Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 3:12 AM, P Purkayastha ppu...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/21/2012 07:26 AM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:30:42 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: Ideas: - About - inside settings, doesn't need to be so highlighted as the main menu. I'd say rename settings so we can use it for more than just that, it's a place holder for other stuff of enlightenment. renaming it is not a good idea... where do people find settings them? settings is one of the better bits of the menu. changing it just because you wish to get rid of the enlightenment entry is overall becoming worse than better. - Restart/Exit E: again, this is just for E17 test, so bad for end-users. I've mentioned Xephyr but indeed you might forget to grab and the shortcut will go to outside E17 and problems will happen. What about doing it for Everything? Then you see where you'll type the action and it's clear. You can name them e-restart and e-exit commands. i'm sure not going to do all this work just to remove a menu, that to date has not caused any issues i know of. i've asked a few times now for real info on issues it's caused - real datapoints. but unless there is another viable and sane way of doing these things - they stay. doing some minor re-labelling is doable. maybe moving a menu item here and there, but now we're talking of work that REALLY doesn't need to be done - there are much more important things to do. :) In the mood of refactoring the menus... if we merge Enlightenment + Settings (maybe call it Enlightenment?), we can remove the Desktop from settings includes stuff unrelated to e at all - see the system and preferences tabs that pull in standard settings tools. main menu as it's not as useful (menu to change desktop is not that common, add/configure shelves and gadgets are more like configuration that you do once a year, show/hide windows can go under Windows main menu entry). so its in a submenu... that's why its in a submenu. its a single entry in the main menu for general desktop controls. if it was inside the main menu - i'd totally agree. please read up about the latest windows 8 criticisms. you're going the exact same direction. you're on a head-long run into trying to remove as much as you can, and in the process you hurt discoverability (and usability) and the people who don't know the key bindings etc. etc. etc. - everything even vaguely useful or used even a few times SHOULD be in a menu - even if it's not used much. in fact we currently have too FEW things in menus. we've removed way too much. people need to be able to find the thing they want without knowing magic gestures, invisible click regions, or obscure keybindings etc. - the main menu is just that. it's a central point of control that is very fast to find (start gadget or click anywhere on the desktop - probably one of the first things a person does when presented with a new blank wm/screen). this menu should provide a easy starting point for a user to discover more and access the things they need or want. preferably nothing should be more than 2 or 3 clicks/jumps away (but reality is that we have so many options, features etc. that we just can't sensibly manage that without a menu-from-hell). i fully support the streamlining and improving of menus. agreed, but removing stuff is something that should be done only as a very last resort. re-organizing - sure, but at this stage i sure don't want to spend the time re-organizing the main menu. modules DEPEND on existing hook points to insert items - re-orgs affect all of those. As for Windows i dislike it and shouldn't be that useful... but the cleanup windows and the action to recover lost windows are indeed useful... but likely the DM should avoid losing the windows instead of add them to a menu? Anyway, this one i see more reasoning to keep. it happens that apps ask to place their windows off the screen - and e honors that. in the case of things like guake they legitimately want a window off the screen so they can slide it in (yes - i know. this is a hack, and should be part of the wm and quickaccess, but apps will persist in doing these things themselves). if you ignore such requests you then break such apps, so reality is... in order to not break some apps, windows can become lost - when apps try remember their position, and you changed resolution/monitors since (x11amp used to love doing this), and you had it bottom-right, and now it asks for a position off the screen.. and you can't get to the window. that menu item exists because of real world problems and we can try as we might - we either break app a or break app b. the menu is the solution to when things break. if we could actually modify the apps to ensure none of them do
Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi wrote: On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 3:12 AM, P Purkayastha ppu...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/21/2012 07:26 AM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:30:42 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: Ideas: - About - inside settings, doesn't need to be so highlighted as the main menu. I'd say rename settings so we can use it for more than just that, it's a place holder for other stuff of enlightenment. renaming it is not a good idea... where do people find settings them? settings is one of the better bits of the menu. changing it just because you wish to get rid of the enlightenment entry is overall becoming worse than better. - Restart/Exit E: again, this is just for E17 test, so bad for end-users. I've mentioned Xephyr but indeed you might forget to grab and the shortcut will go to outside E17 and problems will happen. What about doing it for Everything? Then you see where you'll type the action and it's clear. You can name them e-restart and e-exit commands. i'm sure not going to do all this work just to remove a menu, that to date has not caused any issues i know of. i've asked a few times now for real info on issues it's caused - real datapoints. but unless there is another viable and sane way of doing these things - they stay. doing some minor re-labelling is doable. maybe moving a menu item here and there, but now we're talking of work that REALLY doesn't need to be done - there are much more important things to do. :) In the mood of refactoring the menus... if we merge Enlightenment + Settings (maybe call it Enlightenment?), we can remove the Desktop from settings includes stuff unrelated to e at all - see the system and preferences tabs that pull in standard settings tools. main menu as it's not as useful (menu to change desktop is not that common, add/configure shelves and gadgets are more like configuration that you do once a year, show/hide windows can go under Windows main menu entry). so its in a submenu... that's why its in a submenu. its a single entry in the main menu for general desktop controls. if it was inside the main menu - i'd totally agree. please read up about the latest windows 8 criticisms. you're going the exact same direction. you're on a head-long run into trying to remove as much as you can, and in the process you hurt discoverability (and usability) and the people who don't know the key bindings etc. etc. etc. - everything even vaguely useful or used even a few times SHOULD be in a