EV Digest 6994
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: conversions
by "Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: BB 600's
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Building LiFePO4 packs from many, many 18650s (was Re: Tesla Roadster
Battery Pack)
by Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Sailboat Conversion
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: the eVette
by "Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) ADC Sep Ex or Perm-132 ?
by "Corry Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: the eVette
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: conversions
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: the eVette
by "Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: BB 600's
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Tesla Roadster Battery Pack
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: conversions
by "Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: the eVette
by John Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: White Zombie and Friday Night Drags
by "Matt Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Building LiFePO4 packs from many, many 18650s (was Re: Tesla Roadster
Battery Pack)
by Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Building LiFePO4 packs from many, many 18650s (was Re: Tesla Roadster
Battery Pack)
by Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: the eVette
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: the eVette
by "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Greyfoot,
We live in Okeechobee Forida, if you would like a ride, call frist and let us
know when you would like to come.
Tom Sines
-----Original Message-----
>From: TrotFox Greyfoot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jul 5, 2007 8:34 AM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Re: conversions
>
>Tom,
>
>If I'm ever down Florida-way we'll have to run yours and mine through
>a slalom. I'm unconvinced that my "normal" 4-wheeler is less
>maneuverable than your 3 wheeler.
>
>Trot, the certain, fox...
>
>On 7/5/07, Tom S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi Rodger,
>>
>> Yes it is a motorcycle, that means no insurance in Florida. The advantages
>> are,it holds more batteries so it will go farther on a charge.It will out
>> maneuver any 4wheel car any time, and its fun to drive.It also has 2 motors
>> twice the power.
>>
>> Tom Sines
>
>
>--
>| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
>| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
>| >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
>
________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BOB,
I think I will come to PIR for the wayland
invitational and bring a scooter that I have set up
for 36v if you have room for that many bb 600 maybe we
can adapt them to it, probably have to build some sort
of different battery box. what would the dimensions
of a 36v pack be? See you in portland...(I if you are
staying at the same hotel maybe we can share the
expense)
--- Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey Bob,
> How many, and how much? I can get them back to
> Colorado in Bill Dube's rig, so shipping won't cost
> anything...
>
> - Steven Ciciora
>
> --- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi EVerybody;
> >
> > Micro Sloth is up to it's old stuff! My note an
> > BB600's bounced, said I
> > wasn't subscribed to the List? Like hell! Have
> been
> > for YEARS, but I'll use
> > one of my notes that DID get through.Wipe it clean
> > and forward.
> >
> > Point here, Oh, I'm GETTING to it! Anybody
> > want/need some BB600's, like
> > for a bike, scooter? A reasonable load for a
> Prius,
> > as I would deliver on my
> > Portland Pilgrimage in a few daze.Would help
> defray
> > the expences, too.
> >
> > Seeya at PDX
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Speaking of battery packs..
It seems ThunderSky's prices have gone up about 25% in the last 2
months, which means they've lost most of their cost advantage over
PHET (and others), and with all this talk of dodgy business
practices, it's given me reason for pause.
So once again I'm entertaining the idea of building a pack from
18650s (yes, what a lot of work..!)
I believe the Tesla pack has modules of 99 cells in series, with 23
of these modules connected in parallel. So no single cells are
explicitly paralleled, and if capacities don't match exactly well
it's averaged out over the 99. Great way to do it.
But this requires BMS monitoring of each cell individually, which is
just too much work for me!
So can anyone think of any showstopper problems with just hooking up
modules of 23 cells in parallel, and then wiring 99 of the modules
together in series. Then I'd only have 99 voltage levels to monitor.
(My actual numbers would be different but I'm using Tesla's numbers
for comparison.)
Seems to me the biggest problem would be the lowest common
denominator effect, i.e the groups of 23 would only be as good as the
weakest cell. Oh and if one cell shorted out, that could be rather
catastrophic I guess.
Thoughts?
-Ian
On 05/07/2007, at 11:19 PM, Joseph T. wrote:
The Tesla Roadster battery pack has 6,831 cells. The Tesla Roadster,
I've heard, is supposed to be 375 volts. Hmm...Lithium Ion batteries
are rated at 3.6 nominal voltage. So....3.6 volts times 6,831 cells
obviously doesn't equal 375 volts!!! What's going on here?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can buy very nice DC outboard units for boats.
Today, I rented a very nice lap-strake boat with a 500 watt two-speed
electric drive. The boat holds five people, is about 10 feet long,
and has two large 12 volt flooded lead-acid batteries. They looked to
be about 150 to 200 A-hrs each. According to the woman that rents
them out, they run for seven hours on a single charge. I'd guess that
it moved at about 7 knots on the "2" setting.
It was interesting to maneuver the boat to the dock with no
reverse and no steering aside from thrust.
I would think that this commercially-available electric
outboard would be a very nice solution for a modest-sized sail boat.
I'll post a couple of pictures on the KillaCycle website. I
couldn't get a good picture of the nameplate, so I have no idea of
the manufacturer's name. :-(
There were quite a number of these electric-powered boats
sprinkled around the docks and boathouses at Hallstatt lake, so they
must be reasonably priced and commonly available, at least in Austria.
Bill Dube'
At 04:51 AM 6/28/2007, you wrote:
I need advice on how to reverse the rotation on a series-wound motor.
I am converting a 1968 sailboat from an old, smelly, messy, water
and air polluting gasoline 4-banger to a nice, new, quiet,
pollution-free dc motor.
