[EVDL] How I learned to stop worrying and love autonomous-driving & wireless-charging

[brucedp5 via EV]

IMO ...

Since lately I have so much time on my hands (waiting in hospital waiting
rooms to be seen), and the newswires with less EV and more h2 items than in
the past, it makes me think of the strengths and weaknesses of each vehicle,
but boiled down to a non-technical level (what the common person feels who
has not-a-clue of all the technical pros and cons of either).

We have all seen how the automakers are touting the semi-autonomous modes
the new vehicles now have (self parking, sleep alert, etc.), like it is
preview to what I have occasionally posted of the vehicles having full
autonomous abilities:

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Renault-Hints-at-2016-Autonomous-Leaf-EV-tp4668014.html
EVLN: Renault Hints at 2016 Autonomous Leaf EV
Feb 18, 2014

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/05/the-87-billion-robot-car-industrial-complex/371242/
The $87 Billion Robot-Car Market
Self-driving cars might be almost 10 percent of the automotive market in a
decade and a half.
May 20 2014

Some evdl members have posted their dislike/disdain for an autonomous
driving mode, like it is the end of driving as we know it. However, there
could be a benefit that would help sell plugins.

Lets also look (simplistically) at how energy is put back in either a plugin
or a h2 fcv. Currently both require a human. The fcv needs a human to
connect the high pressure hose that would pump the chemical-energy into the
fcv. And one of the ways to recharge a plugin is to have a human plug-in the
electrical connection to transfer the power back into the pack.

But a plugin can also have the option to use wireless/inductive recharging.
>From what I recall, this has developed to a 5kw level for both home and
public use:

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/USU-5kW-90-efficient-10-inch-air-gap-wireless-power-transfer-td354.html
USU 5kW 90% efficient 10-inch air gap wireless power transfer
Jul 13, 2011
 ...
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=6342812&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D6342812

The 5kw level-2 charging would be good enough to recharge 100 mile EVs that
charge during the shorter time window off-peak hours utilities offer a
discount on.

I foresee EVs getting to a point to where the driver could get out, the
plugin would park itself, and do its own wireless recharging at the assigned
time (all automatic, the driver does not have to think).

fcvs do not have this non-human/hands-free option. Thus, this would be a
selling point for higher end plugins (it does it all be itself, I do not
have-to-remember to plug-it-in, etc.).

While a few automakers have thrown against EVs by backing fcvs (with $upport
from Oil companies that would chemical-fuel them), fcvs have no hands-free
refueling solution.

Chock one up for plugins over fcvs ...


{brucedp.150m.com}



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Re: [EVDL] How I learned to stop worrying and love autonomous-driving & wireless-charging

[Chris Tromley via EV]

Actually I can see developing an automatic hands-free H2 fueling apparatus.
 It wouldn't be simple, requiring multiple sensors and fail-safes, but it
could be done.  Not sure it makes sense if FCV range allows a once-a-week
fill-up at the neighborhood station.

I'm wondering if your between-the-lines reading of the newswires is more
pertinent.  For whatever reason, some manufacturers are highly resistant to
climbing on the EV bandwagon.  (The fact that their EVs are pretty good in
spite of their reluctance says something about the ease of EV development.)
 Talking up FCVs is a way to tell another story.  And to sell more ICEs in
the meantime.

Chris


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 5:16 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