menu - even if it's not used much. in fact we currently have too FEW things in menus. we've removed way too much. people need to be able to find the thing they want without knowing magic gestures, invisible click regions, or obscure keybindings etc. - the main menu is just that. it's a central point of control that is very fast to find (start gadget or click anywhere on the desktop - probably one of the first things a person does when presented with a new blank wm/screen). this menu should provide a easy starting point for a user to discover more and access the things they need or want. preferably nothing should be more than 2 or 3 clicks/jumps away (but reality is that we have so many options, features etc. that we just can't sensibly manage that without a menu-from-hell). i fully support the streamlining and improving of menus. agreed, but removing stuff is something that should be done only as a very last resort. re-organizing - sure, but at this stage i sure don't want to spend the time re-organizing the main menu. modules DEPEND on existing hook points to insert items - re-orgs affect all of those. As for Windows i dislike it and shouldn't be that useful... but the cleanup windows and the action to recover lost windows are indeed useful... but likely the DM should avoid losing the windows instead of add them to a menu? Anyway, this one i see more reasoning to keep. it happens that apps ask to place their windows off the screen - and e honors that. in the case of things like guake they legitimately want a window off the screen so they can slide it in (yes - i know. this is a hack, and should be part of the wm and quickaccess, but apps will persist in doing these things themselves). if you ignore such requests you then break such apps, so reality is... in order to not break some apps, windows can become lost - when apps try remember their position, and you changed resolution/monitors since (x11amp used to love doing this), and you had it bottom-right, and now it asks for a position off the screen.. and you can't get to the window. that menu item exists because of real world problems and we can try as we might - we either break app a or break app b. the menu is the
Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:42:08 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 3:12 AM, P Purkayastha ppu...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/21/2012 07:26 AM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:30:42 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: Ideas: - About - inside settings, doesn't need to be so highlighted as the main menu. I'd say rename settings so we can use it for more than just that, it's a place holder for other stuff of enlightenment. renaming it is not a good idea... where do people find settings them? settings is one of the better bits of the menu. changing it just because you wish to get rid of the enlightenment entry is overall becoming worse than better. - Restart/Exit E: again, this is just for E17 test, so bad for end-users. I've mentioned Xephyr but indeed you might forget to grab and the shortcut will go to outside E17 and problems will happen. What about doing it for Everything? Then you see where you'll type the action and it's clear. You can name them e-restart and e-exit commands. i'm sure not going to do all this work just to remove a menu, that to date has not caused any issues i know of. i've asked a few times now for real info on issues it's caused - real datapoints. but unless there is another viable and sane way of doing these things - they stay. doing some minor re-labelling is doable. maybe moving a menu item here and there, but now we're talking of work that REALLY doesn't need to be done - there are much more important things to do. :) In the mood of refactoring the menus... if we merge Enlightenment + Settings (maybe call it Enlightenment?), we can remove the Desktop from settings includes stuff unrelated to e at all - see the system and preferences tabs that pull in standard settings tools. main menu as it's not as useful (menu to change desktop is not that common, add/configure shelves and gadgets are more like configuration that you do once a year, show/hide windows can go under Windows main menu entry). so its in a submenu... that's why its in a submenu. its a single entry in the main menu for general desktop controls. if it was inside the main menu - i'd totally agree. please read up about the latest windows 8 criticisms. you're going the exact same direction. you're on a head-long run into trying to remove as much as you can, and in the process you hurt discoverability (and usability) and the people who don't know the key bindings etc. etc. etc. - everything even vaguely useful or used even a few times SHOULD be in a menu - even if it's not used much. in fact we currently have too FEW things in menus. we've removed way too much. people need to be able to find the thing they want without knowing magic gestures, invisible click regions, or obscure keybindings etc. - the main menu is just that. it's a central point of control that is very fast to find (start gadget or click anywhere on the desktop - probably one of the first things a person does when presented with a new blank wm/screen). this menu should provide a easy starting point for a user to discover more and access the things they need or want. preferably nothing should be more than 2 or 3 clicks/jumps away (but reality is that we have so many options, features etc. that we just can't sensibly manage that without a menu-from-hell). i fully support the streamlining and improving of menus. agreed, but removing stuff is something that should be done only as a very last resort. re-organizing - sure, but at this stage i sure don't want to spend the time re-organizing the main menu. modules DEPEND on existing hook points to insert items - re-orgs affect all of those. As for Windows i dislike it and shouldn't be that useful... but the cleanup windows and the action to recover lost windows are indeed useful... but likely the DM should avoid losing the windows instead of add them to a menu? Anyway, this one i see more reasoning to keep. it happens that apps ask to place their windows off the screen - and e honors that. in the case of things like guake they legitimately want a window off the screen so they can slide it in (yes - i know. this is a hack, and should be part of the wm and quickaccess, but apps will persist in doing these things themselves). if you ignore such requests you then break such apps, so reality is... in order to not break some apps, windows can become lost - when apps try remember their position, and you changed resolution/monitors since (x11amp used to love doing this), and you had it bottom-right, and now it asks for a position off the screen.. and you can't get to the window. that menu item exists
Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
