Re: [EuroPython] conference length
For those who prefer a shorter Python conference, may I recommend the excellent PyConUK in September (and presumably other "national" conferences - in quotes because there's a good spread of nationalities present in my experience). See http://2013.pyconuk.org/#Agenda for an idea of the schedule from last year. And see http://pyconuk.org/ for this year where you can now book tickets - some early birding may still be possible! On 15 April 2014 22:28, Martijn Faassen wrote: > Hey, > > > On 04/15/2014 10:33 PM, Horst Gutmann wrote: > > Every conference I've attended so far had at least on or two time > > slots each day where none of the talks appealed to me and so I went > > to explore the city or just got some sleep at the hotel. This way the > > event stayed fresh and exciting to me and I didn't feel bad for > > skipping some talks if I simply didn't feel like it. That naturally > > only works to a certain extend and eventually I just want to get out > > of the conference again. > > I guess that's one way to deal with it (especially in Florence!). But I > wonder whether that's a way to cope with a problem: should there be time > slots at a conference with 3 or 4 or more parallel tracks where none of the > talks appeal to an attendee? Of course you can't please everyone, but if it > happens to a lot of people you might have a problem. > > When I'm at a conference I tend to want to focus on it. At the third day > of a three day conference I typically notice I am getting tired. I'm glad > that lightning talks tend to be slotted in then at EuroPython, because > that's always a nice variety of things. > > Then there's the potential issue of people who simply don't have time (or > resources) to go to a conference of that length. They can of course attend > it for a couple of days, but people may instead elect to go to a shorter > conference instead where they can have the full experience. It's hard to > get a feel for that though; EuroPython certainly has been growing in > attendance, so that's an argument against that. > > [snip] > > > 5 days is a really long > > time, so perhaps the orgas and the EPS would be willing to experiment > > here with the format a little bit I the future? :-) > > It seems to have been a slow change. > > From the beginning in 2002, it had been a 3 day conference; in Charleroi, > in Gothenburg, in 2006 at CERN and in 2007 and 2008 in Vilnius there was a > 3 day conference too. > > In 2009 in Birmingham there were 3 main conference days, plus 3 tutorial > days before it. This might be the introduction of the tutorial days; it's > possible there were tutorial days at some previous EuroPython, but > certainly not all the time -- I find it hard to google up the schedules now. > > I misremember EuroPython 2010 in Birmingham (the last time I attended); I > thought it was like 2009, but best I can find now it had 4 days of main > conference, plus two days of tutorials in the weekend before it. But I > cannot Google up the time table so I'm not 100% sure. > > I can find an announcement from 2010/11/18 for the conference in 2011 > where the tentative schedule was 2 tutorial days with 4 conference days, > the same as in 2010 in Birmingham. Then the dates were shifted (2011/02/17) > to have everything from monday to friday (5 days, talk days in parallel > with tutorial). > > Since I last attended in 2010 and actually forgot it was 4 days in > Birmingham and was used to 3 day conferences before it, the 5 day massive > schedule looked rather sudden, but it was not. > > Each new format was a reasonable small change from the format of the year > before. Each change had a motivation, but I wonder whether the final effect > was entirely intentional. > > > Regards, > > Martijn > > > ___ > EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Lack of diversity within selected talks
Hi everyone. On 15 Apr 2014, at 16:03, Stefan Scherfke wrote: > > Am 2014-04-15 um 15:07 schrieb Hynek Schlawack : > >> - Having speakers have 3 slots is ridiculous, 2 should be a very rare >> exception. So ask them which talk is more important and there you have some >> free slots. > > I wrote an email to the EP help desk a few days ago and offered to withdraw > one > of my talks in order to give someone else the chance to present his/her ideas. I did exactly the same, of course. I do believe that **diversity** is a very important thing (in general), which turns to be even more important for a conference like EuroPython, where there are a lot of people who would like to contribute. Thus different perspectives on both sides, i.e., talks' proposers and reviewers, are surely needed to make this possible. This community and this conference deserve a very high quality list of talks, and there are many valuable proposals that are still waiting to be accepted. So not a problem at all in withdrawing one (or more, if needed) proposals to favour somebody else !