>
>
> IMO ...
>
> Since lately I have so much time on my hands (waiting in hospital waiting
> rooms to be seen), and the newswires with less EV and more h2 items than in
> the past, it makes me think of the strengths and weaknesses of each
> vehicle,
> but boiled down to a non-technical level (what the common person feels who
> has not-a-clue of all the technical pros and cons of either).
>
> We have all seen how the automakers are touting the semi-autonomous modes
> the new vehicles now have (self parking, sleep alert, etc.), like it is
> preview to what I have occasionally posted of the vehicles having full
> autonomous abilities:
>
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Renault-Hints-at-2016-Autonomous-Leaf-EV-tp4668014.html
> EVLN: Renault Hints at 2016 Autonomous Leaf EV
> Feb 18, 2014
>
>
> http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/05/the-87-billion-robot-car-industrial-complex/371242/
> The $87 Billion Robot-Car Market
> Self-driving cars might be almost 10 percent of the automotive market in a
> decade and a half.
> May 20 2014
>
> Some evdl members have posted their dislike/disdain for an autonomous
> driving mode, like it is the end of driving as we know it. However, there
> could be a benefit that would help sell plugins.
>
> Lets also look (simplistically) at how energy is put back in either a
> plugin
> or a h2 fcv. Currently both require a human. The fcv needs a human to
> connect the high pressure hose that would pump the chemical-energy into the
> fcv. And one of the ways to recharge a plugin is to have a human plug-in
> the
> electrical connection to transfer the power back into the pack.
>
> But a plugin can also have the option to use wireless/inductive recharging.
> From what I recall, this has developed to a 5kw level for both home and
> public use:
>
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/USU-5kW-90-efficient-10-inch-air-gap-wireless-power-transfer-td354.html
> USU 5kW 90% efficient 10-inch air gap wireless power transfer
> Jul 13, 2011
>  ...
>
> http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=6342812&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D6342812
>
> The 5kw level-2 charging would be good enough to recharge 100 mile EVs that
> charge during the shorter time window off-peak hours utilities offer a
> discount on.
>
> I foresee EVs getting to a point to where the driver could get out, the
> plugin would park itself, and do its own wireless recharging at the
> assigned
> time (all automatic, the driver does not have to think).
>
> fcvs do not have this non-human/hands-free option. Thus, this would be a
> selling point for higher end plugins (it does it all be itself, I do not
> have-to-remember to plug-it-in, etc.).
>
> While a few automakers have thrown against EVs by backing fcvs (with
> $upport
> from Oil companies that would chemical-fuel them), fcvs have no hands-free
> refueling solution.
>
> Chock one up for plugins over fcvs ...
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/How-I-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-autonomous-driving-wireless-charging-tp4669573.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] How I learned to stop worrying and love autonomous-driving & wireless-charging

[Peri Hartman via EV]

I think they (Toyota in particular) is afraid they cannot sell enough BEVs
to meet the mandates (personally, I doubt that).  Probably they perceive
customers wanting something with more-or-less equivalent range and fueling
times as ICE vehicles.  So, losses or not, they are moving in that
direction.

Whether this ends up mainstream is yet to be seen.  On a large scale, they
need to make profit and I don't see that happening for FCEVs unless
something drastic changes in the technology.

Peri

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Chris Tromley via
EV
Sent: 21 May, 2014 4:19 AM
To: brucedp5; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How I learned to stop worrying and love
autonomous-driving & wireless-charging

Actually I can see developing an automatic hands-free H2 fueling apparatus.
 It wouldn't be simple, requiring multiple sensors and fail-safes, but it
could be done.  Not sure it makes sense if FCV range allows a once-a-week
fill-up at the neighborhood station.

I'm wondering if your between-the-lines reading of the newswires is more
pertinent.  For whatever reason, some manufacturers are highly resistant to
climbing on the EV bandwagon.  (The fact that their EVs are pretty good in
spite of their reluctance says something about the ease of EV development.)
 Talking up FCVs is a way to tell another story.  And to sell more ICEs in
the meantime.

Chris


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 5:16 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

