Re: [EVDL] Dead accessory battery (was: Shock and Awe - Historic run 9.589 Seconds @ 152 MPH!!!)

[Casey Mynott via EV]

Hey Bill!

I appreciate you commenting! Your knowledge and experience in racing (and
many other ventures) is well known and respected! Yes, Pat Mccue and the
team are running 800 volts (Dual Reinhart controllers and dual AM Racing
motors) and I think (he would have to chime in) that running a DC-DC
converter complicated the setup so they opted for an isolated 16v battery.
The headway pack (16v accessory battery) they made had seen it's day and was
not as healthy as it could have been. They did have a lithium specific
charger for the headway pack.

So, off to the local parts supplier for a regular old heavy 16 volt racing
AGM. Apparently for racing they opt for a 16v battery as due to the heavy
loads and ignition systems. I did not know this and learned helping out in
the pits. Always something new to know! :) The car is drawing about 40 amps
to run all the accessories and pumps. So, it's quite the draw.

The team was being pretty careful to charge the 16 volt battery between runs
and shutting the battery off while sitting in the staging lanes. It just
happened at that point in the day it got lost in the mix. Also, they had not
planned on putting in an AGM so did not bring a 16 volt racing charger. Like
I mentioned in the pits, well, that's racing! :)

The back of the car near the '12v' shut off is an analog style voltage
gauge. So, it's pretty easy to see what the 16v accessory battery is doing
under changing and draw. Also, it's disconnected from the car when not
running.

The team has done an amazing job engineering the vehicle. It's quite
stunning. Like you mention, this event is something we all go through. I
remember with our schools drag truck we had the same problem running a pc680
as our accessory battery and making sure it was topped up after every run.
There's nothing more humbling and rewarding than learning from a lived
experience! :)

Cheers!

Casey

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Re: [EVDL] Dead accessory battery (was: Shock and Awe - Historic run 9.589 Seconds @ 152 MPH!!!)

[Thos True via EV]

Hi Bill,
I have to heartily agree that the dead accessory battery happens to
everyone at one time or another (Murphy dictates how difficult the timing
will be).
I recall that we developed the habit of having at least one back up battery
just for such a situation. We usually had a couple of the Hawker Genesis
batteries on hand for replacements on Father Time's drag bikes, so it
wasn't too inconvenient after the first time.
-Tom True

On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:

> A dead 12 volt accessory battery has happened at one point or another to
> everyone.
>
> We typically run a small DC-to-DC converter to keep the accessory battery
> topped up, just to avoid the dreaded flat accessory battery.
> You absolutely _must_ have a 12 volt accessory battery, but a DC-DC that
> runs whenever the vehicle is "on" increases the reliability a great deal.
> Small expense, but is good insurance against forgetting to charge the 12
> volt, which is easy to forget in the excitement of race day. (Ask me how I
> know. :-) )
>
> We use a Vicor DC-DC converter module (or more than one in parallel) like
> this one:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201199082834
> You might choose a different model, (like a VE-j72-CY) depending on your
> main pack voltage and your wattage needs. You should get a 15 volt output
> and trim it down to ~13.5 volts (read the data sheet). If you get one with
> 12 volt output, it won't charge a 12 volt battery because it really puts
> out exactly 12.0 volts.
>
> I don't know who originally said it but, "To finish first, one must first
> finish."
>
> I'm guessing, but you probably used a portable "12 volt" battery charger
> to recharge your Li-Ion "12 volt" accessory battery. That is likely what
> ruined it. Almost without exception, the open circuit voltage of all
> portable "12 volt battery chargers" is greater than 15 volts, (often as
> high as 17 volts) which is a death sentence for a "12 volt" Li-Ion pack.
> Always measure the open circuit voltage, with a voltmeter, on a battery
> charger before you use it to charge a Li-Ion battery. Any power supply or
> charger that put out over ~14.7 volts open circuit will toast a Li-Ion
> accessory battery. Find one, like a laptop power supply, that puts out the
> _correct_ voltage.
>
> Also, leaving a switch on overnight accidentally will drain the accessory
> battery to zero, which will also result in the demise of a 12 volt Li_ion
> accessory battery. Good to have an LED tail light or dash indicator light
> that lets everyone know that the 12 volts is "on".
>
> Best of luck!
>
> Bill D.
>
> On 6/5/2016 1:20 PM, Casey Mynott via EV wrote:
>
>> Hey all!
>>
>> A historic day for the Shock and Awe racing team from Bothell Washington
>> and
>> the world of drag racing!
>>
>> After sitting in gridlock and sweltering heat on the #1 towards Mission
>> Raceway, I arrived just as the track was doing lunch. All in all it was an
>> amazing day with some serious excitement (a 9.589 second 152 MPH run) and
>> a
>> bit of a turn at the end of the day. During run #2 the 16 volt AGM (which
>> was changed out for a faltering 16v lithium pack of headway cells) ran out
>> just as the team was pulling up to the line. So, yesterday ended in a
>> somber
>> moment of reflection. A good reminder, racing is a tough sport,
>> physically,
>> mentally, emotionally, financially, all of the above!
>>
>> The team is at the track today hoping to get in another run, depending on
>> how that goes possibly a second.
>>
>> For now, enjoy the video! :)
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L53JTDnmj_w
>>
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Casey
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Shock-and-Awe-Historic-run-9-589-Seconds-152-MPH-tp4682360.html
>> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
>> Nabble.com.
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>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
>>
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>