Am Dienstag, 20. November 2012 um 02:43 schrieb Carsten Haitzler: On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:35:18 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi (mailto:lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi) said: i just tried adding about enlightenment and restart enlightenment, exit enlightenment and it's horrible text duplication - it looks awful and repetitive. it's already under the enlightenment parent item - thus the topic already is enlightenment... there's context. the on ly thing that makes sense to change is Theme - About Theme How about connecting that dialog to a button in the theme configuration and remove its link from the main menu? On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com (mailto:ras...@rasterman.com) wrote: On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:46:04 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi (mailto:lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi) said: Does the enlightenment menu still make sense? IMO actions on this menu could either be absorbed by other menus or removed altogether: - About: remove (outdated/useless info?) about is 100% up to date. it shows the current version, authors and licensing info. the unstable message will go once e is released. My question is: why is this any useful to the user? We could hide it a bit more in the menus or anywhere else, not standing in the first sublevel menu as if the user had an urgent need to know this info I myself never used it. - Theme: remove (btw, it opens a window saying I'm using BW theme instead of dark) this is the place themers can advertise... it should stay. and yes - i know it doesnt talk about the new theme - it's not updated yet. Why? My first guess when I look at it is to change the current theme, not to open a window talking about the current theme. - Restart: move to System menu? restart system or e? reaname it to Restart E or remove, letting things like this to be ctrl+alt +end - Exit: already done by System Logout umm no. exit is different. exit just exits e. logout tries to close all running windows then exits. exit is immediate. logout will wait and show a popup etc. And... what do we need this for? Lucas De Marchi -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net (mailto:enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net) https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com (mailto:ras...@rasterman.com) -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net (mailto:enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net) https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- Leif -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
On Tuesday, November 20, 2012, Leif Middelschulte wrote: Am Dienstag, 20. November 2012 um 02:43 schrieb Carsten Haitzler: On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:35:18 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi javascript:; (mailto: lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi javascript:;) said: i just tried adding about enlightenment and restart enlightenment, exit enlightenment and it's horrible text duplication - it looks awful and repetitive. it's already under the enlightenment parent item - thus the topic already is enlightenment... there's context. the on ly thing that makes sense to change is Theme - About Theme How about connecting that dialog to a button in the theme configuration and remove its link from the main menu? I like this idea, the theme choose dialog could be bumped a bit and include a screenshot object (EDC group) and also one about/authors, maybe link to website. Another option is what I suggested before to make a single about for theme and e As fit others (restart, exit): thinking again they sound too technical and just useful during the development of e itself. I'd say remove it and keep the keyboard actions. On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com javascript:; (mailto:ras...@rasterman.comjavascript:; ) wrote: On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:46:04 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi javascript:; (mailto: lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi javascript:;) said: Does the enlightenment menu still make sense? IMO actions on this menu could either be absorbed by other menus or removed altogether: - About: remove (outdated/useless info?) about is 100% up to date. it shows the current version, authors and licensing info. the unstable message will go once e is released. My question is: why is this any useful to the user? We could hide it a bit more in the menus or anywhere else, not standing in the first sublevel menu as if the user had an urgent need to know this info I myself never used it. - Theme: remove (btw, it opens a window saying I'm using BW theme instead of dark) this is the place themers can advertise... it should stay. and yes - i know it doesnt talk about the new theme - it's not updated yet. Why? My first guess when I look at it is to change the current theme, not to open a window talking about the current theme. - Restart: move to System menu? restart system or e? reaname it to Restart E or remove, letting things like this to be ctrl+alt +end - Exit: already done by System Logout umm no. exit is different. exit just exits e. logout tries to close all running windows then exits. exit is immediate. logout will wait and show a popup etc. And... what do we need this for? Lucas De Marchi -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net javascript:; (mailto: enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net javascript:;) https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com javascript:;(mailto: ras...@rasterman.com javascript:;) -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net javascript:; (mailto: enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net javascript:;) https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- Leif -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list
Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi wrote: On Tuesday, November 20, 2012, Leif Middelschulte wrote: Am Dienstag, 20. November 2012 um 02:43 schrieb Carsten Haitzler: On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:35:18 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi javascript:; (mailto: lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi javascript:;) said: i just tried adding about enlightenment and restart enlightenment, exit enlightenment and it's horrible text duplication - it looks awful and repetitive. it's already under the enlightenment parent item - thus the topic already is enlightenment... there's context. the on ly thing that makes sense to change is Theme - About Theme How about connecting that dialog to a button in the theme configuration and remove its link from the main menu? I like this idea, the theme choose dialog could be bumped a bit and include a screenshot object (EDC group) and also one about/authors, maybe link to website. Another option is what I suggested before to make a single about for theme and e One single window for E + theme about does sound better. As fit others (restart, exit): thinking again they sound too technical and just useful during the development of e itself. I'd say remove it and keep the keyboard actions. Indeed, that was what I wanted to say. Lucas De Marchi -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 12:07:06 +0100 Leif Middelschulte leif.middelschu...