EV digest 6944
EV Digest 6944 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: VOLTS vs AMPS by Joseph Tahbaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Carbon Fiber Batteries by David Dymaxion [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: Ultimate magnetic motor design, CVT, controllers by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) Custom Gears by Rob Hogenmiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Re: Ultimate magnetic motor design, CVT, controllers by Jack Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) firefly batteries? by Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) Re: VOLTS vs AMPS by Rob Hogenmiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) RE: DC/AC converter (EV to Grid/Home) by Pat Galliher [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) RE: DC/AC converter (EV to Grid/Home) by Pat Galliher [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) Re: firefly batteries? by Joseph Tahbaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) Re: VOLTS vs AMPS by Joseph Tahbaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Re: Custom Gears by Roland Wiench [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) Re: VOLTS vs AMPS by Christopher Robison [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) Motor for mower by Tad Coles [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) Re: How is AGM battery perfomance impacted by orientation? by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) Re: Cheap balancer for A123 pack by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) RE: Ultimate magnetic motor design by Dale Ulan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18) Re: VOLTS vs AMPS RE: Make It by Ian Hooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19) Re: Make it by Dan Frederiksen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20) Re: Cheap balancer for A123 pack by Bill Dube [EMAIL PROTECTED] 21) RE: whats the difference between gearing a motor for speed vs distance by lyle sloan [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- Well, sort of, not really. This is my understanding... Amps x Volts = Watts What are watts? Watt is power, NOT energy! What are amps? Well, amps are how quickly the electricity moves. More amps, which means the electricity is moving faster, which means more watts (power) Now to describe voltage you'll need to understand something else first. A Negative charge and a positive charge attract, right? Well the attraction between a negative and positive is voltage. That electrical attracting force is voltage. More voltage, more force, more watts. (power) And when you multiply the two together you get watts! More amps means more power, and more voltage means more power too. Now, more amps basically creates torque, which is good for acceleration. Using more voltage basically means more rpm (rotation per minute) which is better for achieving a high speed. So basically... amps= torquevoltage=rpmamps x volts=watts AMPS seem to be how long the vehicle can go Amps-hours is how far the vehicle can go, NOT amps. An amp-hour is one amp running for one hour. That's all I know about amp-hours really. (Well, there's Peukert's Exponent but that's something else.) To everyone out there: Please correct any mistakes I made. We can't have electrical blasphemy on this mailing list! On 6/24/07, Rob Hogenmiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So far I've come to the conclusion that VOLTS is the major power contributor, the higher the VOLTS the more power the motor can make the vehicle go. AMPS seem to be how long the vehicle can go, the more AMPS the batteries have the longer the vehicle can drive before being charged. There also seems to be some correlation with the AMPS in regards to power. Does anyone have any quick comments or suggestive reading. God bless ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- I was pretty excited when I first saw these, hoping they were like the firefly batteries. Alas, carbon fiber refers to the decorative case. The specs seem pretty good. Disclaimer: I have no financial interest in their success or failure. http://www.brailleauto.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=16idproduct=6 Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- I have just salvaged a motor like you described. Its an Intramat mac 115B servo motor, Its fairly heavy at about 75lbs or so. From what I can tell it has 230V stator coils, PM armature, built in cooling motor, tach and encoder. Continuous current at 66 amps with peaks at 205 amps, unless the fan is not working. The bad news is its a 2000 RPM motor. So it seems powerful enough to drive a small EV but what can I drive it with? Must I use the encoder with a custom inverter or can I use a variable freq like the MES-DEA 400? Maybe its just better suited for a generator of some sort. It just looked too pretty to be in the landfill. Oh and unfortunately someone got to the inverter it came with before I got there. Rick Miller In a message dated 6/24/2007 1:23:12 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL
EV digest 6945
EV Digest 6945 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Make it by Dan Frederiksen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Re: Manly EV's, RE: EV are for girls blog, In Training, again. by Bob Rice [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: Make it by Ian Hooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) RE: Custom Gears by Alan Brinkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) RE: VOLTS vs AMPS by Mike Willmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) regarding the Solectria Sunrise by gulabrao ingle [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) RE: VOLTS vs AMPS by Mike Willmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) Re: VOLTS vs AMPS by Dan Frederiksen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) RE: Make it by Mike Willmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) Re: Make it by Dan