Re: [Emc-users] armhf packages for Debian Stretch?

[王若溪]

May be a Raspberry Pi could be used as a build machine for Stretch, armhf,
as Raspbian based on Debian Stretch is just released. I've successfully
built LinuxCNC on an RPi 3B running on Raspbian Stretch and run it on a BBB
running on Debian Stretch.
Interestingly, RPi has 64bit ARM CPU while Raspbian is armhf architecture.



2017-08-16 11:09 GMT+08:00 Sebastian Kuzminsky :

> On 08/15/2017 09:05 PM, 王若溪 wrote:
>
>> Yes, you can build LinuxCNC for Stretch on armhf.  The only reason we
>>> don't provide these packages is we don't have a dedicated Stretch armhf
>>> build machine.
>>>
>>
>> Here are instructions on building the debs yourself.  This assumes a
>>> native build, not a cross build, so running everything on the BeagleBone
>>> Black:
>>>
>>
>> Thanks a lot.
>>
>> Is BBB's 512MB memory enough to build LinuxCNC? And I'm curious that why
>> cross build is not used in dedicated build machine.
>>
>
> I've built LinuxCNC on a BBB, but I might have had swap enabled, I don't
> remember.
>
> We don't cross-build because we want to run the test suite, and that
> requires executing the compiled binaries, which doesn't work in a
> cross-build environment.
>
>
> Is building on arm64 architecture such as Jetson TX1 considered as cross
>> build? I happen to have an idle Jetson TX1 with 4GB memory, don't know if
>> useful.
>>
>
> Building for arm64 on arm64 is not a cross build.  Building for non-arm64
> on arm64 would be a cross build.
>
> I don't have any arm64 machines, so i've never tried building/testing
> LinuxCNC on one.
>
>
> --
> Sebastian Kuzminsky
>
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Re: [Emc-users] armhf packages for Debian Stretch?

[Chris Albertson]

Is building on arm64 architecture such as Jetson TX1 considered as cross
> build? I happen to have an idle Jetson TX1 with 4GB memory, don't know if
> useful.


The big advantage of the TX1 is the powerful Nvidia GPU that can be used
for all kinds of matrix operations.  The GPU is why the little TX1 board
sells for $400 and not for $40.  Seems a waist to use one of these to host
a compiler where the GPU is not needed.

Just this week I tried moving some computation I was running from CPU to
GPU and saw a 30X speed up.  From hours to minute per cycle.   Your TX1's
GPU has 256 cores and each can do full 32-bit floating point math.

Yes a BBB is slow but my Raspberry Pi 3 is impressively fast for what it is
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Re: [Emc-users] armhf packages for Debian Stretch?

[Jeff Epler]

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 05:16:05PM -0600, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> Also, there is a bug in the qemu's emulation of Arm that makes some kinds of
> (emulated) memory barriers fail.  IIRC Jeff Epler tested this out and saw
> that this qemu bug caused our test suite to fail.

The problem I encountered relates to using "qemu-*-static" to perform
builds in a chroot.  It doesn't affect using "qemu-*-system" to perform
builds on a whole emulated system.  And yes, it only affects running the
testsuite, not building packages.

Basically, "qemu-*-static" thinks in single processes, and emulated "atomic
operations" are only properly emulated for threaded programs, not
multiprocess programs which map the same data in multiple processes and
then access them using an atomic memory model.

Jeff

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Re: [Emc-users] armhf packages for Debian Stretch?

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 08/15/2017 09:05 PM, 王若溪 wrote:

Yes, you can build LinuxCNC for Stretch on armhf.  The only reason we
don't provide these packages is we don't have a dedicated Stretch armhf
build machine.



Here are instructions on building the debs yourself.  This assumes a
native build, not a cross build, so running everything on the BeagleBone
Black:


Thanks a lot.

Is BBB's 512MB memory enough to build LinuxCNC? And I'm curious that why
cross build is not used in dedicated build machine.


I've built LinuxCNC on a BBB, but I might have had swap enabled, I don't 
remember.


We don't cross-build because we want to run the test suite, and that 
requires executing the compiled binaries, which doesn't work in a 
cross-build environment.




Is building on arm64 architecture such as Jetson TX1 considered as cross
build? I happen to have an idle Jetson TX1 with 4GB memory, don't know if
useful.


Building for arm64 on arm64 is not a cross build.  Building for 
non-arm64 on arm64 would be a cross build.


I don't have any arm64 machines, so i've never tried building/testing 
LinuxCNC on one.



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Re: [Emc-users] armhf packages for Debian Stretch?

