Re: [EVDL] (ot): EVLN EV newswire status ...

[Willie2 via EV]

On 12/16/2017 11:09 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

  I
plan to avoid large cities to minimize traffic jams, etc. (map)
https://goo.gl/maps/zBuMbT71Npr


Do you plan to hit the EV museum in Kingman?  Worth the effort, IMHO.
An interesting segment of Route 66 is between Needles and Kingman; goes 
through the little tourist town of Oatman and then over the Sitgreaves Pass.


Also, you should take a look at Ira Yates' charging station in Iraan.   
Ira has been a longish term Austin EV proponent.  At least since he 
bought one of the early Tesla Roadsters.


Good luck!

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Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the question

[Willie2 via EV]

On 10/04/2016 12:29 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

on the battery as the Leaf *does* degrade its battery by 40% to approx
60% capacity in approx 50k mi in warmer climates (that is the point
where Nissan gives a warranty battery replacement, even though they
promised 70% but re-calibated the battery to lose the 4th bar around 60%
capacity and triggering the warranty if it occurs within the warranty
limits for time and mileage.)
When I first got my Leaf, I was astonished at how crappy the 
instrumentation is/was.  Coming from the conversion world, I expected to 
see, or find out, how much energy went into the battery and how much 
came out.  Instead, I had these twelve "bars". Unacceptable 
granularity.  Later, I found the "bars" were not even of equal value.  
After some pondering, I came to the conclusion that Nissan did things in 
that way to hide information from their customers.  What other 
explanation could there be?


Even more astonishing is how Leaf owners accept the situation and speak 
of almost meaningless "bars".  I'm not surprised to learn that Nissan 
dynamically recalibrates "bars" to manage their warranty threshold.


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Re: [EVDL] Should I Buy a Smart ED or a IMIEV or Chevy Spark?: 2014 Smart ED Service Manual Help

[Willie2 via EV]

On 10/01/2016 07:10 PM, Mark Hanson via EV wrote:

Hi Folks,

  


I didn't get a response on the service manual or where to get a battery for
the Smart ED 2013 - 2015 (used Smart) so I'm thinking maybe I should buy
something else (since the shop manuals/batteries are made of Unobtanium).
I Googled Service manuals for the Mitsubishi IMIev and Chevy Spark; were
available online like the Leaf.  It also looked like you could monitor
individual battery voltages, not sure if you can do that with the Smart ED.


I'm assuming you're shopping for a low range EV with a battery that can 
be cost effectively replaced when the time comes?


I bought an early Leaf expecting that I could replace the battery with 
something bigger, better, and cheaper after 5-10 years.  My Leaf battery 
lasted two years and Nissan refused to fix it.  I then bought a Tesla 
S.  Best car I've ever owned.  Since getting the Tesla, I've bought two 
imievs which seemed to be extraordinary values.  Both new, one cost a 
net of about $14k, the other about $8k.  I drive them in preference to 
the Tesla when trip length allows.  The jury is out on imiev battery 
longevity.  I've seen no alarming reports such as with Leaf.  But I have 
only about 10k miles and 4k miles on mine.  No detectable loss of 
capacity.  On the Tesla, about 83k miles with 90+% capacity.


There is an app for imievs which seems to have much more detailed 
monitoring than the terrible dash instrumentation.  I used to fiddle 
with the app but found dealing with the Android device too tedious.  And 
distracting.


I STILL look forward to having "cheaper, bigger, better" batteries 
available through non-OEM channels.


I would suggest getting in line for a Model 3 and just toughing it out 
until it arrives.  Maybe lease a lesser car.


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Re: [EVDL] New EV world record set

[Willie2 via EV]

On 09/26/2016 06:00 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

That is interesting, too bad it is irrelevant since Hydrogen passenger
cars are not viable, but we have been over that before so I won't start
that again.
It is just sad that so many millions of dollars are wasted on this,
instead of pushing the current viable technologies further ahead.
Oh well, eventually we'll all see the light, time will tell what will
come out ahead.

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mark Abramowitz
via EV
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 1:54 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] New EV world record set


1,438 all-electric miles in 24 hours!

http://vrl.ht/3r3Rf

About a year ago, I covered about 1500 miles in about 35 hours in my 
Tesla.  One driver.  I napped during charges.  I did some slow driving 
when I mis-estimated my energy needs for a couple of legs. I believe an 
average of about 60 mph is possible with only moderately illegal 
speeds.  Two drivers would make things go more smoothly.  And a 
navigator to avoid energy estimation blunders.

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Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

[Willie2 via EV]

On 09/24/2016 11:13 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

Warning Will Robinson.  The EVSE you selected are not good for modern EV's.  
Only 3.3kw.  They may not work with 6.6kw chargers.  Lawrence Rhodes
It had not occurred to me that a 6.6kw charger would demand "all or 
nothing".  Is that a possibility?  That is, might a Leaf with a 6.6kw 
charger refuse to charge unless it was offered the full 6.6kw and would 
fail to charge at an EVSE that offered only 3.3kw?



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Re: [EVDL] NiCd (BB600): Golf Cart& Forklift PbSO4 battery alternatives

[Willie2 via EV]

On 09/03/2016 01:25 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

IMO, Lee's idea of switching to NiCd is best ...>bottom line (jumping to the
end of my long internet searches) ... look at
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marathon-Flooded-Plate-NiCad-NiCd-batteries-11AC20-11Ah-aircraft-radio-medical-/281788934148?hash=item419bede804:g:5TwAAOSw1vlUt4~S

Since these are in Austin, I am willing to pick some up and either hold 
or deliver them to certain places sometime in the future.  I have no 
interest in them for myself.


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Re: [EVDL] Fwd: Re: France fire model S

[Willie2 via EV]

On 08/19/2016 01:16 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

Mark said:

Any negative coverage is usually about the stock or
about Musk's consistent over-promises, and usually such a comment
will be followed by a comment that the cars are great.

...Which is pretty much what Fox "news" was saying
For good measure they threw in a sensationalist statement how the
Lithium Ion batteries are so dangerous (as if liquid fuel is not).
They came up near the top of the search so I accidentally
clicked on their "video of the fire"
which was just the same photo as everyone else had with their anchors
talking, I was reminded why I never like to watch TV. Closing the
browser window felt like turning off the TV when I still had one.
I feel like taking a shower.
I don't recall seeing this article when it was fresh, but I just this 
morning encountered a link to it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/koch-electric-vehicles_us_56c4d63ce4b0b40245c8cbf6

In Texas, we tend to attribute the media bias against Tesla to the very 
influential and entrenched auto dealers.  But, it is only a very small 
aspect of the conflict.  A small skirmish in a large war.


I tend to admire rather than hate the Koch brothers.  Generally.


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Re: [EVDL] Fwd: Re: France fire model S

[Willie2 via EV]

On 08/18/2016 05:40 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 18 Aug 2016 at 13:35, damon henry via EV wrote:


Of course I know nothing about the TV station involved either, I just
find the original assertion nonsensical and highly unlikely.
Damon  somehow got the impression the comments were in response to 
specific media coverage.  It was not.  It was an observation on the 
excessive coverage of the French Tesla fire in all media outlets. As 
illustrated by Bruce's search results.

I have some previous professional involvement in broadcast media. Most news
directors will tell you that there's a "firewall" (no pun intended) between
the sales department and the news department.

However, in practice this barrier gets breached.  Management will sometimes
ask (or tell) news to soft-pedal negative stories about the station's or
network's advertisers.  The more they spend, and the longer they've spent,
the more likely this is to happen.

As for deliberately playing up negative stories about non-advertisers, I
can't say it never happens, but I personally haven't witnessed it.  In this
case, my guess is that the individual reporters or news directors involved
just have an anti-EV bias.  This should be no surprise.  Lots of folks do,
especially gear-heads who get their kicks from ICEVs.  For these people the
ICE stink and noise are features, not bugs.
For years here in Texas, we have been following the efforts to unfetter 
Tesla sales restraints.  Almost no legislative progress has been made.  
It certainly seems that Texas Automotive Dealers Association controls 
our state government.  They are BIG advertisers in all branches of the 
media.  Many pages in newspapers.  Hours every day on TV.  The TADA 
position is that Tesla should engage independent dealers to sell their 
cars.  That is despite the obvious interest of dealers to sell cars that 
demand a lot of maintenance and repair.  The media refuses to report the 
true story: that going through dealers would kill Tesla sales.


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Re: [EVDL] Fwd: Re: France fire model S

[Willie2 via EV]

On 08/18/2016 12:39 PM, damon henry via EV wrote:

I'm going to have to call BS on this theory.  Can you even begin to count the number of 
consumer products from the number of different companies that do not advertise on TV.  I 
do not recall ever seeing a yacht manufacturer commercial on any of the TV stations I 
have watched.  If I did watch any of these so called "News" channels I'm pretty 
confident I would not see any negative news stories about yacht makers just because they 
are not advertising on these stations.  I could list category after category of products 
like this...
The OP failed to make the obvious point that Tesla's competitors ARE 
heavy advertisers.  The "yacht makers", whose competitors are not 
bringing pressure to the media, is a poor analogy.


Thanks to Bruce for illustrating the astonishing volume of coverage of 
that insignificant incident.


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[EVDL] Fwd: Re: France fire model S

[Willie2 via EV]

On the topic of EV media bias in general and the astonishing amount of 
coverage being given to the French Tesla fire, this was posted to a 
local Tesla list and I deemed it worth repeating here:


---

No TV station is going to like a car company that is doing a great job 
at increasing its sales, profit and revenue *without placing any 
commercials on television whatsoever*, and that's exactly what Tesla is 
doing.


Therefore, there is a whole lot of negative bias - founded on suspicion, 
basically - regarding Tesla on *commercial television channels*.


Fox and CNBC are two examples of where I see negative Tesla bias on a 
daily basis.

---
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

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Re: [EVDL] hub motor for 20" wheels

[Willie2 via EV]

On 08/13/2016 04:29 PM, ken via EV wrote:

   I have a Bike E with 20" back wheel . Where can I find a reasonably
priced wheel thats desgined to be effeient for  that RPM / 20- 25 mph
and 36 volts.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=20%22+ebike+conversion+kit
http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=20%22+ebike+conversion+kit

Here is a 36v rear:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-48V-500W-20-Threaded-Rear-Wheel-Ebike-Conversion-Kit-Sine-Wave-Controller-/331747947601?hash=item4d3db7f451:g:LRgAAOSw7FRWVXcc


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[EVDL] semi off topic

[Willie2 via EV]

Since David hasn't started playing whack-a-mole on this, I'll pretend 
that it is semi on topic.  It seems reasonable to discuss the source of 
energy used to drive our EVs.


I visited Las Vegas (for the first time) this past December.  I was 
struck by two situations that offended my delicate Texas sensibilities:


1) The acceptance, even embracing, of criminality.  One example:

http://themobmuseum.org/


2) The recent Nevada state government rejection of net metering. 
Established and thriving roof top solar installers were driven out of 
business in Nevada.  In Texas, net metering is accepted with little to 
no opposition from any quarter.  All the electric providers I know of 
provide attractive incentives to install personal PV systems.  My 
provider gives full credit for energy temporarily stored on the grid; 
that amounts to personal production being worth about $.11/kwh.  At the 
end of the year, if you are a net producer, you are paid a wholesale 
rate for your excess production; that is currently about $.05/kwh.  I'm 
not familiar with the details but Nevada residents now have to pay a 
surcharge of about $50 a month to push energy to the grid. Perhaps 
someone from Nevada can illuminate.


Perhaps the two items are related.

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Re: [EVDL] Solar haves and have nots

[Willie2 via EV]

On 08/13/2016 12:03 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

The grid will actually need less spinning reserves with solar than they
have now.  When we think solar is "variable" then we are ignoring the fact
that when a coal or  nuke or gas plant drops off line due to any number of
*routine* causes, the drop on the grid woiuld be catastrophic.  Hence, the
grid already maintains spinning reserves at least equal to their biggest
single plant at any time.

Solar *never* goes down like that.  Solar is quite predictable and on
partly cloudy days the clouds are not everywhere at once.  So the spinning
reserve argument does not hold water when you compare the backup needed for
a centralized plant compared to distributed solar.  Its just obfuscation.
An interesting situation developed in Texas a few years ago.  There was 
legislative stimulus to build wind and a very large industry developed 
in west Texas.  At the time it was building out, the "grid", ERCOT, 
estimated it could accommodate no more than about 5% wind energy due to 
the unpredictability.  Since, the peak wind has, at times, been around 
15%.  Accommodating that relatively large fraction seems to be due to 
high quality forecasts.  I believe they need something like an hour to 
bring natural gas generation up to speed to fill a shortage.  The 
infrastructure to get the power from west Texas to the consuming areas 
in the central and eastern areas of the state was built out.  It turns 
out, the wind produces mostly in the evenings and nights and the 
transmission infrastructure is largely unused mid-day.  Now, there is 
developing a large west Texas solar industry which already has the 
transmission infrastructure in place.