-) Btw, as for clarification, I would like to point out that the list of the talks reported so far refers **only** to the talks that have been accepted after the first round of reviews, i.e., they got only +0 and +1 ratings after the first round. Thus, the organisers didn't make any additional decisions on these talks that changed the original results of the community voting/reviews :-) They took the entire list as it was after the first round of reviews, filtering out training proposals, namely 72 talks out of 86 accepted (as far as I know, btw!) That said, I would kindly suggest the organisers to publish as soon as possible some statistics about submitted talks, corresponding reviews and reviewers. In this way, It would be easier to reason about possible remedies and workaround to tackle this situation. For example, I'm wondering if limiting one single talk per speaker would be enough to reach the total number of talks required for the conference. Maybe yes, but only *numbers* can speak :) m2c. All the Best, Valerio ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] R: Re: conference length
Hello All, On 15 April 2014 20:46, roberto.polli wrote: > Right time to discuss: no. > Right Place to discuss: probably yes. In fact : NO! The correct place to discuss this is the europython-improve list, which was established specifically to discuss improving EuroPython, keeping the EP list free of contention. europython-improve seems to have been abandoned this this year, with the result that the 'ordinary' delegate has at times been inundated with morale-busting bike-shedding. > > Enough said for me, people. > > Peace. +1024 Best wishes, John -- ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Lack of diversity within selected talks - a fix for EP14?
The thread is forking fastly: I suggest to move proposed patches to a new thread (this one?) and continue general discussion on the old one. We could even create a single thread for each of the following patch. A list follows. Peace, R. # Reopening C4P imho it's unfair against people who did their homework: this could even damage the equality cause. # One talk per speaker Seems everybody agrees. I think that two can be a very special case. imho: annunced speakers can't be forced out, only invited to renounce to a slot. # Quotas @EP14 I understand the "quotas are offensive" argumentation: but capping the most- representative gender could even favor "males". conference_value > sum(talk_values) @Nelle: applying quotas only to promoted talks, we won't damage level: many good proposals were discarded, and the "EP scientific committee" is not the ACM, as they consider other things (which we may subscribe or not :D ). # Diversity slots @EP14 Those slots are fine, but I will leave the talk selection to Nelle ;) On Wednesday 16 April 2014 00:26:59 Martijn Faassen wrote: > On 04/15/2014 11:06 PM, Armin Rigo wrote: > > In this case, woman > > participation is going slowly up year after year. I certainly think > > (and hope!) that it's not just because of favorable discrimination; > > instead, it is most probably just a slow process of natural regulation > > that occurs inside a historically strongly biased subculture. This > > process can be encouraged, e.g. I'm fine if some grants are reserved > > to women; but I think that judging technical merits on a different > > scale is not a good way to do that. > > There are a lot of things that can be done instead of quotas. > > I think one function of a Python conference is to help foster the Python > community. If we agree that we would like to have more women speakers > and participants, or just plain broaden the nature of our conference in > general, then you can actively work towards in a whole range of ways: > > * Looking for high-profile female invited speakers. > > * Broadening the scope of topics. The conference should still be Python > themed, but the occasional talk about, say, morality or astronomy or > game development or business can be fit in. I remember such talks from > previous EuroPythons. Keynotes tend to do this already, but there's no > reason to restrict this to keynotes. I myself find that such variety > improves the conference and makes it more inspirational for me. > > * Considering whether we want a self-selected democracy for anonymously > selecting talks based on individual merits, or whether we want to > involve other methods too. Say a smaller group of people that looks at > the overall balance of things. > > * Judging talk proposals on other