Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
Hi, from the implementation discussion it seems that the behavior of reboot will be in most cases equivalent to pressing the current buttons stop and then start, so maybe the reboot icon should reflect that. Maybe a combination of red square/green triangle? Martin - Original Message - From: Malini Rao m...@redhat.com To: Alissa Bonas abo...@redhat.com Cc: Martin Betak mbe...@redhat.com, engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 5:58:12 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot I think a Power button icon like this one - http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/vipervxw/vipervxw1210/vipervxw12144/16013272-cool-power-button-in-white-with-blue-led.jpg might work for reboot. -Malini - Original Message - From: Alissa Bonas abo...@redhat.com To: Martin Betak mbe...@redhat.com Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 9:32:09 AM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot I think that the icon suggested in the wiki looks more like refresh , and it's not clear it indicates a reboot action (which is more heavy than just a refresh). I suggest as alternative something like the run VM icon (the triangle - that already exists in the engine and users know what it means), and with it the arrows from the refresh icon. Please see attached. - Original Message - From: Martin Betak mbe...@redhat.com To: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 7:32:31 PM Subject: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot Hi, engine-devel Customers request the ability to reboot a VM with a single click so I started designing the overall architecture and planing out the required changes to the respective components. You can find the wiki page for the initial draft at [1] and I would like to ask you for your input on my general design and potential issues that could arise in some corner cases. Please feel free to respond to this thread or add to the Issues section of [1]. Thanks in advance for your opinions :-) Martin [1] http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Guest_Reboot ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
On Jun 10, 2013, at 21:20 , David Jaša dj...@redhat.com wrote: Hi Martin, there may be more kinds of reboot in context of RHEV: warm reboot that keeps qemu process intact, or cold that would involve qemu process termination and start of new one - and this could be done with keeping of current configuration, or with applying settings that take effect after reboot that have changed during VM runtime; and all of these can be soft - when the guest OS reboots itself and hard when you perform the reboot right away. we plan to have 2 of them which seem to make most sense warm without applying config changes and keeping qemu process (i.e. also keeps Run Once,Stateless, pooled VM config/state) cold which kills qemu and is completely driven by Engine, and applies config changes and a policy option in VM properties to specify whether you should forcibly proceed with reboot/shutdown when graceful methods fail/timeout is there anything not covered for a typical user? We intentionally don't want to provide all possible options, just those making sense. The feature is about providing a convenient shortcut. Thanks, michal All of these have their use cases, so it should be documented what will you implement, and you may expect somebody asking you to implement the rest. ;) David Martin Betak píše v Pá 07. 06. 2013 v 12:32 -0400: Hi, engine-devel Customers request the ability to reboot a VM with a single click so I started designing the overall architecture and planing out the required changes to the respective components. You can find the wiki page for the initial draft at [1] and I would like to ask you for your input on my general design and potential issues that could arise in some corner cases. Please feel free to respond to this thread or add to the Issues section of [1]. Thanks in advance for your opinions :-) Martin [1] http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Guest_Reboot ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel -- David Jaša, RHCE SPICE QE based in Brno GPG Key: 22C33E24 Fingerprint: 513A 060B D1B4 2A72 7F0D 0278 B125 CD00 22C3 3E24 ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
Hi, Michal Skrivanek píše v Út 11. 06. 2013 v 10:19 +0200: On Jun 10, 2013, at 21:20 , David Jaša dj...@redhat.com wrote: Hi Martin, there may be more kinds of reboot in context of RHEV: warm reboot that keeps qemu process intact, or cold that would involve qemu process termination and start of new one - and this could be done with keeping of current configuration, or with applying settings that take effect after reboot that have changed during VM runtime; and all of these can be soft - when the guest OS reboots itself and hard when you perform the reboot right away. we plan to have 2 of them which seem to make most sense warm without applying config changes and keeping qemu process (i.e. also keeps Run Once,Stateless, pooled VM config/state) cold which kills qemu and is completely driven by Engine, and applies config changes and a policy option in VM properties to specify whether you should forcibly proceed with reboot/shutdown when graceful methods fail/timeout is there anything not covered for a typical user? I think you covered it all. Based on the original emails by Martin, I presumed you only covered warm reboot, having cold reboot available as well is cool. David We intentionally don't want to provide all possible options, just those making sense. The feature is about providing a convenient shortcut. Thanks, michal All of these have their use cases, so it should be documented what will you implement, and you may expect somebody asking you to implement the rest. ;) David Martin Betak píše v Pá 07. 06. 2013 v 12:32 -0400: Hi, engine-devel Customers request the ability to reboot a VM with a single click so I started designing the overall architecture and planing out the required changes to the respective components. You can find the wiki page for the initial draft at [1] and I would like to ask you for your input on my general design and potential issues that could arise in some corner cases. Please feel free to respond to this thread or add to the Issues section of [1]. Thanks in advance for your opinions :-) Martin [1] http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Guest_Reboot ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel -- David Jaša, RHCE SPICE QE based in Brno GPG Key: 22C33E24 Fingerprint: 513A 060B D1B4 2A72 7F0D 0278 B125 CD00 22C3 3E24 ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel -- David Jaša, RHCE SPICE QE based in Brno GPG Key: 22C33E24 Fingerprint: 513A 060B D1B4 2A72 7F0D 0278 B125 CD00 22C3 3E24 smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
