Re: [EVDL] Success!

[Michael Ross via EV]

Lee, your point is very well taken.  Tesla has a fusible link on every one
of their 7000 cells, for example.  I suspect they have all manner of
software and hardware protection beyond that.  They have billions on the
line.

On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 11:50 PM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:

> Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
>
>> I don't charge my car in the living room, but the attached garage is
>> just a layer of sheetrock removed from the living room... In there
>> are a large number of CALB 180Ah cells...
>>
>
> Our ICEs all have tens of gallons of highly flammable gasoline in them.
> This sits in a wooden garage, often attached to a home, with little more
> than a sheet of drywall between them.
>
> Yes, there are house fires caused by a car in the garage catching fire.
> They are rare, thanks to considerable effort on the part of the automakers
> to prevent that gasoline from accidentally catching fire.
>
> Presumably, EV manufacturers also consider the consequences of some design
> error or component failure starting a fire in their lithium battery pack.
> They then include safety precautions to make this impossible, or at least
> extremely unlikely. (If they don't, they're leaving themselves wide open
> for a lawsuit if anything goes wrong!)
>
> I think the risk comes from hobby DIY types that either don't know the
> risk, or choose not to do anything about it. There are bound to be idiots
> that store gasoline in an open-topped bucket in the garage, and somehow
> haven't blown themselves up. Or that didn't bother to install circuit
> breakers in their electrical wiring, and haven't set the wiring on fire
> yet. ("What could possibly go wrong?")
>
> The same type of idiot could also wire up a bunch of lithium cells, and
> use a "dumb" charger on them. It would work fine, until the day that
> something goes wrong. Then he'd have a lovely roaring fire.
>
> This doesn't mean you shouldn't charge lithium batteries inside. It just
> means that if you do, you'd better know what you're doing, and do it RIGHT!
>
> --
> The greatest pleasure in life is to create something that wasn't
> there before. -- Roy Spence
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>
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>
>


-- 
To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. Edison
<http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html>

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Google Phone
(919) 631-1451 Cell

michael.e.r...@gmail.com

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[EVDL] EVLN: NUMMI, years later: Inside Tesla

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://kalw.org/post/nummi-five-years-later-inside-tesla
NUMMI, five years later: Inside Tesla
[20150602]

[images  / Raja Shah
http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kalw/files/styles/mobile_story_full/public/201506/unnamed-3.jpg
Tesla's special KUKA robots can do four different tasks

http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kalw/files/201506/DSC04216.JPG
Tesla did some redecorating when they moved into the plant. They painted the
floors bright white, and they bought lots of red robots

http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kalw/files/201506/DSC04238_0.JPG
A brand new Tesla Model S rolls down the line

http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kalw/files/201506/DSC04233.JPG
Tesla hopes to revolutionize the way we drive cars. They are working to
bring the cost of their rechargeable car batteries down to the point where
no one has to rely on gas modes of transportation

http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kalw/files/201506/DSC04292_0.JPG
Sara Rogers looks through a book of letters kids wrote her after going on
one of her tours. Credit Angela Johnston


audio
http://cpa.ds.npr.org/kalw/audio/2015/06/WEB.NUMMI3_.mp3
]

[Part 3] ... Before Maryo Mendez found that auto shop job at Sears, he
actually dropped his resume off at the building where he used to work. NUMMI
wasn’t there anymore, of course, but there were still cars being made
inside. Electric cars.

Only a few months after NUMMI shut down, Tesla Motors snatched up the space.
The 5.5 million square foot building was valued at $1.3 billion, but because
it was the recession, Tesla bought it for just $42 million. When the rest of
the auto industry was going bankrupt, Tesla began to thrive, and it gave
former NUMMI workers like Mendez a tiny bit of hope.

“I concentrated on (Tesla) first. I got some leads from some people that
were working in there,” Mendez says. But he had no luck. He thinks it was
because of his age.