Oops!  My 15% number is a year old:
http://www.utilitydive.com/news/ercot-wind-energy-provided-record-45-of-electricity-on-dec-20/412241/
Also interesting reading:
http://www.utilitydive.com/news/ercot-wind-solar-nearly-two-thirds-new-capacity-in-2016/415715/


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Re: [EVDL] Which one china lifepo4 60 Ah?

[Willie2 via EV]

On 08/13/2016 07:32 AM, Cruisin via EV wrote:

None of the Chinese LifePO4 cells will last long. How many electric cars use
that chemistry?


YMMV

I have a ~10 year old ThunderSky LFP pack that has given me more than 
50k miles; about 5 of the 48 cells have been replaced.  The pack is 
still at around 80%.  In contrast, my Leaf gave me ~25k miles and was 
below 70% in only two years.  ThunderSky did not have a useful 
warranty.  Nissan refused to honor their warranty.  I'd rather deal with 
ThunderSky than Nissan.


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Re: [EVDL] Which one china lifepo4 60 Ah?

[Willie2 via EV]

On 08/13/2016 07:32 AM, Cruisin via EV wrote:

None of the Chinese LifePO4 cells will last long. How many electric cars use
that chemistry?
My perception is that LFP is not very popular due to relatively low 
energy density.  Also, I think LFP may be a little higher cost.  I think 
Nissan went with cheaper LiMn (with disastrous results) because of 
cost.  LiMn seem to have a life of around 800 cycles while LFP can go to 
1000-4000.



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Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a driverless (autonomous) Lyft platform

[Willie2 via EV]

On 07/29/2016 08:00 AM, Chris Tromley via EV wrote:

Trying to jump the gun, or even worse, calling what we have now "autopilot"
is beyond idiotic.  I have a great deal of respect for Elon Musk, but that
is the stupidest thing I've seen him do.

Have you driven a Tesla with AutoPilot?

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Re: [EVDL] Subject: Tractor conversion

[Willie2 via EV]

On 07/18/2016 09:45 AM, Steve Clunn via EV wrote:

I semi completed my tractor, which can be seen at:

http://www.greenshedconversions.com/Pages/Projects.aspx   Second Project
down.

After completing it, I realized a few things.  I used an Electric Car Motor
from an Old Conversion ( not a Warp9), that had the Pressure Plate on it
and I was able to put the tractor clutch inside, but do not have the clutch
peddle working.  I thought I would not need a clutch, but the problem is,
  The Flywheel is so heavy and the gearing on the tractor so low, that it
takes half a minute for the flywheel to slow down and even with standing on
the brakes, the tractor still creeps along.  So keeping a working clutch, I
believe, might be important.
Are you sure your momentum problem is coming from the flywheel?  My 
experience is that big low pressure rear tires eat momentum pretty 
fast.  I have had some "tractor keeps going" problems when a high 
momentum implement, such as a shredder, is attached to a PTO that is not 
"live".  That is, one that is always attached to the rear wheels.  I 
found this not particularly illuminating:

http://www.tractordata.com/articles/technical/pto.html

But, I agree I need to more closely examine my inclination to not have a 
clutch.


Are you operating your tractor at around 2000 rpm?



Some of the Logicsystem Controllers seem to work OK, especially the first
generation.  I still have one on my Dixie Chopper.  Of course, not running
them at their rated Peak Voltage seems to help.

I THINK I have an old Russco that may serve.  I'm trying to locate it.


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[EVDL] Tractor conversion

[Willie2 via EV]

https://plus.google.com/102434734002949174273/posts/QGYjoRenrbz

Due to parts on hand, I'm thinking of a Warp9 and 48v-72v of TS 260ah 
cells.  If room can be found, maybe paired 2p by 18s or 24s.


I think I may have Curtis controllers that were previously used at 120v 
and/or 144v.  I don't know it they will work at lower voltage. I also 
have a Logisystem that is supposed to go down to ~70v.  But I hate to 
waste time and money on something doomed to failure like the Logisystem.


Comments/recommendations welcome.
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Re: [EVDL] ISO Custom Lithium Pack info

[Willie2 via EV]

On 06/22/2016 02:47 PM, Matt Parkhouse via EV wrote:

Would you be willing to device the pack?
I have a "neighbourhood vehicle based on a 48 volt EzGo golf cart system.   I'd 
love to switch from lead-acid to lithium...

I recently happened upon these folks:
http://lithiumboost.com/
They use one charger per cell.
As I recall, they quoted me about $1k for twelve cells worth.  BMS only, 
no cells.  I asked about the harsh golf cart environment. They 
equivocated.  "Well you need to put in splash guards".


I have several 36v golf carts with very troublesome miniBMS setups.

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Re: [EVDL] Driving a Leaf from... Regenerative braking?

[Willie2 via EV]

On 06/17/2016 02:42 PM, paul dove via EV wrote:

I agree Bob,
I have an i-MiEV and it has three modes.

Drive - good acceleration minimal regenerative braking.ECO - reduced 
acceleration stronger regenerative brakingB - not sure what that stands for but 
it has the same acceleration as drive but the maximum regenerative braking.
I drove for a long time in ECO ( 14 months) and would drop to B when coming to 
a stop.
I drive in "B" all the time, believing it gives me maximum regen. To 
avoid regen when "coasting", I feather the throttle so zero power is 
indicated.  This works well also on the Tesla.  When I had a Leaf, I was 
disappointed in the anemic regen.  With imievs, I am disappointed in 
time lag before regen activates; I tend to compensate by letting off the 
throttle earlier than I would in the Tesla.

I recently switched to driving in D and the popping up to Neutral to coast and 
braking normally.
My range went up by between 4 to 6 miles using D as opposed to using ECO. In 
fact I got 68 miles of range on Tuesday and that's the furthest I have ever 
gone.
As mentioned, I have no experience with anything other than "D".  I have 
noticed and tested that the range can be extended to about 90 miles if I 
am able to hold the speed to about 30mph.  I'm generally satisfied with 
with about 65 miles at about 55 mph.


I would prefer that regen only kick in when I hit the brake, I think this would 
help extend the range.
I can't agree.  That was one of my complaints about a Leaf.  One can not 
easily tell when friction braking kicks in.  With the Tesla, it is 
possible to almost entirely avoid using the brake pedal.  "One pedal 
driving".  On your imiev, I suggest you try to avoid regen by watching 
your power meter.  The strategy, of course, is to never friction brake 
and avoid regen unless you wish to brake.


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Re: [EVDL] Driving a Leaf from San Francisco to Santa Cruz and back.

[Willie2 via EV]

On 06/16/2016 11:52 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

I work as a musician as some of you know and I am part of the Freeway Philharmonic. 
 I have to play a choral concert in Santa Cruz this month.  I did my two ball 
routine which gives me on average 5miles per kw.  By the time I hit the summit of 
the Santa Cruz mountain I was down to 20 miles and 4 to 5 bars.  When I got to 
Santa Cruz by coasting and using Eco drive and drive as braking I was up to 43 
miles and 4 bars.  When driving home I was at 2 bars and 17 miles.  I account for 
the difference: driving home at night, against the wind & it was colder. But I 
accomplished a drive which I was told was impossible on one charge in either 
direction because of the mountain.  Myth busted.  Lawrence Rhodes


Congrats. Lawrence!

For those of us not familiar with California, more route details would 
be interesting.  It is not so much the total up and down on a route but 
the difference in elevation between start and end of trip.  And, of 
course, the total road distance.  Can you provide those two pieces of data?


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Dear CA-jackhole ... Tesla-Royalty's arrogant haughty supercilious behavior

[Willie2 via EV]

On 06/10/2016 04:50 PM, Mike Nickerson via EV wrote:

When you back into the SuperCharger, there is only about 6-8" between the car 
and the signs.  I could believe that the car wouldn't fit if it had a couple of 
bikes in a rack.

However, most SuperCharger installations have at least one port where you can 
pull in head first.  That would be the one to use with a bike rack.

I hit 3 or 4 SuperChargers on a trip pulling a trailer.  I had intended 
to unhook before charging but I found, in each case, no other cars 
charging so I was able to park crosswise, taking up 3 or more charge 
stations.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Had the i3 design vision been better it could have competed with the Tesla-3 EV

[Willie2 via EV]

On 06/10/2016 11:33 AM, paul dove via EV wrote:

That depends on your definition of better.
I chose the i-MiEV because of the battery it uses and the cheap price.
It uses the Yuasa LEV 50 50Ah 3.7 Volt (nominal)

The  cells were fabricated using LiFePO4/graphite chemistry. The cells are able 
to supply the stable output-power over wide range of 10 to 90% SOC. The cells 
can be charged over 90% SOC within 30 minutes at 25 C. The cells have superior 
safety on the crush and overcharge tests.

I love it!

I've said so before, but I agree.   Give me a 40-50 kwh battery, though!

The main problem with the imiev is that it has been orphaned. Mitsubishi 
seems to have little interest in selling them.  A very common story with 
EVs.  Sadly.  I had to go 200 miles to buy one imiev and 150 to buy the 
other.


Early on, Mitsubishi said they were going to offer a 20kwh battery in 
addition to the 16kwh.  They apparently never did.


I love my imievs in part because I feel like I can depend on the 
battery.  Where Nissan screwed it's early Leaf purchasers.  For many of 
my purposes, the size is better than the Leaf or Tesla.


Negatives:  they get stuck easily.  Spare wheels are difficult to come 
by.  I expect new tires will be equally troublesome.  Different sizes, 
front and back!Incidentally, I learned on the imiev forum that Honda 
Fit donut spares will serve.  Since buying a couple of Fit spares, I'm 
waiting for my next flat to see. The idiotic creep is there whether you 
want it or not.


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Re: [EVDL] Ebike motors

[Willie2 via EV]

On 06/09/2016 09:11 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

Willie,
did the old motor connect with 2 wires (red+ and black-)
or 3 wires (phases)? And the new motor?
I'll take a look tomorrow.  I suppose a different number of wires means 
changing the controller.


The new kit has the thing that can be used to require pedaling. "PAS", I 
think.  Since my hands/wrists don't like to keep the throttle held open, 
I thinking of using the PAS.  Is that a good thing or a bad thing?



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[EVDL] Ebike motors

[Willie2 via EV]

My 36v Prodeco has been making alarming noises whenever the motor is 
powered.  I decided to just buy a conversion kit to get the (front) 
wheel assembly.  It came today and I notice the motor is much larger 
diameter than the old motor.  I believe the new one is touted as "BLDC".


I had hoped to just hook up the new motor to the old controller. Perhaps 
I should have second thoughts since the motors may be of different types.


Who can inform me?

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[EVDL] 12v tales

[Willie2 via EV]

I was CONSTANTLY being stranded in my conversions due to dead 12v. 
Mostly, from dead DC-DCs.  I had GaryK, against his advice, rig a jumper 
from 4 LFP cells to the lead 12v.  Dead 12v?  Install the jumper and 
drive home.  Worry about the imbalance later.  Once, when my DC-DC was 
not working, I installed a pair of golf cart batteries in the passenger 
foot well.


I've run the 12v down on my first imiev twice.  Both from inadverntly 
leaving the key on.  For those not familiar with imievs, their idiotic 
design forces one to twist the key against a spring to "crank the 
engine".  Having the key on runs accessories but not the DC-DC.


The Tesla has not stranded me with a dead 12v.  It warns of impending 
failure.  I'm on my 3rd lead 12v in the Tesla.  I have a lithium 12v 
ready to go in for the 4th.

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Re: [EVDL] 72 volt swapable scooter battery

[Willie2 via EV]

On 05/10/2016 10:48 AM, ken via EV wrote:

  I'm looking for 1 to use as craw home type of thing. like 72 volt 20 amp hr.

60 ah burst , 30 ahr steady. w/ BMS . some thing with a plastic case n
anderson. maybe with pouch cells ? some that has been tryed n proven.

I've bought several such things through AliExpress from 24v up to 144v.  
Typically sold as ebike batteries.  SB50 connectors are common.


http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=lithium+ebike+batteries

Lee will tell you, and I don't question him, that Ping is the quality 
supplier:

http://www.pingbattery.com/search.php?search_query=72v=0=0

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Re: [EVDL] Hotel Chargers

[Willie2 via EV]

On 04/28/2016 05:24 AM, Jukka Järvinen via EV wrote:

head to Finland! After 2017 tours available to new battery factory too. ;)

You are teasing us, Jukka?


