EV digest 6957
EV Digest 6957 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Ebay Fun Reading by Tom Gocze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 2) Re: Testing Torque Cabilities by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 3) Re: Make it by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 4) Re: silicon batteries by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 5) Re: ft-lbs or lbs-ft by Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 6) Re: ft-lbs or lbs-ft by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 7) RE: ft-lbs or lbs-ft by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 8) Re: Cheap by Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 9) Chains and belts (was Re: ft-lbs or lbs-ft by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10) Re: ft-lbs or lbs-ft - Now considerations for sprocket/sheave sizes by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 11) RE: AGM vs Gel by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 12) Re: Chains and belts (was Re: ft-lbs or lbs-ft by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 13) Re: Chains and belts (was Re: ft-lbs or lbs-ft) by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 14) EV air conditioning, how to connect motor? by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 15) Re: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor? by "Randall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 16) Re: Faking Tach signal for 92 VW Cabriolet by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 17) Re: Make it by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 18) Re: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor? by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 19) RE: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor? by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 20) Re: Manly EV's, RE: EV are for girls blog by "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 21) RE: ft-lbs or lbs-ft by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 22) Re: Manly EV's, RE: EV are for girls blog by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 23) Re: AGM vs Gel by "Tehben Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 24) Re: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor? by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 25) Re: regarding the Solectria Sunrise by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- Begin Message --- I am thinning the library. Thought this might be of interest to someone on the list. Bid often! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&ih=020&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE% 3AIT&viewitem=&item=300124434584&rd=1,1 --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- Hello Rob, Just search the WEB on Torque measurements. You can build a simple machine that can read a torque of a rotating shaft. I remember there was one where you bolt the motor down so it will not move and connect a smooth sheave which is the type that does not have any belt V grooves in it to the motor, engine, or any shaft you want to test. Then you have a large beam or something like a 4 x 4 timber that one end is fasten to a support with a single bolt so it can hinge. On this beam, a large brake shoe is connected to it, so when it is lower it makes contact with the sheave. Now the length of distance from the other end of the beam to sheave is about four feet, where you apply down ward pressure at that end, which puts pressure on the sheave of the rotating shaft. Here the length is four feet, so if you put on 20 lbs of weight on the end of this lever, it will be about equal to 80 ft-lbs on the the shaft because 4 feet times 20 lbs = 80 lbs.You could call this 20 4-ft-lbs to be equal to 80 ft-lbs. You also have to add the weight of the beam. You can do this by using a spring scale at the end of the beam to see how much it weighs. Lets say it weights 20 lbs and if it takes another 20 lbs of weight to stop the shaft from rotating or about to stop, then you then add the weight of the shaft which is 20 lbs + 20 lbs = 40 lbs. Then because if your brake contact point is about 4 feet from the shaft, then you take 4 x 40 = 160 ft-lbs. Now let say you made the lever only 2 feet long, then the force at two feet would be about 80 lbs or 2 x 80 = 160 ft-lbs at the shaft. At 1 foot from the shaft, it would be 1 x 160 = 160 ft-lbs. There is another way to measure how many pounds it takes to stop a shaft, like they did way back in time. This time they use a rope pulley on the shaft and another one on a overhead beam which had one or move rope grooves, something like a block and tackle. If the pulley is a double groove type, then you have four runs of line. If you are lifting up 100 lbs of weight, then it takes only 100/4 runs of line = 25 lbs force. You add weight to the end of the pull rope, until the rope around the sheaves on the rotating shaft starts to slip. That will be about, and its is about the pounds require to stop the shaft. To convert this to foot pounds, it requires a pivot lever at the end of this line like the above lever unit. Roland - Original Message - From: "Rob H
EV digest 6958
EV Digest 6958 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Home built hybrid-electrics by "Tom Eberhard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 2) Re: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor? by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 3) Re: vroombox and EV ? by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 4) Re: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor? by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 5) Re: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor? by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 6) DC motor commutation by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 7) Re: Manly EV's, RE: EV are for girls blog by "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 8) Re: All this battery talk and still it depends on who you ask by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 9) Re: Manly EV's, RE: EV are for girls blog by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10) Re: Manly EV's, RE: EV are for girls blog by "Ian Jordan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 11) Re: Home built hybrid-electrics by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 12) Re: AGM vs Gel by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) Re: vroombox and EV ? by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 14) J150 Battery by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 15) RE: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor? by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 16) S10 transmission by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) Fw: programmed controller for use in recharging batteries... by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18) RE: Fw: programmed controller