things than technical merit only. > Originality, presentation, humor, all of these count. Armin is a good > example actually: your talks wouldn't be half as much fun for people > without your presentation style. This may be written down somewhere > already for all I know in the talk selection guidelines actually, but if > not, that may make sense. > > * Having women visibly be present at the conference. PyCon DE last year > was a good example; there were a lot of women involved with its > organization. You can also make this visible explicitly, like at PyCon > DE: everybody involved was called onto the stage in the end. I > understand many of them are involved in the organization of EuroPython > this year. I would certainly recommend getting folks on the stage again > at some point (though I would be bold enough to ask whether you could > speed up that procedure compared to PyCon DE). > > * As was proposed, simply increase variety of speakers by having each > speaker only have one talk. > > * Active outreach to PyLadies and such. It's my understanding that this > exactly that was done. > > * Some conferences let sponsors give some talks. That's a tricky thing > to get right. But here's a less controversial idea: for a community > organized conference I think it's fair if active organizers get a good > chance at getting *their* talk submissions approved. And then if > PyLadies is involved... > > * Grants, as you mention. > > Some of these ideas *do* influence the talk selection process, but not > in the form of quotas. The talk selection process is influenced by many > factors already, and we shouldn't pretend that the current way is only > fair way to do things. > > PyCon is the obvious place to go look for more/better ideas. > > Regards, > > Martijn > > > ___ > EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython -- Roberto Polli Community Manager Babel - a business unit of Par-Tec S.p.A. - http://www.babel.it T: +39.06.9826.9651 M: +39.340.652.2736 F: +39.06.9826.9680 P.zza S.Benedetto da Norcia, 33 - 00040 Pomezia (Rom
Re: [EuroPython] Lack of diversity within selected talks - a fix for EP14?
The most important and urgent thing to do is IMHO to open the CfP again and to reach out to the communities than can help to get a more diverse program. Lynn proposed to get in touch with the global PyLadies organization for example. All the other things can be discussed later. Regards Markus ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
[EuroPython] Diversity of attendees
Hello, I have two points: 1. I'm curious what are stats regarding nationality/country of attendees. 2. I've noticed that together with this year edition there are 13 EuroPythons, where: * 2 of them were located in former Eastern Bloc countries * 11 of them were located in Western Countries Having in mind that there is gap disproportion between wealth level of Western and Eastern Europe I'm curious if EPS or anybody feeling responsible for EuroPython thinks about addressing that problem in future? In my opinion the conference that calls itself EuroPython (and for example not WestEuroPython) should take that into account. Regards, Filip PS. HINT: organizing conference in less wealthy countries usually (but not always) also results in lower conference costs, in result making it more accessible to those with "small pockets". ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Diversity of attendees
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 16/04/14 10:56, Filip K??bczyk wrote: > Hello, > > I have two points: 1. I'm curious what are stats regarding > nationality/country of attendees. 2. I've noticed that together > with this year edition there are 13 EuroPythons, where: * 2 of them > were located in former Eastern Bloc countries * 11 of them were > located in Western Countries > > Having in mind that there is gap disproportion between wealth level > of Western and Eastern Europe I'm curious if EPS or anybody > feeling responsible for EuroPython thinks about addressing that > problem in future? > > In my opinion the conference that calls itself EuroPython (and for > example not WestEuroPython) should take that into account. > > Regards, Filip > > PS. HINT: organizing conference in less wealthy countries usually > (but not always) also results in lower conference costs, in result > making it more accessible to those with "small pockets". > I was wondering the same. Diversity in a cultural and geographic sense is important. Especially in such a cosmopolitan & multicultural place like Europe. N. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTTl4/AAoJEP0qBPaYQbb6ewgH/3wxtEGqRQ48KjNYRndp/ZeV vkDTFbKOuh1LqXWb6iElSIagIFkkO2RIUQYSqn6p5NRfLw/nZslhnvYxP8+FWTPp 6olOz1e3bc3wF1UlS/W7YuSodAl5AHHLvC9QBr3HD8P3Ze198EoKP6qvO0faXKy8 v7eqg/mbxpu3gzvOIBFnFKweSX1mCqiwfUEaNQE6HQISoQciSfmHgKubDP5AP2Ae 20X7rbpWDJC7X9UjLpUiOGk3sVCKzyAH+SmsFa81LYs6JJg6y1g8klQsZRfHDlsS g3gSDAFMiDwtxuHPn4cmatm9XYHde5YP1WL2naYNF5uolJvMZ7h851R9zEBwlU4= =KOBB -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Diversity of attendees
