourself visible on the user map. On one side it is an acknowledgement to the EMC2 developers that their system is being used world wide, on the other side it is nice to see for ourselves where other users are located. Regards, Rob -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
Doug, I get the feeling EMC2 is on the cusp of full acceptance in the control world. It is amazingly close to the capability needed to compete with the old line commercial controls. It is just as capable and just as flexible. I only hesitate to claim it is more capable and flexible because with enough money the current commercial controls can do some incredible things. EMC2 is getting there for free. REVOLUTIONARY EXCITING thanks Stuart On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Jon Elson wrote: > Doug Pollard wrote: >> I am am almost 75 years old and some kind of excited about this new >> industrial revolution that is creeping up on us all. >> >> Wouldn't it be something if free software changed the economy of the >> whole world?? I find this really exciting stuff and it seems it may go >> as far as you can imagine. >> >> > Well, you may be overestimating the impact of things like EMC, at least > so far. And, there have been people making products out of their houses > for quite some time. This may be more of a de-revolution than a > revolution, going to back before the industrial revolution, except using > high technology instead of a guy making a boot every couple days. > > Jon > > -- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. > Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > -- you can lead a person to knowledge but you cannot make him think -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
Doug Pollard wrote: > I am am almost 75 years old and some kind of excited about this new > industrial revolution that is creeping up on us all. > > Wouldn't it be something if free software changed the economy of the > whole world?? I find this really exciting stuff and it seems it may go > as far as you can imagine. > > Well, you may be overestimating the impact of things like EMC, at least so far. And, there have been people making products out of their houses for quite some time. This may be more of a de-revolution than a revolution, going to back before the industrial revolution, except using high technology instead of a guy making a boot every couple days. Jon -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
Nice comments Doug. That's the spirit! Rainer On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Doug Pollard wrote: > I am am almost 75 years old and some kind of excited about this new > industrial revolution that is creeping up on us all. > My grandson is programing cnc for several different companies > running cnc at home building products and to a lesser degree > subcontracting. These little home shops don't have to pay employee > healthcare nor pay corporate taxes. They can likely pay the lower > capital gains taxes on what their robots, cnc mills and Fab machines build. > When I think that I can download and install Ubuntu and EMC 2 buy a > driver box from a shop that may have built it at home and even go so far > as to build my own mill from parts that may have been built in a home > workshop it's exciting. Some guy in his back yard may well cast the > parts in his back yard for me out of scrap metals. "WOW" This not a > little thing it can be huge. > It may well change government or it's tax methods. It may turn out > that we will do away with income tax and have to tax these products when > sold in the form of sales tax. > These same people will not have to drive 20 miles to work everyday > and may not wear out a car every ten years making that trip. Mass > transit may be an idea that has come and is now going. > I have been dreaming about this stuff since back in the late > 1960's when I first began to use NC and then CNC. > I think the Chinese have done us a huge favor by taking > manufacturing away to free up the young, smart as can be young > entrepreneur that are beginning this new economy. > A lot of this, I think is inspired by the writing of free software > like linux. Then from there moving on to free programs like Cinelerra > and emc 2. I really believe free Linux has reached a kind of critical > mass that is now allowing it to move into programs that can do physical > work and manufacturing. > I am presently repairing microscopes but will soon be making medical > parts for hospital beds, Xray machines etc. These will go freely all > over the world where they are sorely needed and a big part of this will > be, because of EMC 2. I could not make enough of these without cnc. > I will need to make some parts to sell as well. I can't run a > backyard shop without some income from someplace so I will make and sell > some parts for this purpose. I have also decided that some of this > money needs to go to the writing of software like Emc 2 so I plan to > donate some of what I make to help develop. It won't be much money but > it will help. I have never done this before because I only used free > software in playing with my computer but now this same software is > doing my work for me so it only seems fair to return something. > Wouldn't it be something if free software changed the economy of the > whole world?? I find this really exciting stuff and it seems it may go > as far as you can imagine. > > Doug > > > -- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. > Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- _ Rainer M. Schmidt Complex Consulting LLC b...@complexllc.com VoIP (646)-233-1002 FAX (646)-435-9216 -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
On Mon, 2009-04-13 at 13:14 -0400, Doug Pollard wrote: > I am am almost 75 years old and some kind of excited about this new > industrial revolution that is creeping up on us all. ... snip > Wouldn't it be something if free software changed the economy of the > whole world?? I find this really exciting stuff and it seems it may go > as far as you can imagine. > > Doug I agree that the potential is there, but at this point it is hard to see where this potential will go. The subject of donations to EMC2 has come up before, and it was not received enthusiastically. I think that most of the developers feel that this is a pastime, and bringing money into the mix would diminish the fun. I am very curious about what could be done with EMC2 (and some sort of CAM) if a more commercial approach where pursued. This may be an indication that open source software and free software are are can be very different ideas. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
Doug Pollard writes: BIG snip... > Wouldn't it be something if free software changed the economy of the > whole world?? I find this really exciting stuff and it seems it may go > as far as you can imagine. > > Doug Hello Doug, What a nice thought. You just brightened my day! Sometimes I feel overwhelmed with the eternal to-do list... so it is nice to be reminded of the quiet revolution. Thanks, Tom -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing
I am am almost 75 years old and some kind of excited about this new industrial revolution that is creeping up on us all. My grandson is programing cnc for several different companies running cnc at home building products and to a lesser degree subcontracting. These little home shops don't have to pay employee healthcare nor pay corporate taxes. They can likely pay the lower capital gains taxes on what their robots, cnc mills and Fab machines build. When I think that I can download and install Ubuntu and EMC 2 buy a driver box from a shop that may have built it at home and even go so far as to build my own mill from parts that may have been built in a home workshop it's exciting. Some guy in his back yard may well cast the parts in his back yard for me out of scrap metals. "WOW" This not a little thing it can be huge. It may well change government or it's tax methods. It may turn out that we will do away with income tax and have to tax these products when sold in the form of sales tax. These same people will not have to drive 20 miles to work everyday and may not wear out a car every ten years making that trip. Mass transit may be an idea that has come and is now going. I have been dreaming about this stuff since back in the late 1960's when I first began to use NC and then CNC. I think the Chinese have done us a huge favor by taking manufacturing away to free up the young, smart as can be young entrepreneur that are beginning this new economy. A lot of this, I think is inspired by the writing of free software like linux. Then from there moving on to free programs like Cinelerra and emc 2. I really believe free Linux has reached a kind of critical mass that is now allowing it to move into programs that can do physical work and manufacturing. I am presently repairing microscopes but will soon be making medical parts for hospital beds, Xray machines etc. These will go freely all over the world where they are sorely needed and a big part of this will be, because of EMC 2. I could not make enough of these without cnc. I will need to make some parts to sell as well. I can't run a backyard shop without some income from someplace so I will make and sell some parts for this purpose. I have also decided that some of this money needs to go to the writing of software like Emc 2 so I plan to donate some of what I make to help develop. It won't be much money but it will help. I have never done this before because I only used free software in playing with my computer but now this same software is doing my work for me so it only seems fair to return something. Wouldn't it be something if free software changed the economy of the whole world?? I find this really exciting stuff and it seems it may go as far as you can imagine. Doug -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
