Re: earmarks and space pork
From the Orlando Sentinel (http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/politics/4171702.htm ): Lawmakers intent on bringing home the bacon increasingly are squandering NASA's scarce resources on pet projects that are often, at best, only marginally related to space exploration and research. Of course, the main reason NASA's resources are so scarce is that its OWN pet project is only marginally related to space exploration and research. One can hardly expect an Orlando newspaper to point that out, however. == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: NASA MOVES FORWARD ON HUMAN MISSIONS TO MOON, MARS AND ASTEROIDS
In a message dated 9/28/2002 5:06:05 PM Alaskan Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Robert, your enthusiasm is astounding. Where are the off-the-shelf microplate sapphire suits? Sorry, not here yet. We can't even assemble sapphire at the molecular level yet. But we do have a design for an internalized sapphire wet-suit: "Vasculoid: A Personal Nanomedical Appliance to Replace Human Blood" http://www.jetpress.org/volume11/vasculoid.html I looked up the website. First, to counter those who might suggest that a vasculoid, or any other of Robert Bradbury's concepts, do not apply to a discussion of Europa, I must say: 1) this website draws its strength from breadth of ideas, not constriction, and 2) if a vasculoid COULD be developed, it would certainly find high utility in space applications. A vasculoid system is apparently a concept for the creation of billions of nanosized platelets, to cover the internal surfaces of every blood vessel in the human body, and increase the efficiency of blood, by replacing it with nanomachine transfer devices. Number one problem: it doesn't exist yet. The paper itself states that it is an entirely theoretical system -- NOT a working design. Problem number two: there is no one that I know who wants to be the first test subject. Animals might be 'recruited' to test it out, but that would require years and years of testing. In the end, you're going to have to have a real person test this thing, to give a true idea of whether it really improves on what we've already evolved over 300 billion years of evolution. Problem number three: presuming that a vasculoid system was created, and that you were able to successfully transfer it to a person... presuming it works entirely as designed... You STILL have the 'unforeseen circumstances' issue. That is, for all we know,the vasculoids could detach themselves from the walls of blood vessels, and form clots in the brain, or human tissues might develop an adverse reaction to sapphire, or an outside electrical charge could find that sapphire vasculoids make a surprisingly good conductor, or, or, or... I consider an externalized version of that to be a relatively minor derivative. A combination of these may also be necessary to solve the pressure problems one finds at great depths in Europa's oceans (I haven't seen any figures on this -- it would be interesting to compare them with diving in Earth's oceans). We discussed pressures at some length in prior rounds. Some feel that the pressure would be significantly higher than Earthside pressures, or no greater than one might find in the Marianna Trench, for instance. Others feel that the very light Europan gravity might play a factor in decreasing pressures. I don't see the pressure factor as a true problem. For one thing, we have no presence on Europa at all, so planning for diving expeditions there seems a moot point. In a best case scenario, we may have a tinker-toy robot on Europa by 2020 or so. You're planning for the year 2200, Robert, not 2003 or 2010. We need to go through the necessary middle steps, before we can start planning on how we're going to go on SCUBA dives there. Where can I pick up a six-pack of nanotech machines? Can't yet, unless you want to find a health food store that sells unpasturized yoghurt. But people are working on it. The U.S. political establishment is very aware that they are being outspent in this area around the world (Europe, the Asian tigers, China, etc.) so it seems unlikely that support for research in these areas will decrease in the future. Why is it that so many scientists and theoreticians demand that the government support their activities, when it seems that 1) we already have off-the-shelf technology that can be assembled to get the job done, eg, Clement's plan to use small commercial rockets to drop a probe on Toutatis, etc, and 2) private industry can provide plenty of support for research, IF there's money in it (and if there is not a profit in it, ie, incentive, then why would you want to develop it in the first place? The 'wonders of science' routine will only take you so far). Personally, I'm not that concerned that Singapore is going to get to Mars first. Nor am I really all that concerned about China, yet. Much of China is still working with water buffaloes in agriculture. As soon as they finish the Yangtze Dam, they may find that it is like the Aswan Dam: a great idea, at least for the first 20 years. After that, acccumulated deficits to the project may cause some to question the original project, by which time it will be too late. China is going to spend the next 30 years playing catch-up with the West. They're still working out the messy details of providing consumer goods to 1.5 billion people, at an equitable enough distribution rate to keep the lid on. Meanwhile, of course, they'll have to figure out what to do with the pollution produced by a billion cars, a billion refridgerators, and the instability created