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merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
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[EVDL] Dead accessory battery (was: Shock and Awe - Historic run 9.589 Seconds @ 152 MPH!!!)

[Bill Dube via EV]

A dead 12 volt accessory battery has happened at one point or another to 
everyone.


We typically run a small DC-to-DC converter to keep the accessory 
battery topped up, just to avoid the dreaded flat accessory battery.
You absolutely _must_ have a 12 volt accessory battery, but a DC-DC that 
runs whenever the vehicle is "on" increases the reliability a great 
deal. Small expense, but is good insurance against forgetting to charge 
the 12 volt, which is easy to forget in the excitement of race day. (Ask 
me how I know. :-) )


We use a Vicor DC-DC converter module (or more than one in parallel) 
like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201199082834
You might choose a different model, (like a VE-j72-CY) depending on your 
main pack voltage and your wattage needs. You should get a 15 volt 
output and trim it down to ~13.5 volts (read the data sheet). If you get 
one with 12 volt output, it won't charge a 12 volt battery because it 
really puts out exactly 12.0 volts.


I don't know who originally said it but, "To finish first, one must 
first finish."


I'm guessing, but you probably used a portable "12 volt" battery charger 
to recharge your Li-Ion "12 volt" accessory battery. That is likely what 
ruined it. Almost without exception, the open circuit voltage of all 
portable "12 volt battery chargers" is greater than 15 volts, (often as 
high as 17 volts) which is a death sentence for a "12 volt" Li-Ion pack. 
Always measure the open circuit voltage, with a voltmeter, on a battery 
charger before you use it to charge a Li-Ion battery. Any power supply 
or charger that put out over ~14.7 volts open circuit will toast a 
Li-Ion accessory battery. Find one, like a laptop power supply, that 
puts out the _correct_ voltage.


Also, leaving a switch on overnight accidentally will drain the 
accessory battery to zero, which will also result in the demise of a 12 
volt Li_ion accessory battery. Good to have an LED tail light or dash 
indicator light that lets everyone know that the 12 volts is "on".


Best of luck!

Bill D.

On 6/5/2016 1:20 PM, Casey Mynott via EV wrote:

Hey all!

A historic day for the Shock and Awe racing team from Bothell Washington and
the world of drag racing!

After sitting in gridlock and sweltering heat on the #1 towards Mission
Raceway, I arrived just as the track was doing lunch. All in all it was an
amazing day with some serious excitement (a 9.589 second 152 MPH run) and a
bit of a turn at the end of the day. During run #2 the 16 volt AGM (which
was changed out for a faltering 16v lithium pack of headway cells) ran out
just as the team was pulling up to the line. So, yesterday ended in a somber
moment of reflection. A good reminder, racing is a tough sport, physically,
mentally, emotionally, financially, all of the above!

The team is at the track today hoping to get in another run, depending on
how that goes possibly a second.

For now, enjoy the video! :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L53JTDnmj_w


Cheers!

Casey

--
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http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Shock-and-Awe-Historic-run-9-589-Seconds-152-MPH-tp4682360.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
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