Re: Tubes on Mars?
Those are *obviously* sandworms, many hundreds, if not thousands of meters in length. My GOD! It's full of SPICE! Hey, if anyone needed an economic incentive to travel to Mars... Jayme Lynn Blaschke _ An Interview with Samuel R. Delany http://www.sfsite.com Jayme Blaschke Scott & White Marketing and Communications (254) 724-4057 =You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Testing the "extant algae on Martian surface" hypothesis
>Am I alone in looking at these images and getting the creepy sensation that >I'm looking at something caused by LIVING processes? Yeah, yeah, I'm going >to be lectured about relying on our senses and not examining all the evidence >and jumping to conclusions and scientific method and waiting until we have >all the data in, yada yada yada. Still, this must be the first time since >Mariner 4 crushed all the speculation about big fields of lichens that we >might perhaps just possibly be looking at photographic evidence not of >microbial life, but BIG life on another planet. Yeah, and the straight lines on Europa look like highways. Look, season changes at the polar regions of Mars have intrigued people for years. 50 years ago the seasonal darkening of the land around the poles was speculated to be some sort of vegetation growing as a result of the melting of the caps in the spring. Now that has been relegated to many of the same possible explanations we're getting for these "trees" or "algae mats." The simple fact of the matter is that we don't know. Claiming life on another world is a very big claim indeed, and if you go off trumpeting these provocative pics as "proof" then you've lost *all* credibility if you're proven wrong. There's a thing known as the scientific process, after all. Scientists follow it (or at least are *supposed* to) for a reason. Following your reasoning, we've *already* had major evidence for not only big life on another planet, but an advanced civilization as well. Or have you forgotten "The Face?" Jayme Lynn Blaschke _ An Interview with Samuel R. Delany http://www.sfsite.com =You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Intelligent stars
>>>I have longed suspected that the the stars were intelligent. After all, they've been around the longest and had the longest time to evolve. Of course, how do you hold coherent thoughts in the equivalent of an atomic bomb? Actually, there's an excellent set of novels by Jack Williamson and Fred Pohl that tackle this very idea. _The Starchild Trilogy_. Stars have lots of convection currents, you know, so it doesn't take that big a jump to extrapolate these form some equivalent of neural "circuitry." Those books also deal with a steady-state universe and other grand concepts. Some of the science may be dated, but it's well-written and grand fun. Jayme Lynn Blaschke "The Dust" available in THE ANT MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES >From Big Engine Press http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm =You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Wanna stop global warming? Just move Earth!
>>> This isn't the first time I've heard "planet moving" suggestions, but good lord, how would something like this be accomplished? I mean, even with a purely hypothetical question, you can't very well strap booster rockets to the sides! >Come on; it's perfectly simple. Just contact Q. He does that kind of thing all the time. "Do be careful with it, 007 -- it's the only one we have!" (Yes, I know, different "Q." But I couldn't resist.) Jayme Blaschke Scott & White Marketing and Communications (254) 724-4057 =You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Wanna stop global warming? Just move Earth!
This isn't the first time I've heard "planet moving" suggestions, but good lord, how would something like this be accomplished? I mean, even with a purely hypothetical question, you can't very well strap booster rockets to the sides! =You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Arthur C. Clarke Stands By His Belief in Life on Mars
Visionary tho he is, I seriously doubt we'll find Babyan trees on Mars. Unless, of course, they're growing in the canal zones... Jayme Blaschke Scott & White Marketing and Communications (254) 724-4057 =You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Ice
>> "Gail & Roberta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - 3/28/01 6:43 PM >>> Oh, well, Byrne, Blaschke, & Co. have convinced me that selling ice to passing starships probably won't work. Rats! I thought I was on to something, but maybe next time. At least I'm keeping some of you entertained! It might work, but you're looking at the wrong market. It's like the microbrew beers -- they weren't satisfied with local success, tried to go nation-wide and went bust. Ice/water mining could be lucrative as a fuel source/natural resource for colonies/bases, but only in the local area. It'd be too expensive to escape Jupiter's gravity well, but set up shop on Ganymede or Callisto (well out of the radiation belts) and you can supply all the fuel anyone needs for jaunting around the Jovian system, air and water for bases and reactors, even refuling for ships heading back to Earth. That'd certainly be more cost effective than chasing after asteroids or meteors, but then Jupiter is a unique situation (although much the same setup could be expected to develop in the Saturn/Uranus/Neptune systems). Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Ice
Except for the fact that you have to contend with Jupiter's enormous gravity well (far more difficult to get out of than Earth's) as well as Europa's gravity (roughly equal to our moon's) not to mention the killer Jovian radiation belts... Sorry, but I forsee comet wranglers putting you out of business before you even get started. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius >>> "Gail & Roberta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - 3/28/01 12:53 AM >>> Here's something to chew on. As you know, I've been intrigued by the prospect of mining ice and water on Europa, but had a lot of trouble figuring out how to make it profitable. What if... Humans need water to live. Travelers beyond our system will need water. Transporting water from Earth all the way "out there" will be expensive, not only in money, but in the energy needed to carry it. Water is critical to survival. Anyone disagree with that? Our knowledge of Europa suggests that it consists of an ice mantle perhaps several kilometers thick, with an ocean of liquid water, yes H2O, underneath. Water is heavy and wiggly. But what about carving out chunks of ice like the Eskimo do to make igloos, boosting it into an orbit, collecting it in great masses, and towing it with sail ships to rendesvous points "out there" as needed? It would be collected for storage by starships or even left frozen to be defrosted as needed. Imagine a starship towing a huge block of water ice and carving off what it needs as it needs, thus obviating the need for huge water storage tanks on board. OK, folks, kick this one around, and Watch the skies! Gail Leatherwood (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Bull or True
Bull. The very fact that it appeared on Fox should've clued in even the most gullible that it was complete and total crap. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: RE: Gadfry!
>>>Years ago, more than i wish think of there was a sf book two stories in one sort of thing. I don't remember the author, I'm sure Bruce and Jayme will. The stories were Waldo and Magic Inc. Waldo was a person in space because of health problems. It was one of the first stories I remember where the idea of being in space was for people who had a hard time on earth. In addition the fact that humans are beginning to think about and develope skills relating to genetic modification I'm sure the topic of genetically altering life forms, even humans for survial in space has been considered. You're probably thinking of the Ace Doubles. Used to publish two short novels in one volume. A lot of good stuff got published (or re-published) in that format. "Waldo" is, of course, the ultra-famous Heinlein story which actually gave us the term "waldo" as applied to artificial limbs. "Magic, Inc." is another popular Heinlein short novel. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: RE: Zero-G Health Impacts
>>>No centrifuge on ISS now, so we can't test to see what minimum gravity is necessary to prevent bone and muscle loss. Wasn't one originally planned and designed for the ISS, but dropped early on because of cost? Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Gadfry!
