[EVDL] BMW i3
I heard on NPR that BMW is going to advertise the i3 during the superbowl. Anyone else hear about this? Peri -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150130/7be03312/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BMW i3 EV TV ad during Superbowl
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVsOnTVs-i3-EV-ad-has-Gumbel-driving-asking-w-Couric-saying-maybe-v-tp4673624.html
EVsOnTVs: i3 EV ad has Gumbel drivingasking w/ Couric saying maybe (v) by
brucedp
Jan 26 2015
{brucedp.150m.com}
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On Thu, Jan 29, 2015, at 05:55 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
I heard on NPR that BMW is going to advertise the i3 during the
superbowl. Anyone else hear about this?
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Re: [EVDL] BMW i3
My i-Miev has a similar set up which, also, works extremely well. The regen you get with foot off both pedals is probably at least twice or even 3 times the engine (or plug) braking effect on an ICEV but can be modulated by leaving your foot on the accelerator to some degree. It has been very easy to learn to use this for best overall driving effect; - efficiency and comfort. It is interesting to note when I get back into an ICEV that this effect is not only obviously missing but also very much missed. If you brake during regen the 'econometer' indicates yet more regen which is also modulated ie the harder you brake the more regen you get - up to (or down to, rather) about 5mph when the regen appears to stop completely and then it's brakes only bringing you that last bit to a stop. All very smooth and completely seamless. What I haven't discovered yet is if the brake lights come on with both feet off the pedals... MW On 17 Jan 2014, at 15:07, Ben Apollonio wrote: As far as I know, Tesla actually pioneered that approach to regen, but I've seen many reviews of the i3 where people think it's a novel idea. At first I didn't like the feel, but after further thought, it's far superior than the Prius model (light regen to simulate engine drag, plus additional regen on the brake pedal). Not only is driving smooth and easy, but you know exactly where the line is between regen and friction brakes. You also get a more responsive brake pedal. -Ben On Jan 16, 2014, at 4:22 PM, Rush Dougherty wrote: Indeed they did! I posted the controller from a 1902 Baker on my web page at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/Controllers.htm. It had a compound motor, and used both regenerative and dynamic braking. In fact, it had no mechanical brakes! Just a mechanical parking brake. I drove the BMW i3 yesterday. It has very strong regenerative braking. The more you let up on the go pedal (what do we call the accelerator pedal for an EV?), the stronger the regen is. If you don't tailgate the guy in front of you, you don't need to brake, it will regen to a stop. And to 'coast', according to the display on the dashboard, there is no usage of the battery pack. I really liked it if only for that one reason. And it has Excellent acceleration... well, I also really liked the acceleration... Rush www.TucsonEV.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BMW i3
The HPEVS motors/Curtis controllers can be set up this way. The Curtis software is very flexible in this regard. There are two inputs: Neutral_Braking under the Torque Mode menu, which works off the accelerator pedal, and Brake Menu for a separate Brake input to the controller. The Regen Limiting Map under the Current Limits Map menu can be used to limit how much regen you get at different motor rpm - to avoid very high regen if you remove your foot from the accelerator at high rpm for example. There is a similar Brake Map. I use only Neutral_Braking but HPEVS generally uses both, setting up fairly strong regen off the accelerator pedal, and then applying more with the Brake function through the vehicle's brake pedal. It is easy to tailor them as you want using the hand held programmer or the Curtis PC software. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/BMW-i3-tp4667514p4667554.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BMW i3
As far as I know, Tesla actually pioneered that approach to regen, but I've seen many reviews of the i3 where people think it's a novel idea. At first I didn't like the feel, but after further thought, it's far superior than the Prius model (light regen to simulate engine drag, plus additional regen on the brake pedal). Not only is driving smooth and easy, but you know exactly where the line is between regen and friction brakes. You also get a more responsive brake pedal. -Ben On Jan 16, 2014, at 4:22 PM, Rush Dougherty wrote: Indeed they did! I posted the controller from a 1902 Baker on my web page at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/Controllers.htm. It had a compound motor, and used both regenerative and dynamic braking. In fact, it had no mechanical brakes! Just a mechanical parking brake. I drove the BMW i3 yesterday. It has very strong regenerative braking. The more you let up on the go pedal (what do we call the accelerator pedal for an EV?), the stronger the regen is. If you don't tailgate the guy in front of you, you don't need to brake, it will regen to a stop. And to 'coast', according to the display on the dashboard, there is no usage of the battery pack. I really liked it if only for that one reason. And it has Excellent acceleration... well, I also really liked the acceleration... Rush www.TucsonEV.com ___ Unlimited Disk, Data Transfer, PHP/MySQL Domain Hosting http://www.doteasy.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BMW i3
