Re: [Enigmail] From Circumvention

2015-03-06 Thread David 
On 3/6/2015 9:23 PM, Ian Mann wrote:
> There is a comprehensive video on DIME on You Tube.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWzvXaxR6us
> 
> Ian




And you trust them because...?   :-)


-- 

  David



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Re: [Enigmail] From Circumvention

2015-03-06 Thread David 
On 3/6/2015 9:14 PM, Ian Mann wrote:
> Sent a message with attachment, but is too large. I was unaware of size
> limit, sorry for the problem.
> 
> I was saying Dark Mail addresses the issue of headers I read some time
> back. They have a PDF out now on their system.
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20903929/dark-internet-mail-environment-december-2014.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Ian



I do not know anything about the email server that you mention above. I
have not seen *every* email server but I have never seen one that does
what you say and deals with email clients. I recall, from some time ago,
one that was WebMail based, no clients, no Thunderbird so no Enigmail,
and it was very limited unless you paid a monthly fee to use it.

As for email lists and attachments? I, once again do no know all, but I
can not think of a public one that accepts attachments.

Is that common in Switzerland?


-- 

  David



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Re: [Enigmail] From Circumvention

2015-03-06 Thread Ian Mann 
There is a comprehensive video on DIME on You Tube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWzvXaxR6us

Ian




On 07/03/15 13:14, Ian Mann wrote:
> Sent a message with attachment, but is too large. I was unaware of size 
> limit, sorry for the problem.
>
> I was saying Dark Mail addresses the issue of headers I read some time back. 
> They have a PDF out now on their system.
>
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20903929/dark-internet-mail-environment-december-2014.pdf
>
>
>
> Ian
>
>
>
>
> On 07/03/15 13:00, David wrote:
>> On 3/6/2015 8:39 PM, Ian Mann wrote:
>>> http://blog.linuxprogrammer.org/How%20to%20Sanitize%20Thunderbird%20and%20Enigmail.html
>>>
>>> This sanitizes some of the information.
>>>
>>> Ian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 07/03/15 11:23, David wrote:
 On 3/6/2015 3:37 PM, Phil Stracchino wrote:
> On 03/06/15 15:16, David wrote:
>> I am confused by this request. What difference does it make if
>> 'someone else' knows whose public is on your public keyring?
> If they know whose public keys are on your keyring, they know who you
> talk to.  You may not wish them to know this.  Depending on who you
> are and who you talk to, their knowing it could be very dangerous to you.
 You are aware that the *body* of the message is encrypted but the
 *header*, the email address you send to and the email address that you
 send from, and the complete path of all the email servers that the
 emails traveled though, is still open to the world? And that those
 emails are stored on all of those servers. Or at least they used to be
 stored.

 Which means that the whole world 'knows' just who you send emails to and
 receive emails from? You are using Thunderbird on a Linux OS.

 Select an email that you have sent to your friends, or one that they
 have sent to you, or anyone, and press Ctrl-U to open a new window of
 information. read carefully and closely.

 So if some admin of a key-server in some place 'knows' who you is on
 your Public-Keyring for email it is of little importance.


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 enigmail-users mailing list
 enigmail-users@enigmail.net
 To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here:
 https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
>>>
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>>> enigmail-users@enigmail.net
>>> To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here:
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>>>
>> This is from your post which was a reply to me that you posted here. As
>> you can see it is of little to no consequence if some one can see your
>> Public Key Ring. I edited the body parts to shorten the post since that
>> had nothing to do with my point here.
>>
>> As for 'someone' spying on you? If 'they' want to do that then they will
>> do that.  :-)
>>
>> ___
>> From - Fri Mar 06 20:46:13 2015
>> X-Account-Key: account3
>> X-UIDL: GmailId14bf1e33208c3a47
>> X-Mozilla-Status: 0011
>> X-Mozilla-Status2: 
>> X-Mozilla-Keys:
>>
>> Delivered-To: thetinsm...@gmail.com
>> Received: by 10.27.157.195 with SMTP id g186csp214059wle;
>> Fri, 6 Mar 2015 17:39:34 -0800 (PST)
>> X-Received: by 10.180.105.136 with SMTP id gm8mr140041wib.13.1425692373922;
>> Fri, 06 Mar 2015 17:39:33 -0800 (PST)
>> Return-Path: 
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>> (mailman012.mail.hostpoint.ch. [2a00:d70:0:e::722])
>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id
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>> Received-SPF: none (google.com: enigmail-users-boun...@enigmail.net does
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>> Message-ID: <54fa56bc.9070...