“They wouldn’t hire anyone over 50, so it was getting even harder to get in
there, even when I had the perfect resume that the unemployment people
helped me make.”

The truth is that when Tesla moved into NUMMI it was still a really small
startup. In 2012, the company was only making five cars a week, and didn’t
need that many employees. But it never released the numbers.

“The company has said informally it’s been hundreds, but what exactly does
that mean? 200 or 500?” says Harley Shaiken, a UC Berkeley professor who
studies labor and the global economy.

“A lot of NUMMI workers who would’ve brought valuable skills, for whatever
reason, didn't wind up at Tesla,” he adds.

Today, Tesla has thousands of employees. They won’t say exactly how many --
or how many used to work at NUMMI. Shaiken says that’s a shame.

“This was one of the most well-known and successful automobile factories in
the world. It pioneered labor management cooperation in important ways in
the United States.”

It was definitely revolutionary. NUMMI prided itself on making cars in an
efficient, productive way. But Tesla says it’s revolutionary too: changing
the future of both auto manufacturing and driving.

Inside the Tesla factory
When I arrive at Tesla, I meet up with communications staffer Alexis
Georgeson, climb into a golf cart, and start zipping around the factory,
watching cars in every stage of the assembly process. First stop is the
aluminum coil yard.

“So Model S starts with a giant roll of  aluminum,” she says. “Each one of
these rolls weighs about 20,000 pounds and they come into the factory, and
then we unroll the sheets.”

At NUMMI, this is how cars would start out too, as giant rolls of metal.
Those large sheets of aluminum are then stamped. Georgeson shows me this,
too.

When Tesla moved in, they did some redecorating. They put in skylights,
painted the floors bright white, and installed living plant walls. Some of
the equipment in the factory came from NUMMI, and if you look closely enough
you can see some remnants of the old line.

Other machines are new to the space. Tesla bought a lot of high tech-robots,
and they’re all painted bright red -- Tesla colors.

Georgeson stops the golf cart to show me robots that can do four different
jobs at once.

Meeting the robots
The robots look lifelike, and they remind me of dinosaurs. As a car rolls
down the line, the robots cock their heads all at once and then dive in
toward the car, quickly screwing in bolts, welding, and drilling. Then they
pull back and wait for the next car.

For the whole first hour of the tour, I was waiting to be introduced to a
worker. I remembered Sara Rogers, the NUMMI tour guide, telling me about
‘Bob’ who puts on tires, ‘Jim’ who puts on the doors.

“Xavier actually lifts Model S right when it’s coming from the paint shop,
and sets it down on the trim line,” Georgeson tells me. And I get my hopes
up.

But when when we finally meet him, I see that Xavier isn’t a person. He’s a
robot, so strong that he can lift two-ton newly-assembled cars high into the
air.

“They'

[EVDL] EVLN: Used EV Market About To Get Big, What You Need 2Know

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1098496_used-electric-cars-about-to-get-big-what-you-need-to-know
Used Electric Cars: About To Get Big, What You Need To Know
By Bengt Halvorson  May 28, 2015

[images  
http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/nissan-leaf_100225855_m.jpg
Nissan LEAF

http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/three-nissan-leafs_100385985_m.jpg
Three Nissan Leafs

http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2014-mitsubishi-i-miev_100468545_m.jpg
2014 Mitsubishi i-MiEV

http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2011-nissan-leaf-owned-by-nikki-gordon-bloomfield_100502316_m.jpg
2011 Nissan Leaf owned by Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield

http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/nissan-leaf-electric-cars-used-by-seattle-traffic-enforcement-department_100508573_m.jpg
Nissan Leaf electric cars used by Seattle traffic enforcement department.
]

Think electric-car ownership is priced out of your league? It's simply not.
Even if leasing isn't for you, or you don't have the stellar credit required
to get some of those deals, prices are plummeting on used electric vehicles
and that makes it a buyers' market, especially for some of the more popular
EVs like the Nissan Leaf.