One of the first cars I ever worked on, to put plugs in, was a 3 cylinder SAAB from the 60's. It had a coast mode for off throttle activated by a toggle switch. I can't recall if this was a 2 stork engine or not, I wouldn't really have know the difference then. A 2 stroke wouldn't have slowed much in out of coast mode. But it probably saved gas. On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Ben Apollonio e...@bapollo.com wrote: As far as I know, Tesla actually pioneered that approach to regen, but I've seen many reviews of the i3 where people think it's a novel idea. At first I didn't like the feel, but after further thought, it's far superior than the Prius model (light regen to simulate engine drag, plus additional regen on the brake pedal). Not only is driving smooth and easy, but you know exactly where the line is between regen and friction brakes. You also get a more responsive brake pedal. -Ben On Jan 16, 2014, at 4:22 PM, Rush Dougherty wrote: Indeed they did! I posted the controller from a 1902 Baker on my web page at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/Controllers.htm. It had a compound motor, and used both regenerative and dynamic braking. In fact, it had no mechanical brakes! Just a mechanical parking brake. I drove the BMW i3 yesterday. It has very strong regenerative braking. The more you let up on the go pedal (what do we call the accelerator pedal for an EV?), the stronger the regen is. If you don't tailgate the guy in front of you, you don't need to brake, it will regen to a stop. And to 'coast', according to the display on the dashboard, there is no usage of the battery pack. I really liked it if only for that one reason. And it has Excellent acceleration... well, I also really liked the acceleration... Rush www.TucsonEV.com ___ Unlimited Disk, Data Transfer, PHP/MySQL Domain Hosting http://www.doteasy.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, The summer day. To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edisonhttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140117/006c7ae2/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BMW i3
Drivers of the early 1980's electreks describe exactly that. One told me that he turfed the tires at 50mph on the freeway by letting up on the gas pedal too fast. I don't think BMW or tesla was the first. Z Sent from my iPhone On Jan 17, 2014, at 10:40 AM, Michael Ross michael.e.r...@gmail.com wrote: One of the first cars I ever worked on, to put plugs in, was a 3 cylinder SAAB from the 60's. It had a coast mode for off throttle activated by a toggle switch. I can't recall if this was a 2 stork engine or not, I wouldn't really have know the difference then. A 2 stroke wouldn't have slowed much in out of coast mode. But it probably saved gas. On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Ben Apollonio e...@bapollo.com wrote: As far as I know, Tesla actually pioneered that approach to regen, but I've seen many reviews of the i3 where people think it's a novel idea. At first I didn't like the feel, but after further thought, it's far superior than the Prius model (light regen to simulate engine drag, plus additional regen on the brake pedal). Not only is driving smooth and easy, but you know exactly where the line is between regen and friction brakes. You also get a more responsive brake pedal. -Ben On Jan 16, 2014, at 4:22 PM, Rush Dougherty wrote: Indeed they did! I posted the controller from a 1902 Baker on my web page at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/Controllers.htm. It had a compound motor, and used both regenerative and dynamic braking. In fact, it had no mechanical brakes! Just a mechanical parking brake. I drove the BMW i3 yesterday. It has very strong regenerative braking. The more you let up on the go pedal (what do we call the accelerator pedal for an EV?), the stronger the regen is. If you don't tailgate the guy in front of you, you don't need to brake, it will regen to a stop. And to 'coast', according to the display on the dashboard, there is no usage of the battery pack. I really liked it if only for that one reason. And it has Excellent acceleration... well, I also really liked the acceleration... Rush www.TucsonEV.com ___ Unlimited Disk, Data Transfer, PHP/MySQL Domain Hosting http://www.doteasy.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, The summer day. To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edisonhttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140117/006c7ae2/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BMW i3