>>>Robert Bradbury, of nanotechnology applications fame, might suggest somehow using blood circulation nanomachines to do the trick. Well, yeah. Nano is the fairy godmother of all future science. Need to accomplish something bizarre and well nigh impossible with today's tech levels? Nano will do it! I've no doubt that nano systems will one day revolutionize medicine and manufacturing and who knows what else. Greg Egan's "Yeyuka" is a marvelous extrapolation of what can be done with nano-level medicine. But we're still a very, very long way from that being even a remote possibility. Nano may very well be able to replace lost bone mass directly at the cellular level (and possibly even sub-cellular). But by the time that is a reality, I'd expect durgs would've been developed to turn the trick more efficiently and at a fraction of the price. Remember, this is a problem we've yet to tackle head on. What will happen is a breakthrough drug (or more likely, a gradual series of drugs, each an improvement on the last) for treating osteoporosis in the elderly will prove to have tangental benefits for long-duration space travel. So the soulution won't even come from the field of space science... Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Phobos colonization
>>>One more thought: Once in a great while the SF writers propose that the problem is solved by NOT going back to Earth, or any other gravity, for that matter. In short, just stay in the weightless environment. In about ten seconds, one can think of a whole host of consequences, not all of them "bad." Think of the image of the "Star Child" at the conclusion of "2001--A Space Odessy." In such a situation, is the retention of muscle mass really necessary? Lois McMaster Bujold tackled this problem head-on in her book _Falling Free_. Humans destined to live forever in teh weightlessness of space were genetically engineered to do so -- to the point of replacing legs with an extra set of arms. Ultimately, the geneticists only succeeded in creating yet another minority group, with all the problems and prejudices that entails. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Phobos colonization
>>> First, does anybody know if there's a listserv similar to this one, having to do >with colonizing, or at least sending probes to, Phobos? No, I don't know of any. And really, I can't afford to join anymore groups -- the cost to my time going through all the messages I get each day from various lists is enormous! :-) >>>And relatedly -- what are considered the most serious MEDICAL, BIOLOGICAL obstacles >to human colonization of space? Things like the body adjusting to low gravity, >radiation, etc... Radiation is the most immediate threat. Very few places outside of Earth can shield astronauts from deadly cosmic radiation of dangerous solar flare-ups. But we know how to block that. Water-shielded "storm cellars" on spacecraft/space stations, and underground/buried shelters on planets/moons. Gravity is another problem, with bone loss and muscle deterioration, not to mention decreased cardiovascular and immune system deficiency. Presumably this wouldn't be so great on Mars, a body with significant gravity (tho not Earthlike) but on the moon or weightless this would be a serious problem over the long term. There have been some initial studies with astronauts aboard the Shuttle, Mir, the Salyut stations and Skylab, but for the most part they've focused on what the detrimental effects *are* with very little research devoted to counteracting these effects. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: RE: Jovian resource mining
>Science Fiction and the negative energy in space. (Lucent Technologies has >already demonstrated a way to use it.) What if... we learn to extract the >energy on a large scale and it is that energy in space that is causing the >universe of expand. Knowing how humans like to use energy, usually without >regard to consequences.. after millenia of using the energy we notice that >the Universe is no longer expanding and is in fact beginning to collapse.. >could we, in desparation learn to replace the energy we took to prevent a >cataclysmic end..or never fear, with the conservation of matter and energy >in the universe, maybe there will be a rebound and a new big bang... Well, Asimov dealt with consequences of an unlimited, "magic" energy source in his classic novel _The Gods Themselves_. The middle third of the book has some of the best writing Asimov ever attempted, unfortunately, that section and the conflicts set up therein go nowhere and have no bearing on the conclusion of the book. And perhaps siphoning off "expansion energy" (if that's what zero-point energy turns out to be) isn't such a bad thing. Almost every study thus far has concluded that the universe -- even counting the unseen Dark Matter -- has far too little mass to naturally slow the expansion of the universe. I don't know about anyone else, but I much prefer an ocillating universe with a series of big bangs and big crunches to one in which everything expands infinitely and eventually peters out when the last proton dies... Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Jovian resource mining
>>>I'm actually reading a book now which deals with the energy-from-vaccum question in some detail ( though I'm not finished with it yet ). Often referred to as "Zero-point energy." Usually when used, it conveniently takes the place of "magic" in a SFnal setting. Effortless source of energy for writers who want to look smarter than those poor clods stuck using fusion or antimatter energy sources. Buzz Aldrin and John Barnes use it in _Encounter with Tiber_, which is a crummy book with very cool ideas. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: The Europa probe from 2010: The Year We Make Contact
>> Also Syd Mead, the designer in the later film, used a submarine design philosophy >when laying out the Leonov. I remember seeing an interview where he discussed this. A very good approach to take. Excellent verisimilitude. >>What is really telling about how good the designs were is the fact that the >Earthforce >>destroyers on Babylon 5 bear a striking resemblance to the Alexi Leonov. > Imitation >>is the sincerest form of flattery. DOH! So THAT'S why they looked so gosh-darn familiar. I suppose the Earthforce anvil-head bow on those ships is what threw me. But every time I saw them, I kept thinking to myself "Where have I seen these before?" I never, ever made the connection to the Leonov. Silly me. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: The Europa probe from 2010: The Year We Make Contact
Yeah, there were some great designs in that movie. The probe for one. The space suits were much better than in the original. Jupiter looked fantastic. The Leonov itself I found very realisitic -- what a furture manned deep space ship would look and function like, rather than the luxury liner Discovery. Even the Leonov's pods looked like futurized versions of the functional, no-frills LEM, rather than the spit-and-polish contours of the round Discovery pods. 2010 is unfairly dumped on by a lot of people becuase it wasn't 2001. While I'll admit it has some problems, it is a very strong movie in its own right. I really liked the little touches, like having all the shadows in space be pitch black. Very cool. And you've got to be a very cold fish indeed not to get goosebumps during the "look behind you" scene. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Pluto politics
Just as a side note to everything else going on, I fired off emails today to my Senators Kay Bailey Hutchison and Phil Gramm, as well as my rep. Chet Edwards. Hutchison is worse than useless, and makes Gramm look effective by comparison. But even tho they're both Republican and Texan they've already clashed with Dubya on a number of items, and they were never really cosy with our new prez while he was governor, so there's at least hope they'll review the Pluto mess and not vote to kill it just because that's what the President wants. I'm not holding my breath, but there's hope. Chet on the other hand, I have high hopes for. Not a huge space program booster (since his district doesn't include any NASA contractors) nevertheless he's shown an intelligent interest in it previously. And I've written him about some local issues before and gotten prompt response -- twice phone calls from Chet himself. He's definitely a guy who listens to his constituants, so I'm urging him to at least wait and review the proposals presented at the AO's March 19, 2001 deadline before pulling the plug on Pluto. Bush is pulling a typical governor-esque blunder (re: Clinton, Carter) by treading on Congress' toes early on with a variety of topics. Right now, my gut feeling is that Pluto will survive in some form, just out of Congressional spite if nothing else. The Planetary Society campaign to save Pluto last year is still paying dividends, apparently. If you haven't yet, I encourage list members to write their senators and reps. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: RE: Magnetic Chains from Mars
What, if anything, would it signify if microbes found on Mars were based on both L and D amino acid components (obviously not the same species!). Would it indicate both forms originated on Mars, or one on Mars and the other seeded from Earth? Would it mean we have to start looking harder around Earth to see if we've got the other form tucked away in a niche somewhere? Could two such mirror images coexist in the same environment? And if the second kind were found on Earth, does that just muddy the waters even more about seeding? Earth and Mars both seeded each other? This is fun to speculate! Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: RE: Magnetic Chains from Mars
>This research is interesting, for sure, and more promising than the "nanofossil" findings, in my opinion. I find it funny that the members of the scientific community that attacked the nanofossil evidence because the fossils were "too small" actively ignored research done at the University of Texas on terrestrial nanofossils, even when it was pointed out to then that "yes, fossils and bacteria that size *do* exist. Right here. I'll show you. Wait! Where are you going?" Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Magnetic Chains from Mars
>>>This continuing research is pretty darn exciting. Since life is the only known way these magnetic chains can be formed, then it boils down to very strong evidence that Mars had (has?) life. The only questions against the research now seems to be the orgin of the meteorite and if it was contaminated after landing. Some scientific group will come up with an alternate explanation for the chains, just as they've come up with an alternate explanation for every bit of evidence present so far. This I don't doubt. We don't have a smoking gun. All the evidence is circumstantial. However, pile ALL that circumstantial evidence together, and then look at ALL the convoluted chemical events that had to happen in order to explain the results, plus the Viking results (which are becoming less an unambiguous "no life" each day) and it becomes hard to argue that extant life isn't the *simplest* explanation. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Lost in Space?