It's a bit hard to believe that the Nissan Leaf has been on the market for
four and a half years, while the Mitsubishi i-MiEV has been available in the
U.S. for three and a half. And it's just short of three years since the
first delivery of a Tesla Model S.

Back in 2012 and 2013, special low (subsidized) lease prices were offered
for the Leaf, the i-MiEV, and other early EVs like the Ford Focus Electric.
Leaf prices back then rapidly fell to as low as $139 a month under some
offers, while Volt offers have held at around $250 a month, according to the
leasing marketplace Swapalease.com, but recently dropped to $199.

Those earlier vehicles are now starting to return to dealerships; and
they're going to dramatically affect the the supply-and-demand equation for
used EVs far more than they already have this year.

The subsidized-lease hangover begins

About 85 percent of Nissan Leaf models registered this past year were
leased, and around 49 percent of Chevrolet Volt models were leased.

Estimates from the NADA place the number of those two used models hitting
the market at 25,000 altogether; that's more than half of the annual new
sales and leases of new Volts and Leafs, together.

Analysts are anticipating that this will push prices downward. Although with
retail used prices on many electric cars already astonishingly low, it begs
the question of how much cheaper can they get.

The Leaf, according to current nationwide market-based data supplied by
Black Book, has taken a plunge in resale value, with a 2012 Nissan Leaf SV
already worth just $13,650, on average, by June 2014, and anticipated to be
worth a lowly $8,050 in June 2015. That's just 23 percent of its original
$35,200 MSRP and $36,380 estimated retail price when new. And even when
considering the $7,500 federal tax credit on electric vehicles, it's a
dismal 29 percent.

If a car's been sitting in pristine condition, the story isn't all that much
better for the seller. Top 'clean'-condition Leafs are only fetching about
$1,500 more ($9,500) on the market.

One of our readers recently reported that they could purchase a 2012 Leaf SL
with less than 10,000 miles and 12 battery-quality bars for under $14,000.
"Since the slower level 2 charger didn't matter to us given sufficient
CHAdeMO chargers where we need them, saving $7000 was a no-brainer," they
reported.

There are plenty of confirmations that the price is still moving downward.
According to Cars.com, prices for used Nissan Leafs sank more than those of
any used car in March and April, dropping 14 percent year-to-date just
through the end of April.

Cars.com reported a $14,495 average used price, factoring in 2012 through
2014 model years.

If you think that's difficult news for Nissan, it's even worse for
Mitsubishi. The 2012 Mitsubishi i-MiEV is selling for a market-average price
of $5,750, or $7,000 for those top-condition ones. That's also not much more
than a fifth of the i-MiEV's original price.

'Back lot' prices for perfectly good, late-model EVs

On both fronts, gasoline-powered no-frills 'economy cars' showed far better
resale value, with the Nissan Versa and Mitsubishi Lancer worth a much
higher portion of their original price (yes, even considering the tax
credit) than their EV counterparts. In many cases, the gasoline car actually
costs more than the EV in absolute money.

Even the Volt extended-range electric car has fallen victim to this trend,
with 2012 Volt models now commanding $13,050 on average (just a third of its
original cost), or $14,650 in top condition.

Tesla, by the way, is another story entirely. Its cult following, and its
different sales structure, very much oriented toward getting trade-ins and
paying them close attention, as in a Certified Pre-Owned program, means that
even two-year-old Model S sedans are se

[EVDL] EVLN: 200 Renault-Nissan Alliance EVs 4 COP21 UN Climate Summit

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://www.hybridcars.com/renault-nissan-alliance-will-provide-200-evs-to-cop21-un-climate-summit/
Renault-Nissan Alliance Will Provide 200 EVs to COP21 UN Climate Summit
by Jeff Cobb  May 27, 2015 

[image  
http://www.hybridcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/imagesAlliance-668x409.jpg
]
Yesterday the Renault-Nissan Alliance announced it would supply 200
all-electric vehicles as passenger transporters for the United Nation’s
COP21 climate conference in Paris Nov. 30 to Dec. 11.