>
>
> IMO ...
>
> Since lately I have so much time on my hands (waiting in hospital waiting
> rooms to be seen), and the newswires with less EV and more h2 items than
in
> the past, it makes me think of the strengths and weaknesses of each
> vehicle,
> but boiled down to a non-technical level (what the common person feels who
> has not-a-clue of all the technical pros and cons of either).
>
> We have all seen how the automakers are touting the semi-autonomous modes
> the new vehicles now have (self parking, sleep alert, etc.), like it is
> preview to what I have occasionally posted of the vehicles having full
> autonomous abilities:
>
>
>
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Renault-Hi
nts-at-2016-Autonomous-Leaf-EV-tp4668014.html
> EVLN: Renault Hints at 2016 Autonomous Leaf EV
> Feb 18, 2014
>
>
>
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/05/the-87-billion-robot-c
ar-industrial-complex/371242/
> The $87 Billion Robot-Car Market
> Self-driving cars might be almost 10 percent of the automotive market in a
> decade and a half.
> May 20 2014
>
> Some evdl members have posted their dislike/disdain for an autonomous
> driving mode, like it is the end of driving as we know it. However, there
> could be a benefit that would help sell plugins.
>
> Lets also look (simplistically) at how energy is put back in either a
> plugin
> or a h2 fcv. Currently both require a human. The fcv needs a human to
> connect the high pressure hose that would pump the chemical-energy into
the
> fcv. And one of the ways to recharge a plugin is to have a human plug-in
> the
> electrical connection to transfer the power back into the pack.
>
> But a plugin can also have the option to use wireless/inductive
recharging.
> From what I recall, this has developed to a 5kw level for both home and
> public use:
>
>
>
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/USU-5kW-90-effi
cient-10-inch-air-gap-wireless-power-transfer-td354.html
> USU 5kW 90% efficient 10-inch air gap wireless power transfer
> Jul 13, 2011
>  ...
>
>
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=6342812&url=http%3A%2F
%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D6342812
>
> The 5kw level-2 charging would be good enough to recharge 100 mile EVs
that
> charge during the shorter time window off-peak hours utilities offer a
> discount on.
>
> I foresee EVs getting to a point to where the driver could get out, the
> plugin would park itself, and do its own wireless recharging at the
> assigned
> time (all automatic, the driver does not have to think).
>
> fcvs do not have this non-human/hands-free option. Thus, this would be a
> selling point for higher end plugins (it does it all be itself, I do not
> have-to-remember to plug-it-in, etc.).
>
> While a few automakers have thrown against EVs by backing fcvs (with
> $upport
> from Oil companies that would chemical-fuel them), fcvs have no hands-free
> refueling solution.
>
> Chock one up for plugins over fcvs ...
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
>
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/How-I-learned-t
o-stop-worrying-and-love-autonomous-driving-wireless-charging-tp4

Re: [EVDL] How I learned to stop worrying and love autonomous-driving & wireless-charging

[Martin WINLOW via EV]

Folks can rail against autonomous vehicles (AVs) all they want but come 2050 
most vehicles on the road will be AVs.  This doesn't mean that those of us who 
enjoy going for a blast won't be able to but for everyone else who just wants 
to get from A to B safely, efficiently (in both time and resources) and be able 
to use the traveling time for doing something other than getting tired and 
fractious having to concentrate on driving, it'll be a Godsend.

As for H2 FCVs -for anything but a very small section of the market, it is a 
totally unworkable and completely insane idea - but Big Oil and their political 
allies will still try to force it down our throats.  The UK government are 
still committed to spending millions on it.  Hopefully the advances in and 
take-up of EVs will seal FCVs fate before they ever get off the ground.  You 
can read about HMG's plans for FCVs (and other Ultra Low Emission Vehicles EVs 
etc) here... 
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/307019/ulev-2015-2020.pdf

MW


On 21 May 2014, at 10:16, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

> 
> 
> IMO ...
> 
> Since lately I have so much time on my hands (waiting in hospital waiting
> rooms to be seen), and the newswires with less EV and more h2 items than in
> the past, it makes me think of the strengths and weaknesses of each vehicle,
> but boiled down to a non-technical level (what the common person feels who
> has not-a-clue of all the technical pros and cons of either).
> 
> We have all seen how the automakers are touting the semi-autonomous modes
> the new vehicles now have (self parking, sleep alert, etc.), like it is
> preview to what I have occasionally posted of the vehicles having full
> autonomous abilities:
> 
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Renault-Hints-at-2016-Autonomous-Leaf-EV-tp4668014.html
> EVLN: Renault Hints at 2016 Autonomous Leaf EV
> Feb 18, 2014
> 
> http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/05/the-87-billion-robot-car-industrial-complex/371242/
> The $87 Billion Robot-Car Market
> Self-driving cars might be almost 10 percent of the automotive market in a
> decade and a half.
> May 20 2014
> 
> Some evdl members have posted their dislike/disdain for an autonomous
> driving mode, like it is the end of driving as we know it. However, there
> could be a benefit that would help sell plugins.
> 
> Lets also look (simplistically) at how energy is put back in either a plugin
> or a h2 fcv. Currently both require a human. The fcv needs a human to
> connect the high pressure hose that would pump the chemical-energy into the
> fcv. And one of the ways to recharge a plugin is to have a human plug-in the
> electrical connection to transfer the power back into the pack.
> 
> But a plugin can also have the option to use wireless/inductive recharging.
> From what I recall, this has developed to a 5kw level for both home and
> public use:
> 
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/USU-5kW-90-efficient-10-inch-air-gap-wireless-power-transfer-td354.html
> USU 5kW 90% efficient 10-inch air gap wireless power transfer
> Jul 13, 2011
> ...
> http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=6342812&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D6342812
> 
> The 5kw level-2 charging would be good enough to recharge 100 mile EVs that
> charge during the shorter time window off-peak hours utilities offer a
> discount on.
> 
> I foresee EVs getting to a point to where the driver could get out, the
> plugin would park itself, and do its own wireless recharging at the assigned
> time (all automatic, the driver does not have to think).
> 
> fcvs do not have this non-human/hands-free option. Thus, this would be a
> selling point for higher end plugins (it does it all be itself, I do not
> have-to-remember to plug-it-in, etc.).
> 
> While a few automakers have thrown against EVs by backing fcvs (with $upport
> from Oil companies that would chemical-fuel them), fcvs have no hands-free
> refueling solution.
> 
> Chock one up for plugins over fcvs ...
> 
> 
> {brucedp.150m.com}
> 