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Miners pin hopes on Electric copper-cars

[Willie2 via EV]

On 04/14/2016 03:56 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 14 Apr 2016 at 0:06, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


Copper remains the best electrical conductor available

Nope, that would be silver.

Now, if you consider cost-effectiveness, that's another matter.  But that's
not what the man said.

What he said (or was quoted as saying):

“Copper remains the best electrical conductor available and this will be
more and more important in a world where energy efficiency is a priority,”

"Available" can easily be taken to mean "feasible in cost".  In that 
sense, super conductors are not available just as silver is not. "Best" 
can also be taken to mean "least costly".


Which brings to mind aluminum.  As I understand, aluminum is "better" 
than copper in that it moves more power with lower weight and cost.




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Re: [EVDL] $12/30min L3 EVSE @7 Spinx station & convenience stores

[Willie2 via EV]

On 04/03/2016 07:25 PM, John Lindsay via EV wrote:

We dream of electricity that cheap in Australia.

Now that I drive a Tesla and not a little conversion I'm noticing that cost a 
little more. Solar panels, battery and inverter just for the car are on the way.

John Lindsay


On 4 Apr 2016, at 10:16 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV  wrote:


On 3 Apr 2016 at 0:56, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

$11.95 if a charge were to take 30 minutes.

I think our marginal electric costs are about $.09 now.  A decrease of 
he past year or two.  That's presumably due to cheap natural gas.  Our 
fuel mix is coal (local lignite and Wyoming hard coal), nuclear, natural 
gas.  Every thing new is going in natural gas.


My imiev takes at least 20 minutes to get to 80% on chademo.  That's 
only 10-12 kwh, typically.  The "50kw" chademos I've seen do 30-40kw.  
At the mentioned rates, I imagine my cost would be around $1/kwh.  About 
$.20/mile compared to about $.03/mile charging at home.   An emergency 
only situation.




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Re: [EVDL] Using the L3 port to charge your EV at 10kW off a 50A dryer outlet

[Willie2 via EV]

On 03/31/2016 10:19 AM, tomw via EV wrote:

Yes, if you want chademo.  I thought the OP just wanted 10kW charging.  If
you want to use a public L3 chademo, or use the chademo Juicebox, then yes,
you need the contactors and communications necessary for it. If you want to
charge at the full 25kW of the higher power EMW chargers you need either
100A at 240VAC single phase, or a source of 3 phase.  I think EMW was
selling a 3D printed chademo plug for around $1k.  10kW is fairly easy,
chademo is a much more expensive option.
I believe the OP was Bruce suggesting higher than 3kw home charging for 
an imiev.  Unless you want to dig into the car, that means chademo.



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Re: [EVDL] Using the L3 port to charge your EV at 10kW off a 14-50 50A dryer outlet

[Willie2 via EV]

On 03/29/2016 07:24 PM, David Nelson via EV wrote:

I have been considering this very thing. Not only could I charge a little
faster it also means if for some reason the OBC quit I could still charge
at home.

Me, too.

The EMotorWerks solution is about $4k.  I could feed it as much as 80 
amps single phase 240vac, about 20kw.  60 amps, 15kw, would be easier.  
The onboard imiev charger pulls about 2.7kw.  I have several 
semi-conveniently positioned currently free chademos 30-50 miles distant 
from me.  So, especially with two imievs, the 5x increase in charging 
speed at home is interesting and enticing, but not compelling.


Since my Tesla will charge at home at up to 80 amps (60 amps easily), 
the chademo would have no advantage for that car.

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Re: [EVDL] Good i-Miev Hunting ...

[Willie2 via EV]

On 03/27/2016 02:21 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-EVLN-When-will-Tesla-s-electricity-come-to-the-Ag-farm-tp4681160p4681170.html
  ... The imiev makes a great "around the farm" vehicle, ...  It also hauls
supplies well ... for deliveries where the range will allow; at times, I
make two imiev trips rather than one Tesla trip ... I am forced to buy
imievs from distances of 150-200 miles. The tales of getting them home
belongs elsewhere ...
]
I bought my first one December 2014 in Plano (Dallas) for essentially 
full price, about $26k including TTL.  At that time, Texas had a $2.5k 
incentive for only EVs bought from dealers.  Screw you, Teslaites.  So, 
total incentives were $10k making the car $16k.  Which, at the time, I 
thought was a great deal.  I believe I reported here how I got it home:  
towed it with a rope about 30 out of every 80 miles.  Pulling with a 
rope was a bit tedious/stressful because of the need to anticipate tow 
car slowing.  In about 30 miles of towing, I could put about 50 miles 
worth of energy in the battery.  The imiev manual says, in no uncertain 
terms, not to tow with the rear wheels on the ground.  I figured, 
apparently correctly, that the car could not tell if it were going down 
a long hill or being towed.  We towed at about 50 mph and I adjusted the 
regen level to keep the regen power in the mid range.  It was  a cold 
night when we did that and a great side benefit was being able to use 
the imiev heater while it was being towed.  I did not use the heater on 
battery power.  An amusing side story:  I used SuperChargers in both 
Corsicana and Waco so Tesla paid the fuel for the tow.  I chose low 
traffic parts of the route to do the towing.


After a flat recently put my imiev out of commission for a day, I 
started thinking about getting a second one.  They are pretty rare in 
Texas; amusingly, spare wheels are even more rare than the cars.   
Cars.com had a $8k, 12k miles used one 30-80 miles away but it was gone 
by the time I got serious.  An Austin dealer now has several 2016s at 
essentially full price but a Houston dealer was advertising a new 2014 
for around $14k.  So, I'm buying that one.  Just under $16k including 
TTL making the net cost just over $8k. Funding for the Texas incentive 
has been exhausted.  I've configured a tow bar so I expect the tow to be 
less stressful.  With the SuperCharger at Columbus, Tesla will again pay 
for the fuel.  I'll be doing the tow in the next couple of weeks and 
will try to post photos.  The first tow was after dark and I got no photos.


The following sites are likely already known to Willie. And he is welcome to
add or make corrections if he has the time and is so inclined. I started

Some were new to me, thanks.

Next, once you have found your used EV, how to get it home?
You could rent a flat bed and or vehicle to tow with and do the driving
yourself (a time sink but the job gets done correctly without damage to the
EV, etc.). Or use a car transporter service. One shipper that was mentioned
in an evdl post was
http://www.dasautoshippers.com/
  If others know of auto shippers than have worked well for them, please let
us know.
The guy that picked up the first imiev from the Plano dealer for me (and 
drove it for a week) bought a Leaf out of St Louis last year. Against my 
advice.  He found a good deal on http://uship.com.  I believe DAS does a 
lot of bidding on UShip.  The advantage of going through UShip is that 
you might find an independent guy who wants to avoid a deadhead trip 
segment and bids aggressively.  That's what happened on the StLouis to 
Dallas Leaf shipment; the Leaf buyer saved a couple of hundred dollars.


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Re: [EVDL] "short" 30 minute video of S-10 Lead Acid to Nissan Leaf module conversion

[Willie2 via EV]

On 03/26/2016 08:14 AM, Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield wrote:
Yes. There's a taxi firm in the UK with a 100k+ mile leaf. It is DCQC 
daily multiple times and still has all of its capacity bars.


It is a 2013 car, fitted with the 2012-2013 generation cells. (There 
have been incremental improvements since the leaf launched in 2010)
Thanks, Nikki.  I've only become dimly aware that you are no longer in 
Great Brittan.  Welcome.  I'm a bit surprised, I thought you were a 
pretty well established journalist "over there".  I encourage you to 
post about your movements, etc.


I'm not personally in the market for any Leaf cells.  I was depending on 
my early (2011?) Leaf to give me a range of 70+ miles. When it dropped 
from about 90 miles to about 60 miles (20k miles, ~400 cycles, horrible 
Texas summer), it became useless to me.  Of course, I was disgusted to 
learn that Nissan was forcing owners to sue to get warranty service.  
I'm now using an imiev but only as a second car; it has given me about 
65 miles for 10k miles.  So, it could still go the way of the Leaf but 
imiev longevity reports have been good.  Not so with Leafs, though it 
does seem they fare well in cool climates.  A negative on the imiev is 
the lack of service; I have to go ~200 miles to buy one.  I don't buy 
cars with the intention of needing service.  We do have Leaf dealers 
near me. I've heard reports of them charging Leaf owners for oil 
changes. So, I don't feel too deprived not having nearby imiev service; 
I may be better off without it.


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Re: [EVDL] "short" 30 minute video of S-10 Lead Acid to Nissan Leaf module conversion

[Willie2 via EV]

On 03/26/2016 05:03 AM, Jay Summet via EV wrote:

https://youtu.be/26PfXFgouLE


This is the "short" version (still 28 minutes) of the long video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjTwh...

Thanks for posting!  Very well done, not to mention informative.

With my Leaf experience, I'd be leery of using Leaf cells.  I think they 
have an expected life of only about 800 cycles even under good 
conditions.  I hope you'll keep us posted on any future failures.  I 
guess you know how many miles your donor car had?  I'd divide by 50 to 
estimate the number of cycles.  I guess that says the expected life is 
only about 40k miles?  Are there any 100k mile Leafs out there?


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: When will Tesla's electricity come to the Ag farm?

[Willie2 via EV]

I regularly post items that interest me on Google+:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/102434734002949174273/posts/p/pub
A recent highlight is the Tesla hauling ~1500 pounds of charcoal.

Sorry, this is more likely to work:
https://plus.google.com/102434734002949174273/posts

I wish I understood all I know about Google.  Or, wish I knew all I 
understood.


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: When will Tesla's electricity come to the Ag farm?

[Willie2 via EV]

On 03/25/2016 10:01 AM, Peri Hartman wrote:
Not to doubt you but I don't know how you get anywhere close $.10/mile 
- truly amazing.



Well,   let's see

1981-86 diesel Isuzus could be bought new for around $8k.  Good 
condition used with less than 100k miles for ~$2k.  I have several that 
went 250k-300k miles with almost no repair.  A $100 water pump once or 
twice.  So, if you could do 200k miles, that's $.04 per mile for new and 
$.01 per mile used.  35-40 mpg on $1.50-$2.00/gallon diesel.  $.04-$.06 
/mile.  Annual expenses were about $50 for two $25 tires, <$100 for 
insurance, $50 for license, $100 for oil etc.  Throw in another $100 for 
small items.  $400 per year.  For 30k miles/year, a bit more than 
$.01/mile.  On the low side, I make the total costs to be $.06/mile and 
$.11/mile on the high side. 1980s dollars.  Piling on quite a few 
miles.  Some of my trucks did not reach those costs because I couldn't 
put the miles on quickly enough, maybe only 5k/year on some of them.


I remember doing 3k-4k miles in Mexico in the 80s and figuring my fuel 
cost was about $.0075/mile.


When the trucks were newish, I averaged around 38 mpg.  Driving very 
carefully, I've done 50 mpg.  As they aged, it trended down toward 32 
mpg.  Mileage increase for the first ~10k miles and remained very good 
up past 100k miles.  I maintained a log in each truck and computed 
mileage for each and every tank.


As these trucks aged out, I looked at all sorts of replacements.   I 
tried a gasoline Ford half ton, a Dodge-Cummins 3/4 ton, and the 
Sprinter 3/4 ton van.  All came up short but the Sprinter was second best.


Can you see why I was so tardy coming to EVs?  Good old days.  Gone forever.


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: When will Tesla's electricity come to the Ag farm?

[Willie2 via EV]

On 03/25/2016 09:07 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

Willie,

That's a very impressive summary, you wrote.  I suspect, from what 
I've read here and elsewhere, when EVs are used in a commercial 
environment the financial picture is completely different. Repairs and 
maintenance always drop to the bottom line where they might be ignored 
in personal finances.  And we would like to think that EVs have less 
of those expenses than ICEs.  Without prying for too much information, 
can you tell us whether your EV investments came out reasonably good 
compared to ICE equivalents when you factor in purchase price?
I used to drive 81-86 Isuzu diesel pickups.  If I bought used and put a 
lot of miles on them, they cost me as little as $.10/mile for all costs 
including initial cost.  I tend to drive them until they have no 
residual; I still have about six.  For a lightly driven Isuzu, it was no 
more than $.20.  Less than $.05 for fuel at that time.  My second 
favorite vehicle was a diesel Sprinter.  Over 50k miles.  It cost well 
under $.50/mile, about $.15 for fuel.  The Hyundai, at 50k miles, cost 
me well over $1, maybe $1.50.  The Leaf, 20k miles, was probably just 
under $1; it had $15k residual.  The Tesla, 70k miles, is approaching 
$1; I hope to get down close to $.50.  My first imiev has less than 10k 
miles so it is still close to $2.  The first imiev had a net cost of 
about $16k; the second will be less than $9k.  Both new.  If I can put 
enough miles on them, I expect to get well under $.50/mile.