I have acquired a no-name 48-v series-wound dc motor with CW
rotation and 2 external leads. When I apply voltage to the leads,
the motor turns CW. When I reverse the polarity of the voltage, the
motor still turns CW.
Under normal circumstances this would not be a problem since I do
not intend to drive the boat backwards very much. But from time to
time, I will have to back out of my slip. So I need the motor to be
able to turn CCW.
If the motor had four leads (A1, A2, S1, S2) solving this problem
would be simple. But as it only has 2 leads, I'm going to have to
open the motor up to fix this - but I am not sure what I have to do.
Can anyone give me (relatively detailed) advice on how to proceed? Thanks.
Michael Bittle
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Sorry no pictures of the under side, I will tell you this its pretty beefy
under there,and still the car without batteries only weighs about a
1000lbs.Think about it.
Ton Sines
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jul 5, 2007 11:40 AM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: RE: the eVette
>
>Tom,
>
>I am confused about the design. Do you have any pictures of the
>underside?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Tom S.
>Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 11:38
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Re: the eVette
>
>Hi Michael,
>
>Come on over to Okeechobee Florida,I`ll give you a ride you will never
>forget.
>
>Tom Sines
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Michael Wendell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Sent: Jul 5, 2007 10:16 AM
>>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>Subject: the eVette
>>
>>
>>i'm sorry, i have to weigh in on this.
>>
>>mike chancey asked:
>>> Okay Tom, so now that you have outlined the problem as you see it,
>>> what are you suggesting as a solution?
>>
>>tom sines replied:
>>> Thought you would never ask, go to electricevette.com
>>
>>there are no answers on that site. it's a few small pictures of the
>>'car', a brief statement, and links to some videos which don't offer
>>much in the way of information. if you have something to contribute,
>>then we're all ears. if all you're looking to do is promote the eVette
>>to investors, well, you've probably come to the wrong place.
>>
>>tom sines also simplistically stated:
>>> It will out maneuver any 4wheel car any time
>>
>>it will absolutely, unequivocally NOT outmaneuver any car at any time.
>>yes, sure, at slow speeds, in extremely tight maneuvers, it will
>>perform wonderfully, and outperform a car, but so will a forklift. get
>>it into real world, higher speed situations and it is a disaster
>>waiting to happen. if you'd like to prove your statement, simply show
>>up at any SCCA autocross and race the thing. if you can beat even half
>>the cars that show up, i'll eat my hat. hell, better yet, you finish in
>
>>the top half and i'll pay your entry fees.
>>
>>here's the local schedule, registration is still open for the july 22
>>event in deland. there are also events in brooksville and sebring. i
>>think you're right around the corner from sebring, correct?
>>http://www.cfrsolo2.com/schedule.php
>>
>>tom sines also said:
>>> It also has 2 motors twice the power.
>>
>>that statement is simply silly. how big are the motors? twice the power
>
>>of what? without qualification, that's just rubbish.
>>
>>you were asked if it was a fiero re-body kit, and you replied it was a
>>lamborghini. yes, we all recognize the countach shape, the question was
>
>>if it was a kit for a fiero. i guess i can understand the confusion,
>>but you seem to want to keep us in the dark or play games with your
>>brief answers, referring us to the website for answers, a website which
>
>>really doesn't provide us with any information.
>>
>>tom sines also said:
>>> I just put that body on it to get your attention, I think it worked.
>>
>>covering yourself with poo also gets attention, but are you sure you're
>
>>getting the kind of attention you want? the body so obviously doesn't
>>fit the character of the vehicle. the countach's planform is incredibly
>
>>square, with big, sharp, overhanging front corners, watching them bob
>>around when the vehicle is under power or turning simply points out how
>
>>poorly the body fits the design.
>>
>>tom, you may have something wonderful here, but you're presenting it in
>
>>a way that makes it very hard to digest. instead of telling us that
>>this is the future, tell us why you made these choices. instead of
>>telling us that you can store more batteries than a conversion, tell us
>
>>how many and what kind you're using, maybe what you want to use in the
>>future. instead of answering questions with statements like 'now you're
>on the right track'
>>give us some real information.
>>
>>otherwise, the whole thing reeks of snake oil. this list isn't chock
>>full of potential investors, don't sell us. instead, use the list as a
>>resource to make your potentially revolutionary product better. there
>>are some amazingly talented and brilliant people on the list who are
>>incredibly helpful if you give them the chance to be.
>>
>>one other thing though, have a thick skin. people will question your
>>decisions, and you may have to defend those decisions in a serious and
>>thoughful manner. be aware though, that the talent on this list may
>>also make you realize that you've made some poor choices, and may need
>>to rethink things. if you're open to that possibility, the list can
>>only help make the eVette better.
>>
>>m.
>>
>
>
>________________________________________
>PeoplePC Online
>A better way to Internet
>http://www.peoplepc.com
>
________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:50:26 -0400
From: "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: the eVette
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
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John,
I'll grant that you're correct. I was assuming that Tom was showing
this as a design that's ready to use by the general public, on the
roads. I do not doubt that his videos are real and that the car is
drivable and "generally" stable.
If that is not the case, I apologize. It woulda been nice if he'd
Said so though.
Trot, the un-bristled, fox...
On 7/5/07, John Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You guys have missed some essential points about Tom's car, IMO. In
> treating it as some sort of challenge to be debunked, you haven't
> noticed what he has achieved, assuming the small pix and video are fair
> representations.
--
| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
| >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
--- End Message ---
