Re: [e-users] ACPI Settings Changed to Buttons?

[The Rasterman]

On Thu, 12 May 2011 14:47:39 -0300 Wido  said:

you've got it the wrong way around. acpi allows us to get EVENTS when these
hardware buttons/switches etc. are activated. ie WHEN the fan goes on and off,
WHEN the wifi switch is toggled, WHEN the lid is closed and opened. we can't
CONTROL them, we can just listen and as a RESULT of one of these physical
interactions we can, in software "do something". that is actually the point -
to move these all to software controls so it can do more intelligent things.

> I was thinking tonigh about this topic, and here are a couple thought I
> would like to share
> 
> E is almost completelly focused to GUI and thanks to edje (if I remember
> well), the EFL stuff can receive mouse events
> 
> Based on this, why don't we add 'graphical' things that control/show ACPI
> events?
> Examples:
> * You want to manually start the fan? click on the fan icon (one that looks
> static) and it will start spinning (or look like a spinning fan, to save
> some resources)
> 
> * WIFI kill switch? we can draw a swtich (like the one in elementary
> toolkit) or an antenna with 'waves' (or something cool enough) if the
> antenna is on
> 
> What I mean is, moving from an 'all buttons' or 'all swithces' to an ACPI
> graphical panel control.
> 
> I know that current EFL allow this kind of stuff. From what Raster said
> before, E' core also allows this. All it would take is time (duh!)
> 
> 2011/5/12 Michael Jennings 
> 
> > On Thursday, 12 May 2011, at 09:03:16 (+0900),
> > Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> >
> > > grandma :) could call it "hardware buttons". frankly.. i think that acpi
> > is
> > > abused/misused in so many ways by hw vendors. if its a button like a
> > key.. it
> > > should be a key. always. wired up to the kbd controller with a keycode.
> > there
> > > should be another CLASS of switch that is on/off - like lid open state,
> > "flight
> > > mode wifi switch" on some laptops is a sliding on/off switch that
> > physically
> > > retains its state (its not a soft-toggle). imho even the power and reset
> > > buttons should be keys (just with a bonus hold power for 8secs+ and
> > machine
> > > hard powers down feature).
> >
> > How about "Hardware Controls?"  Just calling it "Buttons" is even
> > worse than "ACPI," not because Grandma won't know what it means, but
> > rather because Grandma won't know to which meaning of "Buttons" it
> > refers.  It's too broad/general.  Mouse buttons?  Toolbar buttons?
> > Menubar buttons?  Whatever interpretation comes to Grandma's mind
> > first, it's unlikely to be "power buttons, Fn+Function keys, and lid
> > closures." :-)
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > --
> > Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX)  http://www.kainx.org/  
> > Linux Server/Cluster Admin, LBL.gov   Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org)
> > ---
> >  "That's who I am.  I'm a positive person."  "No, *I'm* a positive
> >  person.  *You* are like Santa Claus on Prozac...at Disneyland...
> >  getting laid!"-- Alec Baldwin and Lisa Kudrow, "Friends"
> >
> >
> > --
> > Achieve unprecedented app performance and reliability
> > What every C/C++ and Fortran developer should know.
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> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Wido
> --
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Re: [e-users] ACPI Settings Changed to Buttons?

[The Rasterman]

On Thu, 12 May 2011 02:47:36 -0700 Michael Jennings  said:

> On Thursday, 12 May 2011, at 09:03:16 (+0900),
> Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> 
> > grandma :) could call it "hardware buttons". frankly.. i think that acpi is
> > abused/misused in so many ways by hw vendors. if its a button like a key..
> > it should be a key. always. wired up to the kbd controller with a keycode.
> > there should be another CLASS of switch that is on/off - like lid open
> > state, "flight mode wifi switch" on some laptops is a sliding on/off switch
> > that physically retains its state (its not a soft-toggle). imho even the
> > power and reset buttons should be keys (just with a bonus hold power for
> > 8secs+ and machine hard powers down feature).
> 
> How about "Hardware Controls?"  Just calling it "Buttons" is even

thats probably good. i changed it to hardware switches.

> worse than "ACPI," not because Grandma won't know what it means, but

i wouldnt say worse - but it is closer to its common use. better than acpi
which means nothnig to anyone who is not a ultra-nerd.

