Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[David Rees via EV]

On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Ben Goren via EV  wrote:
> So...if the insurance company winds up totaling the car, as we suspect they 
> might...can anybody suggest an inexpensive EV suited to a retired couple?
>
> It would need to be freeway-capable with a reliable won't strand-them 50-ish 
> mile range in a Phoenix summer with modest air conditioning usage.

I see that some have recommended LEAFs, but I personally would have a
hard time recommending one for Phoenix if you need 50 miles of range
on the freeway in the heat and expect to keep that range for years to
come.

Phoenix was the epicenter of rapid capacity loss for the 2011-2012
LEAF, after two years owners could not make it 50 miles per charge.
Now, if you lose enough capacity Nissan will install a new supposedly
heat-tolerant battery (or you can buy one for about $6k installed if
no longer under warranty) that should survive Arizona heat better, but
no-one is really sure how long even the heat-tolerant "lizard" pack
will last there.

After 4 years in southern California my '11 LEAF with 2 capacity bars
lost will do just about 50 miles on the freeway with light air
conditioning usage from 100% to the first low-battery warning at which
point there's about 12 miles of range left.

In my opinion, all the affordable EVs are risky investments for
someone on a limited budget who need a reliable 50 miles of range.
They might consider a used plug-in hybrid, like a Volt, whose battery
appears to be holding up much better in the heat. But they are also
priced more than the LEAF on the used market.

-Dave
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Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[Ben Goren via EV]

On May 10, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Danpatgal via EV  wrote:

> Low mile 2012 iMiev's are listed anywhere from $7.5 to $10k.

I planted the bug after I drove them back from the airport last night. We'll 
see what, if anything it develops into...but I'm pretty sure it's now on their 
short list...and I don't think they had anything at all on their short list 
until now.

Thanks again!

b&
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Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[Ben Goren via EV]

Very interesting...there's a 2012 w/ 15k miles listed not far from here for 
just under $9k; Leafs look like they tend to be at least half again as much. 
Something like that belongs on a short list.

Thanks!

b&

On May 10, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Danpatgal via EV  wrote:

> Our iMiev has served us really well, and is much easier to get in and out of
> than a Leaf, which is probably a consideration for older people.  Some
> people can't get past the looks, but once you get in and drive it, you
> appreciate the spartan (easy) interface, visibility (as compared to the
> Leaf), space inside, ease of parking, and good capability.  And, used prices
> are now quite low because a lot of the lease deals made back in 2013 are
> coming due.  Low mile 2012 iMiev's are listed anywhere from $7.5 to $10k. 
> If you want to go for a new one, some people have found some amazing deals
> (one guy under $10k) after the federal and state tax credits - though
> finding new might be a little harder as Mitsubishi hasn't shipped a lot of
> 2014 or 2016 models.
> 
> (Incidentally, I don't know of any "teething pains" on the iMiev; ther's
> been only minor recall work since we had it, I'm not aware of any heat
> related issues on the battery pack and I've heard of only a couple pack
> failures in the US.)
> 
> You can see several people on the www.myimiev.com/forum/ has a lot of
> information including several threads on buying a used iMiev.  
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Dan Gallagher
> http://www.evalbum.com/3854
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Inexpensive-retiree-friendly-EV-tp4675387p4675448.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[Paul Dove via EV]

I love mine as well. 

I let a friend drive who was trying to find a Leaf, two weeks later he drove up 
in an i-MiEV.


Sent from my iPhone

> On May 10, 2015, at 11:42 AM, Danpatgal via EV  wrote:
> 
> Our iMiev has served us really well, and is much easier to get in and out of
> than a Leaf, which is probably a consideration for older people.  Some
> people can't get past the looks, but once you get in and drive it, you
> appreciate the spartan (easy) interface, visibility (as compared to the
> Leaf), space inside, ease of parking, and good capability.  And, used prices
> are now quite low because a lot of the lease deals made back in 2013 are
> coming due.  Low mile 2012 iMiev's are listed anywhere from $7.5 to $10k. 
> If you want to go for a new one, some people have found some amazing deals
> (one guy under $10k) after the federal and state tax credits - though
> finding new might be a little harder as Mitsubishi hasn't shipped a lot of
> 2014 or 2016 models.
> 
> (Incidentally, I don't know of any "teething pains" on the iMiev; ther's
> been only minor recall work since we had it, I'm not aware of any heat
> related issues on the battery pack and I've heard of only a couple pack
> failures in the US.)
> 
> You can see several people on the www.myimiev.com/forum/ has a lot of
> information including several threads on buying a used iMiev.  
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Dan Gallagher
> http://www.evalbum.com/3854
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Inexpensive-retiree-friendly-EV-tp4675387p4675448.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[Danpatgal via EV]