>Jayme -- you're the resident SciFi writer (along with Michael, apparently!). >What would happen to such a colony? Imagine, a group of 30 persons, stuck >together on Mars for 2 years, while Mars and Earth are in distant orbit from >one another. >I'd guess that the closest you'd get to the sort of people who could hack it >on Mars would be those who have already spent time in a place like >Antarctica. Now there's your next science fiction novel, Jayme. Hahaha! Kim Stanley Robinson has already written an award-winning series of books that tackles all your questions -- _Red Mars_, _Green Mars_ and _Blue Mars_, and then followed those up with _Antarctica_. He "shows off" with his writing at places, and has technological stars in his eyes a lot of times (I can't see the construction of a skyhook being *that* easy, nano magic and Mars' low gravity notwithstanding) but there are very interesting takes on all the questions you posed. And when you ask questions like this, you need to differentiate between a "colony" and a "base." A 30-person staff does not a colony make. This would be a semi-permanent research settlement, with personnel doing "tours of duty" of several years at a time, then rotated out. Early on, I don't see anyone wanting to live on Mars permanently. Once you get a population growing into the hundreds, then you shift into colony mode. Construction and expansion is directed more by locals rather than by Earth. Self-sufficiency improves and increases. Everyone and their dog doesn't have strict scientific training -- you start getting more technical support personnel that aren't researching Mars itself but rather maintaining the facilities as their primary job. Eventually, people decided to stay on Mars when their rotation is up. Babies are born. Starbucks opens. AOL starts sending them "One Billion Minutes of Free Online Time" on neat little protein wafers they can eat, which migrates to their digital interface implant instilling the proper AOL access coding. I don't think living on Mars would be as stressful psychologically as living on a space station (of the kind we have now) or even the moon. Mars has air and wind and weather. It's a planet, with seasons and a color sky, and stars at night. Its day is roughly 24 hours, the same as Earth. There's water there. People will swap email and video messaging with the folks back on Earth. Sure, there will be a 24-hour delay, but that's pretty much the way email is today. Instant Messaging will be SOL tho. I imagine porn sites will still be extremely popular. Physically, I don't expect there to be much of a downside so long as there are enough gardens and yeast vats going to provide food and greenery for the colony. Most of the colony buildings would be built either underground or of regolith sintered into bricks, which provide a very high level of radiation shielding. There would be some bone and muscle degradation due to lower gravity, but one-third gravity isn't the same as zero g, and I don't see this deterioration being anywhere as near as severe as what we get with the Mir astronauts in orbit for years at a time. Muscle and bone mass would decline a certain amount, and then stop, reaching an equilibrium with the local gravity. Of course, that's all just speculation on my part, and I could be completely wrong. But those are my thoughts, such as they are. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Cislunar Lagrange Point Claims
>>Individuals and corporations generally lack the interest or ability to do so. You have a VERY high opinion of individuals and corporations! >However, even with such a concept as a solar system claim stake treaty, >Cislunar space should be limited to international development, under the >auspices of the UN. Giving a lagrange point to any private or national >nterest would be a dangerous thing. But the lagrange points are going to be the *really* valuable real estate. Some formula for utilization will have to be established, otherwise you *will* have corporations fighhting over it. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: SF notes
>Such dreadful pessimism, and from a science fiction writer no less! >Jayme, 50 years ago, concepts for the year 2001 all had us driving around in >air cars. Here we are in 2001 -- no jet cars, but we have something >better... the internet. Why bother commuting to the office, when you can do >something quite similar simply by sitting down at your keyboard, and >comunicating with people all over the world? Not pessimism, realism. Were I pessimistic, I'd be saying we won't go to Mars for 50 years or more, if ever. Or that medical hurdles will be too difficult to overcome. Or that any such mission would resemble that dreadful Val Kilmer flick. The Internet doesn't have diddly-squat to do with going to Mars, or Jetsons cars in 2001 or whatever. You're right, no futurists predicted the World Wide Web, but then again no one predicted VCRs, DVD, Silly Putty or Pop Rocks either. Science fiction isn't about accurately predicting the future, it's about posing questions about issues we may face in the future (or already face now) -- unless it's pure escapism, which is really a rarity. Yes, I remember Commodore 64s. I also remember Atari home computers and Apple II computers that used floppy discs that really were floppy. Again, diddly-squat to do with Mars in any direct sense. The whole cloning fury these last few weeks, with that French Canadian nutcase funding cloning of himself because "aliens told him to" and other groups just makes me shake my head in disbelief. Not that people are trying to clone people, but how stupid the general population is in regards to it. Barbara Walters was wailing and beating her breast on 20/20 a couple weeks ago, saying how horrible and sudden all this was, and why are they able to do it now when all along everyone's said cloning is impossible? That's stupid. No reputable scientist would *ever* say anything is impossible, and SF has been debating the issues of cloning for the better part of the last century. Everyone's worried about cloning bodies for organs -- well guess what? That's obscenely expensive and inefficient. Won't happen. What will happen is that we start cloning individual organs from a person's own cell stock within 10-15 years for organ transplants. And you know what? I don't believe any of these "clone a human" groups in the news lately are going to be the first to do so. I'm convinced that there are clones alive today, only not advertised as such. There was a book published in 1978-79 or so titled _In His Image_ about a supposed millionaire who financed a cloning of himself to be his own heir. Published as nonfiction (written by a well-known science reporter, I believe) but decried and dismissed as a hoax (and eventually reclassified as fiction) it's nevertheless every interesting reading. I find it telling that all the techniques described in this book are the very same ones that are being discussed as cutting edge and state of the art today. Even if _In His Image_ *is* a hoax, I don't doubt that somewhere else the efforts described therein came to fruition. And I don't believe Dolly the sheep was the first mammal cloned, either. >So... 2030? That's really like saying 2100. I don't think it will take that long to get some sort of manned mission going. Nope, I don't think it is the same at all. There is *no* mass uprising demanding that we go to Mars at this time. Even using Mars Direct as a basis, you're still going to be looking at budgets that will make the ISS look like a bargain in comparison. We *cannot* mount a manned mission to Mars now that would reach the planet before 2015 -- and that's if real mission planning and development were fast-tracked today. Unlike with Apollo, we don't currently have the infrastructure in place to build upon, and Mars is considerably more difficult to reach than the moon. We'll cointinue to send more and more advanced robot probes to the red planet for the next decade, getting more and more intriguing information back. maybe Mars Scout will take off, and give us live streaming video from dozens of aerial balloons floating above the Martain desert and mountains. Maybe some future rover will find some curious deposits within limestone sedimentary deposits. Maybe the next generation orbiter will find an actual hotspring or geyser erupting. Right now they're laying the philosophical groundwork for a Mars mission, nothing more. By 2010 the thinking will likely shift from "Someday we will go to Mars" to "We'd better start thinking about Mars." Then some serious money will be thrown at feasability studies and concepts and ideas -- remember, it was more than 15 years from the time Reagan proposed the "Freedom" space station to the time the ISS actually had its first component launched, and that's *with* a series of administrations that supported the space station! By 2015 actual bids will be placed for spacecraft design and development, and the real cash starts to
Re: RE: finding material resources in space was submersible..