> rather because Grandma won't know to which meaning of "Buttons" it
> refers.  It's too broad/general.  Mouse buttons?  Toolbar buttons?
> Menubar buttons?  Whatever interpretation comes to Grandma's mind
> first, it's unlikely to be "power buttons, Fn+Function keys, and lid
> closures." :-)
> 
> Michael
> 
> -- 
> Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX)  http://www.kainx.org/  
> Linux Server/Cluster Admin, LBL.gov   Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org)
> ---
>  "That's who I am.  I'm a positive person."  "No, *I'm* a positive
>   person.  *You* are like Santa Claus on Prozac...at Disneyland...
>   getting laid!"-- Alec Baldwin and Lisa Kudrow, "Friends"
> 
> --
> Achieve unprecedented app performance and reliability
> What every C/C++ and Fortran developer should know.
> Learn how Intel has extended the reach of its next-generation tools
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Re: [e-users] ACPI Settings Changed to Buttons?

[Wido]

I was thinking tonigh about this topic, and here are a couple thought I
would like to share

E is almost completelly focused to GUI and thanks to edje (if I remember
well), the EFL stuff can receive mouse events

Based on this, why don't we add 'graphical' things that control/show ACPI
events?
Examples:
* You want to manually start the fan? click on the fan icon (one that looks
static) and it will start spinning (or look like a spinning fan, to save
some resources)

* WIFI kill switch? we can draw a swtich (like the one in elementary
toolkit) or an antenna with 'waves' (or something cool enough) if the
antenna is on

What I mean is, moving from an 'all buttons' or 'all swithces' to an ACPI
graphical panel control.

I know that current EFL allow this kind of stuff. From what Raster said
before, E' core also allows this. All it would take is time (duh!)

2011/5/12 Michael Jennings 

> On Thursday, 12 May 2011, at 09:03:16 (+0900),
> Carsten Haitzler wrote:
>
> > grandma :) could call it "hardware buttons". frankly.. i think that acpi
> is
> > abused/misused in so many ways by hw vendors. if its a button like a
> key.. it
> > should be a key. always. wired up to the kbd controller with a keycode.
> there
> > should be another CLASS of switch that is on/off - like lid open state,
> "flight
> > mode wifi switch" on some laptops is a sliding on/off switch that
> physically
> > retains its state (its not a soft-toggle). imho even the power and reset
> > buttons should be keys (just with a bonus hold power for 8secs+ and
> machine
> > hard powers down feature).
>
> How about "Hardware Controls?"  Just calling it "Buttons" is even
> worse than "ACPI," not because Grandma won't know what it means, but
> rather because Grandma won't know to which meaning of "Buttons" it
> refers.  It's too broad/general.  Mouse buttons?  Toolbar buttons?
> Menubar buttons?  Whatever interpretation comes to Grandma's mind
> first, it's unlikely to be "power buttons, Fn+Function keys, and lid
> closures." :-)
>
> Michael
>
> --
> Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX)  http://www.kainx.org/  
> Linux Server/Cluster Admin, LBL.gov   Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org)
> ---
>  "That's who I am.  I'm a positive person."  "No, *I'm* a positive
>  person.  *You* are like Santa Claus on Prozac...at Disneyland...
>  getting laid!"-- Alec Baldwin and Lisa Kudrow, "Friends"
>
>
> --
> Achieve unprecedented app performance and reliability
> What every C/C++ and Fortran developer should know.
> Learn how Intel has extended the reach of its next-generation tools
> to help boost performance applications - inlcuding clusters.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
>



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Re: [e-users] ACPI Settings Changed to Buttons?

[Michael Jennings]

On Thursday, 12 May 2011, at 09:03:16 (+0900),
Carsten Haitzler wrote:

> grandma :) could call it "hardware buttons". frankly.. i think that acpi is
> abused/misused in so many ways by hw vendors. if its a button like a key.. it
> should be a key. always. wired up to the kbd controller with a keycode. there
> should be another CLASS of switch that is on/off - like lid open state, 
> "flight
> mode wifi switch" on some laptops is a sliding on/off switch that physically
> retains its state (its not a soft-toggle). imho even the power and reset
> buttons should be keys (just with a bonus hold power for 8secs+ and machine
> hard powers down feature).

How about "Hardware Controls?"  Just calling it "Buttons" is even
worse than "ACPI," not because Grandma won't know what it means, but
rather because Grandma won't know to which meaning of "Buttons" it
refers.  It's too broad/general.  Mouse buttons?  Toolbar buttons?
Menubar buttons?  Whatever interpretation comes to Grandma's mind
first, it's unlikely to be "power buttons, Fn+Function keys, and lid
closures." :-)

Michael

-- 
Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX)  http://www.kainx.org/  
Linux Server/Cluster Admin, LBL.gov   Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org)
---
 "That's who I am.  I'm a positive person."  "No, *I'm* a positive
  person.  *You* are like Santa Claus on Prozac...at Disneyland...
  getting laid!"-- Alec Baldwin and Lisa Kudrow, "Friends"

--
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Re: [e-users] ACPI Settings Changed to Buttons?