- Original Message - From: Martin Betak mbe...@redhat.com To: Omer Frenkel ofren...@redhat.com Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 1:29:29 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot - Original Message - From: Omer Frenkel ofren...@redhat.com To: Martin Betak mbe...@redhat.com Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 8:51:54 AM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot As i understand it, reboot will do shutdown and initiate a run-command in order to send any updated parameters, if this is correct, why vdsm and GA need to know its a reboot? guest is shutting down, no? Well in some cases where the VM configuration hasn't changed we can do graceful reboot using libvirt acpi reboot capabilities via guest agent (by just passing different option to the existing shutdown script). This preserves the qemu process and can be more efficient than the destroy(); start() sequence. Of course if it were the case that the guest would not respond to graceful method of reboot and the power-down policy for this VM hard, the engine would fall back to the destroy(); start() sequence. Otherwise (graceful-only reboot policy) we would leave the guest alone - status UP. ok maybe worth adding this info to the wiki, although currently there is no way to know if configuration has changed or not, but should be something like this soon (RFE for changing running vm configuration) it would be better to add some info on stateless issue: when stateless vm goes down, its state is cleared, so need to decide if reboot to stateless means also start with new state or no. I think this issue is similar to the Run-Once question. Do we want to give the user another option to choose from or do we pick one for him? similar is vm from pool: when vm from automatic pool goes down, it returns to the pool, and not belong to a specific user anymore, also here the state is cleared, so again need to understand the correct behaviour In the case of vm from pool the state treatment should be the same as in stateless but we also need to run the stop(); start() sequence in a transaction to make sure nobody else can steal this machine from this user. Or possibly since pool-VM configuration cannot change we could perhaps do the reboot only using the new vdsm capabilities. Do you think this would be possible or the engine would notice that the VM went Down for a brief moment? engine have to identify the vm as down before starting it again.. Maybe a new VM state Rebooting instead of Down would help in this case? not sure this is the best approach, need to do some thinking about this ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
- Original Message - From: Alissa Bonas abo...@redhat.com To: Martin Betak mbe...@redhat.com Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 3:32:09 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot I think that the icon suggested in the wiki looks more like refresh , and it's not clear it indicates a reboot action (which is more heavy than just a refresh). I suggest as alternative something like the run VM icon (the triangle - that already exists in the engine and users know what it means), and with it the arrows from the refresh icon. Please see attached. Of course, the suggested icon was only to give the impression of rotating arrow. The final design I will leave up to the UX experts :-) ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
- Original Message - From: Omer Frenkel ofren...@redhat.com To: Martin Betak mbe...@redhat.com Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 8:51:54 AM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot As i understand it, reboot will do shutdown and initiate a run-command in order to send any updated parameters, if this is correct, why vdsm and GA need to know its a reboot? guest is shutting down, no? Well in some cases where the VM configuration hasn't changed we can do graceful reboot using libvirt acpi reboot capabilities via guest agent (by just passing different option to the existing shutdown script). This preserves the qemu process and can be more efficient than the destroy(); start() sequence. Of course if it were the case that the guest would not respond to graceful method of reboot and the power-down policy for this VM hard, the engine would fall back to the destroy(); start() sequence. Otherwise (graceful-only reboot policy) we would leave the guest alone - status UP. it would be better to add some info on stateless issue: when stateless vm goes down, its state is cleared, so need to decide if reboot to stateless means also start with new state or no. I think this issue is similar to the Run-Once question. Do we want to give the user another option to choose from or do we pick one for him? similar is vm from pool: when vm from automatic pool goes down, it returns to the pool, and not belong to a specific user anymore, also here the state is cleared, so again need to understand the correct behaviour In the case of vm from pool the state treatment should be the same as in stateless but we also need to run the stop(); start() sequence in a transaction to make sure nobody else can steal this machine from this user. Or possibly since pool-VM configuration cannot change we could perhaps do the reboot only using the new vdsm capabilities. Do you think this would be possible or the engine would notice that the VM went Down for a brief moment? Maybe a new VM state Rebooting instead of Down would help in this case? ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
- Original Message - From: Martin Betak mbe...@redhat.com To: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 7:32:31 PM Subject: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot Hi, engine-devel Customers request the ability to reboot a VM with a single click so I started designing the overall architecture and planing out the required changes to the respective components. You can find the wiki page for the initial draft at [1] and I would like to ask you for your input on my general design and potential issues that could arise in some corner cases. Please feel free to respond to this thread or add to the Issues section of [1]. Thanks in advance for your opinions :-) Martin [1] http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Guest_Reboot Hi Martin, Starting version 3.3 we'll enable a fully operational watchdog device. This device is capable of auto-restarting a guest in case something goes wrong in the guest (BSOD / kernel panic). This may handle some of your use cases but not all of them. My only request from you is to verify the reboot expected behavior in VMs who are actively using a watchdog device set to restart the guest. Otherwise users will see conflicts and/or double reboots. The VM configuration may or may not include a guest agent and a watchdog device. A watchdog device may reset (reboot) the guest, but may also pause it for debugging purposes or simply do nothing. So a table that lists VM configuration and expected behavior should probably clarify everything and prevent implementation issues. Doron ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