Ross Blade's commercial conversions BEV.com.au used an Azure controller that does this style of regen. The first time someone drives it they usually trip the cutoff when they take their foot off the pedal. I rarely touch the brakes while in motion. John Lindsay On 18 Jan 2014, at 1:37 am, Ben Apollonio e...@bapollo.com wrote: As far as I know, Tesla actually pioneered that approach to regen, but I've seen many reviews of the i3 where people think it's a novel idea. At first I didn't like the feel, but after further thought, it's far superior than the Prius model (light regen to simulate engine drag, plus additional regen on the brake pedal). Not only is driving smooth and easy, but you know exactly where the line is between regen and friction brakes. You also get a more responsive brake pedal. -Ben On Jan 16, 2014, at 4:22 PM, Rush Dougherty wrote: Indeed they did! I posted the controller from a 1902 Baker on my web page at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/Controllers.htm. It had a compound motor, and used both regenerative and dynamic braking. In fact, it had no mechanical brakes! Just a mechanical parking brake. I drove the BMW i3 yesterday. It has very strong regenerative braking. The more you let up on the go pedal (what do we call the accelerator pedal for an EV?), the stronger the regen is. If you don't tailgate the guy in front of you, you don't need to brake, it will regen to a stop. And to 'coast', according to the display on the dashboard, there is no usage of the battery pack. I really liked it if only for that one reason. And it has Excellent acceleration... well, I also really liked the acceleration... Rush www.TucsonEV.com ___ Unlimited Disk, Data Transfer, PHP/MySQL Domain Hosting http://www.doteasy.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BMW i3
The 1994 US Electricar factory conversions of S10 and Prizm had a selectable (as well as programmable) regen amount, it was possible to get an axle-crunching regen since a typical AC drive can generate a braking force greater than the max acceleration, for two reasons: - during acceleration, inefficiency in motor and drivetrain cause a lower power at the wheels than the max that the controller can develop, while during deceleration (regen) the losses work the other way: the power removed at the wheels is larger than the electrical power generated by the motor into the inverter, the deceleration force can easily be almost twice the acceleration force, for the same power going through the inverter! - secondly, during charging the battery voltage is higher than during discharging while many ocntrollers have a current limit only, so a higher pack voltage means higher power capability of the controller than during acceleration. The combination can cause the deceleration force to be easily more than twice the acceleration force, depending on pack voltage swing and efficiency of the drivetrain (motor + gearbox + diff + CV + ...) Most factory EVs will limit the regen power to a fraction of what the controller can handle, to keep batteries within their spec'ed rate of charge Regards, Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 -Original Message- From: ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of John Lindsay Sent: Friday, January 17, 2014 2:41 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] BMW i3 Ross Blade's commercial conversions BEV.com.au used an Azure controller that does this style of regen. The first time someone drives it they usually trip the cutoff when they take their foot off the pedal. I rarely touch the brakes while in motion. John Lindsay On 18 Jan 2014, at 1:37 am, Ben Apollonio e...@bapollo.com wrote: As far as I know, Tesla actually pioneered that approach to regen, but I've seen many reviews of the i3 where people think it's a novel idea. At first I didn't like the feel, but after further thought, it's far superior than the Prius model (light regen to simulate engine drag, plus additional regen on the brake pedal). Not only is driving smooth and easy, but you know exactly where the line is between regen and friction brakes. You also get a more responsive brake pedal. -Ben On Jan 16, 2014, at 4:22 PM, Rush Dougherty wrote: Indeed they did! I posted the controller from a 1902 Baker on my web page at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/Controllers.htm. It had a compound motor, and used both regenerative and dynamic braking. In fact, it had no mechanical brakes! Just a mechanical parking brake. I drove the BMW i3 yesterday. It has very strong regenerative braking. The more you let up on the go pedal (what do we call the accelerator pedal for an EV?), the stronger the regen is. If you don't tailgate the guy in front of you, you don't need to brake, it will regen to a stop. And to 'coast', according to the display on the dashboard, there is no usage of the battery pack. I really liked it if only for that one reason. And it has Excellent acceleration... well, I also really liked the acceleration... Rush www.TucsonEV.com ___ Unlimited Disk, Data Transfer, PHP/MySQL Domain Hosting http://www.doteasy.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] BMW i3