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 11 May 2011 11:27:37 -0500 Jeff Hoogland  said:

grandma :) could call it "hardware buttons". frankly.. i think that acpi is
abused/misused in so many ways by hw vendors. if its a button like a key.. it
should be a key. always. wired up to the kbd controller with a keycode. there
should be another CLASS of switch that is on/off - like lid open state, "flight
mode wifi switch" on some laptops is a sliding on/off switch that physically
retains its state (its not a soft-toggle). imho even the power and reset
buttons should be keys (just with a bonus hold power for 8secs+ and machine
hard powers down feature).

but reality is... the hw makers don't do this.

the question i have been mulling is.. if e should have a "fake a key" mechanism
that can take known acpi buttons and fake an x key for them, and then FAKE the
above switch thing and present them as switches separately. then power, reset,
zoom, blah blah can just be regular key bindings. there is a possible issue
that u may have both an acpi "power" button and a "power button" on your
keyboard. i think in the end this may be something for e18 to do. we have the
nuts and bolts to support acpi etc. decently. we just don't have the right way
to expose it to the user.

> That all makes sense. Was just curious about the change.
> 
> On Wed May 11 2011 11:01:26 AM CDT, Carsten Haitzler 
> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 11 May 2011 06:23:28 -0700 Michael Jennings  said:
> > 
> > > On Wednesday, 11 May 2011, at 08:16:01 (-0500),
> > > Jeff Hoogland wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Touche - but I also think "closing lid" is hardly a "Button" :P
> > > 
> > > "Power Management," "Energy Conservation," or even "Green Computing"
> > > would be more appropriate and clear.
> > 
> > since this includes keys that switch video (between vga and dvi), start a
> > sleep, power off, reset, tell you a fan is on or not, something is
> > overheating, lid has closed, ac adapter is plugged or unplugged, change
> > brightness, change zoom level in and out, are an assist button, or
> > vendor name button, maye mute/unmute, change volume,  or god knows
> > how much more... even the above is wrong. the MAJORITY of use is as
> > buttons/keys/switches.
> > 
> > -- 
> > - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --
> > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)       ras...@rasterman.com
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Achieve unprecedented app performance and reliability
> > What every C/C++ and Fortran developer should know.
> > Learn how Intel has extended the reach of its next-generation tools
> > to help boost performance applications - inlcuding clusters.
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
> 


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Re: [e-users] ACPI Settings Changed to Buttons?

[Jeff Hoogland]

That all makes sense. Was just curious about the change.

On Wed May 11 2011 11:01:26 AM CDT, Carsten Haitzler  
wrote:

> On Wed, 11 May 2011 06:23:28 -0700 Michael Jennings  said:
> 
> > On Wednesday, 11 May 2011, at 08:16:01 (-0500),
> > Jeff Hoogland wrote:
> > 
> > > Touche - but I also think "closing lid" is hardly a "Button" :P
> > 
> > "Power Management," "Energy Conservation," or even "Green Computing"
> > would be more appropriate and clear.
> 
> since this includes keys that switch video (between vga and dvi), start a
> sleep, power off, reset, tell you a fan is on or not, something is
> overheating, lid has closed, ac adapter is plugged or unplugged, change
> brightness, change zoom level in and out, are an assist button, or
> vendor name button, maye mute/unmute, change volume,  or god knows
> how much more... even the above is wrong. the MAJORITY of use is as
> buttons/keys/switches.
> 
> -- 
> - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --
> The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)       ras...@rasterman.com
> 
> 
> --
> Achieve unprecedented app performance and reliability
> What every C/C++ and Fortran developer should know.
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Re: [e-users] ACPI Settings Changed to Buttons?

