[EVDL] Employer EVSE installations vs. near-future trends

[Chris Tromley via EV]

I've been involved with EVs for almost two decades, but I just used an EVSE
for the first time a couple of weeks ago on my new-to-me i-MiEV.  So please
forgive me if I'm a bit slow on this topic.

See, living on the east coast (Philadelphia suburbs) means living in an
EVSE desert.  Up until recently the only EVs I'd seen were hobbyist cars
that plugged into range and dryer outlets.  Then came the Teslas, which
seem to be more common around here than ICE Mercedes.  But they have 260+
mile range, so I literally have never seen one charging.  Never seen a
Supercharger station.  They charge at home.  I've seen a few Leafs
(Leaves?) and i3s, but only on the road, and certainly no more than five of
each.  My i-MiEV is not only the only one anyone has ever seen around here,
no one has even heard of it.  "An eye-what?!?  Do they sell those in this
country?"

So I find myself rather embarrassingly ill-equipped to advise my employer
about installing EVSE stations.  I can get to work and back OK if I drive
conscientiously, but not during winter.  An EVSE at work would be very
handy.  There are some receptive ears at work and there is a substantial
parking lot expansion coming up, so I convinced them to at least plan for
getting some power out there.  And I, being the closest thing they have to
an expert on EVSE, would get back to them with my recommendations.

So here's my main concern - in this area EVs needing a charge are *really*
rare.  That will certainly change, but I wonder if that change will be
driven largely by acceptance of the soon-to-be-available 200 mile range EVs
we keep hearing about - which will have much less need for at-work EVSE.
Is there going to be a shift toward residential EVSE?

My gut tells me my employer (with a head count of around 300) should lay
power for three EVSE spots and install one, situated so two to four parking
spaces can use it. Add others as/when needed.  These would likely be at the
back of the lot, near an outbuilding that already has power.  Thoughts?

Other finer points - recommendations for commercial-use EVSE?  Pros and
cons of different layouts (serving side-by-side spaces or one in the middle
of two spaces on each side of a parking row)?  Charging rate - what's
really needed?  Indicators on the EVSE to show if charging?  (My i-MiEV
dashboard indicator is very hard to see from outside the car.)  Do any of
these have a network connection to email the EV-driver employees?  What are
the little details of living with EVSE that can be optimized with a little
forethought?

Chris
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Re: [EVDL] Employer EVSE installations vs. near-future trends

[Willie2 via EV]

On 10/11/2015 08:03 AM, Chris Tromley via EV wrote:

So I find myself rather embarrassingly ill-equipped to advise my employer
about installing EVSE stations.  I can get to work and back OK if I drive
conscientiously, but not during winter.  An EVSE at work would be very
handy.  There are some receptive ears at work and there is a substantial
parking lot expansion coming up, so I convinced them to at least plan for
getting some power out there.  And I, being the closest thing they have to
an expert on EVSE, would get back to them with my recommendations.


Am I beating Robert to the punch here?

The really big question is whether your employer will foot the electric 
costs.  If so, a multitude of 120vac connections are likely to be of FAR 
more use than a few commercial EVSEs.  I suggest working up installation 
and operating costs of each.  With a multitude of 120vac connections you 
remove all contention for the charge positions.  And the added range 
will likely suit most everyone; charging at ~1kw will add 3-4 mph.  30+ 
miles for a work shift.


The SOLE advantage of a commercial EVSE is the ability to shift electric 
costs to the user.  Tesla owners FAR prefer RV outlets which can supply 
40 amps vs the typical 30 amps (or less) from a commercial EVSE.  So, if 
your employer is willing to pay for the electricity, I would recommend 
one or two RV panels and MANY 120vac outlets.


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Re: [EVDL] Employer EVSE installations vs. near-future trends

[Peter C. Thompson via EV]

On 10/11/15 6:32 AM, Willie2 via EV wrote:

On 10/11/2015 08:03 AM, Chris Tromley via EV wrote:
So I find myself rather embarrassingly ill-equipped to advise my 
employer
about installing EVSE stations.  I can get to work and back OK if I 
drive

conscientiously, but not during winter.  An EVSE at work would be very
handy.  There are some receptive ears at work and there is a substantial
parking lot expansion coming up, so I convinced them to at least plan 
for
getting some power out there.  And I, being the closest thing they 
have to

an expert on EVSE, would get back to them with my recommendations.


Am I beating Robert to the punch here?