>>> Jayme is right of course. I had intended my remarks to to concern cis-lunar space not actually beyopnd the moon. Ah, well space stations would be another matter. They'd be beholden to outside resources, so if building and occupying space stations becomes desirable for some reason, then I'll bet we see a rapid development of refineries and such on the moon, as it'd be a LOT cheaper to lift that stuff from the lunar gravity well than from Earth's. Who wants to bet that within 50 years, staking claim to shares of the lagrange points in the Earth-moon system becomes a hotter investment scheme than dot-com domain names? Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: finding material resources in space was submersible..
Well, it follows that any kind of moon or Mars base will have to be self-sufficient to at least a limited extent. Any kind of base expansion will likely rely on sintering regolith into bricks for construction, and processing local air and soils for oxygen and water supplies (of course it should be easier to get water on Mars). Really, any planetary colonies will likely be isolated physically, socially and culturally for quite a while, unless stellar propulsion improves dramatically in the next 50 years. Even then I don't see starfaring trade being a major player in the grand scheme of things. Said colonies will likely be self-sufficient out of necessity, with only entertainment and information exchanged to any great extent. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: SF notes
>> So... imagine taking some of the technologies we've discussed here, some of >> the real world ideas, and then writing a story featuring them. How about a >> story about a manned (sorry, Bruce, its got to be manned, for drama!) trip >> to >> Europa, set in 2010... ideally, it would be Clarke's 2010 story, written >> with >> real knowledge, not speculation and deus ex machina technology. >Interesting you should mention that... Ha! Such optomism here. We'll be lucky to get a *robot* probe launched to Europa by 2010, much less a manned mission. Such a story would have to be based on an alternate history, perhaps one in which Apollo had continued unfettered and established a moon base by 1980, and missions to Mars by 1990. As it stands now, I'll be mightily surprised if we reach Mars by 2030 (and that's not taking into account the recent hiatus of Mars mission studies). Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: SF notes
>>>Red Storm Rising was Clancy's first, and best book. It simply gathered together available naval data, and put it together in the context of a war. The book was so technical, so plausible, that the US military intelligence services were at first disturbed, then delighted, with the attention it threw on military technology. Nope. _Red Storm Rising_ was Clancy's follow-up to _The Hunt for Red October_ which I feel is his best book. _Red Storm Rising_ was far too heavily influenced by Gen. John Hackett's _The Third World War_ and _The Third World War: The Untold Story_ to suit me. It also echoed _First Salvo_ an Aegis-cruiser age naval warfare novel in which a conventional WWIII between us and the Soviets is over in a week. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: SF notes
>There are serious dangers with this approach in SF. To some extent, of >course, it HAS to be used -- but in any SF story, if you're going to make >flying leaps in scientific extrapolation,you have to try to make them >logically consistent, and limit any radical changes you make in known >scientific laws as much as possible. Otherwise you end up with >self-indulgent fantasy masquerading as SF -- and while there is most >definitely such a thing as good fantasy, and there's no absolute sharp >borderline between fantasy and SF, the particular literary strengths and >weaknesses of the two areas are significantly different. Quite a few SF and >fantasy writers have written intelligently (by which I mean genuine literary >analysis, not just science nerdism) on this problem, and I recommend you try >to track down some of what they've had to say. Bruce is 100% right, of course. In our discussions, I've found him extrememly well read in science fiction, and with this observation he's spot on. Much the same opinions can be found amid the newsgroup discussions at www.SFF.net . Now, it's possible to do more surreal, laws of reality don't apply kinds of stories in a Zelazny or Moorcockian sort of way, but those writers are known first and foremost as stylists with incredible grasps of the English language. If you're going to attempt something similar, then you'd better be prepared to knock yourself out reaching their plateau. Yes, they disregard laws of reality and such in a lot of their work, but I've never seen this done because it was "a convenient way out of a problem." Everything they do has a reason beind it, and you never see them use "and the hero then escapes the inescapapeable death trap." To whit: If ANYTHING is possible, nothing matters. A hand-waving "then a miracle happens" plot point is a sure sign of bad writing. Deus ex machina sucks. And it cheats the reader or viewer. You get it in various Star Trek series a lot later in their runs. In fact, you get in TV and movie SF a lot more than anywhere else. Written fiction has higher standards, mainly because in order to get published by a non-vanity press, writers have to be familiar with the conventions of the genre and pitfalls. Hollywood SF is invariably written by Hollywood "pros" who often can't be bothered with even reading the source material. Which is why we get drek like Soldier, the Sixth Day, Forever Young, Total Recall, Starship Troopers, Timecop... an infinite variety of similar takes on the same inbred themes over and over. Seriously, most things produced out of Hollywood in the last 30 years (with a few notable exceptions) are based pretty much around concepts that were already cliche back in the days of Hugo Gernsback. And the situation with fantasy is even worse, but hopefully the new Lord of the Rings films will change that. There seems to be a tendancy to lump Hollywood (known as Sci-Fi) with publishing (known as SF). They aren't the same, and most writers cringe whenever Hollywood lobs another turkey like Battlefield Earth into the fray (if anyone's even *glanced* at the book, you'll know there *no way* such drek could make a watchable film. But then Bridge Publications isn't exactly an unbiased publishing house). Sci-Fi has come to embody all the *bad* qualities people associate with science fiction, but unfortuantely (and I see this on this list as well) the general public tends to think Sci-Fi is the whole. Look, if Hollywood really wants to impress, then let them film an unbastardized version of Anderson's _Tau Zero_ that wasn't dumbed down to the lowest common denominator (as opposed to _The High Crusade_). THAT'S a movie that would blow people's minds! Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Europa submersible hypothetical
>>>SF writers do it this way: We skip over the ruminations of the Bruce Moomaws of the world, ...So here it is: The material? Water. The location? Europa. The customer? A species from a planet in dire need of water. The propulsion system? Why, the usual, of course. Greg Bear pulled that trick with _Forge of God_ but really, if you're going to market water to other species in the galaxy (and there's no reason to think we'd want to -- star spectrums show that water ain't rare in this part of space. Besides, who's to say we won't need it for our own colonial/terraforming use?) it's be a lot easier to just go hitch an ion engine/mass driver to a Kupier Belt object, and move it to the desired pickup window. After all, you don't have that big, nasty gravity well of Jupiter to deal with, and there are no "native biospheres" to worry about. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: RE: Europa submersible hypothetical
Not naive questions at all -- I asked most of them when I first joined up. The best place to find the answers to those questions (especially the pressure gradients and such) is here: http://home.vicnet.net.au/~nbrotar/Europam.htm Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Europan volcanism?