I know you said your conversions did not.  But you bought two iMiev 
and a Leaf.  Perhaps those did.  And then a Tesla - probalby not, at 
least not yet?


By the way, if you still have the Leaf, are you aware there was a 
class action settlement where, I believe, Nissan must now replace bad 
batteries of earlier years (even 2011) with a new 2016 model if the 
bad one loses more than 3 bars.
I sold the Leaf to a neighbor and keep track of it.  He recently tried 
to get them to replace the battery but they declared it "good".  His 
range is down to about 45 miles.  The Leaf instrumentation is 
intentionally and maliciously obfuscated.  "Bars" of all things!   
Non-linear bars.  Nissan recently offered me $50 under the class action 
deal.  $5k would have been more reasonable.



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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: When will Tesla's electricity come to the Ag farm?

[Willie2 via EV]

On 03/24/2016 04:15 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

% This is the message I sent the blogger. This post will also be linked to
that blog as a comment: %

[in reference to
http://www.agweb.com/blog/janzen-ag-law-blog/when-will-teslas-electricity-come-to-the-farm/
]

There are many farmers that use Electrics (EVs) on the farm. Those EVs come
in many forms (see the links below). Some are used like the ol' reliable
pickup truck to run local errands (short trips kill fuel vehicles - aka
ice). Some are small 3 or 4 wheel Electric ATVs/UTVs (or repurposed
golfcarts for farm use).

One such farmer just south of Austin, Tx, Willie McKemie:



Bruce makes me a legend in my own mind?

A few points:
1) I'm a relative newcomer to EVs.  I had an epiphany in the viewing of 
WKTEC about 2006.  Before that, I had essentially no interest in EVs 
even though I had long known Mary Ann Chapman.  I did not learn of Mary 
Ann's EV life until fairly recently.
2) Age and decrepitude has reduced my farming activity.  Essentially 
only asparagus, okra, and zucchini on about 15 cultivated acres the past 
few years.  I no longer do tomatoes, peaches, or blackberries. I now 
sell almost exclusively directly to grocery stores.
3)  Though I've striven mightily, I've failed to extract reliability and 
cost effectiveness from conversions or any lead battery vehicle.  My 
Hyundai conversion especially was a money sink and left me stranded many 
times.  Nevertheless, I've been delivering exclusively in EVs since 
about 2010, starting with the Hyundai.
4) A Leaf served me well for a couple of years; I was greatly 
disappointed to find Nissan's battery warranty was worthless and that 
they were abandoning their early adopters.
5) My Tesla is the best car I've ever owned.  If only it were a pickup 
truck!  I've recently mentioned here that I am in the process of 
increasing it's delivering capacity, with a trailer, from 17 boxes to 
over 30.  Thanks to Rick Beebe for suggesting customaluminumboxes.
6) Right now, imievs look very good to me.  I've had one for more than a 
year and I'm in the process of buying my second.  The imiev makes a 
great "around the farm" vehicle, replacing golf carts.  It also hauls 
supplies well at distances of up to 30 miles.  I also use my imiev for 
deliveries where the range will allow; at times, I make two imiev trips 
rather than one Tesla trip.  I have hopes that imievs will prove to be 
much more reliable than golf carts. Amusing, I am forced to buy imievs 
from distances of 150-200 miles. The tales of getting them home belongs 
elsewhere.
7) The original article correctly assesses roles electric tractors might 
play.  I have long sought a 25-40 hp cultivating/utility tractor.  Over 
90% of my tractor work is done an hour or two at a time.  I'm aware of 
Allis G conversions.  With my poor experience with conversions, I'm 
waiting for someone to offer a professional conversion of an OEM unit.  
Suggestions solicited.


I regularly post items that interest me on Google+:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/102434734002949174273/posts/p/pub
A recent highlight is the Tesla hauling ~1500 pounds of charcoal.

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Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] Re: article:The world's largest electric vehicle travels soon in Switzerland

[Willie2 via EV]

On 03/18/2016 02:42 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
That's basic physics. If the mass of the vehicle doesn't change, the 
kinetic energy released in the descent can't be more than was stored 
in the ascent, no? If would be the same if the laden vehicle ascended 
and descended the hill. In the special case that the news piece 
describes, the mass DOES change. The extra kinetic energy descending 
comes from the load added at the top of the hill. Sorry for the 
confusion. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL


I read the story and was left with an incomplete understanding of the 
trips the vehicle was intended to make.  I came to the conclusion that 
the vehicle was likely hauling ore or some other load down hill and then 
dead headed (went empty) back up hill.  And did that repeatedly.



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Re: [EVDL] battery box

[Willie2 via EV]

On 03/14/2016 10:34 AM, Rick Beebe via EV wrote:

On 03/12/2016 12:30 PM, Willie2 via EV wrote:

I'm looking for a source for a weather tight, probably fiberglass, box.
About 4'x6' and 2' high with a lift-up top.  Can anyone suggest?  Some
custom fiberglass shop?


I had www.customaluminumboxes.com make me perfectly sized welded 
aluminum boxes. I'm very impressed with the quality and as a portion 
of the 

Exactly what I was looking for.  Thanks!

I have a steel fabricator near me that makes primarily electronic 
equipment cabinets that I intended to query.  The above aluminum box 
place was so responsive, I placed an order without checking the local 
place.  I settled on .06" with .08" lid.  Under 100 pounds and under $1k 
delivered.


A little background, in case anyone is interested.  For several years, 
I've been delivering produce to grocery stores exclusively in EVs.  I 
pack my produce in used banana boxes.  My car holds about 17 boxes and, 
occasionally, I have to make two trips where one larger load would 
suffice.  For those occasions, I'm configuring a light weight trailer 
with this weather tight box that will hold 16 boxes.


I have some experience pulling ~1500 pound trailers; they seem to cost 
me at least 50% more energy, ~450 wh/m vs 250-300wh/m.  I have pulled a 
smaller lighter trailer similar to the one I'm configuring.  With the 
imiev and the light low profile trailer, the energy cost is minimal, 
difficult to notice.


Of course, the above place looks like a prime source of very nice and 
durable battery boxes.


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[EVDL] battery box

[Willie2 via EV]

I'm looking for a source for a weather tight, probably fiberglass, box.  
About 4'x6' and 2' high with a lift-up top.  Can anyone suggest?  Some 
custom fiberglass shop?

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Re: [EVDL] Watts the CD of the Sparrow EV #13?

[Willie2 via EV]

On 03/05/2016 10:14 AM, Thos True via EV wrote:

Might I recommend a donation or at least a display at the Historical
Electric Vehicle Museum? A Sparrow would be a great addition to their
existing display! Feel free to contact Roderick Wilde or myself for more
information.


Is this being kept secret?  A Washington state based museum?  An Arizona 
museum?  In recent months I was through Kingman twice and had no idea 
the museum was there.   Even though I'm a rather compusive EVDL reader.  
Had I known, I certainly would have stopped in.

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Re: [EVDL] Brushed bicycle hub motor?

[Willie2 via EV]

On 03/02/2016 05:14 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

Gary,
I have a spare unused complete rear wheel with brushed hub motor from EV
Global, which was a Lee Iacocca design from 1998 or thereabouts.
This is the first version of their e-Bikes so it was used in a
24V bike, later bikes use 36V but I do not know if the motor is the same
or upgraded for 36V, it might well be the same motor.
I have run the same motor (I have a 24V EV Global that I use for all my
riding) on a 30V Lithium pack and it is very powerful, it will lift the
front wheel for a short moment when applying full power from stop.


I wonder if that might be the same or related to the Th!nk ebike sold by 
Ford?
The one I've seen has a 24v lead battery mounted almost vertically in 
front of the rear wheel.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Batteries are King (A Gigafactory Challenge)

[Willie2 via EV]

On 03/01/2016 05:36 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


http://seekingalpha.com/article/3936476-tesla-gigafactory-challenge
Tesla: A Gigafactory Challenge
Feb. 26, 2016  Frank Greenhalgh


Most Seeking Alpha articles should be discounted as being written by 
someone that has an agenda.  Generally more blatantly than your typical 
poorly informed "journalist".  In many cases, the authors seem to be 
working for petroleum or automobile companies.  In this case, the author 
seems to absurdly assume that Tesla has not considered other than 
cylindrical cells.

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[EVDL] Electric Coop magazine article on historic EV

[Willie2 via EV]

Published last May:
http://www.coloradocountrylife.coop/plugging-into-the-past/

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: No tumbling Leaf EV values

[Willie2 via EV]

On 02/10/2016 03:59 AM, David Kerzel via EV wrote:

I also just got a 2013 Leaf-S, 16K miles for under $10K.  I don't understand 
all this battery talk, the warranty on the battery is 96 months or 100K miles.

Nissan resists honoring their warranty.


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Re: [EVDL] Wiring for 6 KW charger

[Willie2 via EV]

On 01/31/2016 09:55 AM, Seth Rothenberg via EV wrote:

Friends, I have a small question.

I bought a dryer replacement cord with a 3-prong plug
and a matching socket (10-30R)
and a 2-gang box and dry-while-in-use cover
that will work with the socket.   I ran a 10-2 with ground

I would use 8ga.  I think 10 ga is marginal for 30 amps.

and I have a 30 amp GFCI 2-pole breaker.

I noticed on the socket it says "3-pole, 3-wire, non-grounding"
and indeed I see that the L-shaped prong is not grounded
to the mounting plate.

Is this an appropriate combination to feed the 6kw charger
on my Leaf, using the OpenEVSE?

Is there something more appropirate for a GFCI-protected
30 amp 220 circuit?
I don't know about GFIs but I've had a lot of trouble with 120vac GFIs.  
I THINK you OpenEVSE MAY contain ground fault interruption; I believe 
the JuiceBoxes do.


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Re: [EVDL] Converting '51 Chevy (after going off rid?)...

[Willie2 via EV]

On 01/18/2016 01:46 PM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:

  " It has no future that I can see."

If everything stays the same except legislation, maybe.  But the tech will
improve a lot in 10 years.

It is possible that net metering will go away, or it will be unbalanced and
they pay less for the owner generaed power (Duke proposed to the rate
commision here in NC to pay $0.02/ kWh and to charge $0.11 / kWh), but it
didn't fly.  The system of renewable energy credits helps hold that back.

Straying off topic, but with SOME relevance:

My electric provider has a fair net metering deal.  Aside from the 
monthly "overhead" of $22.50 per meter, they give full credit for energy 
produced as long as it is less than that supplied.  I was surprised to 
find our marginal electric charge was only about $.085; think it had 
been $.10-$.11.  I believe we've seen a reduction due, probably, to 
cheaper natural gas.  They pay for "over production" annually.  This 
billing period I got my credit for the previous year.  It is about $.046 
which is supposed to represent their average wholesale cost for the 
year.  This is a meter where I have too much PV  and I'm trying to get 
it closer to "right" on other meters.


I've been watching with dismay what is happening in Nevada.

It seems utilities are putting in their own big solar farms.  I'm sure 
they can produce more efficiently than homeowners.  I recently passed 
some BIG solar installations not far from Las Vegas:

https://goo.gl/maps/vEgQskTUWYJ2
Some of that is heat solar but most is PV.


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Re: [EVDL] OT fcv deliveries halted> 2few pumps, need appt4 slow-1/2-fill(150mi), +more

[Willie2 via EV]

On 01/17/2016 12:40 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:

Within a couple of years in California, renewable hydrogen will make up over 
40% of the pumped H2 for autos, exceeding the renewable content of the grid. 
That percentage will continue to increase.
That's interesting.  Can you cite a source?  Will that be coming from 
cracking water with solar/wind electricity?  I thought NG was still the 
cheapest source of H2 by far.  Do you have comparative cost estimates?


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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[Willie2 via EV]

On 01/13/2016 07:16 AM, via EV wrote:

Good morning Bob.  Well I'm going to just jump right to the point.  Don't.  Go 
down to your nearest Nissan dealer and look at all the Leaf lease returns and 
pick out a beauty.  For probably 10-12K.  You will have a vehicle 5-10 times 
better than the first one you could build. Well maybe.  But it will still be 
cheaper than anything you could build.  Especially if you were to use Lithium.  
My conversion cost twice what my 2013 Leaf cost.  With a warranty, new, with 
great heat and comfort.