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Re: [EVDL] How I learned to stop worrying and love autonomous-driving & wireless-charging

[Jan Steinman via EV]

> From: Martin WINLOW via EV 
> 
> Folks can rail against autonomous vehicles (AVs) all they want but come 2050 
> most vehicles on the road will be AVs.

Yes! They'll be able to get a drunken -- or even asleep -- person home from the 
pub with no intervention!

They will be run on 100% solar power, which they will harvest themselves. The 
major by-product will be a highly uniform organic fertilizer.

But it's been done before, and will be done again, possibly sooner than 2050. 
It's called the "horse cart."

Reminds me of another list I was on, and the technophiles were out in full 
force.

"In the future," they said, "seawater will be desalinized by nuclear fusion, 
and transported thousands of kilometres by solar power, where it will be 
automatically applied to crops"

"It's been done before," someone answered, "It's called 'rain.'"

 Survival and prosperity both hinge on how much sunlight energy is under 
your control. -- Thom Hartmann
 Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op 

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Re: [EVDL] How I learned to stop worrying and love autonomous-driving & wireless-charging

[Cal Frye via EV]

Jan, I think there are possibilities you've not considered.

I don't think I could teach a horse to manage a comprehensive pub crawl,
but Google makes it easy!
I, for one, welcome our benevolent overlords from Mountain View...

- Cal Frye

> Jan Steinman via EV 
> May 22, 2014 5:04 PM
>
> Yes! They'll be able to get a drunken -- or even asleep -- person home
> from the pub with no intervention!
>
> They will be run on 100% solar power, which they will harvest
> themselves. The major by-product will be a highly uniform organic
> fertilizer.
>
> But it's been done before, and will be done again, possibly sooner
> than 2050. It's called the "horse cart."
>
> Reminds me of another list I was on, and the technophiles were out in
> full force.
>
> "In the future," they said, "seawater will be desalinized by nuclear
> fusion, and transported thousands of kilometres by solar power, where
> it will be automatically applied to crops"
>
> "It's been done before," someone answered, "It's called 'rain.'"
>
>  Survival and prosperity both hinge on how much sunlight energy is
> under your control. -- Thom Hartmann
>  Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op 
>
> ___
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> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
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Re: [EVDL] How I learned to stop worrying and love autonomous-driving & wireless-charging

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

On May 22, 2014, at 1:34 AM, Martin WINLOW via EV  wrote:

> As for H2 FCVs -for anything but a very small section of the market, it is a 
> totally unworkable and completely insane idea - but Big Oil and their 
> political allies will still try to force it down our throats.

I'd be really interested to hear where you've seen "Big Oil" ever trying to 
"force [FCEVs] down our throats." Last I heard, except for Shell, they mainly 
see them as a threat to their business.
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Re: [EVDL] How I learned to stop worrying and love autonomous-driving & wireless-charging

[Dennis Miles via EV]

I have lived in many cities around the this world from New York to Tokyo
and they all had autonomous vehicles for the drunkards and transients
unfamiliar with their city.  We called them TAXIs.  I drove a taxi for
three years, and you just had to tell me where you wanted to go and I
picked the best and shortest route, always driving safely and smoothly like
a limousine.  I responded instantly to voice commands, and often passengers
would fall asleep in my cab confident in my driving skills.