@gmail.com said: Am Dienstag, 20. November 2012 um 02:43 schrieb Carsten Haitzler: On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:35:18 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi (mailto:lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi) said: i just tried adding about enlightenment and restart enlightenment, exit enlightenment and it's horrible text duplication - it looks awful and repetitive. it's already under the enlightenment parent item - thus the topic already is enlightenment... there's context. the on ly thing that makes sense to change is Theme - About Theme How about connecting that dialog to a button in the theme configuration and remove its link from the main menu? to what purpose? unless the whole submenu goes, it may as well stay. On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com (mailto:ras...@rasterman.com) wrote: On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:46:04 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi (mailto:lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi) said: Does the enlightenment menu still make sense? IMO actions on this menu could either be absorbed by other menus or removed altogether: - About: remove (outdated/useless info?) about is 100% up to date. it shows the current version, authors and licensing info. the unstable message will go once e is released. My question is: why is this any useful to the user? We could hide it a bit more in the menus or anywhere else, not standing in the first sublevel menu as if the user had an urgent need to know this info I myself never used it. - Theme: remove (btw, it opens a window saying I'm using BW theme instead of dark) this is the place themers can advertise... it should stay. and yes - i know it doesnt talk about the new theme - it's not updated yet. Why? My first guess when I look at it is to change the current theme, not to open a window talking about the current theme. - Restart: move to System menu? restart system or e? reaname it to Restart E or remove, letting things like this to be ctrl +alt +end - Exit: already done by System Logout umm no. exit is different. exit just exits e. logout tries to close all running windows then exits. exit is immediate. logout will wait and show a popup etc. And... what do we need this for? Lucas De Marchi -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net (mailto:enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net) https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com (mailto:ras...@rasterman.com) -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net (mailto:enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net) https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- Leif -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud
Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:43:05 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: On Tuesday, November 20, 2012, Leif Middelschulte wrote: Am Dienstag, 20. November 2012 um 02:43 schrieb Carsten Haitzler: On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:35:18 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi javascript:; (mailto: lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi javascript:;) said: i just tried adding about enlightenment and restart enlightenment, exit enlightenment and it's horrible text duplication - it looks awful and repetitive. it's already under the enlightenment parent item - thus the topic already is enlightenment... there's context. the on ly thing that makes sense to change is Theme - About Theme How about connecting that dialog to a button in the theme configuration and remove its link from the main menu? I like this idea, the theme choose dialog could be bumped a bit and include a screenshot object (EDC group) and also one about/authors, maybe link to website. Another option is what I suggested before to make a single about for theme and e As fit others (restart, exit): thinking again they sound too technical and just useful during the development of e itself. I'd say remove it and keep the keyboard actions. if there is just a keybinding, i literally will have to jump through a whole bunch of extra hoops with testing. when you use xpehyr you can kiss keybindings (and mousebindings) goodbye (without jumping through hoops). again - where are the actual issues users have had? On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com javascript:; (mailto:ras...@rasterman.comjavascript:; ) wrote: On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:46:04 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi javascript:; (mailto: lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi javascript:;) said: Does the enlightenment menu still make sense? IMO actions on this menu could either be absorbed by other menus or removed altogether: - About: remove (outdated/useless info?) about is 100% up to date. it shows the current version, authors and licensing info. the unstable message will go once e is released. My question is: why is this any useful to the user? We could hide it a bit more in the menus or anywhere else, not standing in the first sublevel menu as if the user had an urgent need to know this info I myself never used it. - Theme: remove (btw, it opens a window saying I'm using BW theme instead of dark) this is the place themers can advertise... it should stay. and yes - i know it doesnt talk about the new theme - it's not updated yet. Why? My first guess when I look at it is to change the current theme, not to open a window talking about the current theme. - Restart: move to System menu? restart system or e? reaname it to Restart E or remove, letting things like this to be ctrl+alt +end - Exit: already done by System Logout umm no. exit is different. exit just exits e. logout tries to close all running windows then exits. exit is immediate. logout will wait and show a popup etc. And... what do we need this for? Lucas De Marchi -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net javascript:; (mailto: enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net javascript:;) https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com javascript:; (mailto: ras...@rasterman.com javascript:;) -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net javascript:; (mailto: enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net javascript:;) https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- Leif
Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:43:05 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: On Tuesday, November 20, 2012, Leif Middelschulte wrote: Am Dienstag, 20. November 2012 um 02:43 schrieb Carsten Haitzler: On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:35:18 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi javascript:; (mailto: lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi javascript:;) said: i just tried adding about enlightenment and restart enlightenment, exit enlightenment and it's horrible text duplication - it looks awful and repetitive. it's already under the enlightenment parent item - thus the topic already is enlightenment... there's context. the on ly thing that makes sense to change is Theme - About Theme How about connecting that dialog to a button in the theme configuration and remove its link from the main menu? I like this idea, the theme choose dialog could be bumped a bit and include a screenshot object (EDC group) and also one about/authors, maybe link to website. Another option is what I suggested before to make a single about for theme and e As fit others (restart, exit): thinking again they sound too technical and just useful during the development of e itself. I'd say remove it and keep the keyboard actions. if there is just a keybinding, i literally