for use in recharging batteries... by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- Begin Message --- Hi, I'm building a hybrid electic car and am interested in getting in touch with other people that have started or completed similar projects. Does anyone have the email address of this guy: http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?t=29720&highlight= (I registered on the site but the admins there have not blessed my request) For anyone who's interested, I post weekly updates of my progress here: http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=3070 and occasionally on my own site: http://www.GreenPlanetGarage.com Best Regards, Tom. --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- On Wed, 2007-06-27 at 12:07 -0500, Danny Miller wrote: > You are underestimating the power requirements of a car A/C compressor. > While it varies by make and model and I have no hard numbers, car A/C is > sized like a huge wall unit, people have said 20K-30K BTU equivalent > which would be something like 4 or 5 HP. The draw varies substantially > with temp differential as far as I know- I saw this powering a 6500 BTU > off an inverter, I got 80A @ 12V at start and it worked up to like 120A > eventually. I've been worried about this too. I may be forced to use a belt for this reason, so I can reduce the size of the motor pulley, and then just deal with the underperforming A/C. At the size of my 2HP motor (5 inch diameter, about 10 inches long, and heavy) I can't imagine a 5HP motor of the same design. > > Doesn't a compressor require a substantial surge power to turn on? No > prob if it's just a mattor of not being within the motor's continuous > rating but if it exceeds the motor's max stall torque then the system > will never get turning in the first place. If the system is not pressurized, I believe that the compressor will automatically soft-start as it builds up pressure over the first few seconds of operation. I believe that building A/C units often have a timer to prevent the system from being switched on until a suitable delay has expired, to allow the system to depressurize through the expansion valve, for this reason. Maybe such a timer would be in order here too. -- Christopher Robison [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13! --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- - Original Message - From: "john fisher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 2:23 PM Subject: Re: vroombox and EV ? > Bob when some aggressive fool in an oh-so-correct EV knocks your 85 year old Mom down in a crosswalk, you might not be > so keen on so-called Darwinian selection. ;>) Its important to remember that not all people are 25 yr old athletes, who > only eat granola, and don't own a cell phone. Some people are toddlers, and some are blind, and some are simply stoned > all the time. Still not ok to mow them down. > > Hey John I DIDN"T say that! I just was being sarcastic, people who know me..You have to be SUPER carefull handling two tons of deadly, silent steel, no matter WHAT form of traction it employs. With stuff they you don't steer, Locomotives, you use the HORN, Loud and clear. IF yur 85 year old Mom is on the RR traks, SHAME on you for not " Handling" her properly! Same for toddlers, had enough near misses with trains! > In fact pedestrians should have the right of way. They are using a lot less resources than any motorized vehicle,
EV digest 6959
EV Digest 6959 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Manly EV's, RE: EV are for girls blog by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 2) v by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 3) OT Re: Make it by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 4) Re: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor? by "Shaun Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 5) RE: Cheap by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 6) Re: AGM vs Gel by "Tehben Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 7) Re: Potential BMS solution for lithium-ion packs. by "Shaun Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 8) Re: ???kWh EV battery pack by "Tehben Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 9) Re: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor? by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10) Re: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor? by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 11) Re: Electrical/Mechanical Engineering by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dana Havranek) 12) RE: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor? by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 13) To Gear or Not to Gear a Motorcycle (was Manly EV's, etc.) by "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 14) Re: ???kWh EV battery pack by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 15) Re: Home built hybrid-electrics by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 16) Re: Cheap "balancer" for A123 pack by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 17) Re: To Gear or Not to Gear a Motorcycle (was Manly EV's, etc.) by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 18) RE: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor? by "Jim, Saturn Guy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 19) Re: To Gear or Not to Gear a Motorcycle (was Manly EV's, etc.) by "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 20) Re: S10 transmission by "Jim, Saturn Guy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 21) Re: Controler Oil by "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 22) Brush timing advance, nothing new :-) by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 23) I have an IDEA! by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 24) Re: Brush timing advance, nothing new :-) by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- Begin Message --- From: "Ian Jordan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: Manly EV's, RE: EV are for girls blog Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:03:40 -0700 Work is work. If you put a gearbox in in order to convert torque to RPM, this is identical to upping the voltage and reducing the current via a battery pack. The gearbox will just require more amps from the battery, so this is the same as "dumping in more current". There's no way to continue to accelerate without generating at least X watts. Those watts either come from volts or amps. Choose one. Ian - you may understand this, but in case others don't: You need BOTH voltage and current to produce power. One is not enough. The product of the two (at least for DC) is power in units of watts. Phil Marino On 6/26/07, Loni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Of course I'd love to just dump in more voltage or current, but design constraints won't allow it. Will changing gears allow me to stay in the fat part of the motor's torque curve