Not ice volcanism, but the spewing fire and lava version. If there is hope that tidal heating produces thremal vents, might there also be true-blue volcano mountains on the ocean floor? Or is the tidal heating not expected to produce that much energy? Could massive volcanic eruptions be responsible for some of the "upwelling" features on the Europan crust? Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Europa submersible hypothetical
>>>Any crewed expedition to Europa would be a six-year round trip... so don't forget to include an engineer to deal with *six years* of accumulated Mir-style gremlins, and a medic/psychologist. Well, by the time we could send an actual freakin' submarine to Europa, I'd expect we'd have established at least a semipermanent staging base within the ice crust itself, deep enough to shielf from Jupiter's radiation, but not so deep that ice pressures aren't a constant danger of crushing said base. There'd have to be a fairly large staff onhand to support sub and research operations -- I guess that didn't go without saying (although I assumed it did). It'd be interesting tho to see designs for a self-contained sub that could navigate the distance from Earth to Europa under its own power, bore through the ice, and then swim around underneat for months on end doing fun research type stuff... Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Europa submersible hypothetical
Neat speculation on the oceanic composition, all, but my main curiosity is still unaddressed: What would the ideal specialties of a four person crew be, and what are the most desirable instruments to include on a submersible? I'd think a biochemist and micro(exo)biologist would be indespensible, whether life is known to exist there or not. What else would we want? Geologist? What would the study of the underside of kilometers-thick icepacks be called? Would they send an... oceanographer(?) to study the composition of the sea itself? Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Europa submersible hypothetical
Purely speculative question here. Let's say it's 100-200 years in the future. We've got the funding, and are going to drop a submersible through the ice to study Europa's ocean for several months at a time. Four person crew. What would the scientific specialties of the crewmembers be in order to have as broad a research base as possible? What types of instruments would be indespensable on the submersible? And on an unrelated note, speculation is that the ocean is extrememly heavy in salts and sulfuric acid, right? So what would Europan seawater smell like if exposed to air? Sulphur stink? Ordinary saltwater? Or something else entirely? Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Pearl Harbor??
>>Is anyone else a tad bit tickled over the whole unmanned thing from the >>people who are most remembered for the exact opposite tactic on Pearl >>Harbor for a much less valuable cause? > >I don't quite get this. Are you saying that the U.S. thought in the Forties >that the ships on Pearl Harbor should somehow be unmanned? And are you >saying that winning World War II was a "much less valuable cause" than >immediately establishing whether there's life on Mars? If the Allies had >lost World War II, it can be argued that there wouldn't have been much >intelligent life on EARTH. I *think* the reference here is to kamikaze attacks. Which, of course, didn't begin until several years *after* Pearl Harbor, once the Imperial navy was getting its ass severely kicked. But I could be wrong. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Red dwarf stars: Friendly to life?
>>>Agreed. I was hoping that an earth-sized moon orbiting a jovian planet companion to a dwarf would benefit from tidal heating to augment the heat budget and recycle the crust. I guess the moon would have to be close enough to get healty tides but far enough away to avoid the radiation belts. Would a jovian planet develop the same type of radiation belts around a dwarf? Why must a Jovian planet have such intense radiation belts? I mean, they're fairly unique to Jupiter. Saturn isn't that much smaller, and is big enough to provoke tidal heating. Yet as far as I've ever heard it's radiation levels are negligible. Is there an upper limit to the size of terrestrial moons around Jovian planets? I've heard 10 times the size of Earth is a theoretical limit for planetary bodies, but does this vary if it's a moon? >>>As far as civilization destroying itself, I remember a strange sf book Mote in God's Eye about this very concept. Forbidden Planet was a B-grade movie with kinda the same theme, along with maybe the Lathe of Heaven (a better version of the same idea). Mote in God's Eye is a brilliant high-water mark in SF. The aliens Niven and Pournell developed were jsut that -- alien. Fantastic piece. And I don't think many people would agree that Forbidden Planet was a B-grade movie. It's very intelligent (the plot taken from Shakespeare) and has special effects far ahead of its time. Many consider it the best SF movie ever made (I easily rank it in the top 10). I've yet to see the PSB Lathe of Heaven movie (now out on DVD) but you can bet that anything by LeGuin is going to be intelligent and thought provoking. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Microoganisms and Phylogeny
>>>Alright then... I have a science fiction question for you then, Jeremy... since the two different DNA systems are totally unrecognizable to one another, could a human 'digest' a nonterrestial plant? Imagine the advertising: Maybe, maybe not. There are LOTS of terrestrial plants that are inedible, toxic, noxious or just plain worthless as food sources to humans. Grass, for instance. A person would starve to death trying to eat grass. And don't forget wood. Oak chips: They're not just for breakfast anymore. That has nothing to do with the person's ability to digest DNA -- only what that genetic code programs the plant to grow into determines whether it's edible or not. There could very well be alien plants that produce sugars terrestrial life could digest, and maybe our mineral requirements. But starches and vitamins? Those are so unique to earth (of all the complexities possible, why'd evolution settle on those?) that I doubt you'd find them elsewhere. Analogs, certainly, unless the alien life's respiration is radically different, but not likely usable by our digestive systems. And that's not even getting into animal protein, if indeed "animals" exist as we know them (plants either, for that matter). There are so many types of protein in terrestrial animals that are deadly toxic to humans, and many more combinations possible, so what's to prevent toxic meat from being the rule? Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Estimate: Fifty billion Earth-like worlds in the Milky Waygalaxy
>>>Studying why black bears keep their muscles during hibernation? Is this another multimillion dollar study to learn something we already know? Isn't the key word here "gravity?" Isn't that why the astronauts use the exercise machines religiously while in space? I ask my usual question once more: What am I missing here? Sorry, nope. "Gravity" isn't the answer. Gravity helps maintain muscle strength when you *working against it* but when you sleep, muscle deteriorates. It's not enough to notice overnight, but over the long term... Bone, ironically, just needs gravity to maintain density, which has brought about suggestions that astronauts sleep in an centrifuge during long-term exposure to microgravity. But muscles have to be used to stay fit. In zero gravity conditions many muscles (legs, especially) are not used, and therefore weaken. But this is not a direct effect of low gravity as I understand it. Put it this way: If you induce sleep in a person for seven months, and maintain nutrition requirements, when that person wakes up, he's going to have a devil of a time moving *anywhere* under his own power. Whereas the bear can just wake up, saunter over and eat our sleeping guy without so much as breaking a sweat. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Why Go There?