will have to jump through a whole bunch of extra hoops with testing. when you use xpehyr you can kiss keybindings (and mousebindings) goodbye (without jumping through hoops). again - where are the actual issues users have had? humn... maybe this was just me. And I'd not claim to be an example of user. I always felt this menu was weird/misplaced, but you never heard about it because I never bothered to say a word ;-). Again, maybe this is just me trying to think about a regular user Lucas De Marchi -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:02:29 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi said: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:43:05 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: On Tuesday, November 20, 2012, Leif Middelschulte wrote: Am Dienstag, 20. November 2012 um 02:43 schrieb Carsten Haitzler: On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:35:18 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi javascript:; (mailto: lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi javascript:;) said: i just tried adding about enlightenment and restart enlightenment, exit enlightenment and it's horrible text duplication - it looks awful and repetitive. it's already under the enlightenment parent item - thus the topic already is enlightenment... there's context. the on ly thing that makes sense to change is Theme - About Theme How about connecting that dialog to a button in the theme configuration and remove its link from the main menu? I like this idea, the theme choose dialog could be bumped a bit and include a screenshot object (EDC group) and also one about/authors, maybe link to website. Another option is what I suggested before to make a single about for theme and e As fit others (restart, exit): thinking again they sound too technical and just useful during the development of e itself. I'd say remove it and keep the keyboard actions. if there is just a keybinding, i literally will have to jump through a whole bunch of extra hoops with testing. when you use xpehyr you can kiss keybindings (and mousebindings) goodbye (without jumping through hoops). again - where are the actual issues users have had? humn... maybe this was just me. And I'd not claim to be an example of user. I always felt this menu was weird/misplaced, but you never heard about it because I never bothered to say a word ;-). Again, maybe this is just me trying to think about a regular user sure - understood, but fyi - i use that menu every time i test e17 in xephyr. that menu i there because MOST wm's have that feature (desktops do not though and e is kind of half-way between), also the about enlightenment needs to go somewhere... because otherwise there is no sensible way for us to ask the user what version of e do you have? and for them to tell us (if you expect they know how to use a package manager to find out etc... then we expect a hell of a lot from users), other than that - it's a place to visibly list the people who have contributed to e17 - they deserve a bit of a spotlight, and from a legal point of view, it indicates in an accessible way to the user what e17's license is... well at least where to find it. actually it SHOULD literally have a copy of the license there - something i need to fix before full release. not to mention just about every app with a menu has an about box.. often help - about ... so i don't see a usability issue with the about box. for the theme - you are right theme there was too uninformative - i've made it about theme. also having something to configure theme from the theme about dialog was a good idea too. leifs idea of having a button from the theme config dialog to show the theme about seems just great to me - i like it, but that doesn't mean we REMOVE the theme about here... either way - it doesnt hurt to have it as long as that submenu still exists. if we cut it down to 1 item then a 1 item submenu just looks stupid... so we're down to restart and exit. both of which i use relatively regularly during testing of e and the restart menu provides a discoverable way to restart e without knowing a magic keybinding, reading docs or going through a much longer list of keybindings in the gui config dialog... now.. if enlightenment should be an entry in the main menu or another level down or so - that is up for debate - but looking at the main menu, i just don't see anywhere nice and sensible for it... and it is just 1 entry - we're arguing over a single entry - it's not like we have 10 or 20 of them filling up the screen... so in summary - the menu is there for specific usability reasons - testing and wm features, as well as just needing a home for specific things like an about dialog entry... if this menu is actually causing user confusion - i'd like to see a bit more than 1 data point. like actual users going help- i hit restart and i dont know what it does - i don't know what to do? or help - what is this about entry - it confuses me etc. - if there are real problems then maybe we need to do some work to find a new home for it... but at this moment i can't see a home for it readily waiting... :) -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud
Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
Ideas: - About - inside settings, doesn't need to be so highlighted as the main menu. I'd say rename settings so we can use it for more than just that, it's a place holder for other stuff of enlightenment. - Restart/Exit E: again, this is just for E17 test, so bad for end-users. I've mentioned Xephyr but indeed you might forget to grab and the shortcut will go to outside E17 and problems will happen. What about doing it for Everything? Then you see where you'll type the action and it's clear. You can name them e-restart and e-exit commands. In the mood of refactoring the menus... if we merge Enlightenment + Settings (maybe call it Enlightenment?), we can remove the Desktop from main menu as it's not as useful (menu to change desktop is not that common, add/configure shelves and gadgets are more like configuration that you do once a year, show/hide windows can go under Windows main menu entry). As for Windows i dislike it and shouldn't be that useful... but the cleanup windows and the action to recover lost windows are indeed useful... but likely the DM should avoid losing the windows instead of add them to a menu? Anyway, this one i see more reasoning to keep. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.comwrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:02:29 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi said: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:43:05 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: On Tuesday, November 20, 2012, Leif Middelschulte wrote: Am Dienstag, 20. November 2012 um 02:43 schrieb Carsten Haitzler: On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:35:18 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi javascript:; (mailto: lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi javascript:;) said: i just tried adding about enlightenment and restart enlightenment, exit enlightenment and it's horrible text duplication - it looks awful and repetitive. it's already under the enlightenment parent item - thus the topic already is enlightenment... there's context. the on ly thing that makes sense to change is Theme - About Theme How about connecting that dialog to a button in the theme configuration and remove its link from the main menu? I like this idea, the theme choose dialog could be bumped a bit and include a screenshot object (EDC group) and also one about/authors, maybe link to website. Another option is what I suggested before to make a single about for theme and e As fit others (restart, exit): thinking again they sound too technical and just useful during the development of e itself. I'd say remove it and keep the keyboard actions. if there is just a keybinding, i literally will have to jump through a whole bunch of extra hoops with testing. when you use xpehyr you can kiss keybindings (and mousebindings) goodbye (without jumping through hoops). again - where are the actual issues users have had? humn... maybe this was just me. And I'd not claim to be an example of user. I always felt this menu was weird/misplaced, but you never heard about it because I never bothered to say a word ;-). Again, maybe this is just me trying to think about a regular user sure - understood, but fyi - i use that menu every time i test e17 in xephyr. that menu i there because MOST wm's have that feature (desktops do not though and e is kind of half-way between), also the about enlightenment needs to go somewhere... because otherwise there is no sensible way for us to ask the user what version of e do you have? and for them to tell us (if you expect they know how to use a package manager to find out etc... then we expect a hell of a lot from users), other than that - it's a place to visibly list the people who have contributed to e17 - they deserve a bit of a spotlight, and from a legal point of view, it indicates in an accessible way to the user what e17's license is... well at least where to find it. actually it SHOULD literally have a copy of the license there - something i need to fix before full release. not to mention just about every app with a menu has an about box.. often help - about ... so i don't see a usability issue with the about box. for the theme - you are right theme there was too uninformative - i've made it about theme. also having something to configure theme from the theme about dialog was a good idea too. leifs idea of having a button from the theme config dialog to show the theme about seems just great to me - i like it, but that doesn't mean we REMOVE the theme about here... either way - it doesnt hurt to have it as long as that submenu still exists. if we cut it down to 1 item then a 1 item submenu just looks stupid... so we're down to restart and exit. both of which i use relatively regularly during testing of e
Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:30:42 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: Ideas: - About - inside settings, doesn't need to be so highlighted as the main menu. I'd say rename settings so we can use it for more than just that, it's a place holder for other stuff of enlightenment. renaming it is not a good idea... where do people find settings them? settings is one of the better bits of the menu. changing it just because you wish to get rid of the enlightenment entry is overall becoming worse than better. - Restart/Exit E: again, this is just for E17 test, so bad for end-users. I've mentioned Xephyr but indeed you might forget to grab and the shortcut will go to outside E17 and problems will happen. What about doing it for Everything? Then you see where you'll type the action and it's clear. You can name them e-restart and e-exit commands. i'm sure not going to do all this work just to remove a menu, that to date has not caused any issues i know of. i've asked a few times now for real info on issues it's caused - real datapoints. but unless there is another viable and sane way of doing these things - they stay. doing some minor re-labelling is doable. maybe moving a menu item here and there, but now we're talking of work that REALLY doesn't need to be done - there are much more important things to do. :) In the mood of refactoring the menus... if we merge Enlightenment + Settings (maybe call it Enlightenment?), we can remove the Desktop from settings includes stuff unrelated to e at all - see the system and preferences tabs that pull in standard settings tools. main menu as it's not as useful (menu to change desktop is not that common, add/configure shelves and gadgets are more like configuration that you do once a year, show/hide windows can go under Windows main menu entry). so its in a submenu... that's why its in a submenu. its a single entry in the main menu for general desktop controls. if it was inside the main menu - i'd totally agree. please read up about the latest windows 8 criticisms. you're going the exact same direction. you're on a head-long run into trying to remove as much as you can, and in the process you hurt discoverability (and usability) and the people who don't know the key bindings etc. etc. etc. - everything even vaguely useful or used even a few times SHOULD be in a menu - even if it's not used much. in fact we currently have too FEW things in menus. we've removed way too much. people need to be able to find the thing they want without knowing magic gestures, invisible click regions, or obscure keybindings etc. - the main menu is just that. it's a central point of control that is very fast to find (start gadget or click anywhere on the desktop - probably one of the first things a person does when presented with a new blank wm/screen). this menu should provide a easy starting point for a user to discover more and access the things they need or want. preferably nothing should be more than 2 or 3 clicks/jumps away (but reality is that we have so many options, features etc. that we just can't sensibly manage that without a menu-from-hell). i fully support the streamlining and improving of menus. agreed, but removing stuff is something that should be done only as a very last resort. re-organizing - sure, but at this stage i sure don't want to spend the time re-organizing the main menu. modules DEPEND on existing hook points to insert items - re-orgs affect all of those. As for Windows i dislike it and shouldn't be that useful... but the cleanup windows and the action to recover lost windows are indeed useful... but likely the DM should avoid losing the windows instead of add them to a menu? Anyway, this one i see more reasoning to keep. it happens that apps ask to place their windows off the screen - and e honors that. in the case of things like guake they legitimately want a window off the screen so they can slide it in (yes - i know. this is a hack, and should be part of the wm and quickaccess, but apps will persist in doing these things themselves). if you ignore such requests you then break such apps, so reality is... in order to not break some apps, windows can become lost - when apps try remember their position, and you changed resolution/monitors since (x11amp used to love doing this), and you had it bottom-right, and now it asks for a position off the screen.. and you can't get to the window. that menu item exists because of real world problems and we can try as we might - we either break app a or break app b. the menu is the solution to when things break. if we could actually modify the apps to ensure none of them do stupid things like this - we'd have a good solution... but we can't :) also fyi - the windows menu is there because most wm's in x11 have had such a thing, and i highly suggest we don't make the gnome 3 mistake of forgetting our roots in favor of chasing some userbase that may never come. it also serves the
Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
On 11/21/2012 07:26 AM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:30:42 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri barbi...@profusion.mobi said: Ideas: - About - inside settings, doesn't need to be so highlighted as the main menu. I'd say rename settings so we can use it for more than just that, it's a place holder for other stuff of enlightenment. renaming it is not a good idea... where do people find settings them? settings is one of the better bits of the menu. changing it just because you wish to get rid of the enlightenment entry is overall becoming worse than better. - Restart/Exit E: again, this is just for E17 test, so bad for end-users. I've mentioned Xephyr but indeed you might forget to grab and the shortcut will go to outside E17 and problems will happen. What about doing it for Everything? Then you see where you'll type the action and it's clear. You can name them e-restart and e-exit commands. i'm sure not going to do all this work just to remove a menu, that to date has not caused any issues i know of. i've asked a few times now for real info on issues it's caused - real datapoints. but unless there is another viable and sane way of doing these things - they stay. doing some minor re-labelling is doable. maybe moving a menu item here and there, but now we're talking of work that REALLY doesn't need to be done - there are much more important things to do. :) In the mood of refactoring the menus... if we merge Enlightenment + Settings (maybe call it Enlightenment?), we can remove the Desktop from settings includes stuff unrelated to e at all - see the system and preferences tabs that pull in standard settings tools. main menu as it's not as useful (menu to change desktop is not that common, add/configure shelves and gadgets are more like configuration that you do once a year, show/hide windows can go under Windows main menu entry). so its in a submenu... that's why its in a submenu. its a single entry in the main menu for general desktop controls. if it was inside the main menu - i'd totally agree. please read up about the latest windows 8 criticisms. you're going the exact same direction. you're on a head-long run into trying to remove as much as you can, and in the process you hurt discoverability (and usability) and the people who don't know the key bindings etc. etc. etc. - everything even vaguely useful or used even a few times SHOULD be in a menu - even if it's not used much. in fact we currently have too FEW things in menus. we've removed way too much. people need to be able to find the thing they want without knowing magic gestures, invisible click regions, or obscure keybindings etc. - the main menu is just that. it's a central point of control that is very fast to find (start gadget or click anywhere on the desktop - probably one of the first things a person does when presented with a new blank wm/screen). this menu should provide a easy starting point for a user to discover more and access the things they need or want. preferably nothing should be more than 2 or 3 clicks/jumps away (but reality is that we have so many options, features etc. that we just can't sensibly manage that without a menu-from-hell). i fully support the streamlining and improving of menus. agreed, but removing stuff is something that should be done only as a very last resort. re-organizing - sure, but at this stage i sure don't want to spend the time re-organizing the main menu. modules DEPEND on existing hook points to insert items - re-orgs affect all of those. As for Windows i dislike it and shouldn't be that useful... but the cleanup windows and the action to recover lost windows are indeed useful... but likely the DM should avoid losing the windows instead of add them to a menu? Anyway, this one i see more reasoning to keep. it happens that apps ask to place their windows off the screen - and e honors that. in the case of things like guake they legitimately want a window off the screen so they can slide it in (yes - i know. this is a hack, and should be part of the wm and quickaccess, but apps will persist in doing these things themselves). if you ignore such requests you then break such apps, so reality is... in order to not break some apps, windows can become lost - when apps try remember their position, and you changed resolution/monitors since (x11amp used to love doing this), and you had it bottom-right, and now it asks for a position off the screen.. and you can't get to the window. that menu item exists because of real world problems and we can try as we might - we either break app a or break app b. the menu is the solution to when things break. if we could actually modify the apps to ensure none of them do stupid things like this - we'd have a good solution... but we can't :) also fyi - the windows menu is there because most wm's in x11 have had such a thing, and i highly suggest we don't
[E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
Does the enlightenment menu still make sense? IMO actions on this menu could either be absorbed by other menus or removed altogether: - About: remove (outdated/useless info?) - Theme: remove (btw, it opens a window saying I'm using BW theme instead of dark) - Restart: move to System menu? - Exit: already done by System Logout Thoughts? Lucas De Marchi -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
About : is not at all useless unless outdated. Theme: naturally since i think it shows the current theme's about page, and there has not been one created for dark thus the old one from bw is used. Restart: could confuse people if put in System Exit: ok this one might really be useless after all :P On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi wrote: Does the enlightenment menu still make sense? IMO actions on this menu could either be absorbed by other menus or removed altogether: - About: remove (outdated/useless info?) - Theme: remove (btw, it opens a window saying I'm using BW theme instead of dark) - Restart: move to System menu? - Exit: already done by System Logout Thoughts? Lucas De Marchi -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- Regards, Alex-P. Natsios (a.k.a Drakevr) -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:46:04 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi said: Does the enlightenment menu still make sense? IMO actions on this menu could either be absorbed by other menus or removed altogether: - About: remove (outdated/useless info?) about is 100% up to date. it shows the current version, authors and licensing info. the unstable message will go once e is released. - Theme: remove (btw, it opens a window saying I'm using BW theme instead of dark) this is the place themers can advertise... it should stay. and yes - i know it doesnt talk about the new theme - it's not updated yet. - Restart: move to System menu? restart system or e? - Exit: already done by System Logout umm no. exit is different. exit just exits e. logout tries to close all running windows then exits. exit is immediate. logout will wait and show a popup etc. Thoughts? Lucas De Marchi -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:46:04 