Our iMiev has served us really well, and is much easier to get in and out of
than a Leaf, which is probably a consideration for older people.  Some
people can't get past the looks, but once you get in and drive it, you
appreciate the spartan (easy) interface, visibility (as compared to the
Leaf), space inside, ease of parking, and good capability.  And, used prices
are now quite low because a lot of the lease deals made back in 2013 are
coming due.  Low mile 2012 iMiev's are listed anywhere from $7.5 to $10k. 
If you want to go for a new one, some people have found some amazing deals
(one guy under $10k) after the federal and state tax credits - though
finding new might be a little harder as Mitsubishi hasn't shipped a lot of
2014 or 2016 models.

(Incidentally, I don't know of any "teething pains" on the iMiev; ther's
been only minor recall work since we had it, I'm not aware of any heat
related issues on the battery pack and I've heard of only a couple pack
failures in the US.)

You can see several people on the www.myimiev.com/forum/ has a lot of
information including several threads on buying a used iMiev.  

Good luck!

Dan



-
Dan Gallagher
http://www.evalbum.com/3854

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Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[tomw via EV]

Thanks for the links.  Nice to have them copied to one place so I can send
them to someone interested in a Leaf.



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Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[Jamie K via EV]

Here are some links regarding LEAF batteries, warranties and replacement:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1081362_nissan-leaf-battery-capacity-loss-covered-by-warranty-now

http://insideevs.com/nissan-makes-good-on-battery-warranty-plesge-for-2011-2012-leaf-owners-software-update/

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13192

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=19667&sid=08d58c219e5cba01e8d472a7289935c4

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168#p374490

Cheers,
 -Jamie



On 5/6/15 4:06 PM, Willie2 via EV wrote:

On 05/06/2015 05:00 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote:

...and possibly as well advice on what to avoid...I seem to remember
Leafs up to a certain year died quick deaths in the heat...? b&

I think that was the first year (2011?).  The year I had.  I don't
begrudge Nissan not getting their battery sorted out before selling
cars.  I do begrudge them refusing to fix the bad batteries.  Even
though they are supposedly fixed now, I will never buy another Nissan.
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Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[Mr23 via EV]

The Leafs seem to be the most reliable as a population, at least I 
haven't run across information to the contrary yet, while the i3, e-Golf 
and 500e have some teething pains, the FFE has SSN events.
Is there any website with data on reliability for all/most of the 
electrics ?


On 5/6/2015 5:00 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote:

On May 6, 2015, at 2:51 PM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:


I don't follow your reasoning.  There are reasons not to like a lease but the 
fixed income aspect is not usually one of them.  In fact, often it's the 
opposite: people on fixed incomes like leases because they are predictable and 
the payments are (usually) lower than loan-to-buy payments.

Sorry...I realize I left out a detail obvious enough to me I didn't think to 
include it...they won't be getting a loan, no matter the vehicle; it'll be 
cash, with the largest share coming from the (presumed) insurance settlement, 
and, if need be (and it likely would) supplemented from savings from either or 
both them and me.


A quick search for a Leaf in my area (Seattle) shows several used ones for sale 
ranging from $11K and up.

That's likely the sort of thing we'd wind up looking at.

I guess what I'm asking from the list...is advice on which models are most 
likely to be good values as used vehicles given all the other considerations -- 
hot climate, ~50 mile range, freeway capable, reliable, etc.

...and possibly as well advice on what to avoid...I seem to remember Leafs up 
to a certain year died quick deaths in the heat...?

b&
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[EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

The Chevy Spark was on lease for 134 a month and Zero down.  Hard to beat.  
Late in life it might be better to lease unless you are going to drive a lot of 
miles.  The buy back is somewhat low so it might be a good long term investment 
in wheels but the Nissan Leaf might have the best deal as a replacement pack is 
5500 dollars.  There was also a 99 dollar lease on the Fiat 500.  Lawrence 
Rhodes..
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Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[Willie2 via EV]

On 05/06/2015 05:03 PM, Al Lumas via EV wrote:

Chevy just lowered the price of their "Spark" EV.
I thought the Spark was a compliance car.  Not available in Arizona.  Am 
I wrong?  I haven't seen any availability in Texas.