I don't argue that we need a human presence in space, be it space craft, space station or planetary exploration. What everyone grumbles about here is that there is no long-term strategic plan, and no fiscal discipline. Initial estimates for ANY Nasa program are so obscenely cheap you'd think that you could just run down to Wal Mart and pick one up, but then once a lot of $$$ is already spent, suddenly the budget balloons and bloats and performance goals are reduced... Before all is said and done, the "cheap" ISS is going to cost just as much, if not more than Reagan's space-borne behemouth that was run out of Congress on a rail. The VentureStar is going to cost a thousand times more than the space shuttle, and will have performance capabilities only marginally better, if that. Politics (within and without) have been jerking the space program around for more than 50 years now, making boneheaded decisions which started back with killing off the Air Force's X-20 project. Dan Golden's helter-skelter Mars in a handbasket as long as we get headlines approach to space exploration has been an insane mess. NASA's long-term strategy and goals have never, to my knowledge, been audited. Were they, I'm certain we'd be treated to an expose on an operation that has no idea what it will be doing next week, and only half a clue about what it's doing today. No one here opposes manned (or unmanned) spaceflight. We just see that it could be so much more, and done so much more cheaply. I mean, seriously. It's 30 years later, and apart from internal tech, the ISS isn't all that much more evolved from Skylab -- and THAT space station was a great example of using "off the shelf" junk to put together a successful program. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Microoganisms and Phylogeny
>>>In my ignorance, I seem to be missing something. Talking about the "risk of cross-pollination": risk of what? "We are going to have to be very careful." Careful of what? If Martian microbes contaminate Earth microbes or vice versa, what might happen? Please help a layman understand. Thanks. Nothing might happen. Or, we could get events like that which sometimes happen in hospitals and such, in which a drug resistant bacteria abruptly swaps genes with that of another that has never shown resistance and we suddenly have an outbreak. Or the concern that pollinating crops gene-spliced to be naturally toxic to certain insects will pass this on to wild cousins (re: weeds) which will then run rampant without nature's checks and balances (re: bugs eating them) to control things. Granted, these are terrestrial analogies, but the concerns can be extrapolated to space-originating organisms. The Andromeda Strain can be viewed in much the same light, although no gene-swapping takes place there (although gene swapping DOES take place in the movie Species -- there's a cautionary first contact tale that casts Contact in a new light). But again, unless Earth or Mars "seeded" each other, the possibility of cross-polination is astronomically low. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Microoganisms and Phylogeny
>>>In that connection, I'm very uneasy about NASA's current tentative plan to have the Mars sample-return capsule land directly on Earth. It's designed as a non-parachute "puffball" structure that supposedly can withstand any impact on hard or jagged rocks; but what if it lands in the ocean or some other place where it's never found and eventually corrodes open? I much prefer retrieval in orbit by the Shuttle (which need not also entail an expensive orbiting quarantine lab -- the sample canister could simply be loaded into a very thick-walled crashproof cask with good locator gear, which the Shuttle could easily carry in addition to carrying out another orbital mission). I also favor coating the outside surface of the small sample-return container itself with an ignitable compound to heat-sterilize any dust particles stuck on the outside of the canister. Ironically, this seems to be a perfect use for the otherwise reviled ISS. I mean, what's more natural for studying samples of other planets in a "quarantine" environment than a space station orbiting high above the biosphere? Of course, it's not set up to handle such things... Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Microoganisms and Phylogeny
And, what if a martian microbe could somehow > exchange genes with a terrestial microbe? Right now there's no reason to think that any extraterrestrial organisms even have "genes" in the way we think. They could use protiens as a genetic conductor. Or have some form or structure that is totally dissimilar to DNA's double-helix. Even if they were to use the DNA double-helix, they use a different set of amino acids as the conveyors, which would be as unintelligible to our RNA and genetic codes as silicon chips. I doubt "cross-pollination" will ever be a legitimate concern. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: The Preturber in the Oort Comet Cloud
>>> I kinda like old name for the theoretical lurking Oort monster, Nemisis. Was it Clarke that came up with that? I don't know if Clarke coined it first, but Asimov wrote a novel about it by that title (one of his last). If I remember rightly, it was pretty interesting reading until the last third or so of the book, at which point it fell completely apart. Ah well, not every book can be _The Gods Themselves_. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Red dwarf stars: Friendly to life?
>>> Anyway, there's a larger issue: if Red Dwarfs are so great for creating life and civilizations, then where are they all? I think the formula is incomplete. I don't think anyone's saying red dwarfs are "great" but rather that they could be viable under teh right circumstances, which is considerably different from the conventional view just a couple years ago. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: The juggling begins
>>>Now it's time for that ISS to start producing something substantial. For instance, instead of messing around with little science experiments, why not spend some time figuring out how to make space pay money? Well, were this two years ago, you could just call it the "ISS.com" and hordes of people with more money than sense would fling green at you for a chance to be on the ground floor of "the next big thing." Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: RE: NASA Watch comments on the Fox Apollo crapumentary
>>>I read in it that the whole U.S. and Russian space programs were PR fakes designed >to cover military research. There was a story either in National Geographic or some other well-heeled magazine about a well-off space enthusiast who'd gone to Cuba for some event, and ran into a group of schoolchildren there. He found out that they'd been taught in school that everything NASA does is faked in Hollywood. This disturbed him so much that he arranged a trip for the whole class to Florida to view a shuttle launch in person. James Oberg's books are good sources for "official misinformation." Wackos and fringe conspiracy press aren't the only ones responsible. And I remember the trailers and promos for that early 80s flick "Hangar 18" used somekind of voice over making it sound like the film was an expose on the fact that the space shuttle used a back-engineered guidance system taken from the Roswell crash (when in fact that bad movie had nothing to do with the Roswell incident, and had nothing to do with the space shuttle, either, apart from the opening sequence). Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Astronomers mock Fox show about Moon fakery
>>>Right! And is there any reason why NASA can't sue FOX for slander? I think NASA itself should show the media can't get away with this! This is more of a case of "not dignifying the absurdity of the claims with a response." NASA might as well remain silent on this subject. It reminds me of that scene in Life of Brian: Brian: "I'm not the messiah!" Rabid Followers: "Only the true messiah would deny his divinity!" Brian: "Okay then, I am the messiah." Rabid Followers: "It's true! He said it himself!" Besides, if the moon landings were faked, then where does that leave Neil Armstrong's boyhood neighbor, Mr. Krelborne? Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Astronomers mock Fox show about Moon fakery
>>>OK, so you are a responsible member of the "media." Where is your professional reply to the Fox travesty? Where are the cries of outrage from other "responsible members of the media?" Where is the official rebuttal from the other news organizations, and why can't such a rebuttal get as much attention as the original bogus "documentary?" The thing is, these "reality expose" shows are looked upon as bad entertainment programming by everyone in the business. As opposed to "real news." Most outlets such as CNN, ABC, CBS etc. aren't going to waste their time trying to debunk the garbage FOX runs, as it's so patently ludicrous anyway that it's obviously a crock. Besides, if they ran around trying to correct the the stupidity of FOX, that'd be a 24/7 job. I believe for all the dumbing down the main newsgathering organizations do (gads, anyone see the 20/20 cloning piece over the weekend? Has Barbara Walters been living in a hole these last 20 years or what?) they at least *hope* their viewing public is wise enough to see all this Chariots of the Gods crap for what it is. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: NASA Watch comments on the Fox Apollo crapumentary
>>>Well, FOX wasn't even original, they stole the idea from the movie "Capricorn One"! >In this movie it wasn't the Moon that NASA was pretending to have landed upon, but >Mars. As for the killing of astronauts who knew to much: just the same. Maybe the copyright-holders of "Capricorn One" are willing to sue FOX??? Not likely. The producer of Capricorn One was one of the chief commentators on the show, apparently. And O.J. Simpson said the moon landings were faked in an attempt to flush out "the real killers." Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Deep Space 1 Mission Update - February 11, 2001
A bit tongue in cheek, aren't they? Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: I hope no one has bought Europa (yet)!