[王若溪]

> Yes, you can build LinuxCNC for Stretch on armhf.  The only reason we
> don't provide these packages is we don't have a dedicated Stretch armhf
> build machine.

> Here are instructions on building the debs yourself.  This assumes a
>native build, not a cross build, so running everything on the BeagleBone
> Black:

Thanks a lot.

Is BBB's 512MB memory enough to build LinuxCNC? And I'm curious that why
cross build is not used in dedicated build machine.

Is building on arm64 architecture such as Jetson TX1 considered as cross
build? I happen to have an idle Jetson TX1 with 4GB memory, don't know if
useful.
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Re: [Emc-users] armhf packages for Debian Stretch?

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 08/15/2017 04:09 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

So using KEMU for the arm64 builds is either not working or to slow?

I'm interested because I'm setting up a virtual server farm too.   but just
in planning stages now


I tried using qemu emulation, and it was way too slow.  Running on a 
fast amd64 host, the emulated machine ran slower than a BeagleBone Black.


Also, there is a bug in the qemu's emulation of Arm that makes some 
kinds of (emulated) memory barriers fail.  IIRC Jeff Epler tested this 
out and saw that this qemu bug caused our test suite to fail.


I'd be happy running non-emulated Arm VMs on an Arm (or Arm64) host, but 
have not found suitable hardware.



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Re: [Emc-users] armhf packages for Debian Stretch?

[Chris Albertson]

So using KEMU for the arm64 builds is either not working or to slow?

I'm interested because I'm setting up a virtual server farm too.   but just
in planning stages now

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky 
wrote:

> On 08/15/2017 12:11 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
>
>> Sebastian,
>>
>> I'm curious.  Do you actually use physical machines to do the builds?  I
>> assumed everyone ran VMWare's  vSphere and had a ton of virtual machines
>> they were calling a "farm".
>>
>
> The x86 and amd64 builds all happen on a bunch of VMs (running in KVM, not
> VMware, but same idea).
>
> I have not yet found a reasonably priced, reasonably well supported arm or
> arm64 server to run arm/arm64 virtual machines on, so all arm builds happen
> on real arm hardware, Hardkernel Odroid U3:
>
> http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=g138745696275
>
> It's kind of a pain  If anyone can recommend a 8+ CPU, 8+ GB RAM arm64
> server that runs Debian, i'd love to be educated here.  The best i've found
> is the SoftIron Overdrive.
>
>
> --
> Sebastian Kuzminsky
>
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] armhf packages for Debian Stretch?

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 08/15/2017 12:11 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

Sebastian,

I'm curious.  Do you actually use physical machines to do the builds?  I
assumed everyone ran VMWare's  vSphere and had a ton of virtual machines
they were calling a "farm".


The x86 and amd64 builds all happen on a bunch of VMs (running in KVM, 
not VMware, but same idea).


I have not yet found a reasonably priced, reasonably well supported arm 
or arm64 server to run arm/arm64 virtual machines on, so all arm builds 
happen on real arm hardware, Hardkernel Odroid U3:


http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=g138745696275

It's kind of a pain  If anyone can recommend a 8+ CPU, 8+ GB RAM 
arm64 server that runs Debian, i'd love to be educated here.  The best 
i've found is the SoftIron Overdrive.



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Re: [Emc-users] armhf packages for Debian Stretch?

[Chris Albertson]

Sebastian,

I'm curious.  Do you actually use physical machines to do the builds?  I
assumed everyone ran VMWare's  vSphere and had a ton of virtual machines
they were calling a "farm".



On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky 
wrote:

.  The only reason we don't provide these packages is we don't have a
> dedicated Stretch armhf build machine.


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Re: [Emc-users] armhf packages for Debian Stretch?

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 08/15/2017 11:43 AM, 王若溪 wrote:

Hello everyone,

I'm trying to run LinuxCNC on BeagleBone Black which has Debian Stretch
installed, but it seems that LinuxCNC repo doesn't have armhf package for
Stretch. Is there any chance that I can build one myself? As I can run
LinuxCNC smoothly on my x86 laptop which has Debian Stretch with PREEMPT-RT
kernel and I do see armhf packages for Debian Jessie.


Yes, you can build LinuxCNC for Stretch on armhf.  The only reason we 
don't provide these packages is we don't have a dedicated Stretch armhf 
build machine.


Here are instructions on building the debs yourself.  This assumes a 
native build, not a cross build, so running everything on the BeagleBone 
Black:


http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/code/building-linuxcnc.html#_building_debian_packages


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