Re: [Enigmail] From Circumvention

2015-03-06 Thread Ian Mann 
Sent a message with attachment, but is too large. I was unaware of size limit, 
sorry for the problem.

I was saying Dark Mail addresses the issue of headers I read some time back. 
They have a PDF out now on their system.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20903929/dark-internet-mail-environment-december-2014.pdf



Ian




On 07/03/15 13:00, David wrote:
> On 3/6/2015 8:39 PM, Ian Mann wrote:
>> http://blog.linuxprogrammer.org/How%20to%20Sanitize%20Thunderbird%20and%20Enigmail.html
>>
>> This sanitizes some of the information.
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 07/03/15 11:23, David wrote:
>>> On 3/6/2015 3:37 PM, Phil Stracchino wrote:
 On 03/06/15 15:16, David wrote:
> I am confused by this request. What difference does it make if
> 'someone else' knows whose public is on your public keyring?
 If they know whose public keys are on your keyring, they know who you
 talk to.  You may not wish them to know this.  Depending on who you
 are and who you talk to, their knowing it could be very dangerous to you.
>>>
>>> You are aware that the *body* of the message is encrypted but the
>>> *header*, the email address you send to and the email address that you
>>> send from, and the complete path of all the email servers that the
>>> emails traveled though, is still open to the world? And that those
>>> emails are stored on all of those servers. Or at least they used to be
>>> stored.
>>>
>>> Which means that the whole world 'knows' just who you send emails to and
>>> receive emails from? You are using Thunderbird on a Linux OS.
>>>
>>> Select an email that you have sent to your friends, or one that they
>>> have sent to you, or anyone, and press Ctrl-U to open a new window of
>>> information. read carefully and closely.
>>>
>>> So if some admin of a key-server in some place 'knows' who you is on
>>> your Public-Keyring for email it is of little importance.
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> enigmail-users mailing list
>>> enigmail-users@enigmail.net
>>> To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here:
>>> https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
>>
>>
>> ___
>> enigmail-users mailing list
>> enigmail-users@enigmail.net
>> To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here:
>> https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
>>
> This is from your post which was a reply to me that you posted here. As
> you can see it is of little to no consequence if some one can see your
> Public Key Ring. I edited the body parts to shorten the post since that
> had nothing to do with my point here.
>
> As for 'someone' spying on you? If 'they' want to do that then they will
> do that.  :-)
>
> ___
> From - Fri Mar 06 20:46:13 2015
> X-Account-Key: account3
> X-UIDL: GmailId14bf1e33208c3a47
> X-Mozilla-Status: 0011
> X-Mozilla-Status2: 
> X-Mozilla-Keys:
>
> Delivered-To: thetinsm...@gmail.com
> Received: by 10.27.157.195 with SMTP id g186csp214059wle;
> Fri, 6 Mar 2015 17:39:34 -0800 (PST)
> X-Received: by 10.180.105.136 with SMTP id gm8mr140041wib.13.1425692373922;
> Fri, 06 Mar 2015 17:39:33 -0800 (PST)
> Return-Path: 
> Received: from mailman012.mail.hostpoint.ch
> (mailman012.mail.hostpoint.ch. [2a00:d70:0:e::722])
> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id
> h2si6483710wiv.16.2015.03.06.17.39.31
> (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128);
> Fri, 06 Mar 2015 17:39:33 -0800 (PST)
> Received-SPF: none (google.com: enigmail-users-boun...@enigmail.net does
> not designate permitted sender hosts) client-ip=2a00:d70:0:e::722;
> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>spf=none (google.com: enigmail-users-boun...@enigmail.net does
> not designate permitted sender hosts)
> smtp.mail=enigmail-users-boun...@enigmail.net
> Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mailman012.mail.hostpoint.ch)
>   by mailman012.mail.hostpoint.ch with esmtp (Exim 4.84 (FreeBSD))
>   (envelope-from )
>   id 1YU3hy-000AMJ-Ko; Sat, 07 Mar 2015 02:39:14 +0100
> Received: from [10.0.2.43] (helo=mxin016.mail.hostpoint.ch)
>  by mailman012.mail.hostpoint.ch with esmtp (Exim 4.84 (FreeBSD))
>  (envelope-from ) id 1YU3hw-000AM5-By
>  for enigmail-users@enigmail.net; Sat, 07 Mar 2015 02:39:12 +0100
> Received: from [5.148.176.57] (helo=s1.neomailbox.net)
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>  (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84 (FreeBSD))
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>  for enigmail-users@enigmail.net; Sat, 07 Mar 2015 02:39:12 +0100
> Message-ID: <54fa56bc.9070...@neomailbox.ch>
> Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 12:39:08 +1100
> From: Ian Mann 
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> To: enigmail-users@enigmail.net
> References: <54f5c8c2.3080...@sixdemonbag.org>
> <54f6f7fa.5040...@enigmail.net>
>  <54f78831.4090...@gmx.de> <54f7fae2.