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 16/04/14 11:43, Andreas Jung wrote: > > Am 16.04.2014 um 06:41 schrieb Nicholas H.Tollervey > : > >> >> >> I was wondering the same. Diversity in a cultural and geographic >> sense is important. Especially in such a cosmopolitan & >> multicultural place like Europe. >> > > Diversity (where women are one part of the medal) is a process and > can not be realized by-law or by-order. > > Andreas > Not sure I understand what you're saying. I'm certainly *not* suggesting some legal or mandatory process be used to enforce something or another. N. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTTl+PAAoJEP0qBPaYQbb6u2sH/015swKCW6PIXXipSIBBdzFB 57fIflqyI6wjleJd7aeGoKWtnbfyc+HwID1YteQ3rBlgEdgzipwxP33whRhsVW/s F510bJ7K3eJzFLW907BCcfe2JOeq5/jebBymIhWvRXHrRPs5HLMpR1EUxYSBJOdz b76x3DS11HtVqjkAIJNO/0sSLwjMr8YbMAL7Ib6SmbgnfKZOOgzLgHNDMzTphu02 Q2v8TxdOADyOYK7vLGVEy5eBVGaNt28Ja4ldrQVMrEvfSZRTsFUhUcwHpcQVXkGj b8mfmdjtw74DTBAuYp77nQ+AYcFdZamvg3Bb3KzI7d2skyVMG1xrSvQVdiq+4yM= =5IL8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Diversity of attendees
Am 16.04.2014 um 06:41 schrieb Nicholas H.Tollervey : > > > I was wondering the same. Diversity in a cultural and geographic sense > is important. Especially in such a cosmopolitan & multicultural place > like Europe. > Diversity (where women are one part of the medal) is a process and can not be realized by-law or by-order. Andreas ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Lack of diversity within selected talks
On 04/16/2014 01:24 AM, Laura Creighton wrote: In a message of Wed, 16 Apr 2014 00:26:59 +0200, Martijn Faassen writes: * Considering whether we want a self-selected democracy for anonymously selecting talks based on individual merits, or whether we want to involve other methods too. Say a smaller group of people that looks at the overall balance of things. I've never seen a relationship between the quality of the proposal and the quality of the talk. That's another problem, yes. That's also why I think looking at the overall balance of talks can be a good thing. > The thing I care most about is _who_ is presenting the thing. > > To give a concrete example -- Armin Rigo isn't a particularly good > speaker. It's not important in this discussion, but I beg to disagree. Armin, being Armin, has a speaking style all his own, but it's highly entertaining to me to watch him speak and he clearly has a sense of humor that helps make his talks engaging to people. He's been known to write some fairly bad proposals, as well. It would be extremely simple to find somebody who writes English better than Armin does, who speaks with less of an accent, and who organises his or her talks in such a way that people who are not at all familiar with the topic do not feel excluded. And I don't care. While it could be nice to have a hypothetical PyPy talk by such a speaker, if due to time and space constraints, I can only have one, I want the one by Armin. I _always_ want the one by one of the principal developers of the program involved, regardless of their merit as a speaker, because what I want to hear is whatever the principal developers of the thing want to show and tell me, precisely because of who they are. I think that's part of being in a community; we know each other and want to hear from each other. It's an important aspect of EuroPython, indeed. If fostering community is part of the mission of the conference, then it should support that. And I think it does that quite well. I see though that anonymous speaker selection paradoxically risks pushing that real desire to see the principal developers speak about their project into the "underground", which is where accusations of "old boys network" actually seem more plausible than if this speakers were known in the open during selection. But fostering the community also can mean trying to get new people involved, with different perspectives and different backgrounds and different ideas. I believe that can enrich the community and make the conference more inspiring. So we should balance the two. Again, that's why looking at the whole mixture of talks is a good thing, besides just looking at each individual talk. Regards, Martijn ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] R: Re: conference length