Frederiksen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) Re: vroombox and EV ? by Florian Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Understanding Motor Specs Torque by Rob Hogenmiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) Re: Manly EV's, RE: EV are for girls blog by Peter VanDerWal [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) 55 MPH Part II by Rob Hogenmiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) Re: Understanding Motor Specs Torque by Roland Wiench [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) Re: Manly EV's, RE: EV are for girls blog by Tom Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- I feel the same way. a cheaper controller certainly can be done. a lot cheaper a sub 500$ zilla1k equivalent if someone foxconn'ed it (mainstream mass production, not typical b2b pricing mentality) unfortunately those with experience don't want to take the 60 minutes it takes for them to design a simple practical circuit to this effect so others have to do the much greater task of getting training and experience first and then doing it some few will help out a little bit if asked about something isolated but most here will rather fight it Dan Phelps wrote: Sorry I live in your country and have different ideas than you.. Maybe you should burn me at the stake like a witch for thinking. Mitchell ---Original Message--- From: Peter VanDerWal Date: 6/24/2007 11:04:32 AM To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: Make it Imagination is the key for discovering new ideas. Making a cheaper controller is NOT a new idea. If it was practical to Make a controller that was significantly cheaper than existing ones, then The Chinese would be flooding the market with cheap controllers. Hell, they are quite capable of ripping off existing designs and copying Them. Their labor costs are cheaper, so they should be able to save a Bundle right? But they aren't, so ask yourself, Why not? Because the main reason the controllers are so expensive is because they Use expensive components. If you can discover a way to build them cheaper, awsome let us know. But if you are going to come here with the attitude that you are going to Solve this because you have more immagination than we do (or the rest of The world), please save the attitude until you have a working prototype to Display. Asking questions is great, so is learning from others. Just leave the Attitude at home please. Gee I would have thought that Imagination was the key . You have to dream a dream and then make it real... It cant be done because nobody have one it.. This is your song? Sounds like the world would still be flat if that was the case.. Only the rich and those who study at the university are cable of doing any thing hunn.. Nessesity is the mother of invention.. Which would go to reason that if a cheaper control; Can be made it will be by somebody that don't have one yet. Relax my friend and dream a little Mitchell ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 06/24/07 02:42:02 To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: Make it Some things have change a lot in 100 years. Going 15 miles an hour was fast In 1907. When you increase the speed to today's standards it requires much Higher Ah rate from the batteries. This is not a fair comparison getting there Faster is not done with the same amount of energy. If it was inexpensive to make the controller and could be done for what you Feel is a fair price someone would have done it. As pointed out below it is always more expensive to make anything in units Of one. Don Blazer Which is what I am doing asking questions.. How ever .. The way I see it .. Very little has changed in the E V area if the first car made 100 years ago Could get 40 to 100 miles on a charge ,, And I am not thinking better .. I Am thinking cheaper.. Which is better to me. We will see maybe I will have Nothing .. But it sure don't sound like shit to me .. A switch that turns on And off for 700 bucks.. Mitchell ---Original Message--- From: damon henry Date: 06/23/07 21:39:04 To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: Make it Just be aware that there have been tens of thousands of people using their
EV digest 6946
EV Digest 6946 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: 55 MPH Part II by Tom Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Re: 55 MPH Part II by Peter VanDerWal [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: Understanding Motor Specs Torque by Peter VanDerWal [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) RE: vroombox and EV ? by Garret Maki [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Re: VOLTS vs AMPS by Christopher Robison [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) RE: Make it by Garret Maki [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) Re: Carbon Fiber Batteries by Evan Tuer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) RE: Make it by keith vansickle [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) FW: Regen with Sevcon and Etek by Garret Maki [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) How low can you go? by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) Re: How low can you go? by Christopher Robison [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Re: DC/AC converter (EV to Grid/Home) by Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) Re: DC/AC converter (EV to Grid/Home) by Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) Understanding my motor (ADC L91 X91 6.7 motors revisited) by Richard Acuti [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) Re: DC/AC converter (EV to Grid/Home) by Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) FW: Regen with Sevcon and Etek by Garret Maki [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) Re: DC/AC converter (EV to Grid/Home) by Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18) Re: Ultimate magnetic motor design by Lee Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19) Re: VOLTS vs AMPS RE: Make It by