Indeed they did! I posted the controller from a 1902 Baker on my web page at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/Controllers.htm. It had a compound motor, and used both regenerative and dynamic braking. In fact, it had no mechanical brakes! Just a mechanical parking brake. I drove the BMW i3 yesterday. It has very strong regenerative braking. The more you let up on the go pedal (what do we call the accelerator pedal for an EV?), the stronger the regen is. If you don't tailgate the guy in front of you, you don't need to brake, it will regen to a stop. And to 'coast', according to the display on the dashboard, there is no usage of the battery pack. I really liked it if only for that one reason. And it has Excellent acceleration... well, I also really liked the acceleration... Rush www.TucsonEV.com ___ Unlimited Disk, Data Transfer, PHP/MySQL Domain Hosting http://www.doteasy.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BMW i3 diss's Leaf, Volt, Ford, praises Tesla
On 30 Jul 2013 at 12:47, robert winfield wrote: BMW aims to win a meaningful segment of the electric car market with its i-series battery-powered models ... Please pardon my cynicism, but I've heard this song before. GM was going to make a business of the EV1, too. They certainly did give it the business. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] BMW i3 diss's Leaf, Volt, Ford, praises Tesla
By Andreas Cremer and Deepa Seetharaman LONDON/NEW YORK, July 29 (Reuters) - BMW aims to win a meaningful segment of the electric car market with its i-series battery-powered models by offering luxurious styling and packages designed to help owners overcome the traditional hurdles to electric car ownership.Among the incentives offered by the world's biggest luxury carmaker is what it calls BMW add-on mobility, which gives owners access to a pool of traditional gas-powered BMW vehicles to use on longer journeys when an electric car might not be practical.The option aims to allay a common concern among potential buyers of electric cars -- so-called range anxiety, or the fear of being stranded when the battery runs out of electricity. This is part of BMW's broader push to broaden the appeal of its i3 electric car, which was unveiled by executives in three cities worldwide on Monday.The company said the projected range for its i3 standard model would be about 80-100 miles (130-160 km) on a single charge.We're not entering to be a niche player, BMW sales chief Ian Robertson told reporters at the i3's launch event in London, staged to coincide with others in New York and Beijing.We're targeting meaningful sales, he said, in an electric-car market that BMW expects will grow to between 150,000 and 160,000 vehicles globally this year, from 7,000 in 2010.BMW has declined to give sales or production goals for the four-seater i3, to be followed early next year by a battery-powered i8 sports car. During an interview with Reuters TV, BMW Chief Executive Officer Norbert Reithofer said he expects the vehicle to make a positive contribution to earnings immediately.Limited driving ranges, high prices and relatively spartan interiors have hobbled demand for electric vehicles made the other car makers with including Nissan Motor Co Ltd, General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. Edmunds.com predicts electric cars will account for 0.1 percent of the U.S. market this year, 1.1 percent in 2017 and 2.3 percent by 2020.BMW joins U.S. automaker Tesla Motors Inc in trying to change the stereotype of electric cars through beautiful styling. Both companies are also taking steps to make owning a battery powered car easier. BMW's Reithofer called Tesla an example of how a premium car company could approach the electric car market.Tesla is one of those brands which is trying to make this type of car premium and emotionally involving, said Adrian van Hooydonk, senior vice president of group design for BMW.Tesla has said it expects to deliver 21,000 Model S cars worldwide. The strength of demand for the Model S has surprised industry experts, investors and analysts.The upcoming i8 will rival Tesla's Model S sedan, which starts at around $70,000 before a federal tax credit. Tesla is working on a lower cost vehicle that would compete with the i3.BMW already sees good sales potential for its first all-electric vehicle in affluent urban regions of California, Europe and Asia, Robertson said. Some 92,000 people have expressed an interest online in test-driving the i3.Demand will rise as the number of people living in urban environments more than doubles to 4-5 billion over the next 20-25 years, Robertson said, citing United Nations projections.While the i3's 34,950 euro ($46,400) price tag is well above the conventional BMW 3-Series sedans, it also qualifies for tax breaks and generous upfront government incentives in markets such as Britain and the United States.The company, which has trademarked its new i series through to i9, does not yet have another i-branded model in development to follow the i8, Robertson said. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