The really big question is whether your employer will foot the 
electric costs.  If so, a multitude of 120vac connections are likely 
to be of FAR more use than a few commercial EVSEs.  I suggest working 
up installation and operating costs of each.  With a multitude of 
120vac connections you remove all contention for the charge 
positions.  And the added range will likely suit most everyone; 
charging at ~1kw will add 3-4 mph.  30+ miles for a work shift.


The SOLE advantage of a commercial EVSE is the ability to shift 
electric costs to the user.  Tesla owners FAR prefer RV outlets which 
can supply 40 amps vs the typical 30 amps (or less) from a commercial 
EVSE.  So, if your employer is willing to pay for the electricity, I 
would recommend one or two RV panels and MANY 120vac outlets.


For what its worth, Qualcomm has put in about 200 120vac connections in 
their various garages (and planning lots more).  There are some L2 
sprinkled about as well. In order to save the A/C, they put these 
connections in areas where there will NEVER be sunshine (a serious 
consideration in San Diego). This means, the EVs can do the slow charge 
during the day, stay cool, and allow the driver to go home with minimal 
A/C usage.


For your situation, if the areas were kept somewhat warm (compared to 
being outside in the wind and snow), that would also reduce the need for 
heavy heater usage (during winter).


Cheers, Peter
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Re: [EVDL] Employer EVSE installations vs. near-future trends

[Mike Nickerson via EV]

My employer has gone the commercial EVSE route.  Mainly for tracking purposes.  
We started with 3 110V outlets for 3-4 conversions and electric motorcycles.

We now have 15-20 electric vehicles with a bunch of Leafs, 4-5 Volts, and 2 
Tesla.

We have 6 Chargepoint EVSE that charge 2 cars at once.  Chargepoint provides 
authorization, tracking and billing.  The chargers are free for 4 hours, then 
$10 per hour after 4 hours.  Obviously, they are trying to encourage half day 
sharing.

We started with 2 EVSE 18 months ago and have been building out as more cars 
arrive.  Adoption is increasing quickly.

This is on a site with 2500-3000 employees.

Mike



On October 11, 2015 7:03:35 AM MDT, Chris Tromley via EV  
wrote:
>I've been involved with EVs for almost two decades, but I just used an
>EVSE
>for the first time a couple of weeks ago on my new-to-me i-MiEV.  So
>please
>forgive me if I'm a bit slow on this topic.
>
>See, living on the east coast (Philadelphia suburbs) means living in an
>EVSE desert.  Up until recently the only EVs I'd seen were hobbyist
>cars
>that plugged into range and dryer outlets.  Then came the Teslas, which
>seem to be more common around here than ICE Mercedes.  But they have
>260+
>mile range, so I literally have never seen one charging.  Never seen a
>Supercharger station.  They charge at home.  I've seen a few Leafs
>(Leaves?) and i3s, but only on the road, and certainly no more than
>five of
>each.  My i-MiEV is not only the only one anyone has ever seen around
>here,
>no one has even heard of it.  "An eye-what?!?  Do they sell those in
>this
>country?"
>
>So I find myself rather embarrassingly ill-equipped to advise my
>employer
>about installing EVSE stations.  I can get to work and back OK if I
>drive
>conscientiously, but not during winter.  An EVSE at work would be very
>handy.  There are some receptive ears at work and there is a
>substantial
>parking lot expansion coming up, so I convinced them to at least plan
>for
>getting some power out there.  And I, being the closest thing they have
>to
>an expert on EVSE, would get back to them with my recommendations.
>
>So here's my main concern - in this area EVs needing a charge are
>*really*
>rare.  That will certainly change, but I wonder if that change will be
>driven largely by acceptance of the soon-to-be-available 200 mile range
>EVs
>we keep hearing about - which will have much less need for at-work
>EVSE.
>Is there going to be a shift toward residential EVSE?
>
>My gut tells me my employer (with a head count of around 300) should
>lay
>power for three EVSE spots and install one, situated so two to four
>parking
>spaces can use it. Add others as/when needed.  These would likely be at
>the
>back of the lot, near an outbuilding that already has power.  Thoughts?
>
>Other finer points - recommendations for commercial-use EVSE?  Pros and
>cons of different layouts (serving side-by-side spaces or one in the
>middle
>of two spaces on each side of a parking row)?  Charging rate - what's
>really needed?  Indicators on the EVSE to show if charging?  (My i-MiEV
>dashboard indicator is very hard to see from outside the car.)  Do any
>of
>these have a network connection to email the EV-driver employees?  What
>are
>the little details of living with EVSE that can be optimized with a
>little
>forethought?
>
>Chris
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Re: [EVDL] Employer EVSE installations vs. near-future trends

[Chris Tromley via EV]

Many thanks to all who responded.  Special mentions go to Bruce, for
research above and beyond, Robert B. for compelling points favoring L1 and
Arnold for the government resources link.  I have some work ahead to get
through all the input, but I should be much better equipped to guide the
decision-making process.