Lee Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20) Re: regarding the Solectria Sunrise by Lee Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] 21) Re: FW: Regen with Sevcon and Etek by Jeff Major [EMAIL PROTECTED] 22) Re: Make it by Lee Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- On Mon, 2007-06-25 at 07:30 -0500, Rob Hogenmiller wrote: From what I've been reading it takes about 60 ft/lbs of torque to maintain an average vehicle at 55mph. Or around 5-10HP. That sounds a little low. Maybe for a small slippery car. I've noticed that there inexpensive motors that produce the HP ratings no problem, but from what I'm reading the won't produce the torque requirements, for example this motor meets the HP rating but not the torque, http://www.electricmotorsport.com/PARTS/Perm.htm What other motors might I be eyeballing that could maintain 55mph? ( I will have the capability to use two motors, but prefer not too if not necessary.) How big are your wheels? Will you use direct drive or will you have a reduction drive? Remember the differential on most cars has around 3:1 reduction. Assuming 3:1 reduction reduces your required motor torque by a factor of 3 and increases the required motor speed by the same factor. Basically, work out your required power at 55mph, use your wheel radius to find the wheel torque and wheel speed, apply by any reduction ratio and you'll get a motor torque and speed. Then go shopping. If what you really want is 60ft/lbs and 10HP, then you could look at the Siemens 1L5118: http://www.metricmind.com/motor.htm but be aware that the maximum ratings quoted there will have quite short time limits before the system overheats. I only point you there because I had that page open. A motor designed for high torque, low speed operation would suit you better. ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- From what I've been reading it takes about 60 ft/lbs of torque to maintain an average vehicle at 55mph. Or around 5-10HP. HP = torque x RPM If the motor has the HP to maintain the speed, but the torque is low, that just means that the RPM is too high. Gear the RPM down and the torque goes up by the same factor. I.e. 1 HP = 5252 ft/lbs per minute. That would either be 5252 ft/lbs of torque at 1 RPM, or 1 ft/lb of torque at 5252 RPM or 100 ft/lbs of torque at 52.52 RPM So let's say your vehicle requires 8hp to go 55mph and that this works out to 60 ft/lbs of torque at 700 rpm wheels. Let's say your motor 8hp, but it's at 10 ft/lbs of torque and 4200 RPM. What you need is a transmission (belt drive, chain drive, gears, etc.) with a 6:1 reduction ratio. That will reduce the RPM from 4200 to 700 and increase your torque from 10 ft/lbs to 60 ft/lbs. 8HP into the transmission, 8HP out. The universe is happy and everything works out. I've noticed that there inexpensive motors that produce the HP ratings no problem, but from what I'm reading the won't produce the torque requirements, for example this motor meets the HP rating but not the torque, http://www.electricmotorsport.com/PARTS/Perm.htm What other motors might I be eyeballing that could maintain 55mph? ( I will have the capability to use two motors, but prefer not too if not necessary.) I have a near unlimited run to reach 55mph so it's not important that I have a motor that help me reach 55mph quickly (I'll be using a gas engine to propel me to speed), I'm hoping to find one the will help me maintain that speed, to do some testing of theories on a budget.
EV digest 6947
EV Digest 6947 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: How low can you go? by Lee Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) RE: regarding the Solectria Sunrise by Beth Silverman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: Understanding my motor (ADC L91 X91 6.7 motors revisited) by Lee Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) Re: regarding the Solectria Sunrise by Evan Tuer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Re: 55 MPH Part III by Phil Marino [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) Selling or buying an EV by bruce parmenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) RE: Selling or buying an EV by Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) Re: regarding the Solectria Sunrise by David Roden (Akron OH USA) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) Vectrix demo by Lawrence Rhodes [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) 1200 Raptor help ! by Jeff Mccabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) Re: VOLTS vs AMPS RE: Make It by Ian Hooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Re: vroombox and EV ? by john fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) Re: Make it by Eric Poulsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) Re: Understanding my motor (ADC L91 X91 6.7 motors revisited) by Jeff Major [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) Re: regarding the Solectria Sunrise by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) Re: regarding the Solectria Sunrise by Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) Re: 55 MPH Part III Oops - equation error by Phil Marino [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18) Re: FW: Regen with Sevcon and Etek by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19) More folks converting cars to electric... by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20) New EV controller to hit the market by Michael Barkley [EMAIL PROTECTED] 21) Re: VOLTS vs AMPS by Victor Tikhonov [EMAIL PROTECTED] 22) Re: 55 MPH Part III by Victor Tikhonov [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23) Re: Selling or buying an EV by John G. Lussmyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24) Re: vroombox and EV ? by GWMobile [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Optima data sheet indicates that 10.5 volts is the cut off low voltage for the reserve capacity. Should that voltage also be considered the maximum “sag” voltage during a high current draw regardless of the state of