Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings bite them in the arse
I wonder why they didn't' design a battery warmer into the case (at least I assume they didn't). Seems that would have made a tremendous difference in this case. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV" To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Cc: "Mark Abramowitz" ; "brucedp5" Sent: 28-May-19 11:54:38 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings bite them in the arse It’s not about whether or not the range is lower at lower temperatures, or what you get in your car, but the accuracy of the claims being made by vendors of zero emission technologies, and the commitments they make to customers. BYD has some *great* products and is run by sone great folks, but this kind of thing undermines the ability to transform fleets to zero emissions. It hurts all of us working in the field when companies fail to meet the contracted performance specs in their contracts. And this is not the only similar horror story I’ve heard (though not necessarily about BYD). There is really no excuse for this. I will likely see BYD’s President later this week, and will be expressing my disappointment. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone On May 28, 2019, at 7:58 PM, Rod Hower via EV wrote: Anybody that drives an EV, even a Volt that is a series hybrid realize the cold temperature limitations, especially if you like to keep it warm and cozy on cold days. I get 46 miles EV on my 2014 Volt on the best days, 24 miles on the coldest nastiest days when I like to keep the car warm and toasty. Not a problem for me since I commute 21 miles and plug in at work and I also plug in at home with 240V so I never use gas. My best guess is this BYD range was estimated by sales and marketing while the engineers were cringing in the corner knowing it was complete BS, but the accounting department and upper management looking for higher returns on investment realized range needed to be increased to meet contracts with bus fleets that required the higher range, regardless of them actually needing them. The good news is that the majority of bus manufactures see the writing on the wall and are planning for an all electric fleet knowing that will be demanded soon by many fleet orders. The immediate future for bus transit is electric and most manufactures are already gearing up for that. With the advancements in batteries, motors and controls, most fleet operators realize that electric is cheaper to maintain than diesel or natural gas. The transitions will not happen overnight, been when the people paying for overall cost of fleet operation is much cheaper on electric they will switch, and it's coming soon < 5 years. On Tuesday, May 28, 2019, 10:34:59 PM EDT, brucedp5 via EV wrote: https://electrek.co/2019/05/24/byd-indianapolis-electric-bus-range/ BYD installing wireless charging in Indianapolis to boost disappointing range of its electric buses May. 24th 2019 [image https://i2.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/05/indygobydbus.jpg e-bus ] Electric bus maker BYD has to install and pay for a wireless charging infrastructure upgrade in Indianapolis after its buses experienced “lower-than-expected distances on one charge” during testing. Indianapolis Public Transportation Corporation IndyGo announced it reached an agreement with BYD to get the new infrastructure. BYD will install wireless charging hardware for the buses, in addition to three wireless inductive charging pads along bus routes. During testing, IndyGo realized low temperatures were causing a dramatic dropoff in predicted range. Justin Stuehrenberg, IndyGo vice president of capital projects and planning, said: “We anticipated that vehicle range would depend on temperature, but the contract requires a 275-mile range at 0 degrees. Our team identified several options to address the issue and worked closely with BYD to determine the most feasible resolution. At the same time, we made it clear to the company they must be accountable to our contract. Numerous test days this spring resulted in range performance at and above the contractually required 275 miles on a single charge. To date, the best range of any one test was 307 miles on a single charge.” Many of those tests didn’t approach the required 275 miles, usually ending somewhere in the low 200-mile range, as the range report from IndyGo reveals. On one frigid day, range was limited to 152 miles. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings bite them in the arse
It’s not about whether or not the range is lower at lower temperatures, or what you get in your car, but the accuracy of the claims being made by vendors of zero emission technologies, and the commitments they make to customers. BYD has some *great* products and is run by sone great folks, but this kind of thing undermines the ability to transform fleets to zero emissions. It hurts all of us working in the field when companies fail to meet the contracted performance specs in their contracts. And this is not the only similar horror story I’ve heard (though not necessarily about BYD). There is really no excuse for this. I will likely see BYD’s President later this week, and will be expressing my disappointment. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On May 28, 2019, at 7:58 PM, Rod Hower via EV wrote: > > Anybody that drives an EV, even a Volt that is a series hybrid realize the > cold temperature limitations, especially if you like to keep it warm and cozy > on cold days. I get 46 miles EV on my 2014 Volt on the best days, 24 miles > on the coldest nastiest days when I like to keep the car warm and toasty. > Not a problem for me since I commute 21 miles and plug in at work and I also > plug in at home with 240V so I never use gas. My best guess is this BYD > range was estimated by sales and marketing while the engineers were cringing > in the corner knowing it was complete BS, but the accounting department and > upper management looking for higher returns on investment realized range > needed to be increased to meet contracts with bus fleets that required the > higher range, regardless of them actually needing them. The good news is > that the majority of bus manufactures see the writing on the wall and are > planning for an all electric fleet knowing that will be demanded soon by many > fleet orders. The immediate future for bus transit is electric and most > manufactures are already gearing up for that. With the advancements in > batteries, motors and controls, most fleet operators realize that electric is > cheaper to maintain than diesel or natural gas. The transitions will not > happen overnight, been when the people paying for overall cost of fleet > operation is much cheaper on electric they will switch, and it's coming soon > < 5 years. >On Tuesday, May 28, 2019, 10:34:59 PM EDT, brucedp5 via EV > wrote: > > > > https://electrek.co/2019/05/24/byd-indianapolis-electric-bus-range/ > BYD installing wireless charging in Indianapolis to boost disappointing > range of its electric buses > May. 24th 2019 > > [image > https://i2.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/05/indygobydbus.jpg > e-bus > ] > > Electric bus maker BYD has to install and pay for a wireless charging > infrastructure upgrade in Indianapolis after its buses experienced > “lower-than-expected distances on one charge” during testing. > > Indianapolis Public Transportation Corporation IndyGo announced it reached > an agreement with BYD to get the new infrastructure. BYD will install > wireless charging hardware for the buses, in addition to three wireless > inductive charging pads along bus routes. > > During testing, IndyGo realized low temperatures were causing a dramatic > dropoff in predicted range. Justin Stuehrenberg, IndyGo vice president of > capital projects and planning, said: > > “We anticipated that vehicle range would depend on temperature, but the > contract requires a 275-mile range at 0 degrees. Our team identified several > options to address the issue and worked closely with BYD to determine the > most feasible resolution. At the same time, we made it clear to the company > they must be accountable to our contract. Numerous test days this spring > resulted in range performance at and above the contractually required 275 > miles on a single charge. To date, the best range of any one test was 307 > miles on a single charge.” > > Many of those tests didn’t approach the required 275 miles, usually ending > somewhere in the low 200-mile range, as the range report from IndyGo > reveals. On one frigid day, range was limited to 152 miles. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings bite them in the arse
Anybody that drives an EV, even a Volt that is a series hybrid realize the
cold temperature limitations, especially if you like to keep it warm and cozy
on cold days. I get 46 miles EV on my 2014 Volt on the best days, 24 miles on
the coldest nastiest days when I like to keep the car warm and toasty. Not a
problem for me since I commute 21 miles and plug in at work and I also plug in
at home with 240V so I never use gas. My best guess is this BYD range was
estimated by sales and marketing while the engineers were cringing in the
corner knowing it was complete BS, but the accounting department and upper
management looking for higher returns on investment realized range needed to be
increased to meet contracts with bus fleets that required the higher range,
regardless of them actually needing them. The good news is that the majority
of bus manufactures see the writing on the wall and are planning for an all
electric fleet knowing that will be demanded soon by many fleet orders. The
immediate future for bus transit is electric and most manufactures are already
gearing up for that. With the advancements in batteries, motors and controls,
most fleet operators realize that electric is cheaper to maintain than diesel
or natural gas. The transitions will not happen overnight, been when the
people paying for overall cost of fleet operation is much cheaper on electric
they will switch, and it's coming soon < 5 years.
On Tuesday, May 28, 2019, 10:34:59 PM EDT, brucedp5 via EV
wrote:
https://electrek.co/2019/05/24/byd-indianapolis-electric-bus-range/
BYD installing wireless charging in Indianapolis to boost disappointing
range of its electric buses
May. 24th 2019
[image
https://i2.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/05/indygobydbus.jpg
e-bus
]
Electric bus maker BYD has to install and pay for a wireless charging
infrastructure upgrade in Indianapolis after its buses experienced
“lower-than-expected distances on one charge” during testing.
Indianapolis Public Transportation Corporation IndyGo announced it reached
an agreement with BYD to get the new infrastructure. BYD will install
wireless charging hardware for the buses, in addition to three wireless
inductive charging pads along bus routes.
During testing, IndyGo realized low temperatures were causing a dramatic
dropoff in predicted range. Justin Stuehrenberg, IndyGo vice president of
capital projects and planning, said:
“We anticipated that vehicle range would depend on temperature, but the
contract requires a 275-mile range at 0 degrees. Our team identified several
options to address the issue and worked closely with BYD to determine the
most feasible resolution. At the same time, we made it clear to the company
they must be accountable to our contract. Numerous test days this spring
resulted in range performance at and above the contractually required 275
miles on a single charge. To date, the best range of any one test was 307
miles on a single charge.”