>>>Yep -- the 1958 story was called "Watch This Space" Yeah, I'm aware of "Watch This Space." But this was different, and more recent. Perhaps it was Pizza Hut, before it was sold out of the Pepsi behemouth. Geeze, I wish I'd saved those stories. Anyway, apart from the beginnings of outcry about the plan, it was also deemed unfeasable due to the numbers involved and abandoned. Still, we did get to see a giant, blow-op Pepsi can on Mir! Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: I hope no one has bought Europa (yet)!
>>> In the meantime, I'm thankful we can still look at the moon through telecopes >without seeing the golden arches of mcdonalds engraved somewhere on its surface. :) Was it Pepsi or Coke or somebody who caught flack a few years back for studying the feasability of beaming a laser logo onto the surface of the moon to be visible from Earth? Someone did. And someday someone will go through with it for the stunt value alone. Yuck. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: I hope no one has bought Europa (yet)!
What a moron. If the situation were really as wide-open as that, all NASA would have to do is bring condemnation proceedings to play against Eros, as the supposed "owners" have never visited the property, and certainly never made any improvements to it... Seriously, isn't it about time someone gets taken to task for frivolous stupidity? Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Icy Pluto's Fall From the Planetary Ranks: A Conversation
You know what? I don't think Pluto gives a rat's ass about what academics classify it as. It was here a long time before them, and it'll be here long after they're gone. :-) Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ "The Dust" coming April 2001 in THE ANT-MEN OF TIBET, AND OTHER STORIES from Big Engine http://www.bigengine.co.uk/index.htm Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Shuttle EVA trumps NEAR landing attempt
>>>It appears that NASA believes that a relatively routine Space Shuttle EVA is more important that the first attempt to land a spacecraft on the surface on a planetoid: Hey, NASA's got quite a bit more $$$ tied up in the EVA. You make the call. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ *The Dust* by Jayme Lynn Blaschke now available from Mooncast Shadows http://www.exoticdeer.org/chapbook.html Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius The Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: E.T. or Alien? The Character of Other Intelligence
>Where you stand depends on where you sit. Exactly. That was the point of the original post here -- that "benevolent" action depends upon specific points of view. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ *The Dust* by Jayme Lynn Blaschke now available from Mooncast Shadows http://www.exoticdeer.org/chapbook.html Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius The Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: E.T. or Alien? The Character of Other Intelligence
>>>Consider also that what a civilization considers 'benevolent' might not be seen as such by the receiving civilization. Indeed. Consider that missionaries destroyed almost all aspects of the Mayan, Incan and Aztec cultures they ran across, and the Australian government forcibly removed Aborigine children from their parents to raise as "white" since that race was doomed to extinction and this was more humane, after all. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ *The Dust* by Jayme Lynn Blaschke now available from Mooncast Shadows http://www.exoticdeer.org/chapbook.html Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius The Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: RE: Golden Disasters
>>> Still, they're going to have to pick up the pace if they expect to land on Europa by 2010. >What mission are you referring to that says NASA is going to land on Europa >in 2010? Has something been scheduled? Sheesh, I've got to remember not everyone reads as much SF as I do. The reference is to Arthur C. Clarke's novel _2010_ in which the Chinese launch an ill-fated mission to Europa ahead of the U.S. and Russia. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ *Cyclops in B Minor* by Jayme Lynn Blaschke now available from Mooncast Shadows http://www.exoticdeer.org/chapbook.html The Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Golden Disasters
>Niall: I don't have access to the numbers, but I do know that a LOT more than 10 have died in space related mishaps. Ten American astronauts have died on the launchpad or during launch: seven on the Challenger, and three on Apollo 1. Various other active astronauts have died over the years have died in plane crashes and auto wrecks, but not in their spacecraft. For Russia this number is somewhat higher -- including a lot of ground support and scientific personnel killed during preflight testing. Launch pad explosions wiped out a lot of their brainpower, and is a significan factor behind our reaching the moon first. Space is dangerous. Period. That's a major reason China is taking it slow and cautious with thier program. They don't want any failures to "embarrass" the program, and certainly no deaths. Still, they're going to have to pick up the pace if they expect to land on Europa by 2010. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ *Cyclops in B Minor* by Jayme Lynn Blaschke now available from Mooncast Shadows http://www.exoticdeer.org/chapbook.html The Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: The Sound of One Cell Growing
>Just as long as it's not wearing a Roman war helmet and a pair of tennis >shoes. (By the way, given their fondness for Warner Brothers cartoons, why >hasn't somebody in this Group proposed blasting through Europa's ice layer >with an Eludium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator?) That's the "Illudium Pew-36 Explosive Space Modulator." Sheesh, Bruce, you'll be confusing "areobraking" with "aerocapture" next! Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ *Cyclops in B Minor* by Jayme Lynn Blaschke now available from Mooncast Shadows http://www.exoticdeer.org/chapbook.html The Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: SV: Science Fair Project (fwd)
I hate to poop on anyone's parade, but this "science project" is as annoying as it is worthless. Yeah, it's not a hoax (you can tell because it actually contains an end date) but what will it accomplish? Determining how much bandwidth a junk mail chain letter can gobble up? Heck, there are a lot of other science projects that could be done that actually accomplish something and educate the student -- he could be cloning African clawed frogs or building a backyard radio telescope to monitor solar radio activity. Instead, he has other people forward pointless emails. I keep waiting for the one with poor little Timmy O'Toole who's fallen down the well and needs everyone in the world to send him an email so he'll feel better and get into the Guiness book of world records for winning a trip to Disneyland from Bill Gates... Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ *Cyclops in B Minor* by Jayme Lynn Blaschke now available from Mooncast Shadows http://www.exoticdeer.org/chapbook.html The Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Golden Disasters
>>> Perhaps the lives of astronauts are the sacrificial lambs that the space program will demand? Astronauts are the direct descendants of the aggressive test pilots of decades past. While mission specilists and such have toned down that image and culture a lot, I still get the impression that the astronaut corps is a pretty exclusive fraternity that is quite proud of its daring outlaw heritage. They aren't going to take any excess risks -- heck, no one wants to lose their skin -- but all the same they know what they do is very dangerous work. I don't think sacrificial lambs is an accurate analogy at all, although I understand what you are trying to get at. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ *Cyclops in B Minor* by Jayme Lynn Blaschke now available from Mooncast Shadows http://www.exoticdeer.org/chapbook.html The Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: RE: Dah, dah, DAAAAH.....