Though I wouldn't buy a Nissan, I have to generally agree.  Any factory 
made EV will almost certainly be far cheaper, far more reliable, and 
have far more resale value than a conversion.  The only reason to do a 
conversion is for education.  The most cost effective conversion will be 
the one you bought from someone else at a fire sale price.


Most conversions end up being driven only a few thousand miles.

I paid for my education.  I drove my Hyundai conversion about 50k miles 
at a total cost of about $70k.  It is now worth $3k-$5k.  I've driven my 
Tesla over 70k miles at a total cost of about $90k.  I anticipate 
driving it a total of maybe 150k miles at a total cost of about $100k.  
The Tesla is or will be worth $20k-$40k.  The Hyundai cost well over 
$1/mile with a lot of discomfort, a lot of failures and a lot of pain.  
The Tesla will cost well under $1/mile with few failures and a great 
deal of comfort and joy.


I should mention that I prefer to drive my imiev over the Tesla when the 
imiev range allows.  I'm up to 7k miles on the imiev in about a year.


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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[Willie2 via EV]

On 01/13/2016 08:03 AM, jackinausti...@gmail.com wrote:

Just wondering, why do you prefer the imiev? Seems strange to me.

I have little use for the excessive Tesla performance; it's a thrill but 
not really relevant for day to day transportation.  The imiev is easier 
to get into and out of.  The much smaller imiev is much easier to 
navigate in tight spaces.  The imiev has much more ground clearance; I 
drive it over rough ground where the Tesla can not go. The imiev gives 
the driver a much better view of surrounding conditions.


When driving the imiev, I do miss the superior Tesla instrumentation and 
the Tesla map.


I would LOVE to have a smaller and cheaper EV with Tesla 
instrumentation, 200+ miles of range, AutoPilot,  and SuperCharger access.

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Re: [EVDL] mini-dump charger 120VAC

[Willie2 via EV]

On 01/13/2016 09:48 AM, Seth Rothenberg via EV wrote:


In the meantime, I was wondering if anyone on this list has
experience with batteries and power inverters to use with my EVSE.
No experience, but I've thought quite a bit about it.  I assume you're 
talking about using your supplied Panasonic EVSE?  I suppose your 
charger wants about 1.6 kw at 120vac and 3.3kw at 240vac?


Lead batteries might work ok at with a 12v inverter at 1.6kw.  It would 
be more attractive to use 48v of lithium and 240vac.  A little diddling 
with your car might allow you to charge while driving.


Without talking about inverters, something from here should work:
http://is.gd/xLyjQS
You would need something over 30 amps for ~1.5kw  and over 60 amps for 
~3kw.  Multiple batteries can be paralleled for the needed current.  I 
imagine you would want at least 2kwh?  That would be about  40 ah @ 48v.

Two of these:
http://is.gd/4QvJKs
should give you 100ah (4.8kwh), up to 70 amps (~5kw) at a delivered cost 
of just over $2k.

The advantages of these ebike packages is that:
1) chargers included
2) cells are supposed to be protected from:
a) over discharging
b) over charging
c) over discharge rate



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Re: [EVDL] HOW GM BEATS TESLA TO THE Every Man's Electric Car

[Willie2 via EV]

On 01/11/2016 03:03 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

Ah, GM finally delivers that electric Chevette they promised in 1978.  :-\

I'll still never forgive them for what they did to the EV1.
As you well know, GM's sins extend far beyond what they did with the 
EV1.  They insured that the only battery at the time suitable for an EV 
would never be used in an EV.  Not only did they kill their own EV1 
program, they set back EV development for ALL EV and potential EV makers 
by ~15 years.

No sense in cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I'd HAVE to cut my nose off to buy one of those.  I wouldn't be able to hold
it long enough to get out of the showroom.


I'm certainly with David here.  I will claim that anyone that is willing 
to buy a Bolt just hasn't been informed of GM history.


Besides, it has that bloody Onstar spyware.  But then that's not much
different from having Elon Musk riding in the back seat of every Tesla.
David, i suspect you have not yet had your Tesla test drive.  I 
encourage you to do so.


Apparently, OnStar will give the Bolt the capability of doing "over the 
air updates" as Tesla does.  But GM will not use that capability; every 
Bolt will have to be taken to a dealer to have such updates installed.  
One of the many joys of owning a Tesla is that you wake up every once in 
a while with a software update that adds new capabilities, corrects 
problems, or just generally makes things nicer.


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Re: [EVDL] HOW GM BEATS TESLA TO THE Every Man's Electric Car

[Willie2 via EV]

On 01/11/2016 10:47 AM, Steven Lough via EV wrote:



FRONT PAGE: W I R E D M A G A Z I N E ( 
http://www.wired.com/2016/01/gm-electric-car-chevy-bolt-mary-barra/ )


I haven't yet read the entire article but didn't notice mention of GM's 
previous performance in subverting EV development.  Also, did not notice 
any provision for comment.


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: This Is The GM-200mi EV Before You Are Supposed To See It (v)

[Willie2 via EV]

On 01/07/2016 03:12 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

What am I missing here?  I don't understand why the responses to this post
are talking about how much energy a Tesla takes.
I guess I failed to be clear though it seemed quite obvious to me. Let 
me try again:
1) The Bolt display was shown with extraordinary high energy consumption 
per mile.  You expressed astonishment at the numbers.
2) I commented that such high consumption was not unusual early in a 
trip in cold weather with a cold battery.  The Bolt display clearly 
indicated only the first part of a trip, ~10 miles.
3) I cited some Tesla numbers, in cold weather with a cold battery, that 
approached the Bolt numbers.
4) From there, discussion went on to warming batteries on shore power 
thus circumventing that high initial energy consumption from the battery.
  


The article was talking about the GM car with the cringeworthy name, BOLT,
not a Tesla.  That's what I was responding to.

They're not at all comparable.  The Bolt is (will be?) a much lighter car
than the Tesla.

The Tesla S weighs over 4600 lb.  That's more than a Ford F150 4x4 pickup.
You'd expect it to be a class A amphog.

But not the Bolt.  The rumor mill suggests that it'll probably be about the
same weight as a Leaf.  I'd expect it to be a bit more, just because it's
made by GM, but not so much that it would use 3 times the energy that the
not dramatically optimized Leaf does.
There is not much difference in energy per mile between a Leaf and a 
Tesla.  Leaf instrumentation is uninformative but battery size and range 
indicates that a Leaf does no better than about 200 wh/m. Teslas can do 
around 250 wh/m in warm weather at 50-60 mph. Typically, in warm 
weather, Teslas can do 80mph on 350 wh/m.


Maybe there were mitigating factors in this case, but my first impression is
- that's just gross.

Yes, the numbers were gross.  Perhaps it was cold car with a cold battery.
I expect the Bolt, under good conditions, will do 200-250 wh/m.

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Re: [EVDL] Why all EVgo's L3 EVSE eggs in one basket? ... (a paradigm shift of charging 200+mi EVs)

[Willie2 via EV]

On 12/10/2015 02:03 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
 -connect to the L3, go shopping, etc. leaving your EV at the spot 
until you are done. In other words, having so many L3 EVSE, complaints 
of drivers not coming back to move their EV are reduced. Doesn't this 
seem wasteful (over-kill on the host's L3 installation costs), 
inconsiderate to other driver's needs, +more


Tesla SuperChargers share one charger with two connection sites.  If 
only one car is connected, it can get up to the maximum (120kw, as I 
recall).  If two cars are connected to one charger, the total supplied 
is limited to the maximum.  That is, neither car can get the maximum 
while the other car is charging  This keeps two clients nearly satisfied 
at a cost of less  than two chargers.  I would suppose that EVGo has 
done the same with their multiple head chargers.  That is, the cost of a 
four head installation is significantly less than four times the cost of 
a single head installation.  This topology reduces the need to have 
clients disconnect as soon as possible after their charges are complete; 
the charger can continue to supply it's full power to other clients.


Except in an unanticipated emergency, I have NEVER found a public L2 
charge station of any use.


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Re: [EVDL] Craigslist find: Tesla Roadster

[Willie2 via EV]

On 12/03/2015 09:36 AM, Mike Nickerson via EV wrote:

Nice.  I wonder how someone could own a car like that for 5 years and only put 
2000 miles on it.  I don't have that kind of self-restraint.  We have put 13K 
miles on our Model S in 8 months.

i just turned 70k miles in about 32 months.  I just pushed my personal 
driving stamina, averaging a bit less than 50 mph over ~1500 miles:

https://plus.google.com/102434734002949174273/posts/EfdRz1B8ov4

Under slightly better conditions, I think about 60 mph might be possible.
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Re: [EVDL] To maximize Leaf EV range> count bars not miles (v)

[Willie2 via EV]

On 11/24/2015 07:27 AM, Jamie K via EV wrote:


For 2013+ models of the LEAF:
Simply glance at the percent-of-charge meter.
MUCH easier than the nebulous fluffery of bars.
"Nebulous fluffery of bars".  LOVE it!  Consider it stolen.  That was my 
poorly articulated view within the first five minutes of driving my long 
awaited, early adopter, 2011 Leaf.  I just made do with "crappy 
instrumentation".

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Re: [EVDL] 2016 30kWh Leaf : Best year to buy ...

[Willie2 via EV]

On 11/13/2015 11:08 AM, Jamie K via EV wrote:

On 11/13/15 9:04 AM, Cruisin via EV wrote:
Regardless where you buy a Leaf at, take note of the high pitch wine 
sound

from the motor. VERY aggravating to most people.


I can't speak for most people but I doubt that's true. Our 2013 a 
typical understated EV "jet-like" sound. Some may find it annoying, 
some may find it thrilling, some may not really notice it.

My hearing is poor, especially at high frequencies, but.
I never noticed any noise on my first year Leaf.  Nor did anyone else 
comment on noise.  IMHO, of FAR more concern is crappy instrumentation 
and crappy manufacturer support.

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Re: [EVDL] Watt-Hr Motorcycle Efficiency...

[Willie2 via EV]

On 11/12/2015 02:23 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:


Another (possibly better) way to estimate the EV bike's energy efficiency
might be to look at a similar ICE bike's fuel efficiency.
I used to ride a 750cc bike.  At ~80 mph, fuel consumption was 25-30 
mpg.  At ~50 mph, it could go as high as 50 mpg.  Barely better than a 
small car.


Much smaller bikes could approach 100mpg but that was mainly due to 
limited speeds.



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Re: [EVDL] Suitable Load?

[Willie2 via EV]

On 11/05/2015 07:44 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
I think this thread is about individual cell modules, so low voltage. 
But I had to remind everyone not to take that above sentence out of 
context. Bob
I think the thread is about balancing a pack.  Though he did not inform 
us of the number of cells, I would guess 40-45.


I suggested that the easiest way to balance is to contrive to charge at 
a current around the capacity of the miniBMS modules to bypass. Then, 
charge for long enough, perhaps days, to allow all modules to begin 
bypassing.

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Re: [EVDL] Suitable Load?

[Willie2 via EV]

On 11/04/2015 06:39 PM, Mike Beem via EV wrote:

I have been trying to re-balance my 4 year old 100Ah CALB pack with
mini-BMS, identifying the highest SOC cells by watching for the red LED's

I've had pretty good luck limiting charge current to close to the 
miniBMS by-pass capabilities.  You can run charging current through an 
incandescent bulb (thanks, Lee)  and/or find a charging set up that will 
charge at only an amp or two.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: i-MiEV is America’s lowest cost EV, for a reason

[Willie2 via EV]

On 10/26/2015 10:09 AM, dovepa via EV wrote:

I have never had the need for fast charging since I bought mine 8 months ago


I did not intend to do any chademo charging when I bought my imiev.  However, 
EVGo has recently been installing charge stations in the Austin area after 
getting well established in the Dallas and Houston areas.  Apparently, they 
offer no cost charging while they are getting established.  Their normal fee is 
about $10, around 10 times electric cost; I will be a customer at those prices 
only in emergencies.  However, I am using them now while there is no fee.  I 
guess my price threshold is about twice the cost of electricity.

https://plus.google.com/102434734002949174273/posts/NzXg9cyBHR3
https://plus.google.com/102434734002949174273/posts/Ksibj7y13Tp
https://plus.google.com/102434734002949174273/posts/WteSCpUuR9K

Those are typical daily trips for me, 75-100 miles though some days go 
up to about 150 miles.  Before using EVGo, I had mostly been using the 
imiev for three routes which are ~20 miles, ~40 miles, and ~ 60 miles.