charge or sag time? Yes; 10.5v is a good safe cutoff voltage regardless of current. You are very unlikely to reverse a cell if you don't go below this. If you *know* all cells are matched, and are trying to produce big numbers for a data sheet, you can discharge below this point. Battery manufacturers do this on their data sheets to inflate the amphour ratings. The real danger is that when a cell goes completely dead, it develops high resistance. The other cells in series with it, that still have charge, will force current to keep flowing through the dead cell. This high current and high resistance cause severe heating in the dead cell. The plates will warp, it will boil its electrolyte, and things will get very bad very fast! So, the 10.5v limit comes from the assumption that 1 cell out of the 6 in a 12v battery has gone dead. The 5 good ones are still delivering 2v each (2 x 5 = 10v) and there is just 0.5v left across the dead one (1 x 0.5v = 0.5v), so there is 10.5v across the battery as a whole. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in--Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Solectria is not out of business -- we merged with Azure Dynamics in 2005. We are still at the same building where Solectria moved in 2001, outside of Boston, Massachusetts. Beth Silverman *** -Original Message- From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 10:53 AM To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: regarding the Solectria Sunrise gulabrao ingle wrote: I was reading the other day of a car known as the Solectria Sunrise, but surprisingly there is no information available about the specifications of the car or how it could get 375 miles on a single charge. Solectria is out of business, so most of what you find is old information. Where can I get detailed information, blue prints, technical specifications or even some hi-res photos of this car? From me! :-) I'm heading a team that is making a kit-car version of the Sunrise. Are there any owners of this car on the list at present? Yes, a number were sold to individuals. Stephen Taylor's is on the web at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/655 What was so special about the construction of this car that it could get 375 miles on a charge? The Sunrise is an example of what Amory Lovins calls a hypercar. The entire chassis and body are carbon fiber composites, very light and strong, weighing about 400 lbs. It was designed from scratch as an EV, and so avoided the usual losses and inefficiencies of the make do parts you find in
EV digest 6948
EV Digest 6948 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) EVgrin - RAVolt takes first EV trip by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Re: VOLTS vs AMPS by MIKE WILLMON [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: 55 MPH Part III by Phil Marino [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) Re: Over-volted ADC: Warranty issue by Chuck Hursch [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Re: firefly batteries? by Lawrence Rhodes [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) Re: Selling or buying an EV by Tom Shay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) Re: 55 MPH Part II by Eric Poulsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) Re: vroombox and EV ? by Eric Poulsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) Re: firefly batteries? by Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) Re: Selling or buying an EV by John G. Lussmyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) Re: Selling or buying an EV by Lawrence Rhodes [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Re: Cheap balancer for A123 pack by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) Controler by Phelps [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) Re: 55 MPH Part III by Victor Tikhonov [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) Re: Controler by Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) how to control my separately excited DC motor by Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) Re: Controler by Phelps [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18) RE: Cheap balancer for A123 pack by Roger Stockton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19) Re: Cheap balancer for A123 pack by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20) Re: Controler by Roland Wiench [EMAIL PROTECTED] 21) Re: Controler by Phelps [EMAIL PROTECTED] 22) Re: FW: Regen with Sevcon and Etek by [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- All, I know the list loves good news: the RAVolt made her maiden voyage over the weekend! YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUv3wZQTcQE Rob H RAVolt.com EValbum 995 ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- You (and Dan) are correct. What I meant to state is that the charge flows near the speed of light and thus carries to the conclusion that Amps (or electrical current) is a measure of the amount of charge that flows past a certain point in 1 second. A coulomb of charge being equal to that of 6.023^23 electrons. I didn't mean to get into the tricky details of electron drift, which as you say can be on the order of mm/sec. The analogy that works for me is that of the little contraption with the steel balls suspended in a straight line from some string. Swing 1 ball out and let it go. It contacts the mass of other balls and (almost) instantly the Energy is transfered to the ball on the opposite end and it flies up into the air. Now the number of balls (analogy for the electrons) that move from one end of the line to the other is small (zero in this case). But the energy contained in the original ball has moved almost instantaneously. Without getting too technical but trying to remain technically correct, I meant to state that the propagation velocity of the charges remain nearly the same, at a high percentage of the speed of light, in a constant medium. Thanks for the correction. Mike, Anchorage, Ak. - Original Message - From: Victor