while continuing to accelerate to max speed, or should I just wring the motor out and accept whatever output it's capable of as current demand outstrips pack capacity? _ Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- GEM's and Ford Th!nk neighbor's both use the Deka 8G31 as their stock gel battery (although both re-label them and charge a premium of course). They both use a 350 amp GE controller and both seem to get good battery life with them. I know this doesn't sound too impressive, but for a NEV it is. A person recently posted to the Yahoo NEV's group saying he was finally replacing his 2 year old Deka's after about 9,000 miles of use. He drove it about 20 miles a day on average (one cycle) so they were getting good discharges regularly. He did specifically order a car that the dealer did not have on their lot so he would get a brand new one with a brand new fresh pack. I'm just now getting some time on them in the field (I fix NEV's on the side) but thus far they seem to be staying very balanced, and granted we're only talking 6 batteries in series, but they seem to be staying more balanced voltage-wise than their flooded option of Trojan 30XHS's. Later, Rick 92 Saturn SC conversion AZ Alt Fuel plates "ZEROGAS" Glendale, AZ > > > > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:44:13 -0800 > From: Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: AGM vs Gel > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu > > David, how about the 8G31's? Would that be a big > enough battery so as to handle the 300 Amps Tehben > is looking at? > > Mike, > Anchorage, Ak. > __
EV digest 6960
EV Digest 6960 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: ???kWh EV battery pack by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 2) Re: Wheel Hub Motors? by "owen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 3) Re: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor? by "Randall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 4) reed switch application by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 5) RE: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor? by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 6) Re: Wheel Hub Motors? by "Tehben Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 7) Re: regarding the Solectria Sunrise by "Randall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 8) Re: regarding the Solectria Sunrise by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 9) Re: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor? by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10) VS: Re: Cheap by "Jukka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 11) Re: Cheap "balancer" for A123 pack by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 12) Re: I have an IDEA! by "Tehben Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 13) Re: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor? by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 14) Re: ???kWh EV battery pack by "Tehben Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 15) Re: Brush timing advance, nothing new :-) by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 16) Adapter Problem by "Tehben Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 17) Re: Controler space by "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 18) Re: Wheel Hub Motors? by "Rob Hogenmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 19) Any Rabbit EV owners here? by "John A. Evans - N0HJ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 20) RE: I have an IDEA! by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 21) Re: Adapter Problem by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 22) RE: Adapter Problem by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 23) RE: Adapter Problem by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 24) Re: reed switch application by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 25) Re: ft-lbs or lbs-ft by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- Begin Message --- Peter VanDerWal wrote: > C=Capacity. If the battery has a rated capacity of 100Ah, > then 1C equals a 100 amp discharge. Most PbA batteries > capacity is rated at the 20 hr discharge rate, so our > 100 AH battery is actually only food for 100 Ah if > you drain it at 5 Amps for 20 hours (C20 or 0.05C) Just to muddy the waters, this is not precisely correct. C=capacity at whatever rate a particular manufacturer chooses to rate their product; it does not mean the 1-hour capacity necessarily, although one would intuitively expect that 1C=C/1=C. Most PbA batteries will have a capacity spec at the 20-hour rate (C/20) somewhere in their datasheet, but this number is of little use for traction applications. Most flooded PbA batteries will also have a capacity rating specified at the 5-hour rate (C/5, or often C.sub.5). It is not unusual for battery manufacturers to refer to this as the capacity of the battery, but usually they will include a subscript #. A common place this comes up is in a manufacturer's charge recommendations, where the current may be specified something like 0.05CA, which means "a current, in amps, equal to 0.05 of the rated capacity". You then need to refer closely to the manufacturer's literature to confirm what rate they use when rating their battery capacity. Many AGMs are rated at the 10-hour rate (e.g. Hawker Genesis), because this is the more common and useful measure in the applications (UPS, etc) that they target. The 5hr rate is common in industrial/motive power applications and is of more value for us than the 20-hour rate, even though what most of us really need is the 1C and 2C (60 and 30 min rate) capacities. Cheers, Roger. --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- i aready asked how much "We can supply wheel motors and drives to be fitted by the customer to almost any type of vehicle. At present they are all being built by hand to customer order; nothing is available 'off the shelf'. We quote for each application individually. (As a rough guide, the HPD30 motors are priced at GBP £7420 each and the master controller for 2-wheel drive is GBP £4000. This is the cheapest Hi Pa drive option available)." owen - Original Message - From: "Joseph Tahbaz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 1:45 PM Subject: [SPAM] Re: Wheel Hub Motors? PML makes hub motors, though I don't know if you can just order a bunch yourself. On 6/24/07, Rob Hogenmiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Are there any available wheel hub motors? --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- Excellent idea!! http://www.denso.co.jp/motorshow/2003/en/presskit/product_electric/index.html http://www.mail-archive.com/ev@listproc.sjsu.edu/msg06587.html http://www.powermanagementdesignline.com/howto/newpowerplays/199600391;jsessionid=4C22M5BBCSBHSQSNDLQCKIKCJUNN2JVN - Original Message - From: "Jim, Saturn Guy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 8:43