Cars being provided for this summit with broad climate-remedying aims
include the Renault ZOE and Kangoo Z.E, Nissan Leaf and e-NV200.

The Paris summit’s goals are to have a new global climate-change agreement
in place by the end of 2015 and to begin allocating funds from a Climate
Green Fund, established to help developing countries adapt to climate change
and reduce emissions.

The annual climate summit is expected to see attendance from more than
20,000 U.N. participants from 195 countries.

Renault-Nissan notes this will be the first time the U.N. will use a
zero-emission fleet for its entire passenger car shuttle at a COP event.

“Electric vehicle technology is an efficient solution for a practical and
affordable mode of transportation. This solution has a positive impact on
the climate and air quality in our cities,” said Carlos Ghosn, chairman and
CEO of the Renault-Nissan Alliance. “It’s time to accelerate the shift to
zero-emission mobility by working together with all parties concerned.”

The Renault-Nissan Alliance says it will work with companies in France to
set up a network of more than 50 quick and standard charging stations
powered solely by renewable energy.

“We are delighted to announce that the Renault-Nissan Alliance is an
official partner of COP21 in Paris. Thanks to the Alliance’s fleet of
100-percent electric vehicles, it will contribute to our goal of achieving a
carbon neutral event,” said Laurent Fabius, Minister of Foreign Affairs and
International Development, president of COP21. “The technology of electric
vehicles helps reduce greenhouse gases in the transportation sector
efficiently.”
[© hybridcars.com]



http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2015/05/27/132414-renault-nissan-alliance-official-cop21-passenger-car-partner.html
Renault-Nissan Alliance Official COP21 Passenger Car Partner

[image  
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2015/05/27/132414-renault-nissan-alliance-official-cop21-passenger-car-partner.1.jpg
]

Alliance to provide 200 pure electric vehicles to 2015 Paris climate
conference 
The first fully electric shuttle service for United Nation's climate
conference  
Fleet to include Renault ZOE and Kangoo Z.E, Nissan LEAF and e-NV200 
More than 50 charging stations powered by renewable energy to be established
in and around Paris.  

PARIS -- May 27, 2015: The Renault-Nissan Alliance, the world leader in
zero-emission mobility*, will provide a fleet of 200 all-electric vehicles
as the official passenger-car provider for the United Nation's COP21 climate
conference in Paris later this year.

The partnership agreement was signed today between the Renault-Nissan
Alliance and the General Secretary in charge of the preparation and
organization of the 21st annual Conference of Parties (better known as
COP21). The fully electric car fleet will shuttle delegates during the event
from Nov. 30 to Dec. 11.

More than 20,000 U.N. participants from 195 countries are expected to attend
the annual climate summit. It will be the first time the U.N. will use a
zero-emission fleet for its entire passenger car shuttle at a COP event.

The goals of the Paris summit are to have a new global climate-change
agreement in place by the end of 2015 and to have the Climate Green Fund,
established to help developing countries adapt to climate change and reduce
emissions, start allocating funds.

"We are delighted to announce that the Renault-Nissan Alliance is an
official partner of COP21 in Paris. Thanks to the Alliance's fleet of 100%
electric vehicles, it will contribute to our goal of achieving a carbon
neutral event.  The technology of electric vehicles helps reduce greenhouse
gases in the transportation sector efficiently," said Laurent Fabius,
Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Development, President of
COP21.

"Electric vehicle technology is an efficient solution for a practical and
affordable mode of transportation. This solution has a positive impact on
the climate and air quality in our cities," said Carlos Ghosn, Chairman and
CEO of the Renault-Nissan Alliance. "It's time to accelerate the shift to
zero-emission mobility by working together with all parties concerned."