Tikhonov [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:01 am Subject: Re: VOLTS vs AMPS To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu So you know, the speed at which electrons are moving in the conductoris a few millimeters per second. What you probably refer to is the time electric (or electromagnetic if AC) field propagation speed which makes electrons start moving - that is at light speed. Therefore you see light few miles away goes on as soon as you flip remote switch despite actual electrons moving few mm/sec. Not very accurate but obvious analogy is moving water in a pipe - assuming water is not compressible (which is almost he case), it can start flowing out of a mile long pipe as soon as you start pumping it in in the other end, though the rate of the water flow itself may be few inches per sec. Victor p.s. Without digging too deep, electrons themselves are not moving anywhere - their charge get carried from one to another and charge has no mass. If electrons were to move, the mass of conductor would have measurable weight change (you can cram in more than you take out but no one was able to detect any weight difference between charged and neutral conductor), not to mention that material itself would become different - copper with lost valence electrons is no longer really a copper... Mike Willmon wrote: To be technically correct electrons flow the same speed in a particular medium, which is some relatively high percentage of the speed of light. Amps (or electrical current) is a measure of the amount of electrons that flow past a certain point in 1 second. More amps is more electrons per second Joseph Tahbaz wrote: What are amps? Well, amps are how quickly the electricity moves. More amps, which means the electricity is
EV digest 6949
EV Digest 6949 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: firefly batteries? by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) RE: FW: Regen with Sevcon and Etek by Garret Maki [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) RE: FW: Regen with Sevcon and Etek by Garret Maki [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) Re: Controler by Peter VanDerWal [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Re: regarding the Solectria Sunrise by jerryd [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) Re: Controler by Andre' Blanchard [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) Re: EVgrin - RAVolt takes first EV trip by Joseph T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) Re: Understanding my motor (ADC L91 X91 6.7' motors revisited) by Peter VanDerWal [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) Data Logging for Zilla by Mark Eidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) Re: FW: Regen with Sevcon and Etek by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) Re: Make it by Dan Frederiksen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Re: Data Logging for Zilla by MIKE WILLMON [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) Re: VOLTS vs AMPS RE: Make It by Danny Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) Re: EVgrin - RAVolt takes first EV trip by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) Re: Controler by Phelps [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) TdS Report #10: Photos - West Philadelphia High School K1 Attack by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) Re: firefly batteries? by Joseph T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18) Re: Cheap balancer for A123 pack by Victor Tikhonov [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19) Re: Data Logging for Zilla by Joseph T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20) An Ebay find? by Tom Gocze [EMAIL PROTECTED] 21) Re: Manly EV's, RE: EV are for girls blog by Loni [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- Hello Lawrence One other difference then regular lead batteries. If I remember right they were to weigh like 1/4 the weight of lead acid batteries. I read about these at least 2 or 3 years ago. They even had the city they were in investing money into the new company. You would think they would have a battery out by now? Don Blazer In a message dated 6/25/2007 2:11:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If what they say is true there won't be any difference between them and regular lead batteries except capacity, durability reliability. I suspect they won't even need regulators. Lawrence Rhodes - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 8:22 PM Subject: firefly batteries? Wondering if anyone has any thoughts on these? I sort of have an in with the company to test some in my EV (probably about 5 or 10% probability, but that's better than no contacts)... but as of yet all I've seen is hype, not specs. BMS required? Discharge rate? cycles? Thermal management? Not even sure if they really exist yet I supposed I could ask my contact there, but I figured someone on this list might have already researched them more than I have. Z ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Unfortunately the pack on there now is shot with only a mile or two of range. I'll try to give this a try and report back. Thanks for the info. Garret -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 12:35 PM To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: FW: Regen with Sevcon and Etek Hello Garret If it is a smart controller it will not allow your batteries to be over charged during regen. Have you tried running down the batteries to say 60% and then try? Don Blazer ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Rick, I think I've got all this configured. I am using footbrake with a pot. Honestly considering the minor stopping force I am getting now, there is no advantage to the pot or over a switch, I am applying it full now with little affect so being able to taper the regen isn't useful yet. I'll try to drain the batteries more and try it again. I have the calibrator on loan right now, but need to return it soon. -Garret -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 4:39 PM To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: FW: Regen with Sevcon and Etek The Sevcon Millipak is a very smart controller. It is basically made for fork truck and Walkie operation which means it has features you'll never use. It is not really set up to be a electric vehicle controller but with all of the features it can work very well as one. Sevcon Millipak braking levels are set using personalities 1.01, 1.02 and 1.03. each is stated in %. 1.01 is direction braking, it is activated by going from forward to reverse. 1.02 is Neutral braking level, it is activated by going to drive to neutral. 1.03 Footbrake braking, for use if you have a footbrake configured. Choose 100% for maximum braking or lower for less braking. There are also