Re: [Enigmail] From Circumvention

2015-03-06 Thread David 
On 3/6/2015 8:39 PM, Ian Mann wrote:
> http://blog.linuxprogrammer.org/How%20to%20Sanitize%20Thunderbird%20and%20Enigmail.html
> 
> This sanitizes some of the information.
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 07/03/15 11:23, David wrote:
>> On 3/6/2015 3:37 PM, Phil Stracchino wrote:
>>> On 03/06/15 15:16, David wrote:
 I am confused by this request. What difference does it make if
 'someone else' knows whose public is on your public keyring?
>>> If they know whose public keys are on your keyring, they know who you
>>> talk to.  You may not wish them to know this.  Depending on who you
>>> are and who you talk to, their knowing it could be very dangerous to you.
>>
>>
>> You are aware that the *body* of the message is encrypted but the
>> *header*, the email address you send to and the email address that you
>> send from, and the complete path of all the email servers that the
>> emails traveled though, is still open to the world? And that those
>> emails are stored on all of those servers. Or at least they used to be
>> stored.
>>
>> Which means that the whole world 'knows' just who you send emails to and
>> receive emails from? You are using Thunderbird on a Linux OS.
>>
>> Select an email that you have sent to your friends, or one that they
>> have sent to you, or anyone, and press Ctrl-U to open a new window of
>> information. read carefully and closely.
>>
>> So if some admin of a key-server in some place 'knows' who you is on
>> your Public-Keyring for email it is of little importance.
>>
>>
>> ___
>> enigmail-users mailing list
>> enigmail-users@enigmail.net
>> To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here:
>> https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> enigmail-users mailing list
> enigmail-users@enigmail.net
> To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here:
> https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
> 

This is from your post which was a reply to me that you posted here. As
you can see it is of little to no consequence if some one can see your
Public Key Ring. I edited the body parts to shorten the post since that
had nothing to do with my point here.

As for 'someone' spying on you? If 'they' want to do that then they will
do that.  :-)

___
From - Fri Mar 06 20:46:13 2015
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X-UIDL: GmailId14bf1e33208c3a47
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X-Mozilla-Keys:

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Subject: Re: [Enigmail] From Circumvention
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Re: [Enigmail] From Circumvention

2015-03-06 Thread Ian Mann 
http://blog.linuxprogrammer.org/How%20to%20Sanitize%20Thunderbird%20and%20Enigmail.html

This sanitizes some of the information.

Ian




On 07/03/15 11:23, David wrote:
> On 3/6/2015 3:37 PM, Phil Stracchino wrote:
>> On 03/06/15 15:16, David wrote:
>>> I am confused by this request. What difference does it make if
>>> 'someone else' knows whose public is on your public keyring?
>> If they know whose public keys are on your keyring, they know who you
>> talk to.  You may not wish them to know this.  Depending on who you
>> are and who you talk to, their knowing it could be very dangerous to you.
>
>
> You are aware that the *body* of the message is encrypted but the
> *header*, the email address you send to and the email address that you
> send from, and the complete path of all the email servers that the
> emails traveled though, is still open to the world? And that those
> emails are stored on all of those servers. Or at least they used to be
> stored.
>
> Which means that the whole world 'knows' just who you send emails to and
> receive emails from? You are using Thunderbird on a Linux OS.
>
> Select an email that you have sent to your friends, or one that they
> have sent to you, or anyone, and press Ctrl-U to open a new window of
> information. read carefully and closely.
>
> So if some admin of a key-server in some place 'knows' who you is on
> your Public-Keyring for email it is of little importance.
>
>
> ___
> enigmail-users mailing list
> enigmail-users@enigmail.net
> To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here:
> https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net

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Re: [Enigmail] From Circumvention

2015-03-06 Thread David 
On 3/6/2015 3:37 PM, Phil Stracchino wrote:
> On 03/06/15 15:16, David wrote:
>> I am confused by this request. What difference does it make if
>> 'someone else' knows whose public is on your public keyring?
> 
> If they know whose public keys are on your keyring, they know who you
> talk to.  You may not wish them to know this.  Depending on who you
> are and who you talk to, their knowing it could be very dangerous to you.