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM Would Be Smart To Launch An e-Pickup Truck Before Tesla

[Willie2 via EV]

On 10/23/2015 02:14 PM, rick via EV wrote:
I have a converted Ranger. I seem to do about 500Wh/mile which gives 
me a 40 mile range. Most of the time that's plenty but I regret that I 
couldn't afford big enough batteries to give me 60 or 70 miles as I 
build furniture and some of the better hardwood outlets are more than 
20 miles away.

The next project in my ebike battery queue is a previously converted Ranger.
I have four of these:
http://is.gd/j4BtyS
on order for about $1300 each.  The equivalent price for monolithic 
LiFePo cells is $.97 /ah/cell.  But, that <$1 includes the BMS. Each 
battery should give me  4.3kwh of energy and up to 60 amps of current.  
I believe that 240amps will be sufficient but, if not, the modularity 
allows me to just add more batteries.  And, the same for range.  I 
really expect my energy consumption to be closer to 400 wh/m or about 
ten miles per battery.  If so, and 40 miles is not sufficient, I can 
just add more batteries.


The previous incarnation of this Ranger had 120v of 160ah LFP cells, 
just under 20kwh.  It was not driven on public roads, but I believe it 
had a range of about 50 miles.


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: i-MiEV is America’s lowest cost EV, for a reason

[Willie2 via EV]

On 10/21/2015 05:04 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


http://www.boston.com/cars/news-and-reviews/2015/10/16/mitsubishi-miev-america-lowest-cost-electric-for-reason/vl7y92uWJVpjEgPrKPHJcO/story.html
Mitsubishi i-MiEV is America’s lowest cost electric, for a reason
October 17, 2015  Keith Griffin
I wish I had found a place to publicly comment on this.  It does a 
horrible disservice to the imiev.  There are probably few people that 
have both a Tesla S and an imiev; I am one.


Yes, the imiev has rather crappy instrumentation.  Though not nearly as 
crappy as a Leaf.  Yes, the range is limited.  Other than those two 
items, I prefer to drive my imiev over the Tesla.  The load capacity is 
about 60% of that of the Tesla.  It is much easier to drive due to the 
smaller size.  It has door handles that work and it has sufficient 
ground clearance.  Two short comings of the Tesla.  I do love both my 
Tesla and my imiev but, if the imiev had a 200 mile range, I probably 
would not have the Tesla.


OTOH, I was very happy with my Leaf for the first 20k miles until Nissan 
refused to fix battery problems.  So far, I have only about 5k miles on 
the imiev and 65k miles on the Tesla.


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Re: [EVDL] Emotorworks (Juicebox) lack of customer support

[Willie2 via EV]

On 10/15/2015 03:06 PM, Ken Olum via EV wrote:

Before sending this message, I complained to them about the fact that I
wasn't getting any support, and that complaint also went unanswered.

I now have four JuiceBoxes, two under the KickStarter project, as well 
as a 10kw charger.  I've had some trouble three or four times and also 
found their service lacking.  I've chalked it up to growing pains.  They 
have eventually fixed most of my problems.  I think I have wifi on all 
my JBs but I've given up trying to use it.  One major, for me, problem 
is that the display they use on chargers and the premium JBs is very 
difficult to read.  Very small and poor contrast.  The radio key fob 
required for configuring premium JBs seems like an almost certain future 
failure point.


All in all, I consider their products to be good values.

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Re: [EVDL] Volt/watt metter

[Willie2 via EV]

On 10/05/2015 01:08 PM, ken via EV wrote:

Is there a bike/portable volt/meter that shows at least 48 volt  at least
40 amps and that can show ah capity used, ?perfer? In and Out amps and
will do that at least while the meter/system is turned on . some thing
cheaper and simpler than cycleanlyst .

Neither of these quite meets your needs:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161129449019?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181595545314?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
You might check with the seller and see if he can supply something.
I have one of each on order just to check them out.

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Re: [EVDL] EV pioneers

[Willie2 via EV]

On 10/04/2015 09:39 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
Frankly, I *do* think wikipedia is an appropriate media to document EV 
pioneers.
I agree with David and Ben on Wikipedia.  Getting something published 
there seems pretty daunting to me.  I agree with you that Wikipedia is a 
desired final destination for the information.  I propose we start with 
a less daunting wiki, get the material polished and whipped into shape 
and then copy the acceptable stuff to Wikipedia.  That is, if a less 
daunting wiki appears.


I'm sure the position of "Wikipedia Polisher" is open...

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Re: [EVDL] EV pioneers

[Willie2 via EV]

On 10/04/2015 07:37 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

I'm willing to set up a wiki at evdl.org.  Like the EVDL, it would be 100%
non-commmercial, meaning no ads and no commercial promotion.

Before I do that, could we please have a few people commit to writing and/or
editing?  Keep in mind that it requires some time.
I will contribute to the limit of my knowledge.  That is, not all that 
much.  I will offer to help organizing.


I see a main page with links to individuals.  Perhaps, people 
alphabetical within period of their contributions.  1950s, 1960s, etc.  
Or some other era delimiter.



You can contact me offlist (see the bottom of this message for instructions)
if you like.

Another thought.  Should we limit it to EV personalities, or perhaps EV
history since (say) 1950 or 1960?  Should we make it more general?  Limiting
it would limit the amount of time people would have to invest in it.

I don't see that limiting the scope would encourage contributions. IMHO, 
just the opposite since people will be contributing only what they know 
or are interested in.  I see it as counter productive to tell someone 
NOT to contribute what they know or what they are interested in.



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Re: [EVDL] EV pioneers

[Willie2 via EV]

On 10/01/2015 10:50 AM, k7...@seanet.com wrote:

Don't forget Wally Rippel, Robert Aronson, and Ron Gremban.  Wally
organized the 1968 Great American Electric Car Race between MIT and
Caltech.  Bob Aronson built limited production (40 ?) of Mars II Renault
electric car conversions and many other EV prototype cars as well as
supporting others in reviving EV interest.
In addition to this public suggestion, I've had several private 
suggestions.  Thanks to all.  I know very little of most the people 
mentioned.


I was thinking that a good approach would be to create a wikipedia page, 
EV-Pioneers or somesuch, with a bunch of stubs to each identified 
individual and hope that someone with some knowledge of the individuals 
would come along and create the appropriate pages. Not having any 
experience creating wikipedia pages, I started reading:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Your_first_article
And decided this was likely to go MUCH slower than I first thought.

So, if someone has some experience worthing with wikipedia.

My my new wikipedia username is wmckemie.

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[EVDL] EV pioneers

[Willie2 via EV]

I just had my first notice of Charlie MacArthur and it occurs to me that 
biographies of such EV pioneers are needed.  Gone are Charlie, Bob Rice, 
Bob Beaumont.  And, of course many others.  Bob Beaumont does have a 
wikipedia page:

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Beaumont
though it is sadly lacking in detail.
Wikipedia seems like an ideal place to put such things.

Being a student of genealogy, I frequently lament "I wish I had 
extracted that information while it was available!".  Speaking, of 
course, about dead people.  The time to accumulate information is while 
the subject is alive.


Currently living EV pioneers whose lives and contributions should be 
documented would include: Otmar, Jukka, Bruce, David, Lee, Roland. Wayne 
Alexander, Mary Ann Chapman, Gail Lucas, many of the sadly banned drag 
racers (I know, only the subject is banned), and numerous others.  Being 
a relative newcomer to EVDL and EVs, I lack the knowledge to compile a 
comprehensive list.


I notice Roland has been silent for a while.  I hope things are well 
with him.


Does anyone else have an interest in preserving such history?

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Re: [EVDL] 3 Unique EV's

[Willie2 via EV]

On 09/07/2015 07:47 PM, Mike Beem via EV wrote:

I have 3 very different EV's I need to find new homes for; old injuries

So I have (1) a 4 seater Rhoades Car with 36 volt power, including a solar
charger canopy/roof, (2) a Terra Trike with 24 volt power (which can be
terrfyingly fun in a parking lot gymkhana!), and (3) a near sister to the
Goggomobil I had, (which is still on the Photo Album). This one has never
EVAlbum searches for beem, rhoades, and goggomobil failed to turn up 
anything interesting.


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Re: [EVDL] scoot networks scooter to purchase

[Willie2 via EV]

On 08/31/2015 12:03 PM, ken via EV wrote:

where can some purchase a scoot outright?

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This has absolutely no meaning or context to me.  Can someone enlighten?

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Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] Re: EVs Here, There and Everywhere

[Willie2 via EV]

On 08/29/2015 10:43 AM, Mike Nickerson via EV wrote:

The numbers are starting to build in the Boise, ID area.  We just had a grand 
opening for the new Tesla SuperCharger.  We were able to get 13 Tesla Model S 
from the valley for the opening.

Yesterday, I parked my Tesla next to a Leaf at Costco.

We have my Tesla, 2 Volts, 7 or 8 Leafs at my employer on a daily basis.  We 
also have 8 EV charging  spots.  Another large employer in town has 3 or 4 
Tesla.

Funny story:  A friend has been shopping for a new car after hers was totalled.  She saw 
a car pull out and drive off.  She thought:  Oh, that is a nice looking car, and it 
has good performance.  That could work.  She caught up to it at the next light.  It 
was a Tesla.  Unfortunately, it's out of her price range.  I told her she has good taste 
in cars.

I was a little offended when Bruce implied Tesla owners are snobby. I am 
certainly not nor or other Tesla owning EVDLers.  Other than Mike, I 
think there is at lease one other Tesla owner on EVDL?


That said, I do know many Tesla owners that think they are in the 
forefront of the shift to EVs.  They are un-impressed by folks that have 
been driving EVs for years or decades and suffered through the short 
comings.  Also, there are those that worry about who does the best 
detailing and  wheel scuff repair.  I gleefully explain to those how my 
Tesla is used mostly like a pickup truck.


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Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea weaving-recklessly the wrongway HT delivery

[Willie2 via EV]

On 08/23/2015 02:49 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote:

On Aug 23, 2015, at 11:45 AM, John Lussmyer cou...@casadelgato.com wrote:


On Sun Aug 23 11:25:05 PDT 2015 ev@lists.evdl.org said:

Even the worst full-sized gasoline-powered motorcycle is going to get better 
fuel economy than the best econobox

That particular part of your statement is incorrect.
I used to ride a 1000cc motorcycle that got 30mpg.

Seriously? Was it properly tuned? Did you drive it at less than wide-open 
throttle and / or triple-digit speeds? Did you have a thousand-pound sidecar 
hooked up to it?

I used to ride Kawasaki H-2s.  750 cc, 300-350 pounds as I recall. I 
VERY rarely got more than 30mpg.  It was quite hard to ride them 
slowly.  I did get close to 50 mpg when I could hold it to 50-55 mph.  
As I recall,  a 3.5 gallon tank had to be filled every 100 miles or so.


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Re: [EVDL] Lead GC battery capacity

[Willie2 via EV]

On 07/27/2015 06:08 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

Willie2 via EV wrote:

Thanks! Bottom line, take away: 50-90 ah on a fresh lead pack.


It's not quite that bad. The Peukert effect does not change the ACTUAL 
capacity; it only describes the APPARENT capacity due to high 
currents. If you have a 200ah battery and discharge it at 100 amps so 
it appears dead after removing 100ah, it is in fact at the 50% 
discharged point. That's a safe discharge level -- you can do that 
every day for 600+ cycles.


The other 100ah is still there -- you just can't use it with a 100 amp 
draw. If you draw a lower current, then it will be there. :-)
Somewhat against my will, I just did some lead battery shopping. T105s 
are about $150.  The minutes at 75 amps rating seems most 
appropriate.  That would be just under 100 ah.  From what you say, it 
appears those are usable amphours.  SAMs batteries, with presumably less 
capacity and longevity, are about $90.  So, a pack of six T105s would be 
about $900.  Negatives: corrosion, watering, lower performance as SOC 
decreases, perhaps 1/3 the life of lithium, all or nothing major 
replacement.


Compare to 12 TS-LPF100s: about $1500 plus about $300 worth of BMS 
stuff.  Negative: nightmare of wiring maintenance, all or nothing 
major replacement.


Compare to 5 20ah ebike batteries @ $285.  Total: $1425.  Experience so 
far indicates as few as 2 20ah ebike batteries can be used at a cost of 
$570.


The longevity of ebike batteries is a BIG unknown here.

I believe it is likely that the above can be scaled to larger vehicles.  
If the golf cart projects are successful, I will be exploring higher 
voltages and capacities on larger vehicles.