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 11 May 2011 08:16:01 -0500 Jeff Hoogland  said:

sure, but power button, reset button, sleep button and so-on are. more buttons
that lids. there isn't a good single word for it all, but acpi is the most
obscure. :)

> Touche - but I also think "closing lid" is hardly a "Button" :P
> 
> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 5:25 AM, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 9 May 2011 18:57:54 -0500 Jeff Hoogland 
> > said:
> >
> > does your brandmother know what the hell acpi is? :)
> >
> > > Why was the ACPI Settings changed to Buttons? Seems to make less sense to
> > me
> > > personally. Hoping someone can explain the logic behind it :)
> > >
> > > --
> > > ~Jeff Hoogland 
> > > Thoughts on Technology , Tech Blog
> > > Bodhi Linux , Enlightenment for your Desktop
> > >
> > --
> > > Achieve unprecedented app performance and reliability
> > > What every C/C++ and Fortran developer should know.
> > > Learn how Intel has extended the reach of its next-generation tools
> > > to help boost performance applications - inlcuding clusters.
> > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay
> > > ___
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> > > enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --
> > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> ~Jeff Hoogland 
> Thoughts on Technology , Tech Blog
> Bodhi Linux , Enlightenment for your Desktop


-- 
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Re: [e-users] ACPI Settings Changed to Buttons?

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 11 May 2011 06:23:28 -0700 Michael Jennings  said:

> On Wednesday, 11 May 2011, at 08:16:01 (-0500),
> Jeff Hoogland wrote:
> 
> > Touche - but I also think "closing lid" is hardly a "Button" :P
> 
> "Power Management," "Energy Conservation," or even "Green Computing"
> would be more appropriate and clear.

since this includes keys that switch video (between vga and dvi), start a
sleep, power off, reset, tell you a fan is on or not, something is overheating,
lid has closed, ac adapter is plugged or unplugged, change brightness, change
zoom level in and out, are an assist button, or vendor name button, maye
mute/unmute, change volume,  or god knows how much more... even the above
is wrong. the MAJORITY of use is as buttons/keys/switches.

-- 
- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com


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Re: [e-users] ACPI Settings Changed to Buttons?

[Michael Jennings]

On Wednesday, 11 May 2011, at 08:16:01 (-0500),
Jeff Hoogland wrote:

> Touche - but I also think "closing lid" is hardly a "Button" :P

"Power Management," "Energy Conservation," or even "Green Computing"
would be more appropriate and clear.

Michael

-- 
Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX)  http://www.kainx.org/  
Linux Server/Cluster Admin, LBL.gov   Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org)
---
 "You did not tell the truth, and so you will have to pay the
  consequences."-- Bob Barker, "Truth or Consequences"

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Re: [e-users] ACPI Settings Changed to Buttons?

[Jeff Hoogland]

Touche - but I also think "closing lid" is hardly a "Button" :P

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 5:25 AM, Carsten Haitzler wrote:

> On Mon, 9 May 2011 18:57:54 -0500 Jeff Hoogland 
> said:
>
> does your brandmother know what the hell acpi is? :)
>
> > Why was the ACPI Settings changed to Buttons? Seems to make less sense to
> me
> > personally. Hoping someone can explain the logic behind it :)
> >
> > --
> > ~Jeff Hoogland 
> > Thoughts on Technology , Tech Blog
> > Bodhi Linux , Enlightenment for your Desktop
> >
> --
> > Achieve unprecedented app performance and reliability
> > What every C/C++ and Fortran developer should know.
> > Learn how Intel has extended the reach of its next-generation tools
> > to help boost performance applications - inlcuding clusters.
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay
> > ___
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> > enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
> >
>
>
> --
> - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --
> The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com
>
>


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Re: [e-users] ACPI Settings Changed to Buttons?

[The Rasterman]

On Mon, 9 May 2011 18:57:54 -0500 Jeff Hoogland  said:

does your brandmother know what the hell acpi is? :)

> Why was the ACPI Settings changed to Buttons? Seems to make less sense to me
> personally. Hoping someone can explain the logic behind it :)
> 
> -- 
> ~Jeff Hoogland 
> Thoughts on Technology , Tech Blog
> Bodhi Linux , Enlightenment for your Desktop
> --
> Achieve unprecedented app performance and reliability
> What every C/C++ and Fortran developer should know.
> Learn how Intel has extended the reach of its next-generation tools
> to help boost performance applications - inlcuding clusters.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay
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[e-users] ACPI Settings Changed to Buttons?

[Jeff Hoogland]

Why was the ACPI Settings changed to Buttons? Seems to make less sense to me
personally. Hoping someone can explain the logic behind it :)

-- 
~Jeff Hoogland 
Thoughts on Technology , Tech Blog
Bodhi Linux , Enlightenment for your Desktop
--
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What every C/C++ and Fortran developer should know.
Learn how Intel has extended the reach of its next-generation tools
to help boost performance applications - inlcuding clusters.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay
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