*Dennis Lee Miles *

*Director   **E.V.T.I. Inc.*

*E-Mail:*  *evprofes...@evprofessor.com* 

   *Phone #* *(863) 944-9913*

Dade City, Florida 33523

 USA




On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Cal Frye via EV  wrote:

> Jan, I think there are possibilities you've not considered.
>
> I don't think I could teach a horse to manage a comprehensive pub crawl,
> but Google makes it easy!
> I, for one, welcome our benevolent overlords from Mountain View...
>
> - Cal Frye
>
> > Jan Steinman via EV 
> > May 22, 2014 5:04 PM
> >
> > Yes! They'll be able to get a drunken -- or even asleep -- person home
> > from the pub with no intervention!
> >
> > They will be run on 100% solar power, which they will harvest
> > themselves. The major by-product will be a highly uniform organic
> > fertilizer.
> >
> > But it's been done before, and will be done again, possibly sooner
> > than 2050. It's called the "horse cart."
> >
> > Reminds me of another list I was on, and the technophiles were out in
> > full force.
> >
> > "In the future," they said, "seawater will be desalinized by nuclear
> > fusion, and transported thousands of kilometres by solar power, where
> > it will be automatically applied to crops"
> >
> > "It's been done before," someone answered, "It's called 'rain.'"
> >
> >  Survival and prosperity both hinge on how much sunlight energy is
> > under your control. -- Thom Hartmann
> >  Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op 
> >
> > ___
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
> > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> >
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Re: [EVDL] How I learned to stop worrying and love autonomous-driving & wireless-charging

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 22 May 2014 at 18:37, Dennis Miles via EV wrote:

> I have lived in many cities around the this world from New York to Tokyo
> and they all had autonomous vehicles for the drunkards and transients
> unfamiliar with their city.  We called them TAXIs.

Interesting that you mention Tokyo.  I think (but haven't dug up 
corroboration because I'm lazy ;-) that it was in Japan that one of the 
defining trends of our time emerged.  That trend is an increasing desire 
among consumers to get the products they want WITHOUT interacting with sales 
and service people. 

For years, Japan has had vending machines offering beer and sake, fried 
chicken, crepes, ice cream, fresh bananas and lettuce, eggs, rice, and 
bread.  Vending machines there even dispense underwear for women, and 
neckties for men.  There are also some fairly icky machine-vended products 
for men, but I think I'll stop here.

Japanese, I would argue, are the world's most enthusiastic users of 
anonymous, non-interactive purchasing.

But they're not alone; the trend has gone worldwide.  Self-service filling 
stations have been around so long that most younger EVDLers probably don't 
even remember full service filling stations. (Some European stations are 
partly or totally unstaffed.)   Redbox has replaced the corner video rental 
store.  Touchscreen ordering and payment is taking over at some fast food 
eateries, including hundreds of McDonalds restaurants in Europe.  
Supermarkets and big-box stores have self service checkouts.  

The upshot is that we have an entire generation of kids growing up for whom 
anonymous, non-interactive purchasing will be the norm.  If they don't 
particularly care to buy from human cashiers, why would they want to ride 
with human taxi drivers?

Meanwhile, I know women who now are afraid to take a taxicab because they've 
heard or read stories of women being attacked in cabs.  They'd go for self-
driving taxis in a second.  

Maybe the whole idea of self-driving cars strikes some folks as over-the-
top.  Maybe it is.  And yet I don't think EV developers can ignore them.  If 
it turns out that self-driving cars are really what people want, and if 
they're willing to pay the price for the convenience, monetarily and perhaps 
in privacy, then we'd be foolish not to plan for self-driving cars with 
electric drive.  

If nothing else, it's one way to ease range anxiety.  If the car knows the 
way to the train station, it can also tell you whether it has enough charge 
to get there and back, no?  And if not, it can take you to the nearest 
public charging station, where it can ingest just enough electricity to 
accomplish your mission.