On 04/16/2014 11:12 AM, John Pinner wrote: Hello All, On 15 April 2014 20:46, roberto.polli wrote: Right time to discuss: no. Right Place to discuss: probably yes. In fact : NO! The correct place to discuss this is the europython-improve list, which was established specifically to discuss improving EuroPython, keeping the EP list free of contention. I saw that list, but it's a private list that seems to be for EuroPython organizers (certainly not me) and active volunteers. Does just giving feedback on this make me an "active volunteer"? I don't think so. Anyway, I don't want to be caught up in a procedural quagmire where I'm told I'm sending stuff to the wrong list, and I might need to send stuff to a private mailing lists where only organizers are able to respond to me and possibly is not used anyway. Can we keep this kind of stuff out of this particular discussion please, and have it elsewhere? Regards, Martijn ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] conference length
On 04/16/2014 10:24 AM, Tom Viner wrote: For those who prefer a shorter Python conference, may I recommend the excellent PyConUK in September (and presumably other "national" conferences - in quotes because there's a good spread of nationalities present in my experience). See http://2013.pyconuk.org/#Agenda for an idea of the schedule from last year. And see http://pyconuk.org/ for this year where you can now book tickets - some early birding may still be possible! Yes, I was already considering going to more national conferences. I was at PyCon DE last year and enjoyed myself! But I do like EuroPython where I can meet up with a lot of old friends again. Regards, Martijn ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Diversity of attendees
Hey, On 04/16/2014 11:56 AM, Filip Kłębczyk wrote: > Having in mind that there is gap disproportion between wealth level of > Western and Eastern Europe I'm curious if EPS or anybody feeling > responsible for EuroPython thinks about addressing that problem in future? You're suggesting active outreach to Python organizations in Eastern Europe to see whether they want to host EuroPython? I think that's a good idea. Regards, Martijn ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Diversity of attendees
Am 16.04.2014 um 08:27 schrieb Martijn Faassen : > Hey, > > On 04/16/2014 11:56 AM, Filip Kłębczyk wrote: > > Having in mind that there is gap disproportion between wealth level of > > Western and Eastern Europe I'm curious if EPS or anybody feeling > > responsible for EuroPython thinks about addressing that problem in future? > > You're suggesting active outreach to Python organizations in Eastern Europe > to see whether they want to host EuroPython? I think that’s > a good idea. > The selection process has been always open afaik. You need enough people doing the work, you need to write a proposal and submit it if there is an EPS call for the next conference. As far as I recall for there was a proposal by the polish Python community for the 2014/15 conference. There had been conferences e.g. like the Plone conference (Python-based CMS) many years ago in Budapest, several people already added the RuPy in Poland over the last years…I think there is nobody say „we don’t want conferences in Eastern Europe“….it is a question of consensus among the local python user groups in each country in order to do such an effort. For the sake on completeness: the 2014 Python conference in Ukraine had to be cancelled for well-known reasons. Andreas ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Lack of diversity within selected talks
Hi Lynn,
i am just one member of the programme committee of EP2014 but would like
to share some information and my own perspective on the discussion and
issues. We hopefully can arrange a committee meeting soon and can
conclude on the path forward, also taking your suggestions into account.
So this mail is no official answer or so but hope it contributes to
clearing things up a bit.
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 02:28 -0700, Lynn Root wrote:
> To the EuroPython organizers, talk reviewers, and community at large,
>
> For those of you who do not know me, I am a board member of the Python
> Software Foundation, the founder and leader of PyLadies San Francisco,
> and an engineer at Spotify. I have been a speaker at the last two
> EuroPythons, with 3 talks last year, and a keynote the year before.
I enjoyed your talks, also the DNS one a few days ago :)
> I see that the list of preliminarily talks are publicly available. Side
> stepping my issue with lack of communication to proposers of talks at
> large, I am writing to bring light to the lack of diversity of the
> current list of talks, and propose some action items.
>
> There is how I understand things as they are. Please correct me if I am
> wrong.