It would be gloriously cool if it reappeared in different cities around the world all year... Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ *Cyclops in B Minor* by Jayme Lynn Blaschke now available from Mooncast Shadows http://www.exoticdeer.org/chapbook.html The Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Beating Up on a Young Earth, and Possibly Life
>>> As for Levison's theory about Uranus and Neptune shifting their original orbits, it's quite popular (although far from proven). I don't understand the celestial mechanics principles myself very well, but apparently their migrating orbits would be kept pretty close to circular by the repetitive nature of the gravitational tuggings from Jupiter and Saturn that caused the migration. As the giant planets -- moving at their different speeds around the Sun -- repeatedly tugged at each other during their closest approaches on each orbit, Jupiter would have been slightly slowed down and drifted slightly inwards, while the much less massive Uranus and Neptune would have been dragged along and accelerated by the tugs and thus spiraled considerably outwards. (Theories vary on which direction Saturn would have moved, although its movement would have been fairly small in either direction. There's also some belief that Mars might have been slowed down enough by Jupiter's dragging at it that it might have spiraled some moderate distance inward from its initial orbit.) That's fine, and basically fits with the general theories about the origin of the outer solar system I'm heard here and there. What I still don't get is how not just one, but two gas giants the size of Uranus and Neptune could migrate *across* Saturn's orbit successfully. I would expect some seriously catastrophic events to result. I could envision an abrupt fling, in which Jupiter grabbed first one, and then the other and tossed them out over the course of a few decades -- an event which could easily avoid any conflict with Saturn, but that would result in a very erratic orbit, if not outright ejection from the solar system. If it was a slow migration, over the course of hundreds of millions of years, well, I'd expect some kind of conflict to come into play as Neptune's and Uranus' orbits gradually intersected Saturns. I could even see a Saturnian capture, or collision. But a peaceful, relatively uneventful crossing? Maybe my knowledge of orbital mechanics is grossly inadequate, but while I fully understand how Jupiter could drag them outward, inward or anyward, that crossing of the orbital planes still leaves me baffled. Uranus and Neptune don't have that convenient steep orbital inclination like Pluto, so what gives? Unless, of course, all these references are in regards to current orbits, and the planetary order was always more or less what it is now-- but then that doesn't make sense either, as I'm under the impression that the gas giants coalesced *much* farther out than their current orbits. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ *Cyclops in B Minor* by Jayme Lynn Blaschke now available from Mooncast Shadows http://www.exoticdeer.org/chapbook.html The Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Beating Up on a Young Earth, and Possibly Life
>>>Levison is toying with the idea that Uranus and Neptune >>>started out between Jupiter and Saturn, where his simulations suggest >>>they could have orbited for hundreds of millions of years before >>>flying out into the lingering debris beyond Saturn and triggering a >>>late heavy bombardment. >Could this possibly have been from the impact that knocked Uranus on its side? Interesting indeed. But is it even physically possible for Uranus and Neptune to have "migrated outward" and maintained stable orbits? Were this the case, I'd expect them to have highly inclined, highly eccentric orbits -- Saturn too, since Uranus and Neptune would've had significant pull on the lesser of our two big Jovians. And what kind of impact could be strong enough to knock Uranus over without utterly breaking that planet apart? Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ *Cyclops in B Minor* by Jayme Lynn Blaschke now available from Mooncast Shadows http://www.exoticdeer.org/chapbook.html The Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: A new take on the Jovian gasbag life forms
You know, _Wheelers_ has gotten mostly postive reviews from what I've seen. There's no buzz about it yet, but it's hard to tell with books so soon after their release. I first read "A Meeting With Medusa" back in junior high, out of Clarke's _The Sentinel_ collection. Impressed me very much with his medusans -- gas-bag jellyfish-styled creatures of enormous proportions floating through Jupiter's clouds. Enthralling. There may be no life on Jupiter itself, but I certainly hope *some* gas giant somewhere has life of this scope. It would be, to use a highly scientific term, too cool. _The Sentinel_ is also worth picking up for the other tales as well. The title story was the genesis of _2001_ and "The Wind from the Sun" is an excellent solar sail piece written 40 or so years ago now. It still holds up very well. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ *Cyclops in B Minor* by Jayme Lynn Blaschke now available from Mooncast Shadows http://www.exoticdeer.org/chapbook.html The Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: On The Rise of Oxygen...
>>>What in the world is a weta? Director Peter Jackson's Wellington-based SFX company. :-) Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ *Cyclops in B Minor* by Jayme Lynn Blaschke now available from Mooncast Shadows http://www.exoticdeer.org/chapbook.html The Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: On The Rise of Oxygen...
>the reverse of this syndrome; & showed what happen when large >critters got trapped on small islands. Wrangell Island with its dwarf mammoths is another good example of this. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ *Cyclops in B Minor* by Jayme Lynn Blaschke now available from Mooncast Shadows http://www.exoticdeer.org/chapbook.html The Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Pioneer 10 Status Report for December 1, 2000
>The most likely scenario for the first true interstellar probes is that they will >hiberante during much of the journey & recharge using local solar power when they >arrive at their destination. Much simpler. Greg Bear uses this concept in his novel _Queen of Angels_. Quite impressive, if very dense text. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ *Cyclops in B Minor* by Jayme Lynn Blaschke now available from Mooncast Shadows http://www.exoticdeer.org/chapbook.html The Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: "Life at the Limits of Physical Laws" talk at OSETI 3Conference
The thing is, if we're destroyed tomorrow, the likliehood of an alien race discovering the Voyagers, Pioneers, Mariners or whatever is on par with picking out a specific grain of sand on Earth, Mars, Venus and the Moon combined... and I suspect I'm being quite generous with the odds. Unless some ancient civilization built a Dyson sphere somewhere close by, I doubt we'll stumble onto any "artifacts" for thousands of years, if ever. Much more likely, IMHO, that we intercept communications, or even discover aliens themselves. Dead, derelicts don't jump up and wave at passers by. Jayme Lynn Blaschke ___ *Cyclops in B Minor* by Jayme Lynn Blaschke now available from Mooncast Shadows http://www.exoticdeer.org/chapbook.html The Blaschke Home Realm http://www.vvm.com/~caius (u are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
