Re: [EVDL] BMW i3
My i-Miev has a similar set up which, also, works extremely well. The regen you get with foot off both pedals is probably at least twice or even 3 times the engine (or plug) braking effect on an ICEV but can be modulated by leaving your foot on the accelerator to some degree. It has been very easy to learn to use this for best overall driving effect; - efficiency and comfort. It is interesting to note when I get back into an ICEV that this effect is not only obviously missing but also very much missed. If you brake during regen the 'econometer' indicates yet more regen which is also modulated ie the harder you brake the more regen you get - up to (or down to, rather) about 5mph when the regen appears to stop completely and then it's brakes only bringing you that last bit to a stop. All very smooth and completely seamless. What I haven't discovered yet is if the brake lights come on with both feet off the pedals... MW On 17 Jan 2014, at 15:07, Ben Apollonio wrote: > As far as I know, Tesla actually pioneered that approach to regen, but I've > seen many reviews of the i3 where people think it's a novel idea. At first I > didn't like the feel, but after further thought, it's far superior than the > Prius model (light regen to simulate engine drag, plus additional regen on > the brake pedal). Not only is driving smooth and easy, but you know exactly > where the line is between regen and friction brakes. You also get a more > responsive brake pedal. > > -Ben > > On Jan 16, 2014, at 4:22 PM, Rush Dougherty wrote: > >>> Indeed they did! I posted the controller from a 1902 Baker on my web page >> at >>> http://www.sunrise-ev.com/Controllers.htm. It had a compound motor, and >>> used both regenerative and dynamic braking. In fact, it had no mechanical >>> brakes! Just a mechanical parking brake. >> >> I drove the BMW i3 yesterday. It has very strong regenerative braking. The >> more you let up on the go pedal (what do we call the accelerator pedal for >> an EV?), the stronger the regen is. If you don't tailgate the guy in front >> of you, you don't need to brake, it will regen to a stop. And to 'coast', >> according to the display on the dashboard, there is no usage of the battery >> pack. >> >> I really liked it if only for that one reason. >> >> And it has Excellent acceleration... well, I also really liked the >> acceleration... >> >> Rush >> www.TucsonEV.com >> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: PowerUp3 smartphone-controlled paper Electric-plane kit (videos)
$1M pledged of $50k Kickstarter goal
% 2 'Magicaler' videos!, Project by Shai Goitein NY, NY %
http://hothardware.com/News/SmartphoneControlled-Electric-Paper-Airplane-Kit-Nears-1-Million-In-Kickstarter-Funds/
Smartphone-Controlled Electric Paper Airplane Kit Nears $1 Million In
Kickstarter Funds
January 11, 2014 - by Seth Colaner
[images
http://hothardware.com/newsimages/Item28614/powerup-main.jpg
PowerUp 3.0
http://hothardware.com/newsimages/Item28614/powerup-iphoneapp.jpg
PowerUp 3.0 app
]
On the list of things we spent an inordinate amount of time doing as
children, making paper airplanes (and floating them to inappropriate places
at inappropriate times) was easily in the top ten, and it looks like very
little has changed in *cough* the last few decades *cough*.
The PowerUp 3.0 is a smartphone-controlled paper airplane kit that actually
appears far more compelling that you might think, and to date the group’s
Kickstarter campaign is edging ever closer to $1 million. Currently, the
amount of pledged funds is $965,447, and there’s still 13 days left in the
campaign.
The PowerUp 3.0 sports a smart chip with a Bluetooth module on the nose, and
the rear of the device has a fan a moving rudder. The creator, Shai Goitein,
claims that the little PowerUp 3.0, which is constructed of a carbon fiber
frame, is durable and can last through many crashes. You can charge the
battery with any microUSB charger, which is a nice feature.
An electric paper airplane is cool enough, but this one has a smartphone app
that lets you control it, too. Currently only for iOS (an Android version is
in the offing), the app features an artificial horizon, magnetic compass,
thrust level indicator, ascend/descend lever control, range indicator, and
more. You simply tilt the phone to the left or right to maneuver.
With the funds raised the PowerUp 3.0 can go into production and (hopefully)
appear on store shelves as soon as possible. Possible stretch goals include
a dogfight mode wherein you can duel with another PowerUp 3.0, a dual-engine
model, and a mounted video camera option.
[© 2014 HotHardware.com]
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/393053146/powerup-30-smartphone-controlled-paper-airplane
PowerUp 3.0 - Smartphone Controlled Paper Airplane by Shai Goitein
...
http://www.poweruptoys.com/pages/app-toys
PowerUp 3.0 App Toys
...
[videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9bpp7zmM_A
PowerUp 3.0 Smartphone Controlled Paper Airplane Kickstarter
Shai Goitein· Nov 26, 2013
Preorder on Kickstarter http://kck.st/IfPkIA
PowerUp Toys has introduced a new form of play by fusing origami classics
with state of the art technology. This time we took a big leap forward, by
integrating Bluetooth Smart technology into our PowerUp Paper airplane
module. Now you can easily control a simple self made paper airplane with
your smartphone. Say hi to the World's First Smartphone Controlled Paper
Airplane - PowerUp 3.0.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Lu6nt1-Lxo
PowerUp 3.0 smartphone controlled paper airplanes
Shai Goitein· Nov 24, 2013
Amazing Flight's of the new PowerUp 3.0 Smartphone controlled paper airplane
]
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EVLN: EVSE infrastructure is growing in Palais-des-congrès.ca
+
EVLN: FAW/Toyota-JV Ranz Budget EV r:~100km ts:120kph
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[EVDL] EVLN: FAW/Toyota-JV Ranz Budget EV r:~100km ts:120kph
http://gas2.org/2014/01/09/toyota-launches-budget-electric-car-brand-china/
Toyota Launches Budget Electric Car Brand in China
[2014/01/09] Car News China, Motorpasion
[images / Car News China, Motorpasion
http://c1gas2org.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/files/2014/01/ranz_main.jpg
Toyota Ranz Budget Electric Car
http://c1gas2org.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/files/2014/01/ranz_3.jpg
http://c1gas2org.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/files/2014/01/ranz_4.jpg
]
Despite offering very few “pure” EVs, Toyota are world leaders in hybrid and
battery technology. As such, it was only a matter of time before they
entered the EV market in a big way, and they’re doing that now with this
Ranz EV, which is set to launch a new budget brand of electric cars in Asia.
Based on the previous Toyota Corolla EX model, the Ranz is meant to be part
of a sub-brand of the FAW-Toyota joint venture (similar to the Scion brand
of Toyota-Subaru joint ventures here in the US) that’s focused on making
cheap electric cars. Power is expected to come from a 95 hp electric motor
that’s good for a Chinese government-approved 74 mph (120 km/h) top speed.
Range wasn’t mentioned at the show, but I’d expect something in the 100 km
range from a budget model like this- more or less on par with Mitsubishi’s
iMiEV.
The first examples of Toyota’s new Ranz branded electric cars is expected to
go on sale in Shanghai this April- a region that’s pushing hard for electric
and hybrid cars in a bid to curb its horrible pollution problems. Pricing is
expected to be somewhere in the 90,800 – 113,800 yuan range (about $18,000
on the high side, which is way low for the Chinese market). No word, yet, on
whether the cars will be available for the general public or if they’ll be
reserved for a select group of “test case” drivers.
In other words: some animals are more equal than others.
Toyota Ranz Budget Electric Car
[© gas2.org]
..
http://www.carnewschina.com/2014/01/02/spy-shots-faw-toyota-ranz-ev-is-ready-for-the-china-car-market/
Car News China
...