>
> - talk selection was/is being done blindly, as in no identifying
> information about the speaker is revealed
Yes, about 250 reviewers went through the 300 submissions and we
got 3-5 reviews on most. The reviewers could not see other reviewers
comments/evaluations in the first round. And they could not see
authors or genders or countries. Which doesn't mean that gender-bias
doesn't take place otherwise, of course.
> - there are very little women on that preliminary talk list slated to
> speak
yes but there are still 50 free slots awaiting allocation. The
currently published talks include only those which received "+1"s but no
negative ("-0" or "-1"). The others we call the "conflicted talks" and
there are many that got several positive but one negative vote. They
were not included in the first published list.
> - there are multiple selected speakers slated to give multiple selected
> talks
I am not sure how many "multi-talkers" we actually have. We should be able
to find out shortly. FWIW i submitted three talks myself and one got accepted
in the first round. Of the two not-accepted ones there was one that made it
to Pycon 2014 surviving harsher competition. On the other hand, one
talk i gave as a well-received keynote at EP2013 was not accepted at all
for Pycon 2014. So judging from my personal experience, I believe we
have quite some randomness in talk selection at python conferences.
But that's more of a general sidenote.
> If you do not find a problem with item #2 and #3, please read this
> article [1] about importance of diversity in a technical field.
I also do see a problem particularly in #2.
> Here are my suggestions to rectify this issue:
> - limit speakers to only give one talk. Yes this means going back on the
> original acceptance.
I am certainly fine with asking multi-talkers to cut down. If the programme
committee revokes already accepted talks is a different question. I'd like
to see how many cases we actually have.
Do you know, btw, if Pycon 2014 employed a "one talk only" policy?
It seemed to me that some people gave 2 or maybe three talks at Pycon.
And personally, i wouldn't totally rule out the possibility of allowing
more than one talk but such cases should be considered explicitely
and carefully.
> - reopen CfP and reach out to PyLadies globally to help get the word
> out. As one of the main leaders of the global organization, I know this
> did not happen originally.
Working with PyLadies sounds like a great idea and it's bad we missed
out on this so far. I'd like to discuss the idea of doing an additional
specialized CFP in the context of the still remaining question of the 50
to-be-allocated slots. Obviously a full re-open of the CFP would be
quite a challenge, also given that eastern and vacations are quickly
approaching.
> - re-review the talks. Give preference or help for those who would be
> first time speakers. First time speakers may need far more help writing
> a proposal tailored to the EuroPython audience. As reviewers, you have
> an understanding of the EP community and should help pull up new
> speakers.
For the 50 remaining slots i'd like to increase focus on "does this talk
help to grow the community" with a particular focus on diversity. As a
secondary measure, looking through the already accepted talks might be
feasible but i hope we don't need to consider reverting acceptance
against a proposers will.
> - related to #2, and #3, have open office hours or create general
> availability during the time that the CfP is reopened to help those who
> want it craft a good proposal.
> - select talks for the remainder of the program with the context of the
> preliminarily talks in mind.
right, that's what I'd like to aim for.