The COP21 car fleet will feature the Renault ZOE subcompact car, the Renault
Kangoo Z.E. van, the Renault Fluence Z.E. sedan, the Nissan LEAF compact car
and the 7-seater Nissan e-NV200 van. The vehicles will be available to
shuttle delegates 24 hours, seven days week to key venues around the
conference, as a complement to publi

[EVDL] Electric Drive that Fits on Every Skateboard

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/mellow---the-first-electric-drive-that-fits-on-every-skateboard---now-on-kickstarter-505155221.html
Mellow - The First Electric Drive that Fits on Every Skateboard - Now on
Kickstarter

[image  
http://photos.prnewswire.com/prnvar/20150526/745130-a
Mellow - The first electric drive that fits under any skateboard. Product
Shot. Mellow Electric Drive, Urban mobility, Last Mile Vehicle, Electric
Skateboard, Electric Longboard, Mellowboard, Mellow Electric Skateboard
]

HAMBURG, Germany, May 27, 2015 /PRNewswire/ --
Mellow is the first electric drive that fits under any skateboard. At the
launch of Kickstarter Germany, the ambitious start-up Mellow Boards from
Hamburg is presenting its quality product "Made in Germany". 

 (Photo: http://photos.prnewswire.com/prnh/20150526/745130-a )
 (Photo: http://photos.prnewswire.com/prnh/20150526/745130-b )

Since May 12th Kickstarter campaigns can also be launched from Germany. The
Start-Up Mellow Boards from Hamburg was amongst the first German projects to
go live.

Mellow is the first electric drive that fits under every skateboard. Unlike
all other offers on the market, within minutes Mellow can pimp your favorite
board into a high-quality e-board with a top speed of 40km/h (25mph).

But not only the idea comes from Germany. Mellow is the first e-board
project that is 100% "Made in Germany". For quality (2 year warranty) and
sustainability reasons.

Until June 11th you can order the Mellow Drive solo or as a complete setup
with a board. The quicker the better, if you want to catch one of the
limited Early Bird offers.

Mellow in figures 

Top Speed: 40km/h
 Range: 15km
 Weight: 2,5kg
 4 Riding Modes
 Swappable Battery - legal size for air travel
 2year Warranty (Battery 1year)
 Dual-In-Wheel-Motors

Links: 

Kickstarter Campaign:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1800147378/mellow-the-electric-drive-that-fits-under-every-sk

The complete Press-Kit incl. High-Res-Pictures:
http://www.mellowboards.com/mellow-presskit.zip 

Website: http://www.mellowboards.com 

The Founders
ohannes Schewe  Founder, Board-Sports Enthusiast and Sports Economist.
With more than 15 years playing and working in the board-sports industry
Johannes is now putting all his energy into the Kickstarter campaign to make
his dream of - The Endless Ride - finally come true.

Kilian Green  Mellow Cofounder, Mechatronics Engineer. 
The best of both worlds in one body. Kilian is not only a passionate surfer
but also an Ex-BMW electric-car-engineer using his know-how to shape the
future of urban transportation.

PRESS-CONTACT 
Johannes, Schewe, Johannes @mellowboards.de, +49-176-30482922
SOURCE Mellow Boards GmbH
[© prnewswire.com]




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[EVDL] EVent: EVs @usc.edu.au 's wed.org.au festival 10a-4p 6/7 Queensland.au

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://mysunshinecoast.com.au/news/news-display/family-fun-at-environment-festival,38637
Family fun at environment festival
1st of June 2015 

World Environment Day Festival

Come down to the University of the Sunshine Coast this weekend to help
celebrate the 36th annual World Environment Day Festival.
 
 Held on Sunday, June 7 as part of the United Nations World Environment Day
celebrations, the festival is a free event featuring a jam-packed line-up of
more than 90 exhibitors including presenters, community groups, entertainers
and businesses.


 WED festival co-ordinator Matt Dinneen said they are looking forward to
having the biggest display of Electric Vehicles (EVs) ever assembled in
Queensland.