http://www.motorpasionfuturo.com/coches-electricos/ranz-la-marca-de-toyota-para-vehiculos-electricos-asequibles
Motorpasion
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EVLN: EVSE infrastructure is growing in Palais-des-congrès.ca
+
EVLN: PowerUp3 smartphone-controlled paper Electric-plane kit (videos)
{brucedp.150m.com}
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Re: [EVDL] tractor conversion
Fred, I think you have a very valid point. I am also concerned that to some people 'tractor' means a wee thing that tootles around cutting a large lawn and to others (myself included) a 'tractor' is a BIG machine capable of pulling at least a 4 bladed plough and would, indeed, have a good 100HP, probably diesel, engine. I think the original post is leaning more in the direction of the latter scenario. If so, then torque and the associated relevance of gearing/wheel size is could be very important. The only full-size tractor 'EV' I have heard of is one powered by a fuel cell by New Holland. Despite being a fossil fuel powered vehicle, really, there should still be useful information pertinent to this thread to be gained from it... http://www.treehugger.com/cars/new-holland-unveils-farm-ready-hydrogen-fuel-cell-tractor.html Enjoy... On 17 Jan 2014, at 20:09, fred wrote: > I'm surprised to not see the subject of torque arise when discussing a > suitable motor for a conversion of an ICE tractor. My limited understanding > of tractors does mean more questions than answers. I've operated a couple > that have a method for a fixed throttle setting, but almost always that > setting is high, due to the need of such rpm from the ICE to operate the > attached devices. Ground speed is relatively low, and that represents > gearing, which in this example, means increased torque. > > If one is pursuing a replacement electric motor, I would expect that > horsepower means less than a specific torque at a given rpm. Electric motors > provide good torque at low rpm compared to an ICE, yes? If a specific tractor > had, for example, a 100 hp ICE, one would not have to have that amount of > horsepower from the replacement electric motor, would one? > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BMW i3
The HPEVS motors/Curtis controllers can be set up this way. The Curtis software is very flexible in this regard. There are two inputs: Neutral_Braking under the Torque Mode menu, which works off the accelerator pedal, and Brake Menu for a separate Brake input to the controller. The Regen Limiting Map under the Current Limits Map menu can be used to limit how much regen you get at different motor rpm - to avoid very high regen if you remove your foot from the accelerator at high rpm for example. There is a similar Brake Map. I use only Neutral_Braking but HPEVS generally uses both, setting up fairly strong regen off the accelerator pedal, and then applying more with the Brake function through the vehicle's brake pedal. It is easy to tailor them as you want using the hand held programmer or the Curtis PC software. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/BMW-i3-tp4667514p4667554.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Electric Tractor for a Farm...
a private message, please obtain my > >> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . > >> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > >> > >> > > > > > >-- > >Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is > >merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82 > >-- next part -- > >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140117/8f3b156b/attachment.htm > > > >___ > >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > > > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140117/88be5cb1/attachment.htm > > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140118/b02754e7/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] tractor conversion
> From: m...@winlow.co.uk > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 11:17:47 + > To: fred_do...@yahoo.com; ev@lists.evdl.org > Subject: Re: [EVDL] tractor conversion > > Fred, I think you have a very valid point. I am also concerned that to some > people 'tractor' means a wee thing that tootles around cutting a large lawn > and to others (myself included) a 'tractor' is a BIG machine capable of > pulling at least a 4 bladed plough and Some videos here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23yEIDbmc3U - John -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140118/fb1b1d33/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Electric Tractor for a Farm...
It has been a few years since I worked with electric tractors, but here some links that may help- http://evalbum.com/216 http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/tracpage.html http://www.renewables.com/Products/SolTracCrawler.htm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6jNajDSx9M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YmbFtJlZpU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOqCdnHudxU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufLpGGf7TWs http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL18420DF30176E5A2 Lots of electric tractor stuff on You Tube. On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Thos True wrote: > Hi Marco, > > I have been watching this thread with a fair amount of interest, as I have > an older Yanmar 187-D that I inherited from my parent's farm. It has only > 200 hours on it, but was plagued by constant issues with the safety > interconnects (mostly because it was never garaged, I believe). The power > plant is a 3 cylinder diesel, so we had planned on using a conventional 8" > advanced DC motor, or equivalent (thinking salvage from an old forklift- > possibly along with the industrial controller) Had planned to run it at > 48-72 volts using group 31 batteries (I have about a dozen left over from a > previous project), then swapping to lithiums when some older ones come > through that need to be re-purposed. Another thought that occurred to us > was to use an alltrax controller (inexpensive & robust) if the industrial > unit was not viable. > The tractor has been sitting as a future project that was initially set > aside when the economy took a dive, and stayed put as my Dad's health > declined (the plan was to do it as another one of our father-son projects). > The adc puts out about 20hp, but do not be confused by the rating, as the > torque is roughly equivalent to that of a small block V-8 (I have put a few > in car conversions that have performed well against