David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/


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Re: [EVDL] How I learned to stop worrying and love autonomous-driving & wireless-charging

[Dennis Miles via EV]

Interesting comments David, The Japanese are a very polite people in public
and the vending machines allow anonymity when a personal product is needed
such a change of underwear, as well as a conveniently  purchased snack in
an off hour.  The gasoline service station is self-service in Ohio, but in
Oregon and New Jersey you dare not touch the pump ! Fire safety laws
prohibit self service.  As for the Taxi, and safety, in many regions
(Including mine - Florida,) the taxi drivers have to have a "Hack Drivers
License" and that is issued by the local police after a criminal background
check along with a regular drivers license. I tell all my acquaintances
that are uncomfortable going home at night, "Call a Taxi, the driver is
responsible for your safety and his reputation has been verified by the
city court. You can't find a more validated safe escort home at any time
day or night." And the driver is in constant contact with the dispatcher (I
had a problem one night and told my dispatcher, five taxi drivers came to
my rescue within three minutes, and 45 minutes later the police arrived to
take the problem , a sourly drunk, off to jail on a drunk and disorderly
charge.)  Will a computer driven car do that?? NO !  I trust the Taxi
drivers, not "Robot-cars" who have only been safely allowed to drive on
test tracks or lightly traveled roadways. I have seen remotely controlled
locomotives in the railway yards sorting out cars and the rail-worker's
unions say they are unsafe even under human monitoring...so they are
limited to walking speed. Those systems are not subject to cross traffic
because they are on rails. How complex if they had to be steered and avoid
collisions with cross traffic at 50 miles per hour.  ;^)

*Dennis Lee Miles *

*Director   **E.V.T.I. Inc.*

*E-Mail:*  *evprofes...@evprofessor.com* 

   *Phone #* *(863) 944-9913*

Dade City, Florida 33523

 USA




On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:31 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV <
ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> On 22 May 2014 at 18:37, Dennis Miles via EV wrote:
>
> > I have lived in many cities around the this world from New York to Tokyo
> > and they all had autonomous vehicles for the drunkards and transients
> > unfamiliar with their city.  We called them TAXIs.
>
> Interesting that you mention Tokyo.  I think (but haven't dug up
> corroboration because I'm lazy ;-) that it was in Japan that one of the
> defining trends of our time emerged.  That trend is an increasing desire
> among consumers to get the products they want WITHOUT interacting with
> sales
> and service people.
>
> For years, Japan has had vending machines offering beer and sake, fried
> chicken, crepes, ice cream, fresh bananas and lettuce, eggs, rice, and
> bread.  Vending machines there even dispense underwear for women, and
> neckties for men.  There are also some fairly icky machine-vended products
> for men, but I think I'll stop here.
>
> Japanese, I would argue, are the world's most enthusiastic users of
> anonymous, non-interactive purchasing.
>
> But they're not alone; the trend has gone worldwide.  Self-service filling
> stations have been around so long that most younger EVDLers probably don't
> even remember full service filling stations. (Some European stations are
> partly or totally unstaffed.)   Redbox has replaced the corner video rental
> store.  Touchscreen ordering and payment is taking over at some fast food
> eateries, including hundreds of McDonalds restaurants in Europe.
> Supermarkets and big-box stores have self service checkouts.
>
> The upshot is that we have an entire generation of kids growing up for whom
> anonymous, non-interactive purchasing will be the norm.  If they don't
> particularly care to buy from human cashiers, why would they want to ride
> with human taxi drivers?
>
> Meanwhile, I know women who now are afraid to take a taxicab because
> they've
> heard or read stories of women being attacked in cabs.  They'd go for self-
> driving taxis in a second.
>
> Maybe the whole idea of self-driving cars strikes some folks as over-the-
> top.  Maybe it is.  And yet I don't think EV developers can ignore them.
>  If
> it turns out that self-driving cars are really what people want, and if
> they're willing to pay the price for the convenience, monetarily and
> perhaps
> in privacy, then we'd be foolish not to plan for self-driving cars with
> electric drive.
>
> If nothing else, it's one way to ease range anxiety.  If the car knows the
> way to the train station, it can also tell you whether it has enough charge
> to get there and back, no?  And if not, it can take you to the nearest
> public charging station, where it can ingest just enough electricity to
> accomplish your mission.
>
> David Roden
> EVDL Administrator
> http://www.evdl.org/
>
>
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> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://gr

Re: [EVDL] How I learned to stop worrying and love autonomous-driving & wireless-charging

[Cor van de Water via EV]