The same 50% capacity limit applies to lithiums, too. If you discharge 
them to 80-100% on every cycle, you won't get as long a life. (How 
long the life will be depends drastically on the type and quality of 
the cells).
I will not accept the contention that lithium batteries should be 
limited to 50%.



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Re: [EVDL] Lead GC battery capacity

[Willie2 via EV]

On 07/28/2015 06:30 AM, Willie2 wrote:


Compare to 5 20ah ebike batteries @ $285.  Total: $1425. Experience so 
far indicates as few as 2 20ah ebike batteries can be used at a cost 
of $570.



Just checked Ping batteries, with an established good reputation:
http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the-10/36V-20AH-LiFePO4-lithium/Detail
$627 for 20ah.  $3135 for five.

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Re: [EVDL] Lead GC battery capacity

[Willie2 via EV]

On 07/28/2015 12:00 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:


So the T105 is $150/(6v x 75a x 1.75hr) = $0.19/wh.
The Sam's Club is $80/(6v x 75a x 1.75hr) = $0.10/wh.
I didn't check SAMs' battery claims.  I had assumed less capacity than 
T105s.


I'm not sure what your all or nothing replacement means. You can 
replace individual batteries if they fail early.


It is pretty tedious to identify and change either a single lithium cell 
or a lead battery.  Also, if you have a bad lead battery or lithium 
cell, you are likely to be near the end of it's mates.  I am impressed 
by how easy it is to add or replace ebike batteries.  It is mainly a 
matter of dealing with parallel rather than serial connections.  With 
serial, you break your pack to repair and you are down until you are 
finished with your repair.  You must have an entire working pack to be 
functional.  With parallel, you can likely make do with a single bad 
battery and do the replacement much faster.  Plug and un-plug SB50s or 
similar.




Compare to 12 TS-LPF100s: about $1500 plus about $300 worth of BMS
stuff.


$1800/(12 x 3.2v x 100ah) = $0.47/wh. About 2.5 times the 
cost/watthour of the Trojans, or 5 times the price of the Sam's Club. 
They would have to last 2.5-5 times longer to reach the same cost/mile.


I used 100ah; but I doubt you can get even 75ah out of them with a 75a 
load before the voltage falls under 2.5v/cell. I don't know how these 
particular Thunderskys would test; but the older 90ah Thunderskys I 
tested had significantly higher internal resistance than 6v golf cart 
batteries. They weren't good for 75a continuous / 500a peaks; but more 
like 25a continuous / 100a peaks.

I think you will find that more modern TSs are good for at least 2C.



Negative: nightmare of wiring maintenance, all or nothing major
replacement.


If you have a good BMS you should be able to replace individual cells. 
Whether the BMS wiring is a nightmare depends on the situation.
I've been dealing with TS-LFP packs with miniBMS modules for many 
years.  I judge the whole thing to be a nightmare compared to the 
integrated BMS/protection of an ebike battery.


$1425/(5 x 36v x 20ah) = $0.40/wh. That's barely any cheaper than the 
Thunderskys.
The ebike batteries include integrated BMS/protection.  Therefore, have 
the possibility of being far more reliable/maintainable.


One unknown is the internal resistance of these small cell packs. Some 
may be good; some horrible. Ebikes don't draw much current, but a golf 
cart does!
The 20ah ebike batteries are SUPPOSED to be good for 30 amps.  I 
expected to need to use 3-5 in parallel.  I was surprised to discover a 
golf cart seems to run fine with 2.  With the 12xTS-LFP100 pack, I've 
observed a maximum 100-120 amps with non-alarming voltage sag.  As 
mentioned, I do not yet have an amphour counter on a ebike battery golf 
cart.



I will not accept the contention that lithium batteries should be
limited to 50%.


OK; so that's your hypothesis. Now do the testing, and see if it's 
correct.
That is outside my job description.  If you wish to test, I am willing 
to send you an ebike battery and one or two semi-good TS-LFP100s and/or 
TS-LFP260s.


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Re: [EVDL] Lead GC battery capacity

[Willie2 via EV]

On 07/28/2015 07:41 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

You're comparing apples and oranges.
Well, Robert, how so?  I presented three golf cart packs, each offering 
about 100ah of usable capacity.  Where did I go astray?


- six T105s would be about $900.
- 12 TS-LPF100s: about $1500 + $300 BMS
- five 20ah ebike batteries @ $285.  Total: $1425.
- Experience... indicates two 20ah ebike batteries can do ($570.)

Then also instead of six Trojans,  3 deep cycle 12v Lead batteries  at a
cost of $300 will also do the job.

Will 3 12v supply 100ah?  I would guess not.


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[EVDL] A bit more on ebike batteries in golf carts

[Willie2 via EV]

My plans are jelling.

https://plus.google.com/photos/102434734002949174273/albums/6175437758237518529

For those of you who can get to Google+



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[EVDL] Lead GC battery capacity

[Willie2 via EV]

Continuing to cogitate on ebike batteries:  can anyone give me a good 
estimate of the number of ah one can pull from a lead golf cart 
battery?  I'm thinking my 2 20ah ebike batteries are a pretty good 
fraction of a lead pack.  Can you keep a lead GC battery alive if you 
pull 100ah from it?

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Re: [EVDL] Lead GC battery capacity

[Willie2 via EV]

On 07/25/2015 03:25 PM, Lee Hart wrote:

From: Willie2 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org

Continuing to cogitate on ebike batteries:  can anyone give me a good
estimate of the number of ah one can pull from a lead golf cart
battery?  I'm thinking my 2 20ah ebike batteries are a pretty good
fraction of a lead pack.  Can you keep a lead GC battery alive if you
pull 100ah from it?

6v golf cart batteries are generally 220-240 amphours at the 20-hour rate 
(about 5 amps), and 100-180 amphours at the 100-amp rate. (The change in 
amphour capacity depending on current is the Peukert effect that people talk 
about.)

Golf cart batteries are designed for continuous loads of 75 amps, and will 
happily supply 200-500 amps peak for up to a minute. But life will suffer if 
you draw high currents for more than a minute or so.

For best life, you also want to limit depth of discharge to about 50% or so. 
This is true for most types of batteries; not just lead-acids. The deeper the 
discharge, the worse the life.
Thanks!  Bottom line, take away: 50-90 ah on a fresh lead pack. That 
pretty well matches my gut feel that my 40ah of ebike batteries is 
around half of a good lead pack.  I believe, in general, 80% or more of 
a lithium pack can be used.


I'm working on my second golf cart ebike conversion.  Just took out the 
12 100ah ThunderSkys.  When they were functional, I judged they had more 
capacity than the best lead I have used.  They weigh about 100 pounds.  
The 20 ah ebike batteries are supposed to weigh right at 10 pounds 
each.  The ebike batteries appear to have greater energy density than 
the TS-LFPs though I don't think they can have twice the density of LFP.


I recall that using lead, you got very little time with good performance 
since the voltage declines ~linearly.  With lithium, you can't guess the 
SOC from performance; the carts are sprightly most of the time.


I'm eager to get a meter working so I can measure capacity.

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Re: [EVDL] 48V Energy Meter (Lead-Acid)...

[Willie2 via EV]

On 07/24/2015 06:29 PM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:

On Fri Jul 24 13:27:24 PDT 2015 mgaxi...@gmail.com said:

I generally use the AH as my gas gauge.
The way it's setup, it's 0 when the pack is fully charged, and counts UP as you drive.  I 
know that my empty is around 140AH.

Note that it has a couple of relays that can be programmed to turn on/off based 
on voltage, current, or AH values.

The OP's messages are not getting to me through the list.  Probably a 
gmail thing.  I wonder how many other messages are not reaching me?


I just bought two those through EVWest:
http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37products_id=162osCsid=5a8sf76to9q7707lub03kbeb22

I just lashed one up but haven't much tested or done a permanent 
install.  But, it seems to work as advertised.  My applications are 36v 
golf carts (with ebike batteries).  The lash up used a 12v battery to 
power the device; I have some DC-DCs on order.  I found the instructions 
obscure but I think I have it working as needed. Seems like a great 
value.  Just as John says, a fuel gauge if you have a good idea of your 
battery capacity.  I've used TBS meters the same way for years.  The TBS 
is around $200 as I recall.


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Re: [EVDL] more on ebike batteries in golf carts

[Willie2 via EV]

On 07/21/2015 11:51 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

I'll be following this effort with interest.  I'm especially keen to see how
long they last for you.  The cheap Chinese bike batteries don't seem to have
a very good reputation on the ebike forums such as Endless Sphere.  However,
I think most riders there work them pretty hard, demanding high power from
them.  Your use may stress them less.  Please keep us updated.
I imagine you are correct on reliability.  The MAJOR attraction for me 
in doing things this way is maintainability.  If a battery goes out, the 
vehicle can keep going and the battery can easily be swapped out.


The golf cart I have running has given me no trouble in several charge 
cycles.  It is surprisingly sprightly considering the minimal 
batteries.  The pair of 20ah batteries are only supposed to supply 60 
amps; with a regular battery, I've seen as much a 100 amps.  I was 
expecting to have to put in 3 or 4 20ah batteries.  I do not have an ah 
counter on it but expect to soon.  So I can guess at my state of charge 
and know the discharge rates.

I also wonder where you found a 60 amp-hour ebike battery!  I haven't seen
any that big.  Isn't it pretty heavy for a bike?  Or is that more of a moped
or ecycle battery?
One of the ebike battery suppliers I've been talking to offers to build 
bigger batteries:

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/208817
I have two 72v 30ah batteries coming from them for my Zap.  If those 
work ok, I'm thinking of putting 4 or 5 120v or 144v 20ah batteries from 
that source in my Ranger.  20ah to keep the weight of each battery down 
to a manageable amount.


The ~20 ah batteries seem to come with 12ga discharge wire.  I've used 
SB50s to connect to my 10ga wire.  5 pair of 10ga wires soldered into 
two copper lugs to support up to 5 batteries.  I think those gauges and 
configurations may work for all three of my applications: 36v golf 
carts, 72v Zap, 120v or 144v Ranger conversion with a 9 motor.



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[EVDL] more on ebike batteries in golf carts

[Willie2 via EV]

I'm using two parallel 20ah 36v ebike batteries in a golf cart with good 
success.  I had been working with the mental model that all batteries in 
parallel should be of equal capacity.  On more careful consideration, I 
now see no reason to have equal capacity batteries.  That is, I might 
use one 20ah and one 60ah in parallel. Can anyone point out a flaw in my 
thinking?


I again comment that I am highly optimistic on the possibility of using 
chinese ebike type batteries in relatively large EVs.  The VERY large 
advantage over using a single series of large lithium cells is that the 
BMS/protection is built in and integrated.  Each battery balances it's 
cells and protects itself from both over charge and over discharge.  No 
rats nest of miniBMS modules to be protected from the elements.   And 
the price is very attractive. Single lithium cells are priced around 
$1.20/ah.  The ebike battery equivalent is around $1 delivered in the 
USA.  And as low as about $.70 in China.  Another very significant 
advantage is the modularity.  Bad batteries can be easily swapped out.  
Batteries can easily be added for increasing range and power.

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Re: [EVDL] Bicycle battery

[Willie2 via EV]

On 07/17/2015 11:47 AM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

From: EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org

I have one of those Watts Up meters.  It works nicely, within its
limitations. It's US made (!), and appears to be really well built. I use it
a fair bit.

However, the specs claim a current capacity of 50 amps continuous and 100
amps peak.  I think that's wildly optimistic.  The shunt is built in, and
you're right, the lead wires are only #14. I wouldn't use it at over 10-15
amps continuous.  Even at 15a, I keep a fan blowing on it.

I have one as well. I agree with David; it's well made and works as advertised. 
But indeed, it failed while continuously charging a battery at about 20-25 
amps. An autopsy revealed that it burned open the tiny shunt, which then 
applied full voltage across the current sensing circuit, and blew out the 
electronics as well.
I'm apparently not seeing all list postings.  This from Lee is all I've 
seen of the thread.


I looked at the Wattsup and mate and decided the wire did look too small 
to pass entire battery current.  That could be up around 100 amps.   I 
thought of putting one meter per 20ah battery but didn't much like that 
solution.  I have on order a couple of these:


http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37products_id=162

I already have shunts installed.

The first battery install went very well.  Two 20ah ebike batteries move 
the golf cart very nicely up the steepest hills I have.  Range is a 
guesstimated 5 miles.  I bought a total of four 20ah batteries so I will 
devote the other two to another golf cart.  I look forward to getting 
the above meters installed so I can monitor voltage sag, current, and 
amphour accumulations.


Here are some photos of the first golf cart:
https://plus.google.com/photos/102434734002949174273/albums/6172547067287965665

I ordered two 72v 30ah batteries for my Zap.  I plan to do the same with 
the Zap: make provision for about 5 batteries in parallel but install 
only two to begin with.