 “It’s pretty hard not to get excited when you are going to see the future
of transport right here on the Sunshine Coast” You can get your opportunity
to speak with the owners of these amazing innovative automobiles, and see
what their EV Journey has been like. You can also grab a free test ride on
an electric Skateboard or ninebot, “what’s a ninebot you say?? Come down on
the 7th of June and find out!!


 The festival will also provide the perfect opportunity to entertain kids
over the Queen’s Birthday long weekend with a dedicated kid’s area featuring
everything from native wildlife shows to science experiments, recycled craft
and plenty of games.
 
 Highlights for kid’s area will include interactive shows from the Young
Scientists of Australia, Geckoes Wildlife Presentations, Bug Kidz and
children’s performer Renata.
 
 “The children’s area is a festival within a festival and its absolutely
fantastic. There is something for everybody,” Mr Dinneen said.
 
 “They get to learn about native wildlife, how to make things out of
recycled materials and they get to be creative, have a great time and make
something.”
 
 “It’s a great place for kids learn about sustainability while having fun.
Besides, who wouldn’t want to make some slime?”
 
 There will be something for everyone with the festival will also feature
talks including exploring the topic of energy poverty and how USC are using
dogs for koala research. The TAFE wearable art fashion parade will amaze you
and the Sunshine Coast Council Eco arts tent will spark your creative
genius.
 
 The festival kicks off at 10am on Sunday with free parking and admission.
Get along for a great family day and help celebrate World Environment Day.

 For further information visit the World Environment Day Festival website on
www.wed.org.au or follow on Fac ebook.

EVENT: Sunshine Coast World Environment Day Festival
 DATE: 7 June 2015
 LOCATION: University of the Sunshine Coast, Sippy Downs
 TIME: 10am – 4pm
 ADMISSION: Free

World Environment Day Festival
 Monday 1st of June 2015
[© mysunshinecoast.com.au]
...
http://www.usc.edu.au/explore/campus/location-and-address
University of the Sunshine Coast, Sippy Downs
90 Sippy Downs Dr, Sippy Downs QLD 4556, Australia +61 7 5430 1234
...
https://goo.gl/maps/Fx743
(map)




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Re: [EVDL] Success!

[tomw via EV]

Yes, I am familiar with some of those guys from endless sphere, but they are
young males.  You remember what that was like right? Completely
invulnerable, more testosterone than brains, get a good laugh out of almost
burning the house down...besides they likely all rent and they are using
small packs so no big loss.  They are also using high specific power lipo
(lithium polymer) cells which are much more fire prone than LiFePO4.  "live
for physics" some time back gave good "golden rules" for using lipo cells:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9170&start=0#p142304

Several people over on diyelectriccar deliberately severely overcharged
LiFePO4 cells and posted video showing them smoking but not catching fire. 
Quite a few people use a version of Lee's "batt bridge" to watch for pack
imbalance, and charge LiFePO4 cells to 3.45V or lower with no bms.  David N.
who sometimes posts here has been doing that without problems for a few
years.  

That method is popular with the "bottom balancers", who are concerned they
will someday run their pack down to zero SoC and want to prevent reversing a
cell or cells so balance them all to the same voltage near the discharge end
of the curve, say 2.5V, and charge their lowest capacity cell to 3.45V or
lower. A number of methods work, some just require more diligence and
discipline than others.  I think it is easy to become complacent after years
of no problems, then as the pack ages there is the possibility that some
cells start developing high internal resistance or loose some capacity
resulting in eventually overcharging one.  That's why I'd rather have a bms
with HVC and LVC, and of course almost everyone uses a charge counter so
they know the SoC of the pack.  Mine is set to repeatedly flash "LOW CHARGE"
at 35% SoC. 

Most people make a mistake when they are just getting started with charging
cells and are still figuring out how it all works, what to check, and how
fast voltage changes on the exponential parts of the curve, during charging
and discharging.  That is why for years people have been saying "stay away
from the ends of the charge/discharge curve".