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi said: Does the enlightenment menu still make sense? IMO actions on this menu could either be absorbed by other menus or removed altogether: - About: remove (outdated/useless info?) about is 100% up to date. it shows the current version, authors and licensing info. the unstable message will go once e is released. My question is: why is this any useful to the user? We could hide it a bit more in the menus or anywhere else, not standing in the first sublevel menu as if the user had an urgent need to know this info I myself never used it. - Theme: remove (btw, it opens a window saying I'm using BW theme instead of dark) this is the place themers can advertise... it should stay. and yes - i know it doesnt talk about the new theme - it's not updated yet. Why? My first guess when I look at it is to change the current theme, not to open a window talking about the current theme. - Restart: move to System menu? restart system or e? reaname it to Restart E or remove, letting things like this to be ctrl+alt+end - Exit: already done by System Logout umm no. exit is different. exit just exits e. logout tries to close all running windows then exits. exit is immediate. logout will wait and show a popup etc. And... what do we need this for? Lucas De Marchi -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
Lucas De Marchi, il 19/11/2012 15:35, ha scritto: this is the place themers can advertise... it should stay. and yes - i know it doesnt talk about the new theme - it's not updated yet. Why? My first guess when I look at it is to change the current theme, not to open a window talking about the current theme. then it would be enough to rename it about theme, as I believe it is (or was) in e16. and about should be renamed about e, to make it clearer... -- Massimo Maiurana GPG keyID #7044D601 La fede e' credere in cio' che sai non essere vero [Mark Twain] signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
I believe a better fit is to merge both about in one. The theme always define the layout, then it could define its own stuff together with About e contents (more like license and list of authors). On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Massimo Maiurana maiur...@gmail.comwrote: Lucas De Marchi, il 19/11/2012 15:35, ha scritto: this is the place themers can advertise... it should stay. and yes - i know it doesnt talk about the new theme - it's not updated yet. Why? My first guess when I look at it is to change the current theme, not to open a window talking about the current theme. then it would be enough to rename it about theme, as I believe it is (or was) in e16. and about should be renamed about e, to make it clearer... -- Massimo Maiurana GPG keyID #7044D601 La fede e' credere in cio' che sai non essere vero [Mark Twain] -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri http://profusion.mobi embedded systems -- MSN: barbi...@gmail.com Skype: gsbarbieri Mobile: +55 (19) 9225-2202 -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:35:18 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi said: On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:46:04 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi said: Does the enlightenment menu still make sense? IMO actions on this menu could either be absorbed by other menus or removed altogether: - About: remove (outdated/useless info?) about is 100% up to date. it shows the current version, authors and licensing info. the unstable message will go once e is released. My question is: why is this any useful to the user? We could hide it a bit more in the menus or anywhere else, not standing in the first sublevel menu as if the user had an urgent need to know this info I myself never used it. - Theme: remove (btw, it opens a window saying I'm using BW theme instead of dark) this is the place themers can advertise... it should stay. and yes - i know it doesnt talk about the new theme - it's not updated yet. Why? My first guess when I look at it is to change the current theme, not to open a window talking about the current theme. actually thats a great idea... theme about should have a button there for changing theme - a signal to bring up the theme selector. good idea. :) - Restart: move to System menu? restart system or e? reaname it to Restart E or remove, letting things like this to be ctrl+alt +end still not sure it belongs in system as its not affecting your system as a whole which is what the other stuff in system are... and restart e will make people go e? - those not familiar with enlightenment may not be familiar with the shortening to a single letter... and if we make it restart enlightenment the button is going to be massive because we aren't doing linebreaks in the button text... - Exit: already done by System Logout umm no. exit is different. exit just exits e. logout tries to close all running windows then exits. exit is immediate. logout will wait and show a popup etc. And... what do we need this for? if you want e to behave like every other wm has in existence on exit. you may not use e as your session manager and want to exit e to have another wm start after it. all in all - i've never heard any complaints about the e menu until today - over the years. you're the first at least that i hear saying that its confusing/bad... so until there is more evidence, i'd say keep it. Lucas De Marchi -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] E17 - enlightenment menu
On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:35:18 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi said: i just tried adding about enlightenment and restart enlightenment, exit enlightenment and it's horrible text duplication - it looks awful and repetitive. it's already under the enlightenment parent item - thus the topic already is enlightenment... there's context. the on ly thing that makes sense to change is Theme - About Theme On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:46:04 -0200 Lucas De Marchi lucas.demar...@profusion.mobi said: Does the enlightenment menu still make sense? IMO actions on this menu could either be absorbed by other menus or removed altogether: - About: remove (outdated/useless info?) about is 100% up to date. it shows the current version, authors and licensing info. the unstable message will go once e is released. My question is: why is this any useful to the user? We could hide it a bit more in the menus or anywhere else, not standing in the first sublevel menu as if the user had an urgent need to know this info I myself never used it. - Theme: remove (btw, it opens a window saying I'm using BW theme instead of dark) this is the place themers can advertise... it should stay. and yes - i know it doesnt talk about the new theme - it's not updated yet. Why? My first guess when I look at it is to change the current theme, not to open a window talking about the current theme. - Restart: move to System menu? restart system or e? reaname it to Restart E or remove, letting things like this to be ctrl+alt +end - Exit: already done by System Logout umm no. exit is different. exit just exits e. logout tries to close all running windows then exits. exit is immediate. logout will wait and show a popup etc. And... what do we need this for? Lucas De Marchi -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
