Re: Closing the GNOME BitPay account

[Nuritzi Sanchez]

Hi Andre,

Thanks for sending that article! We may try to reach out to BitGive to see
how it's going for them.

To clarify, we know that accepting bitcoin donations is possible as a
501(c)(3), but we're not sure it makes sense for the GNOME Foundation to do
so. We've started to investigate and it seems like some organizations who
initially accepted bitcoin donations decided to stop, because of
complications, and some organizations who do it have more complicated steps
for doing it rather than just having a BitPay account. We're trying to
learn more about how others are doing it, why, and what the trade-offs /
ramifications are.

If any of you have been involved with this kind of research for other
Foundations in the past, or if you are particularly interested in the topic
and want to help research, let us know :)

In the meantime, we will not be closing down our BitPay account and will
continue to do more research so that we understand how the Foundation would
be impacted by making it possible to donate bitcoins.

Best,
Nuritzi


On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 3:39 PM, Andre Klapper  wrote:

> On Wed, 2016-11-30 at 14:52 +0100, Tobias Mueller wrote:
> > I bet it'd be interesting to other 501c3s like Mozilla  > > i.mozilla.org/Ways_to_Give#Bitcoin>,
> > > Tor , or the
> > > handful pages
> > > of Google results for "501c3 anonymous donation bitcoin".
>
> http://www.coindesk.com/bitgive-becomes-first-irs-tax-
> exempt-bitcoin-charity/
> implies that orgs under 501(c)(3) status can accept bitcoins.
>
> andre
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Re: Closing the GNOME BitPay account

[Andre Klapper]

On Wed, 2016-11-30 at 14:52 +0100, Tobias Mueller wrote:
> I bet it'd be interesting to other 501c3s like Mozilla  > i.mozilla.org/Ways_to_Give#Bitcoin>,
> > Tor , or the
> > handful pages 
> > of Google results for "501c3 anonymous donation bitcoin".

http://www.coindesk.com/bitgive-becomes-first-irs-tax-exempt-bitcoin-charity/
implies that orgs under 501(c)(3) status can accept bitcoins.

andre
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Re: Closing the GNOME BitPay account

[Allan Day]

Hi all,

Just to let you know - the board is still pursuing this. We've reached out
to some other organisations and got some information back. There's a bit
more research to do, but we're making progress.

Allan

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 6:34 PM, Nuritzi Sanchez <
nurit...@stanfordalumni.org> wrote:

> Hi Tobi,
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 5:52 AM, Tobias Mueller 
> wrote
>>
>>
>> > I bet it'd be interesting to other 501c3s like Mozilla <
>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Ways_to_Give#Bitcoin>,
>> > Tor , or the
>> handful pages
>> > of Google results for "501c3 anonymous donation bitcoin".
>> If not, has any effort been made to reach out to at least one of the
>> various 501c3 orgs which accept Bitcoin?  Is it planned to talk to any
>> of those orgs before not accepting Bitcoin?  Do you need help
>> establishing contact?
>>
>
> This got pushed back in our agenda as we were focused on ED search
> matters, but we discussed bitcoin again during yesterday's meeting and we
> are reaching out to other orgs that do it this week. We were advised that
> FSF and Wikimedia Foundation both have these types of accounts.
>
> It was suggested we reach out to FSF first. If you have other orgs in mind
> besides those two, let us know.
>
> Best,
> Nuritzi
>
>
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>
>
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> 
> .
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Re: Closing the GNOME BitPay account

[Nuritzi Sanchez]

Hi Tobi,

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 5:52 AM, Tobias Mueller 
wrote
>
>
> > I bet it'd be interesting to other 501c3s like Mozilla <
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Ways_to_Give#Bitcoin>,
> > Tor , or the
> handful pages
> > of Google results for "501c3 anonymous donation bitcoin".
> If not, has any effort been made to reach out to at least one of the
> various 501c3 orgs which accept Bitcoin?  Is it planned to talk to any
> of those orgs before not accepting Bitcoin?  Do you need help
> establishing contact?
>

This got pushed back in our agenda as we were focused on ED search matters,
but we discussed bitcoin again during yesterday's meeting and we are
reaching out to other orgs that do it this week. We were advised that FSF
and Wikimedia Foundation both have these types of accounts.