> I understand tha
Re: [EuroPython] Diversity of attendees
As far as I remember (and it's been a while) there was a lack of proposals in general at least in the beginning. So whoever was serious about organising EP could do it. Has this changed over the past years and is there any reason to believe that proposals are being approved or rejected according to geografy? (I wouldn't think so, but that's just me.) On 16 Apr 2014 15:43, "Andreas Jung" wrote: > > Am 16.04.2014 um 08:27 schrieb Martijn Faassen : > > > Hey, > > > > On 04/16/2014 11:56 AM, Filip Kłębczyk wrote: > > > Having in mind that there is gap disproportion between wealth level of > > > Western and Eastern Europe I'm curious if EPS or anybody feeling > > > responsible for EuroPython thinks about addressing that problem in > future? > > > > You're suggesting active outreach to Python organizations in Eastern > Europe to see whether they want to host EuroPython? I think that’s > > a good idea. > > > > The selection process has been always open afaik. You need enough people > doing the work, you need to write a proposal and submit it if there is an > EPS call for the next conference. As far as I recall for there was a > proposal > by the polish Python community for the 2014/15 conference. There had been > conferences e.g. like the Plone conference (Python-based CMS) many years > ago in Budapest, several people already added the RuPy in Poland over > the last years…I think there is nobody say „we don’t want conferences in > Eastern Europe“….it is a question of consensus among the local python user > groups > in each country in order to do such an effort. For the sake on > completeness: the > 2014 Python conference in Ukraine had to be cancelled for well-known > reasons. > > Andreas > > ___ > EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Diversity of attendees
W dniu 16.04.2014 14:43, Andreas Jung pisze: The selection process has been always open afaik. Then where are all the proposals shown that were sent for 2014 and 2015 hosting? Where are the criteria that decided German proposal was better than the one from Belgium. In my opinion process is not open and transparent. You need enough people doing the work, you need to write a proposal and submit it if there is an EPS call for the next conference. As far as I recall for there was a proposal by the polish Python community for the 2014/15 conference. There wasn't for a good reason. I recommend you to talk to Marc-Andre Lemburg, maybe he can explain you how the situation looked like. Also I recommend you reading the mails on this mailing list since June 2012. There had been conferences e.g. like the Plone conference (Python-based CMS) many years ago in Budapest, several people already added the RuPy in Poland over the last years… I think there is nobody say „we don’t want conferences in Eastern Europe“….it is a question of consensus among the local python user groups in each country in order to do such an effort. For the sake on completeness: the 2014 Python conference in Ukraine had to be cancelled for well-known reasons. Andreas, I think we are talking about Europython here, not about being happy that other conferences take place in Eastern Europe. Regards, Filip ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Lack of diversity within selected talks
Hey Holger, Thanks for your answer, it certainly helped clear up things for me about what was going on with talk selection - that as much as 50 slots were remaining was not clear, for instance. I also agree that the double blind selection process does not fit the goals of EuroPython so much -- I already gave feedback on that elsewhere in this thread. I complained earlier that publishing this half-baked schedule was rather frustrating for those of us who submitted talks but whose talks were not selected. We're in some kind of limbo where we don't know whether the talk is rejected or accepted, which feels rather odd. On the other hand, if the half baked schedule triggered a rebalancing for diversity that otherwise might not have happened I'd call it a good thing after all. Regards, Martijn ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Diversity of attendees
W dniu 16.04.2014 15:34, Aistė Kesminaitė-Jankauskienė pisze: As far as I remember (and it's been a while) there was a lack of proposals in general at least in the beginning. Then read this mail: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/2013-January/008195.html Learn a bit how process was delayed and then how unexpectedly requirements were announced. I'm tired to talk again, that there were serious issues in process of choosing 2014/2015 organizers. Regards, Filip ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Diversity of attendees
Filip, what are you trying to achieve? I see a lot of negativity and pointing fingers. My email clearly said - in the begining. What is your point with all this, please tell. On 16 Apr 2014 16:59, "Filip Kłębczyk" wrote: > W dniu 16.04.2014 15:34, Aistė Kesminaitė-Jankauskienė pisze: > >> As far as I remember (and it's been a while) there was a lack of >> proposals in general at least in the beginning. >> > > Then read this mail: > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/2013-January/008195.html > > Learn a bit how process was delayed and then how unexpectedly requirements > were announced. I'm tired to talk again, that there were serious issues in > process of choosing 2014/2015 organizers. > > Regards, > Filip > ___ > EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Diversity of attendees