Re: NASA MOVES FORWARD ON HUMAN MISSIONS TO MOON, MARS AND ASTEROIDS
On Sun, 29 Sep 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED], commenting on my comments wrote: A vasculoid system is apparently a concept for the creation of billions of nanosized platelets, to cover the internal surfaces of every blood vessel in the human body, and increase the efficiency of blood, by replacing it with nanomachine transfer devices. Essentially correct. In practice about a dozen different kinds of nanorobots are required to accomplish everything the current circulatory system does. Number one problem: it doesn't exist yet. The paper itself states that it is an entirely theoretical system -- NOT a working design. Problem number two: there is no one that I know who wants to be the first test subject. Agreed (that it doesn't exist). It is a scaling study -- presumably of the same kind that NASA carried out in the late '50's and early '60's with respect to how big a rocket do we really need to send men too the moon?. I believe that there were rockets on the drawing boards that were significantly larger than the Saturn V because they didn't know precisely what strategy would be used to deliver and return people from the lunar surface. With respect to being the first test subject -- as one grows older the risk of stroke increases significantly. I, and I suspect others, would be happy to sign up for vasculoid replacement trials as our stroke risks approached being the primary cause of death (individuals with vasculoid systems installed cannot die from strokes, heart attacks, cancer and a number of other currently fatal conditions). In the end, you're going to have to have a real person test this thing, to give a true idea of whether it really improves on what we've already evolved over 300 billion years of evolution. Due to the declining force of natural selection during the average individuals lifetime the net result of 300 billion years of evolution is -- *you are a dead person*. The closer you get to hitting the wall, the more sense it makes to take what might be considered extreme risks to avoid the wall. Problem number three: presuming that a vasculoid system was created, [snip] You STILL have the 'unforeseen circumstances' issue. Yes. And Robert Freitas is generally quite conservative with respect to anticipating such circumstances and proposing solutions. That is, for all we know,the vasculoids could detach themselves from the walls of blood vessels, and form clots in the brain, or human tissues Nanomedicine Volume IIA has hundred of pages devoted to the problem of biocompatibility of nanorobots. Nanorobots do not form clots and should be able to suppress clot forming tendencies of natural blood-borne proteins where necessary. The vasculoid system is much more precise than our natural clot forming system since it is capable of transporting clot-forming cells and proteins to only those locations where it is reasonable that clots should be formed (e.g. surface blood vessels -- not the heart or the brain). might develop an adverse reaction to sapphire, or an outside electrical charge could find that sapphire vasculoids make a surprisingly good conductor, or, or, or... Sapphire (or diamondoid) is likely to be very biocompatible -- or can be engineered to be so. See Nanomedicine VIIA when it is published. Sapphire (and most forms of diamondoid) are non-conductors. I don't see the pressure factor as a true problem. For one thing, we have no presence on Europa at all, so planning for diving expeditions there seems a moot point. I was responding to misconceptions with respect to (a) we will never get to Europa in our lifetime and (b) it might be difficult to SCUBA on Europa. In a best case scenario, we may have a tinker-toy robot on Europa by 2020 or so. You're planning for the year 2200, Robert, not 2003 or 2010. We need to go through the necessary middle steps, before we can start planning on how we're going to go on SCUBA dives there. I beg to differ. Departmental class computers reach human computational capacity circa 2010. After that all bets are off because you have no way of knowing the extent to which AI will be applied to the evolution of AIs. You might be right. But I've worked through the wet path to robust molecular nanotechnology -- and if we can get that path hooked to Moore's Law (this requires semi-automated enzyme design) then by 2020 we will see many of the things one might now only expect by 2200. Why is it that so many scientists and theoreticians demand that the government support their activities, when it seems that 1) we already have off-the-shelf technology that can be assembled to get the job done, eg, Clement's plan to use small commercial rockets to drop a probe on Toutatis, etc, and I don't demand that the government support my activities. I've spent the last year trying to interest private investors in them. It is a *very* tough row to hoe when private investors cannot grasp the big picture. In contrast, governments