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Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[Willie2 via EV]

On 05/06/2015 05:00 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote:
...and possibly as well advice on what to avoid...I seem to remember 
Leafs up to a certain year died quick deaths in the heat...? b&
I think that was the first year (2011?).  The year I had.  I don't 
begrudge Nissan not getting their battery sorted out before selling 
cars.  I do begrudge them refusing to fix the bad batteries.  Even 
though they are supposedly fixed now, I will never buy another Nissan.

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Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[Al Lumas via EV]

Chevy just lowered the price of their "Spark" EV.
Al

At 01:50 PM 5/6/2015, Ben Goren via EV wrote:
So, my parents are okay. But, apparently, their '89 Lincoln Town car 
might not be...somebody pulled out of a driveway in front of them 
faster than could be avoided...resulting in smoke coming from the 
engine compartment and suspected possible frame damage.
So...if the insurance company winds up totaling the car, as we 
suspect they might...can anybody suggest an inexpensive EV suited to 
a retired couple?
It would need to be freeway-capable with a reliable won't 
strand-them 50-ish mile range in a Phoenix summer with modest air 
conditioning usage.
The biggest potential problem would be budget...they're on a fixed 
income. They have some, but not much, money they can supplement an 
insurance settlement with, and I can probably pitch in a few 
pennies. I'm hoping the used market is mature enough that there 
might be something worthwhile there.



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Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[Ben Goren via EV]

On May 6, 2015, at 2:51 PM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:

> I don't follow your reasoning.  There are reasons not to like a lease but the 
> fixed income aspect is not usually one of them.  In fact, often it's the 
> opposite: people on fixed incomes like leases because they are predictable 
> and the payments are (usually) lower than loan-to-buy payments.

Sorry...I realize I left out a detail obvious enough to me I didn't think to 
include it...they won't be getting a loan, no matter the vehicle; it'll be 
cash, with the largest share coming from the (presumed) insurance settlement, 
and, if need be (and it likely would) supplemented from savings from either or 
both them and me.

> A quick search for a Leaf in my area (Seattle) shows several used ones for 
> sale ranging from $11K and up.

That's likely the sort of thing we'd wind up looking at.

I guess what I'm asking from the list...is advice on which models are most 
likely to be good values as used vehicles given all the other considerations -- 
hot climate, ~50 mile range, freeway capable, reliable, etc.

...and possibly as well advice on what to avoid...I seem to remember Leafs up 
to a certain year died quick deaths in the heat...?

b&
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Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[Peri Hartman via EV]

I don't follow your reasoning.  There are reasons not to like a lease 
but the fixed income aspect is not usually one of them.  In fact, often 
it's the opposite: people on fixed incomes like leases because they are 
predictable and the payments are (usually) lower than loan-to-buy 
payments.


A quick search for a Leaf in my area (Seattle) shows several used ones 
for sale ranging from $11K and up.  "Used" might be an option since your 
parents presumably could not benefit from the tax incentive.  For 
example, buying one for $20K with only 1265 miles on it could be very 
lucrative.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Ben Goren via EV" 
To: "Rick Beebe" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 


Sent: 06-May-15 2:07:53 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

Thanks, but I don't think a lease is likely to be especially desirable. 
It's that "fixed income Social Security" bit...an extra triple digits 
per month would be a disturbingly large fraction of their budget.


That's part of the reason why I think an EV would be ideal, if a 
suitable model is affordable; no more gasoline bills, and much cheaper 
per mile to charge. Once the purchase is made, it'd practically be free 
transportation for them.


b&

On May 6, 2015, at 1:55 PM, Rick Beebe via EV  
wrote:


 Might be worth checking out the lease options. I'm leasing a Smart ED 
for $124/mo with $250 down. A Smart's not the best freeway car but 
it's great around town. I've seen deals on Leafs for under $250/month.


 --Rick

 On 05/06/2015 04:50 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote:
 So, my parents are okay. But, apparently, their '89 Lincoln Town car 
might not be...somebody pulled out of a driveway in front of them 
faster than could be avoided...resulting in smoke coming from the 
engine compartment and suspected possible frame damage.


 So...if the insurance company winds up totaling the car, as we 
suspect they might...can anybody suggest an inexpensive EV suited to 
a retired couple?


 It would need to be freeway-capable with a reliable won't 
strand-them 50-ish mile range in a Phoenix summer with modest air 
conditioning usage.


 The biggest potential problem would be budget...they're on a fixed 
income. They have some, but not much, money they can supplement an 
insurance settlement with, and I can probably pitch in a few pennies. 
I'm hoping the used market is mature enough that there might be 
something worthwhile there.