It was suggested we reach out to FSF first. If you have other orgs in mind
besides those two, let us know.

Best,
Nuritzi


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Re: Closing the GNOME BitPay account

[Tobias Mueller]

Hi.

On Mo, 2016-08-22 at 15:01 +0200, Tobias Mueller wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 02:13:55PM +0200, Alexandre Franke wrote:
> > 
> > The issue has nothing to do with currencies. The problem is that as a
> > 501(c)(3) we need to know where our donations come from
> Interesting. Do you have a source for that?
> From what I know you only need to report "substantial" contributors to the 
> IRS.
Given that there hasn't been any reaction, neither the closure of the
account nor a reply which would substantiate that claim, may we assume
that we keep a way of pseudonymous payment?

> I bet it'd be interesting to other 501c3s like Mozilla 
> ,
> Tor , or the handful 
> pages 
> of Google results for "501c3 anonymous donation bitcoin".
If not, has any effort been made to reach out to at least one of the
various 501c3 orgs which accept Bitcoin?  Is it planned to talk to any
of those orgs before not accepting Bitcoin?  Do you need help
establishing contact?

Cheers,
  Tobi
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Re: Closing the GNOME BitPay account

[Justin Maxwell]

I'm curious about this also.

IANAL, and we're in the UK, but this is relevant to what we do
(microdonations disbursed to recipients over bitcoin).  In all my digging
through US IRS documents (so much fun!) I've never found anything to
substantiate the requirement to know the source of donations if the donor
isn't claiming a tax deduction.  (There are rules around donations of
vehicles, IP, land, anything where the donor gets something in return, etc
etc etc)

But this also isn't the first time a 501(c)(3) has said they can't accept
bitcoin due to this.

It would be really nice to get a link to an authoritative source on the
recording (/reporting) requirements for 501(c)(3) unencumbered cash (and
cash-like) donations.

Cheers,
  --Justin Maxwell

On 22 August 2016 at 14:01, Tobias Mueller  wrote:

> Hi.
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 02:13:55PM +0200, Alexandre Franke wrote:
> > The issue has nothing to do with currencies. The problem is that as a
> > 501(c)(3) we need to know where our donations come from
> Interesting. Do you have a source for that?
> From what I know you only need to report "substantial" contributors to the
> IRS.
>
> I bet it'd be interesting to other 501c3s like Mozilla <
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Ways_to_Give#Bitcoin>,
> Tor , or the handful
> pages
> of Google results for "501c3 anonymous donation bitcoin".
>
> Cheers,
>   Tobi
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Re: Closing the GNOME BitPay account

[Tobias Mueller]

Hi.

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 02:13:55PM +0200, Alexandre Franke wrote:
> The issue has nothing to do with currencies. The problem is that as a
> 501(c)(3) we need to know where our donations come from
Interesting. Do you have a source for that?
>From what I know you only need to report "substantial" contributors to the IRS.

I bet it'd be interesting to other 501c3s like Mozilla 
,
Tor , or the handful pages 
of Google results for "501c3 anonymous donation bitcoin".

Cheers,
  Tobi
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Re: Closing the GNOME BitPay account

[Alexandre Franke]

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Tobias Mueller  wrote:
> Hi.

Hello,

> Do you have details?
> I could only find https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf which
> does not indicate that "virtual currency" should be treated differently
> than "real currency".
> But I wonder why you think any of this is applicable at all, because
> the Foundation neither accepts, holds, nor spends any
> bitcoins.  The foundation receives USD from Bitpay.

The issue has nothing to do with currencies. The problem is that as a
501(c)(3) we need to know where our donations come from, and bitcoin's
anonymity prevents us from knowing that.

-- 
Alexandre Franke
GNOME Hacker & Foundation Director
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Re: Closing the GNOME BitPay account

[Tobias Mueller]

Hi.

On Mo, 2016-08-22 at 12:44 +0200, Allan Day wrote:
> Unfortunately IRS regulations means that accepting payments through Bitcoin 
> poses some problems
Do you have details?
I could only find https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf which
does not indicate that "virtual currency" should be treated differently
than "real currency".
But I wonder why you think any of this is applicable at all, because
the Foundation neither accepts, holds, nor spends any
bitcoins.  The foundation receives USD from Bitpay.

Cheers,
  Tobi

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