2002 Lowell Lectures - Is Anybody Out There?
http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/ep/lowell02.html IS ANYBODY OUT THERE?Artist's conception of the Milky Way Galaxy. (David Aguilar, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics) Have you ever gazed into the night sky and wondered about life beyond the stars? [Beyond the stars? Who wrote that bit?] You are in good company. Today's astronomers are searching for answers to these perplexing questions: Are we alone in the universe? Do other worlds like Earth exist? Is there life on other planets and, if so, how do we find it? In this lecture series, explore the latest views about our place in the cosmos with astronomy's top minds. What you discover may surprise you.2002 Lowell Lecture Schedule October 9 Life on our Home Turf: Scanning the Solar SystemUrsula B. Marvin, senior geologist emeritus, Center for Astrophysics Is the Earth the only planet with life in our solar system? Mars once had abundant liquid water. Jupiter's moon Europa has an ocean under its icy surface. Saturn's moon Titan has a nitrogen atmosphere and abundant organic matter. Life has been found on Earth in the ocean depths near boiling hot vents, in the frigid wastes of Antarctica, and deep underground where sunlight is a distant memory. Is life strong enough to exist elsewhere in our solar system?October 16 The Search for New EarthsWesley A. Traub, associate of Harvard College Observatory, Center for Astrophysics Less than a decade ago, the only planets known to exist were the nine of our solar system. Now, astronomers have found more than 100 worlds around other MilkyWay stars. Most are Jupiter-sized, but Earth-sized orbs may be hiding nearby. Come learn how scientists succeeded in their quest to find these planets and what they have seen so far-and how we will look for life on these new worlds.October 23 Our Special Planet: A Cradle for LifePeter D. Ward, geologist and paleontologist, University of Washington Once life appears, it survives tenaciously. But how did the unique traits of our solar system help life to gain that initial foothold? How important is it to have a Jupiter to divert threatening swarms of comets, a large moon to provide nurturing tides, or a crust of moving plates to recycle the stuff of our world? Perhaps, despite the flood of newly discovered worlds, our planet is more precious than we ever realized. The Lowell Lectures are intended for general audiences and will be given in the Museum of Science's Cahner's Theater, Science Park, Boston, beginning at 7:00 pm. Free lecture tickets are available on a first-come, first-served basis the evening of each program, beginning at 6:00 pm. Parking is available in the Museum garage. Directions to the Museum can be found here. The Museum can also be reached by public transportation (Green Line to Science Park). The annual Lowell Lectures on Astronomy are cosponsored by the Hayden Planetarium of the Museum of Science and the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics with the generous support of the Lowell Institute.
Deinococcus radiodurans - Go ahead, make their day!
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020930.html D. rad Bacteria: Candidate Astronauts Credit: Michael Daly (Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences), DOE Explanation: These bacteria could survive on another planet. In an Earth lab, Deinococcus radiodurans (D. rad) survive extreme levels of radiation, extreme temperatures, dehydration, and exposure to genotoxic chemicals. Amazingly, they even have the ability to repair their own DNA, usually with 48 hours. Known as an extremophile, bacteria such as D. rad are of interest to NASA partly because they might be adaptable to help human astronauts survive on other worlds. A recent map of D. rad's DNA might allow biologists to augment their survival skills with the ability to produce medicine, clean water, and oxygen. Already they have been genetically engineered to help clean up spills of toxic mercury. Likely one of the oldest surviving life forms, D. rad was discovered by accident in the 1950s when scientists investigating food preservation techniques could not easily kill it. Pictured above, Deinococcus radiodurans grow quietly in a dish.