I see a Google self-driving car going about its business from time to
time in this area and they *are* capable of dealing with all sorts of
traffic - busy rush-hour freeways, city centers and parking lots with
not just other cars but also peds, pets, bicyclists and a bunch of other
traffic/obstacles.
One of the first times I read a report from a self-driving car was after
they completed an around-the-world trip including driving through China
and India. On a few specific locations they had to adapt the original
designed routines, such as the tendency of the car to follow the rules
of the road, while for example Indian drivers have a tendency to drive
with the white (or yellow) line under the vehicle, so they can swerve
into either lane and/or pass other vehicles or obstacles easily. The
early version of the Google self-driving car which tried to follow the
rules of the road (like I did initially) as often ad a disadvantage and
did not properly anticipate this behavior, which puts you at a serious
disadvantage and/or manouvre in a way that other drivers do not expect
and in some cases it would mean getting stuck because everyone is trying
to go even when it is not allowed, so you need to follow the custom and
show the same "aggressive" driving behavior of ever nudging further into
a constant-flowing stream of traffic on a main street until it is
completely blocked, then you can go from the side street.

I understand that one of the biggest things in the self-driving car is
not the use of sensors or implementation of basic traffic rules, but the
"tweaking" of the implementation of rules to deal with the human
interaction at situations where traffic rules are ambiguous or not
properly followed to allow better traffic flow...

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Miles
via EV
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 10:30 PM
To: EVDL Administrator; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How I learned to stop worrying and love
autonomous-driving & wireless-charging

Interesting comments David, The Japanese are a very polite people in
public
and the vending machines allow anonymity when a personal product is
needed
such a change of underwear, as well as a conveniently  purchased snack
in
an off hour.  The gasoline service station is self-service in Ohio, but
in
Oregon and New Jersey you dare not touch the pump ! Fire safety laws
prohibit self service.  As for the Taxi, and safety, in many regions
(Including mine - Florida,) the taxi drivers have to have a "Hack
Drivers
License" and that is issued by the local police after a criminal
background
check along with a regular drivers license. I tell all my acquaintances
that are uncomfortable going home at night, "Call a Taxi, the driver is
responsible for your safety and his reputation has been verified by the
city court. You can't find a more validated safe escort home at any time
day or night." And the driver is in constant contact with the dispatcher
(I
had a problem one night and told my dispatcher, five taxi drivers came
to
my rescue within three minutes, and 45 minutes later the police arrived
to
take the problem , a sourly drunk, off to jail on a drunk and disorderly
charge.)  Will a computer driven car do that?? NO !  I trust the Taxi
drivers, not "Robot-cars" who have only been safely allowed to drive on
test tracks or lightly traveled roadways. I have seen remotely
controlled
locomotives in the railway yards sorting out cars and the rail-worker's
unions say they are unsafe even under human monitoring...so they are
limited to walking speed. Those systems are not subject to cross traffic
because they are on rails. How complex if they had to be steered and
avoid
collisions with cross traffic at 50 miles per hour.  ;^)

*Dennis Lee Miles *

*Director   **E.V.T.I. Inc.*

*E-Mail:*  *evprofes...@evprofessor.com* 

   *Phone #* *(863) 944-9913*

Dade City, Florida 33523

 USA




On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:31 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV <
ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> On 22 May 2014 at 18:37, Dennis Miles via EV wrote:
>
> > I have lived in many cities around the this world from New York to
Tokyo
> > and they all had autonomous vehicles for the drunkards and
transients
> > unfamiliar with their city.  We called them TAXIs.
>
> Interesting that you mention Tokyo.  I think (but haven't dug up
> corroboration because I'm lazy ;-) that it was in Japan that one of
the
> defining trends of our time emerged.  That trend is an increasing
desire
> among consumers to get the products they want WITHOUT interacting with
> sales
> and service people.
>
> For years, Japan has had vending machines offe

Re: [EVDL] How I learned to stop worrying and love autonomous-driving & wireless-charging

[Jan Steinman via EV]

> From: Dennis Miles via EV 
> 
> I have lived in many cities around the this world from New York to Tokyo
> and they all had autonomous vehicles for the drunkards and transients
> unfamiliar with their city.

Yes, they have such things for world leaders, too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhqKoqqS0XI

Jan Steinman
EcoReality Co-op, http://www.EcoReality.org
2152 Fulford-Ganges Road
Salt Spring Island, BC V8K 1Z7 CANADA
+1 250.653.2024

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