Chris
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Re: [EVDL] Employer EVSE installations vs. near-future trends

[Arnold Offner via EV]

October 13, 2015

Hello EVeryone,

In June 2014, Britta Gross from General Motors  gave the North 
Carolina Pluggable Electrical Vehicle a webex presentation that discussed 
the IRS (Internal Revenue Service) de Minimus rule as it related to free 
electricity in workplace charging at GM. In the 2012 IRS Document, you 
could exclude $ 125 per person per month for "combined commuter highway 
transportation and transit passes".

A recent 2014 copy of the IRS Fringe benefits now is a $ 130 exemption and 
requires the highway commuter vehicle to seat at least 6 people (excluding 
driver), and I do not know whether the IRS has ever been approached by 
companies involved in the DOE Workplace Charging Challenge to get 
clarification on the topic. And as Ms. Gross pointed out, the IRS rules 
have never explicitly mentioned EV - but they do provide examples of the 
de Minimus requirements. 

At our company in Harrisburg, PA we currently have 6 Pluggable Electric 
Vehicles and - are for the moment - providing free electricity via eight 
Level 2, and four Level 1 EV chargers to employees. Once our EV Charge 
Controller components are released for sale in the USA, I will let you all 
know. We have developed a EV charge controller in both off-grid 
(solar-powered 2.7 kW), and on-grid configurations (with power control 
from the 6 A minimum (at 240 Vac) to 32 A, from a 25 kW transformer 
feeding 4 EV cordsets, and a 50 A RV connection for a Tesla S in our fleet 
with an automated industrial control system.)

If anyone would like a copy of the GM presentation, please contact me 
off-line. 

- There has always been an EV in ChEVrolet! - 

Kindest regards,
Arnold Offner
Phoenix Contact
E-Mail: 
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Re: [EVDL] Employer EVSE installations vs. near-future trends

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 13 Oct 2015 at 18:39, Arnold Offner via EV wrote:

> A recent 2014 copy of the IRS Fringe benefits now is a $ 130 exemption and
> requires the highway commuter vehicle to seat at least 6 people (excluding
> driver) ...

WTF?  So only SUVs need apply?  

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Employer EVSE installations vs. near-future trends

[tomw via EV]

/...you could exclude $ 125 per person per month for "combined commuter
highway
transportation and transit passes"./

David, 

Apparently this was enacted years ago to encourage carpooling in vehicles
such as vans, and use of mass transit.

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Re: [EVDL] Employer EVSE installations vs. near-future trends PAY-in to PLUG-in

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

>> ... a multitude of 120vac connections are likely to be of FAR more use
than a few commercial EVSEs.
>>  if your employer is willing to pay for the electricity, I would
recommend one or two RV panels and MANY 120vac outlets.

That is not the best approach.  The besta approach is to say that the
EMPLOYEES are willing to pay the electric cost!  And that is entirely
possible with simple 120v outlets for the following reasons:

1) someone who drives and EV to work *WILL* do it almost every day and
2) If their commute is long, the will want to plugin *every day*
3) So the cost to charge is a constant
4) At electric rates of 114 cents pwer kWh, that works out to $1 per month
per daily commute mile.

So someone that drives 20 miles every day to work by EV will use $20 per
month of electricity.  SO let EV drivers that want to charge at work pay
the MONTHLY rate for their commute and then they get an EV-CHARGING-PLACARD
to hang on their mirror to show they have paid.  No harder to enforce than
handicapped spots.  Additional mitigations that eliminate any employer risk:

1) people who drive less than 10 miles or so to work won't bother plugging
in.  Why hassle with it when they can charge plenty at home for their dail
use
2) Cheaters would have to park in a spot and be plugged in over 5 hours to
steal just m$1 worth of electricity
3) If they cheat, the other EV drivers who are paying will very soon turn
them in so as not to destroy a nice system

And lastly, EMPLOYEES do NOT WANT an EVSE since it forces them to have to
go play musical cars every hour in the parking lot to share it.  A true
NEGATIVE in the eyes of EV drivers.

see http://aprs.org/EV-charging-everywhere.html

Yes, ONE EVSE might be handy for road-warriers that have to use their cars
all day long and share from place to place.  But that is NOT the majority
of 9-5 commuters.

Bob, WB4APR
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