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Re: [EVDL] Success!

[Cor van de Water via EV]

...when your *bicycle* does the standing-start quarter mile in 11.5 sec 
finishing at 110 MPH
then you have a good mental picture of what Tom quoted...
Not many freeway capable 4-wheel electric vehicles can compete with this 
"bicycle"

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626  Skype: cor_van_de_water
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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of tomw via EV
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 7:21 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Success!

Yes, I am familiar with some of those guys from endless sphere, but they are 
young males.  You remember what that was like right? Completely invulnerable, 
more testosterone than brains, get a good laugh out of almost burning the house 
down...besides they likely all rent and they are using small packs so no big 
loss.  They are also using high specific power lipo (lithium polymer) cells 
which are much more fire prone than LiFePO4.  "live for physics" some time back 
gave good "golden rules" for using lipo cells:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9170&start=0#p142304

Several people over on diyelectriccar deliberately severely overcharged
LiFePO4 cells and posted video showing them smoking but not catching fire. 
Quite a few people use a version of Lee's "batt bridge" to watch for pack 
imbalance, and charge LiFePO4 cells to 3.45V or lower with no bms.  David N.
who sometimes posts here has been doing that without problems for a few years.  

That method is popular with the "bottom balancers", who are concerned they will 
someday run their pack down to zero SoC and want to prevent reversing a cell or 
cells so balance them all to the same voltage near the discharge end of the 
curve, say 2.5V, and charge their lowest capacity cell to 3.45V or lower. A 
number of methods work, some just require more diligence and discipline than 
others.  I think it is easy to become complacent after years of no problems, 
then as the pack ages there is the possibility that some cells start developing 
high internal resistance or loose some capacity resulting in eventually 
overcharging one.  That's why I'd rather have a bms with HVC and LVC, and of 
course almost everyone uses a charge counter so they know the SoC of the pack.  
Mine is set to repeatedly flash "LOW CHARGE"
at 35% SoC. 

Most people make a mistake when they are just getting started with charging 
cells and are still figuring out how it all works, what to check, and how fast 
voltage changes on the exponential parts of the curve, during charging and 
discharging.  That is why for years people have been saying "stay away from the 
ends of the charge/discharge curve".



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[EVDL] Altieva hiring

[Paul Wujek via EV]

Atieva (founded by Tesla alum) going on a massive hiring spree; looking 
to hire many hardware engineers, software engineers, mechanical 
engineers, IT support, etc.


http://atieva.com/

--
*Paul Wujek*  about 
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[EVDL] How is a Tesla S like a Model T?

[Mike Beem via EV]

I have to qualify this question by saying that I haven't seen that many;
however, they have all been Black Black Black. Which made me think today of
Henry Ford's response about choices for the Model T.  In Henry Ford´s 1923
autobiography Henry Ford - My life and work he quotes himself as saying
"Any customer can have a car painted any colour he wants so long as it is
black.".
What other colors have other EV watchers seen?
Michael B
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Re: [EVDL] How is a Tesla S like a Model T?

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Most Model S that I have seen are white or red or grey,
although I regularly see a local Model S that has a funny color,
it looks like dark green metallic but when the light is just right,
it gets a purple glow.
If you look at the pics from the two Guinness world record EV events
(Cupertino and Berlin) then you can see about 100 Model S in all the usual 
colors.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626  Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130  private: cvandewater.info
www.proxim.com


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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mike Beem via EV
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 6:17 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] How is a Tesla S like a Model T?

I have to qualify this question by saying that I haven't seen that many; 
however, they have all been Black Black Black. Which made me think today of 
Henry Ford's response about choices for the Model T.  In Henry Ford´s 1923 
autobiography Henry Ford - My life and work he quotes himself as saying "Any 
customer can have a car painted any colour he wants so long as it is black.".
What other colors have other EV watchers seen?
Michael B
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Re: [EVDL] How is a Tesla S like a Model T?