You are aware that the *body* of the message is encrypted but the
*header*, the email address you send to and the email address that you
send from, and the complete path of all the email servers that the
emails traveled though, is still open to the world? And that those
emails are stored on all of those servers. Or at least they used to be
stored.

Which means that the whole world 'knows' just who you send emails to and
receive emails from? You are using Thunderbird on a Linux OS.

Select an email that you have sent to your friends, or one that they
have sent to you, or anyone, and press Ctrl-U to open a new window of
information. read carefully and closely.

So if some admin of a key-server in some place 'knows' who you is on
your Public-Keyring for email it is of little importance.
-- 

  David





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Re: [Enigmail] From Circumvention

2015-03-06 Thread Rainer Blome 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Am 06.03.2015 um 21:37 schrieb Phil Stracchino:
> On 03/06/15 15:16, David wrote:
>> I am confused by this request. What difference does it make if 
>> 'someone else' knows whose public is on your public keyring?
> 
> If they know whose public keys are on your keyring, they know who
> you talk to.  You may not wish them to know this.  Depending on who
> you are and who you talk to, their knowing it could be very
> dangerous to you.

That is what I mean.

Security is a matter of cost and benefit.
Against an adversary who can monitor all global smtp traffic,
this would not make a difference, because such an adversary
already knows who everyone is connected to.
But there are not many of these.
Less capable adversaries probably know only a fraction of the
metadata flying around. To these, when such a feature is in effect,
compromising a keyserver or its traffic would be a cost-effective way
to learn many communication relationships.

When you want your communication partners to use a new key
of yours, why wait until they notice or poll a server?
Why not tell them immediately? Seems like a client-side,
key ring management job to me. If a mail client or key store
notices an expired or superseded key, it might offer or at
least suggest to notify the relevant communication partners.

Rainer
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Re: [Enigmail] From Circumvention

2015-03-06 Thread Phil Stracchino 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On 03/06/15 15:16, David wrote:
> I am confused by this request. What difference does it make if
> 'someone else' knows whose public is on your public keyring?

If they know whose public keys are on your keyring, they know who you
talk to.  You may not wish them to know this.  Depending on who you
are and who you talk to, their knowing it could be very dangerous to you.


- -- 
  Phil Stracchino
  Babylon Communications
  ph...@caerllewys.net
  p...@co.ordinate.org
  Landline: 603.293.8485
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Re: [Enigmail] From Circumvention

2015-03-06 Thread David 
On 3/5/2015 8:51 AM, Stefan wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Am 05.03.15 um 07:42 schrieb Ludwig Hügelschäfer:
>> On 04.03.15 23:33, Rainer Blome wrote:
>>> Am 04.03.2015 um 13:18 schrieb Patrick Brunschwig:
 We could also implement something like an automatic monthly
 check of all keys on keyservers.
>>
>>> Would this amount to sending your "PGP address book" to the key
>>> server? That is something some might want to avoid.
>>
>> The keyserver would be requested for every key in your keyring - of
>> course not for those which are already revoked.
> 
> I think was Rainer means is the fact that requesting updates from every
> key in your keyring would show the keyserver admin and everyone on the
> probably unsecured connection which keys are in your keyring.
> 
> I also would like such a feature, but thought should be given whether
> this should be the default. (And information about the implications in
> the UI would be nice.)
> 
> Cheers,



I am confused by this request. What difference does it make if 'someone
else' knows whose public is on your public keyring?


-- 

  David



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Re: [Enigmail] From Circumvention

2015-03-06 Thread Philip Jackson 
On 03/03/15 18:27, Philip Jackson wrote:
> On 03/03/15 15:44, Robert J. Hansen wrote:
>>  Really easy:
>>
>>   1.  The "Help" button beside "Convenient encryption settings" is
>>   sometimes unresponsive.  I saw this bug with my own two eyes
>>   (thanks, Dmitri!) and can confirm it.
> 
> 
> While we are talking about this 'help' button, I'll add a comment.
> 
> In my system : Ubuntu1404, Thunderbird 31.4.0 and enigmanil 1.8b1 :
> 
> clicking this button opens the help dialogue in the background perfectly 
> aligned
> with the preferences dialogue.  Fortunately the help dialog is a little taller
> otherwise you'd never know it had opened.
> 

Further to strange / defective Help function in enigmail :

I've just installed a debian os on an old portable and added Icedove 35.1 and
enigmail 1.8b1.  The Help button on the enigmail preferences/ sending tab did
not appear to do anything.

In fact it opened a small window behind the preferences window.  The help window
was so small that it was completely masked by the preferences window.

Perhaps this couold be fixed prior to release of 1.8 ?
Philip




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