The battery supplier assures me that the overcharge protection is on the 
discharge wires as well as the charge wires.  That should allow me to 
charge with any old charger.  I plan not to use the charge wires at 
all.  Right now, I'm charging only with a little 2amp charger going into 
both batteries.  I did charge briefly with a big golf cart charger @ 
about 18 amps but didn't want to leave it unattended.


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Re: [EVDL] Bicycle battery

[Willie2 via EV]

On 07/05/2015 01:38 PM, Willie2 wrote:



I'm rather eagerly anticipating putting several 36v bicycle batteries 
in one or more golf carts.  LFP cells are quoted around $1.20 per ah 
and the equivalent cost for bicycle batteries is slightly less than 
$1.20 delivered.  BUT that includes a, hopefully, far more reliable 
BMS.  I have some 20ah 36v 30amp batteries on the way; I envision 
using about 3 in a golf cart. Also available are 30ah 36v 60amp 
batteries; two of those might serve in a golf cart. More later.


A question directed to Cor:  Why do bicycle batteries have both charge 
and discharge connections?


I now have a golf cart working on two 20ah ebike batteries.  Though I'm 
prepared to put as many as five batteries in, two seem to be supplying 
sufficient current.  This cart does not yet have an amphour counter.  
I've been using TBS meters but they are too expensive for this 
application.  Does anyone have suggestions for cheap ah counters?


This one:
http://www.rc-electronics-usa.com/meter-applications.html
is slightly intriguing, but it looks like it may run demand current 
through 14 ga wire.  I could probably use one per battery.


I'm rather optimistic about using this type of ebike battery to replace 
more troublesome large LFP cells with kludged up BMSs.


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Re: [EVDL] Bicycle battery

[Willie2 via EV]

On 07/05/2015 01:55 PM, Mike Beem wrote:
Willie- I would reply off-list if I could about this, but your contact 
info is not on the e-mail; maybe that's been going on for a while and 
I just haven't noticed because I haven't had any questions I wanted to 
ask any individuals for that same period of time. Anyway, I would like 
to have the contact/company information for these batteries as I want 
to upgrade my Terra Trike from lead acid (24V). I have been looking on 
eBay and the Tradin' Post for a while and haven't seen anything I 
would feel confident in ordering.


I've had generally good luck, not perfect, ordering through 
Alibaba/AliExpress.  Certainly, I would not guarantee  success for all, 
though.


Here are two suppliers that have piqued my interest:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/202225
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/208817
There are other ebike battery suppliers on Alibaba/AliExpress and i have 
not attempted to look at them all.


Most/all sell their batteries with chargers so i imagine a lead upgrade 
would be mostly a form factor problem.


BTW, your email address came to me from you list reply.  Are you viewing 
the list as a digest or through a forum?




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Re: [EVDL] Bicycle battery

[Willie2 via EV]

On 06/17/2015 01:55 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 17 Jun 2015 at 8:17, Willie2 via EV wrote:


I have a battery that looks to be a direct replacement coming from
China.  I don't want to fool with a battery that does not conform to
the form factor of the original battery.

Looks to be sounds a little discomfiting.  I hope you get what you expect.

I see a lot of questionable generic lithium batteries going at tantalizingly
low prices on Ebay and the like, but my caution always kicks in: you don't
always get what you pay for, but you very seldom get what you don't pay for.


This battery is now in service (on an ebike) and has been through a few 
cycles.  It was a direct replacement as far as form factor.  No trouble 
so far.


I'm rather eagerly anticipating putting several 36v bicycle batteries in 
one or more golf carts.  LFP cells are quoted around $1.20 per ah and 
the equivalent cost for bicycle batteries is slightly less than $1.20 
delivered.  BUT that includes a, hopefully, far more reliable BMS.  I 
have some 20ah 36v 30amp batteries on the way; I envision using about 3 
in a golf cart.  Also available are 30ah 36v 60amp batteries; two of 
those might serve in a golf cart. More later.


A question directed to Cor:  Why do bicycle batteries have both charge 
and discharge connections?



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Re: [EVDL] BMS/ leaf 60ah vs calb 60ah cells

[Willie2 via EV]

On 06/29/2015 07:38 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 29 Jun 2015 at 22:43, Jay Summet via EV wrote:


Here is the link to the MiniBMS units:
http://minibms.mybigcommerce.com/minibms-cell-module/

You buy the 4.2 volt - LiNMC cells ( Leaf, Volt, etc ) option.

Are those pc boards conformal coated?  They look kind of naked.
He claims they're coated with something.  I've had a GREAT many fail 
when not well protected.


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Re: [EVDL] Bicycle battery

[Willie2 via EV]

On 06/19/2015 10:58 AM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

I have Lithium cells (CALB 180Ah) sitting in my garage since 1.5 years
and have measured their self-discharge and plotted it in an Excel 
spreadsheet.

I can *see* their self-discharge.
I can *see* effect from ambient temperature on the change in 
self-discharge rate...
I can *see* differences up to a factor 2 in self-discharge between 
cells...


I've done the same thing with Thundersky. The results were the same, 
except that the self-discharge rates differed by more than 4:1.


Additionally, the self-discharge rate is dramatically faster at higher 
states of charge. The closer it gets to 0 SOC, the slower the 
self-discharge rate.


Since the voltage-vs-state of charge curve is so flat from about 
20-80% SOC, voltage alone is a poor indicator of state of charge. This 
will fool you into thinking there is no self-discharge, because the 
voltage won't change enough to measure between these SOCs.


To determine how much charge was lost over time, I fully charge the 
cells. Then let them sit in parallel for a day. Then remove the 
connections, and wait X days. Then measure the amphour capacity of 
each cell. Recharge the cells, and repeat the process, but with 
successively larger values of X. So for example, I might find that a 
60ah cell yields:


- 60ah for X = 1 day after charging
- 58ah for X = 30 days after charging
- 56ah for X = 6 months after charging
- 54ah for X = 1 year after charging

Now, 10% a year is a pretty low self-discharge rate. 6ah per year 
corresponds to an 8ma self-discharge current. The problem is that it 
varies so much between cells. It means the cells can drift 10% apart 
per year. This won't matter in the short term, but it adds up over time.


I'm also testing a set of A123 cells. The self-discharge rate is 
similar, but the differences between cells is much smaller; less than 
2:1. I'm coming up on the 2-year point for them next month.


Thanks for the methodology for REALLY measuring self discharge.  I was 
quite taken aback when Paul claimed there was none!  All cell 
manufacturers make claims on low self discharge but, as far as I know, 
no manufacturer claims no self discharge.  I am curious as to how Paul 
came to his belief.


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Re: [EVDL] Bicycle battery

[Willie2 via EV]

On 06/19/2015 11:58 AM, Ben Goren wrote:

On Jun 19, 2015, at 9:33 AM, Willie2 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:


I am curious as to how Paul came to his belief.

His methodology is inadequate to the task -- rather like using a roadside truck 
scale to weigh the first four people to pass by and concluding that all humans 
weigh exactly 200 pounds.
You may be implying that Paul attempted to deduce self discharge from 
cell voltage?


When my first lithium pack was new, I was frequently amazed that 
NUMEROUS EV folks with extensive lead experience would put a volt meter 
to my cells and proclaim: Why these cells are PERFECTLY balanced!  I 
don't know how many times I've attempted to explain that it is almost 
impossible to determine state of charge from voltage on lithium cells.  
Other than at the tails, of course.


Though I don't know that Paul made that mistake.

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[EVDL] Dahm + TSLA

[Willie2 via EV]

http://www.businessfinancenews.com/22722-tesla-motors-inc-partners-with-researcher-to-reduce-battery-costs/ 


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Re: [EVDL] Bicycle battery

[Willie2 via EV]

On 06/17/2015 05:33 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
it appears that my flooded pack does much better than your Lithium 
packs with mini BMS.
That may well be true.  However, it does not deal with the major 
problem: my lack of diligence.  I've had lead batteries.  I don't want 
any more.  I have enough trouble dealing with starting batteries in a 
multitude of EVs and tractors.


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Re: [EVDL] hybrid pack cells for : eBicycle battery

[Willie2 via EV]

On 06/17/2015 01:46 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Bicycle-battery-tp4676242p4676287.html
On 06/15/2015 11:12 AM, Willie2 wrote:

A battery for my Prodeco bicycle turned up dead ... 36v, ~10ah ...

Thanks for the responses!  ...  I had hoped to be pointed to some battery
repair service such as exists for hybrid batteries.
]



For hybrid pack repair biz in TX, see
https://www.google.com/search?q=repair+service+hybrid+battery+texas


For a larger loop (widen the search outside TX), use:
https://www.google.com/search?q=repair+service+hybrid+batteries


Also you could consider contacting a TI engineer more local to you, see

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Trey-German-s-Chariot-of-Fire-e-quadricycle-20-bikes-Prius-cells-tp4676044.html
EVLN: Trey German's Chariot-of-Fire e-quadricycle 20bikesPrius-cells
Jun 05 2015

he ( treygerman at ti .com ) might have some pointers or ideas as he used
hybrid pack cells to build his 4wheel ecycle.

Thanks, Bruce.  But, I was wanting to find a business that specialized 
in repairing ebike batteries.  I mentioned hybrid battery repair because 
I knew that market niche had been filled due to demand and I thought 
maybe a ebike repair business had been stimulated by similar demand.  I 
do not want to consider putting a hybrid battery in an ebike.


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Re: [EVDL] Bicycle battery

[Willie2 via EV]

On 06/17/2015 04:08 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

Willie,

To try and interpret your answer on David's question:
It looks like you are not running your golf carts with golf cart batteries
(flooded lead acid) which would give you what you are asking for:
occasional charging and easily a year (when used little) between watering.
This is also likely the lowest cost and lowest complexity (no BMS, no 
sophisticated charger).
Thanks, but I refer you to my previously stated view of lead.  I have 
three golf carts each with 12 100ah LFP and miniBMS modules. The Zap has 
25 100ah LFP and the Ranger 40 (or is it 39?) 160-180ah LFP.

Golf cars are pretty economical and reliable with lead golf car batteries.
I can not agree.  In my experience, lead in golf carts is FAR more demanding in 
terms of maintenance.  Monthly watering, bad battery connections, corrosion, 
rusted out battery boxes, general nastiness, ever declining capacity.


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[EVDL] Bicycle battery

[Willie2 via EV]

A battery for my Prodeco bicycle turned up dead.  The OEM replacement is 
nearly $500.  Can someone point me toward a better solution?  36v, 
~10ah.  Has anyone heard of anyone doing cell replacements?

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Re: [EVDL] simple AC

[Willie2 via EV]

Air conditioning is one of several horror stories associated with my 
Hyundai conversion.  It started with a tail shaft belt drive for the OEM 
compressor.  The belt drive as initially configured failed to transmit 
enough torque to drive the compressor reliably.  A reconfiguration of 
the belt geometry had some problem also, I don't remember what.  I was 
unhappy with the belt drive anyway; it made the no clutch configuration 
difficult to shift.


On to a MasterFlux. an electric solution.  The MasterFlux had 
insufficient cooling capacity and failed in short order.  I gave up on 
it and ordered namebrandforgotten.  Money up front and extremely slow 
delivery, like a year.  These people were seeking OEM business and did 
not really want to fool with one offs.  It ran a few hours, then failed.


I have somewhere north of $10k in air conditioning and had a total of 
less than 5 hours of cooling in about 8 years.


My advice on air conditioning: buy an imiev, buy a Tesla, even buy a 
Leaf.  My imiev cost very little more than I expended on the Hyundai air 
conditioner.  And I have good reliable air conditioning on the imiev 
from day one.

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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 32, Issue 18

[Willie2 via EV]

On 06/11/2015 10:38 PM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:

On 6/11/2015 3:00 PM, David Miller via EV wrote:

Everyone,
One of our Rav4EV News Group guys converted his Rav4 to Lithium for ~$7.5 
total.  $5k for
95 batteries and $2.5k for the BMS. His conversion adds j1772 charging 
capability as well.  He
gets a 90 mile range and has sporty acceleration.I don't know how long his 
CALB 40AH
LiFEPO4 prismatic Batteries (CA40FI) will last.

I doubt he gets a 90 mile range.
12KWh/90 miles == 133Wh/mile.
In a Rav4?  Highly unlikely.
Yes and looking at it another way: the 90 mile range would indicate an 
average discharge rate of about .5C.  A low demand on the cells. I would 
guess the range is no more than 50 miles.  Probably less.



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