[Mark Grasser via EV]

Interesting, All I have ever seen is red.

Sincerely,
Mark Grasser -  Subject: [EVDL] How is a Tesla S like a Model T?

I have to qualify this question by saying that I haven't seen that many; 
however, they have all been Black Black Black. Which made me think today of 
Henry Ford's response about choices for the Model T.  In Henry Ford´s 1923 
autobiography Henry Ford - My life and work he quotes himself as saying "Any 
customer can have a car painted any colour he wants so long as it is black.".
What other colors have other EV watchers seen?
Michael B
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Re: [EVDL] How is a Tesla S like a Model T?

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Or google images of Tesla Model S and you will see that black, white and red 
are the most common occurrences, but grey and dark blue apparently are also 
quite common.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626  Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130  private: cvandewater.info
www.proxim.com


This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and 
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received this 
message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any unauthorized 
use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is 
prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mark Grasser via EV
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 6:29 PM
To: 'Mike Beem'; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How is a Tesla S like a Model T?

Interesting, All I have ever seen is red.

Sincerely,
Mark Grasser -  Subject: [EVDL] How is a Tesla S like a Model T?

I have to qualify this question by saying that I haven't seen that many; 
however, they have all been Black Black Black. Which made me think today of 
Henry Ford's response about choices for the Model T.  In Henry Ford´s 1923 
autobiography Henry Ford - My life and work he quotes himself as saying "Any 
customer can have a car painted any colour he wants so long as it is black.".
What other colors have other EV watchers seen?
Michael B
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Re: [EVDL] How is a Tesla S like a Model T?

[Mike Nickerson via EV]

Mine is red.  I'm organizing a gathering of EVs with 4 Tesla later this month.  
We will have 2 red, 1 white and 1 black.  Last year, we had 3.  They were 1 
blue, 1 green and 1 black.

That is most of the Tesla vehicles in Boise.

Mike


On June 2, 2015 7:17:19 PM MDT, Mike Beem via EV  wrote:
>I have to qualify this question by saying that I haven't seen that
>many;
>however, they have all been Black Black Black. Which made me think
>today of
>Henry Ford's response about choices for the Model T.  In Henry Ford´s
>1923
>autobiography Henry Ford - My life and work he quotes himself as saying
>"Any customer can have a car painted any colour he wants so long as it
>is
>black.".
>What other colors have other EV watchers seen?
>Michael B
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><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150602/c20da204/attachment.htm>
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Re: [EVDL] How is a Tesla S like a Model T?

[Al Lumas via EV]

Ive seen Black, White, Red, Burgundy, and Gray.
Saw a white and a gray today. One on Hwy 880, the 
other on Hwy 237 in Milpitas.

Al Lumas

At 06:17 PM 6/2/2015, Mike Beem via EV wrote:
I have to qualify this question by saying that I 
haven't seen that many; however, they have all 
been Black Black Black. Which made me think 
today of Henry Ford's response about choices for 
the Model T.  In Henry Ford´s 1923 
autobiography Henry Ford - My life and work he 
quotes himself as saying "Any customer can have 
a car painted any colour he wants so long as it 
is black.". What other colors have other EV watchers seen? Michael B


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Re: [EVDL] How is a Tesla S like a Model T?

[William Dennis via EV]

I saw one brown one.  Looked a bit unappealing to me.

Bill

On Jun 2, 2015 7:17 PM, Mike Beem via EV  wrote:
>
> I have to qualify this question by saying that I haven't seen that many;
> however, they have all been Black Black Black. Which made me think today of
> Henry Ford's response about choices for the Model T.  In Henry Ford´s 1923
> autobiography Henry Ford - My life and work he quotes himself as saying
> "Any customer can have a car painted any colour he wants so long as it is
> black.".
> What other colors have other EV watchers seen?
> Michael B
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