 Suggestions most appreciated.

 Thanks,

 b&

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Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[Willie2 via EV]

On 05/06/2015 03:50 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote:

So, my parents are okay. But, apparently, their '89 Lincoln Town car might not 
be...somebody pulled out of a driveway in front of them faster than could be 
avoided...resulting in smoke coming from the engine compartment and suspected 
possible frame damage.

If they've been driving a Lincoln, they might not take to an imev. I've 
had a Tesla for two years and an imiev for 5 months.  I much prefer to 
drive the imev where the range allows.  In the winter here in Texas, the 
imiev range was about 50 miles without using the heater.  The heated 
seats serve well enough.  In current temperatures, 50-80, the range is 
more than 60.  Haven't yet used the air conditioning.


The imiev was $26k including TTL.  Income tax credit is $7.5k and Texas 
has a $2.5k state rebate.  So, $16k.

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Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[Ben Goren via EV]

Thanks, but I don't think a lease is likely to be especially desirable. It's 
that "fixed income Social Security" bit...an extra triple digits per month 
would be a disturbingly large fraction of their budget.

That's part of the reason why I think an EV would be ideal, if a suitable model 
is affordable; no more gasoline bills, and much cheaper per mile to charge. 
Once the purchase is made, it'd practically be free transportation for them.

b&

On May 6, 2015, at 1:55 PM, Rick Beebe via EV  wrote:

> Might be worth checking out the lease options. I'm leasing a Smart ED for 
> $124/mo with $250 down. A Smart's not the best freeway car but it's great 
> around town. I've seen deals on Leafs for under $250/month.
> 
> --Rick
> 
> On 05/06/2015 04:50 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote:
>> So, my parents are okay. But, apparently, their '89 Lincoln Town car might 
>> not be...somebody pulled out of a driveway in front of them faster than 
>> could be avoided...resulting in smoke coming from the engine compartment and 
>> suspected possible frame damage.
>> 
>> So...if the insurance company winds up totaling the car, as we suspect they 
>> might...can anybody suggest an inexpensive EV suited to a retired couple?
>> 
>> It would need to be freeway-capable with a reliable won't strand-them 50-ish 
>> mile range in a Phoenix summer with modest air conditioning usage.
>> 
>> The biggest potential problem would be budget...they're on a fixed income. 
>> They have some, but not much, money they can supplement an insurance 
>> settlement with, and I can probably pitch in a few pennies. I'm hoping the 
>> used market is mature enough that there might be something worthwhile there.
>> 
>> Suggestions most appreciated.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> b&
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Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Might be worth checking out the lease options. I'm leasing a Smart ED 
for $124/mo with $250 down. A Smart's not the best freeway car but it's 
great around town. I've seen deals on Leafs for under $250/month.


--Rick

On 05/06/2015 04:50 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote:

So, my parents are okay. But, apparently, their '89 Lincoln Town car might not 
be...somebody pulled out of a driveway in front of them faster than could be 
avoided...resulting in smoke coming from the engine compartment and suspected 
possible frame damage.

So...if the insurance company winds up totaling the car, as we suspect they 
might...can anybody suggest an inexpensive EV suited to a retired couple?

It would need to be freeway-capable with a reliable won't strand-them 50-ish 
mile range in a Phoenix summer with modest air conditioning usage.

The biggest potential problem would be budget...they're on a fixed income. They 
have some, but not much, money they can supplement an insurance settlement 
with, and I can probably pitch in a few pennies. I'm hoping the used market is 
mature enough that there might be something worthwhile there.

Suggestions most appreciated.

Thanks,

b&

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[EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[Ben Goren via EV]

So, my parents are okay. But, apparently, their '89 Lincoln Town car might not 
be...somebody pulled out of a driveway in front of them faster than could be 
avoided...resulting in smoke coming from the engine compartment and suspected 
possible frame damage.

So...if the insurance company winds up totaling the car, as we suspect they 
might...can anybody suggest an inexpensive EV suited to a retired couple?

It would need to be freeway-capable with a reliable won't strand-them 50-ish 
mile range in a Phoenix summer with modest air conditioning usage.

The biggest potential problem would be budget...they're on a fixed income. They 
have some, but not much, money they can supplement an insurance settlement 
with, and I can probably pitch in a few pennies. I'm hoping the used market is 
mature enough that there might be something worthwhile there.

Suggestions most appreciated.

Thanks,

b&
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