W dniu 16.04.2014 16:16, Aistė Kesminaitė-Jankauskienė pisze: Filip, what are you trying to achieve? I see a lot of negativity and pointing fingers. My email clearly said - in the begining. What is your point with all this, please tell. The topic was about future EuroPythons and that maybe more should be done in Eastern Europe. You stated: "So whoever was serious about organising EP could do it. " I just disagree with that statement, by looking on my own negative experiences and EPS knows why I have right to have negative experiences. The question is do we want to dwell again into that or talk about future EuroPythons as intended in the first mail? I prefer the latter. Regards, Filip ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Diversity of attendees
I recently organized a conference in Budapest (Write The Docs EU). I can confirm that it's a great city to hold a conference in. Cheap lodging/food, lots of fun local culture outside of the conference, and easy to get to from all over Europe. Also, I felt safe and welcomed there as a native English speaker. Most importantly, there is a Budapest-based company, Prezi, who has an amazing events staff that help us organize our conference, has organized a number of smaller conference in their own venue (~100-150 people), and is also organizing a much larger conference (Craft Conf) in a much larger venue (~500-1000 people, IIRC). They could definitely help EuroPython succeed there. I'd be glad to put the EuroPython organizing team in touch with the Prezi event staff to discuss the possibility of hosting EuroPython 2015 in Budapest. Thanks, Troy On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 7:24 AM, Filip Kłębczyk wrote: > W dniu 16.04.2014 16:16, Aistė Kesminaitė-Jankauskienė pisze: > > Filip, what are you trying to achieve? I see a lot of negativity and >> pointing fingers. My email clearly said - in the begining. >> What is your point with all this, please tell. >> > > The topic was about future EuroPythons and that maybe more should be done > in Eastern Europe. > > You stated: > > "So whoever was serious about organising EP could do it. " > I just disagree with that statement, by looking on my own negative > experiences and EPS knows why I have right to have negative experiences. > The question is do we want to dwell again into that or talk about future > EuroPythons as intended in the first mail? I prefer the latter. > > > Regards, > Filip > > ___ > EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Diversity of attendees
Am 16.04.2014 um 09:52 schrieb Filip Kłębczyk : > W dniu 16.04.2014 14:43, Andreas Jung pisze: >> The selection process has been always open afaik. > > Then where are all the proposals shown that were sent for 2014 and 2015 > hosting? Where are the criteria that decided German proposal was better than > the one from Belgium. In my opinion process is not open and transparent. Ask EPS. > >> You need enough people >> doing the work, you need to write a proposal and submit it if there is an >> EPS call for the next conference. As far as I recall for there was a proposal >> by the polish Python community for the 2014/15 conference. > > There wasn't for a good reason. I recommend you to talk to Marc-Andre > Lemburg, maybe he can explain you how the situation looked like. Also I > recommend you reading the mails on this mailing list since June 2012. Please what? > >> There had been >> conferences e.g. like the Plone conference (Python-based CMS) many years >> ago in Budapest, several people already added the RuPy in Poland over >> the last years… I think there is nobody say „we don’t want conferences in >> Eastern Europe“….it is a question of consensus among the local python user >> groups >> in each country in order to do such an effort. For the sake on completeness: >> the >> 2014 Python conference in Ukraine had to be cancelled for well-known >> reasons. > > Andreas, I think we are talking about Europython here, not about being happy > that other conferences take place in Eastern Europe. No idea what your point is. I suggest you speak to EPS directly. Andreas ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
Re: [EuroPython] Diversity of attendees
On 16/04/14 18:22, Troy Howard wrote: I recently organized a conference in Budapest (Write The Docs EU). I can confirm that it's a great city to hold a conference in. Cheap lodging/food, lots of fun local culture outside of the conference, and easy to get to from all over Europe. Also, I felt safe and welcomed there as a native English speaker. Most importantly, there is a Budapest-based company, Prezi, who has an amazing events staff that help us organize our conference, has organized a number of smaller conference in their own venue (~100-150 people), and is also organizing a much larger conference (Craft Conf) in a much larger venue (~500-1000 people, IIRC). They could definitely help EuroPython succeed there. I'd be glad to put the EuroPython organizing team in touch with the Prezi event staff to discuss the possibility of hosting EuroPython 2015 in Budapest. Thanks, Troy Troy, While Budapest would be an amazing location for EuroPython you have the process backwards - The local python community in the host city becomes the EuroPython organising team if the produce the accepted proposal - there is no central team that takes EuroPython on tour. Gadget/Steve ___ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