nicely built street > machines!). > Over the past few months, I have been concentrating on cleaning out or > completing several of my unfinished projects, and have caught myself > looking wistfully at the tractor project that sits alongside my old > carport. My son has asked when we are going to do something with it, so I > am thinking that the spring is looking to be good for this idea. > I want to thank you for bringing the topic to this forum. > > -Tom True > > > On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 11:36 AM, EVDL Administrator >wrote: > > > On 16 Jan 2014 at 8:11, Ing. Marco Gaxiola wrote: > > > > > Actually I haven't thought about the batteries, range and > > > chargers, I've focused only in the motor issue. > > > > I recommend that you rather decide what kind of battery you need first. > > Choose on its ability to deliver power and operating time. Then, choose > > the > > motor and controller that suit the battery. > > > > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA > > EVDL Administrator > > > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not > > reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my > > email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > > > > > ___ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > > > -- > Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is > merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82 > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140117/8f3b156b/attachment.htm > > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140118/eb7eeb06/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] tractor conversion
On 01/18/2014 12:30 PM, Hoegberg wrote: Some videos here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23yEIDbmc3U Very enticing! Steve Clunn has been wanting to convert a tractor for me and I've been reluctant so far. The tractor type in the above video is known (by me) as a "high clearance" (HC), or "cultivating" tractor. They are generally in the range of 10 to 30 hp. Examples: Allis G, the Farmall Cub in the video, Tuff Bilt. I have a Japanese Iseki, badged as a IH 274, cultivating/HC tractor. About 30 hp diesel. FAR too nice and useful a tractor to risk converting. I would like to have an electric cultivating tractor similar to the G, the Cub, or Tuff Bilt. If Steve does do a cultivating tractor for me and it works out, I might then consider a larger tractor. For most farm tasks, I find 80-100 hp overkill. I have two 50 hp and rarely use them. Though you do need at least 50 hp to run a hay baler. 50 hp will run a 10' shredder easily. I shred mostly with a 6' shredder on a 35 hp tractor. All my vegetable work is done one row at at time so 50 hp is more than I need for any my plowing. One factor complicating a conversion is that many agricultural tractors use the engine block as a structural member; extracting the clutch involves splitting the tractor. The production EVs seem to have put the damper on car conversions. Tractor conversions may still be attractive. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] own list messages
I've noticed that I haven't been getting my posts to EVDL back for quite some time. Today is a slow day so I went to the trouble of getting my password and checking my mailman settings. I find that it IS set to send me my own posts. I wonder what is wrong? ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] own list messages
On 18 Jan 2014 at 16:47, Willie2 wrote: > I've noticed that I haven't been getting my posts to EVDL back for quite some > time ... I'm prettu sure that's a Gmail "feature." I have a gmail account only to (now and then) check to make sure it's receiving EVDL messages properly, so I'm not a Gmail expert. Maybe other folks will have some suggestions for turning off this "feature." David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] own list messages
On 01/18/2014 07:38 PM, EVDL Administrator wrote: On 18 Jan 2014 at 16:47, Willie2 wrote: I've noticed that I haven't been getting my posts to EVDL back for quite some time ... I'm prettu sure that's a Gmail "feature." I have a gmail account only to (now and then) check to make sure it's receiving EVDL messages properly, so I'm not a Gmail expert. Maybe other folks will have some suggestions for turning off this "feature." That's probably so. I believe it happened about the time I started channeling all my mail through gmail. It worked wonders on spam. I don't read much mail through gmail; I use other clients, mainly Thunderbird now. I just wandered the gmail settings in their webmail and didn't find anything. Maybe someone else knows how to deal with it? ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] own list messages
I find a number of emails from this list have been placed into the spam folder by Yahoo. It seems to be particularly bad when there is more than one URL in any one post. If I accept the same kind of email for a few times, it eventually learns that EVDL postings aren't spam. I have to do this about once every six months. Might be the same for gmail. Tom Keenan > On Jan 18, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Willie2 wrote: > >> On 01/18/2014 07:38 PM, EVDL Administrator wrote: >>> On 18 Jan 2014 at 16:47, Willie2 wrote: >>> >>> I've noticed that I haven't been getting my posts to EVDL back for quite >>> some >>> time ... >> I'm prettu sure that's a Gmail "feature." I have a gmail account only to >> (now and then) check to make sure it's receiving EVDL messages properly, so >> I'm not a Gmail expert. Maybe other folks will have some suggestions for >> turning off this "feature." > That's probably so. I believe it happened about the time I started > channeling all my mail through gmail. It worked wonders on spam. I don't > read much mail through gmail; I use other clients, mainly Thunderbird now. I > just wandered the gmail settings in their webmail and didn't find anything. > Maybe someone else knows how to deal with it? > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Dual shaft ADC motor on Ebay
Ebay find: www.ebay.com/itm/ADC-AMD-FB1-4001A-Double-Shaft/281245483665 it was listed with local pickup or arrange your own shipping Currently no bids, $1000 and 2 days to go. I thought maybe someone could use this - not my listing! Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com <http://www.proxim.com> Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info <http://www.cvandewater.infom> Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140118/47eadceb/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