EV digest 6950
EV Digest 6950 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Make it by Danny Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) RE: Data Logging for Zilla by Claudio Natoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: Manly EV's, RE: EV are for girls blog by Loni [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) Re: regarding the Solectria Sunrise by Loni [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Re: firefly batteries? by Bruce Weisenberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) Re: Controler by Peter VanDerWal [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) Re: Make it by Rod Hower [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) Re: Manly EV's, RE: EV are for girls blog by Peter VanDerWal [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) Re: Make it by Dan Frederiksen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) RE: Make it by Mike Willmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) Re: Cheap balancer for A123 pack by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) RE: Data Logging for Zilla by Mike Willmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) Re: firefly batteries? by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) RE: FW: Regen with Sevcon and Etek by Garret Maki [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) Re: Make it by Dan Frederiksen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) Re: EVgrin - RAVolt takes first EV trip by Tony Hwang [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) Re: VOLTS vs AMPS RE: Make It by Lee Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- Well this isn't the first time controller design has come up. The microcontroller, or any method of generating PWM, is only one aspect of design and frankly it's small beans compared to the other parts of the design. We had a thread going for awhile where some of us were talking about the merits of a microcontroller and others die-hard against anything but a discrete component design. I had to point out periodically that the original poster on the subject seemed to have the missed the point that the greatest, most well-featured PWM generator ever only scratches the surface of controller design so all the debate was beside the point. The thermal issues, power stage, PCB design, and especially the gate driver are quite tough. Even case design and connecting a huge cable to a thin PCB are tricky. OK, not rocket science, many designers around who can make a complete design, simulate the transistor on computer and all. I don't want to dismiss it as an impossible task. An experienced designer still won't be able to make a cheap 1 amp ripple cap handle 10 amps and won't be able to get the 120A out of the 120A transistor with the 76A leads. But they can tell you what will work, and that will likely require much more expensive components that you have laid out. Danny Dan Frederiksen wrote: Granted I'm coming from the outside and many aspects are unknown to me but I'm no dummy and I still believe it can be done and you are just naysaying because the vision is not clear to you. It's true I was disappointed to hear of the need for high derating but I did already know about it in the small packages and I'm not sure I got a satisfactory answer from Lee whether derating was just as bad in the large IGBT modules like int-A and above. more importantly though the price did not triple as you suggest since Oatmeal has said that the IGBTs he uses for a zilla1k cost him 165$. so you're wrong. Similarly JB Straubel's ad hoc controller seemed very simple. the kind of simple I'm aiming for although I wouldn't be using 6 500A modules! A smart man could easily convey the needed knowledge to someone like me. Genius makes the complex simple. The reason I'm not so concerned with the microcontroller code is that I've already done some experimentation with an AVR. I am a computer scientist. It's a common fallacy to blindly trust those that went before.I've heard that the reality of flight was denied even years after the wright brothers flew. that despite public demonstrations the press wouldn't cover it because it was known to be impossible. don't be that monkey Dan Eric Poulsen wrote: Dan, You're not asking for a meatloaf recipe. To be frank, you're naivete in the area of power electronics (1) leads you to believe that controllers should be much cheaper than they really are. I'm personally developing a MOSFET based controller for my own use, but I am documenting my progress (nuancesystems.net). Right now, there isn't much there, but when I have a barely-working prototype up, I'll post more information than you can shake a stick at. Having said that, I've done many _MANY_ hours of research, and put many hours into my shop (garage) measuring, cutting, drilling, mounting, testing, etc. I've also put a lot of $$$ into it, and I'm realizing that while a lot of that money is a good investment (tools, etc), there are a lot of failed experiments that lead ... nowhere. And that's just for the mechanical layout. The task you're speaking of is not a 60 minute job. You _will_not_ find a simple and practical design for a 320KW controller. With regard to help out a little bit, it's a bit