Many of those tests didn’t approach the required 275 miles, usually ending
somewhere in the low 200-mile range, as the range report from IndyGo
reveals. On one frigid day, range was limited to 152 miles.
BYD’s buses will now periodically charge for 10-20 minutes at the three
wireless locations. IndyGo claims it can be done without interrupting
service, as drivers will take scheduled breaks with no passengers on board
during those times.
This isn’t the only time BYD’s buses have encountered range issues.
Albuquerque opted to “reject and return” 15 BYD electric buses last year.
The buses experienced range, braking, and electrical issues, the Albuquerque
Journal reported. Albuquerque then decided to order diesel buses.
Indianapolis is pushing forward with the wireless charging plan instead.
Stuehrenberg said a bus system in Washington state uses a similar wireless
system that works in any weather, according to an IndyStar report.
IndyGo’s Red Line is aiming to be the nation’s first battery-electric bus
rapid transit route, and it’s set to launch Sept. 1. IndyGo plans to operate
a 100 percent electric bus fleet by 2035.
Electrek’s Take
We’d like to stress that this sort of thing is not a problem for
all-electric buses, but it does seem to be a bit of a problem for BYD. The
Chinese manufacturer has sold many buses to other countries, as well — see
our Latin America electric bus update from earlier today.
We’re hoping the manufacturer can resolve its issues — not due to any sort
of allegiance to that particular company, but because we don’t need more
obstacles to widespread bus adoption, especially in the US. Any repeat of
Albuquerque would be a big setback.
[© electrek.co]
For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
http://evdl.org/archive/
{brucedp.neocities.org}
--
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[EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings bite them in the arse
https://electrek.co/2019/05/24/byd-indianapolis-electric-bus-range/
BYD installing wireless charging in Indianapolis to boost disappointing
range of its electric buses
May. 24th 2019
[image
https://i2.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/05/indygobydbus.jpg
e-bus
]
Electric bus maker BYD has to install and pay for a wireless charging
infrastructure upgrade in Indianapolis after its buses experienced
“lower-than-expected distances on one charge” during testing.
Indianapolis Public Transportation Corporation IndyGo announced it reached
an agreement with BYD to get the new infrastructure. BYD will install
wireless charging hardware for the buses, in addition to three wireless
inductive charging pads along bus routes.
During testing, IndyGo realized low temperatures were causing a dramatic
dropoff in predicted range. Justin Stuehrenberg, IndyGo vice president of
capital projects and planning, said:
“We anticipated that vehicle range would depend on temperature, but the
contract requires a 275-mile range at 0 degrees. Our team identified several
options to address the issue and worked closely with BYD to determine the
most feasible resolution. At the same time, we made it clear to the company
they must be accountable to our contract. Numerous test days this spring
resulted in range performance at and above the contractually required 275
miles on a single charge. To date, the best range of any one test was 307
miles on a single charge.”
Many of those tests didn’t approach the required 275 miles, usually ending
somewhere in the low 200-mile range, as the range report from IndyGo
reveals. On one frigid day, range was limited to 152 miles.
BYD’s buses will now periodically charge for 10-20 minutes at the three
wireless locations. IndyGo claims it can be done without interrupting
service, as drivers will take scheduled breaks with no passengers on board
during those times.
This isn’t the only time BYD’s buses have encountered range issues.
Albuquerque opted to “reject and return” 15 BYD electric buses last year.
The buses experienced range, braking, and electrical issues, the Albuquerque
Journal reported. Albuquerque then decided to order diesel buses.
Indianapolis is pushing forward with the wireless charging plan instead.
Stuehrenberg said a bus system in Washington state uses a similar wireless
system that works in any weather, according to an IndyStar report.
IndyGo’s Red Line is aiming to be the nation’s first battery-electric bus
rapid transit route, and it’s set to launch Sept. 1. IndyGo plans to operate
a 100 percent electric bus fleet by 2035.
Electrek’s Take
We’d like to stress that this sort of thing is not a problem for
all-electric buses, but it does seem to be a bit of a problem for BYD. The
Chinese manufacturer has sold many buses to other countries, as well — see
our Latin America electric bus update from earlier today.
We’re hoping the manufacturer can resolve its issues — not due to any sort
of allegiance to that particular company, but because we don’t need more
obstacles to widespread bus adoption, especially in the US. Any repeat of
Albuquerque would be a big setback.
[© electrek.co]
For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
http://evdl.org/archive/
{brucedp.neocities.org}
--
Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
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