I think a Power button icon like this one - http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/vipervxw/vipervxw1210/vipervxw12144/16013272-cool-power-button-in-white-with-blue-led.jpg might work for reboot. -Malini - Original Message - From: Alissa Bonas abo...@redhat.com To: Martin Betak mbe...@redhat.com Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 9:32:09 AM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot I think that the icon suggested in the wiki looks more like refresh , and it's not clear it indicates a reboot action (which is more heavy than just a refresh). I suggest as alternative something like the run VM icon (the triangle - that already exists in the engine and users know what it means), and with it the arrows from the refresh icon. Please see attached. - Original Message - From: Martin Betak mbe...@redhat.com To: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 7:32:31 PM Subject: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot Hi, engine-devel Customers request the ability to reboot a VM with a single click so I started designing the overall architecture and planing out the required changes to the respective components. You can find the wiki page for the initial draft at [1] and I would like to ask you for your input on my general design and potential issues that could arise in some corner cases. Please feel free to respond to this thread or add to the Issues section of [1]. Thanks in advance for your opinions :-) Martin [1] http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Guest_Reboot ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
Hi Martin, there may be more kinds of reboot in context of RHEV: warm reboot that keeps qemu process intact, or cold that would involve qemu process termination and start of new one - and this could be done with keeping of current configuration, or with applying settings that take effect after reboot that have changed during VM runtime; and all of these can be soft - when the guest OS reboots itself and hard when you perform the reboot right away. All of these have their use cases, so it should be documented what will you implement, and you may expect somebody asking you to implement the rest. ;) David Martin Betak píše v Pá 07. 06. 2013 v 12:32 -0400: Hi, engine-devel Customers request the ability to reboot a VM with a single click so I started designing the overall architecture and planing out the required changes to the respective components. You can find the wiki page for the initial draft at [1] and I would like to ask you for your input on my general design and potential issues that could arise in some corner cases. Please feel free to respond to this thread or add to the Issues section of [1]. Thanks in advance for your opinions :-) Martin [1] http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Guest_Reboot ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel -- David Jaša, RHCE SPICE QE based in Brno GPG Key: 22C33E24 Fingerprint: 513A 060B D1B4 2A72 7F0D 0278 B125 CD00 22C3 3E24 smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
- Original Message - From: Martin Betak mbe...@redhat.com To: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 7:32:31 PM Subject: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot Hi, engine-devel Customers request the ability to reboot a VM with a single click so I started designing the overall architecture and planing out the required changes to the respective components. You can find the wiki page for the initial draft at [1] and I would like to ask you for your input on my general design and potential issues that could arise in some corner cases. Please feel free to respond to this thread or add to the Issues section of [1]. Thanks in advance for your opinions :-) Martin [1] http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Guest_Reboot ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel As i understand it, reboot will do shutdown and initiate a run-command in order to send any updated parameters, if this is correct, why vdsm and GA need to know its a reboot? guest is shutting down, no? it would be better to add some info on stateless issue: when stateless vm goes down, its state is cleared, so need to decide if reboot to stateless means also start with new state or no. similar is vm from pool: when vm from automatic pool goes down, it returns to the pool, and not belong to a specific user anymore, also here the state is cleared, so again need to understand the correct behaviour ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
I think that the icon suggested in the wiki looks more like refresh , and it's not clear it indicates a reboot action (which is more heavy than just a refresh). I suggest as alternative something like the run VM icon (the triangle - that already exists in the engine and users know what it means), and with it the arrows from the refresh icon. Please see attached. - Original Message - From: Martin Betak mbe...@redhat.com To: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 7:32:31 PM Subject: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot Hi, engine-devel Customers request the ability to reboot a VM with a single click so I started designing the overall architecture and planing out the required changes to the respective components. You can find the wiki page for the initial draft at [1] and I would like to ask you for your input on my general design and potential issues that could arise in some corner cases. Please feel free to respond to this thread or add to the Issues section of [1]. Thanks in advance for your opinions :-) Martin [1] http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Guest_Reboot ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel attachment: RebootSuggestion.png___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
[Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
Hi, engine-devel Customers request the ability to reboot a VM with a single click so I started designing the overall architecture and planing out the required changes to the respective components. You can find the wiki page for the initial draft at [1] and I would like to ask you for your input on my general design and potential issues that could arise in some corner cases. Please feel free to respond to this thread or add to the Issues section of [1]. Thanks in advance for your opinions :-) Martin [1] http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Guest_Reboot ___ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
