Re: [EVDL] Leaf Voltage
On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 6:48 PM, Michael Ross michael.e.r...@gmail.com wrote: Where were you able to learn these xVolts = y%SOC? I logged them from my LEAF using a CAN bus reader (both LeafDD and Leaf Spy). -Dave ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Leaf Voltage
On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 7:02 PM, Paul Dove dov...@bellsouth.net wrote: Electrolyte breakdown occurs over 4.17 volts I couldn't tell you exactly when electrolyte breakdown occurs on the LEAF cells, but I can pretty much guarantee that it will vary depending on things like temperature, voltage and the exact electrolyte chemistry. I would love to know where 4.17V comes from, exactly. -Dave ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Leaf Voltage
A word of warning then - a scientific paper may not represent what is actually manufactured, particularly if much time has elapsed. A year or two out of date I might worry. There is more to it than only the positive electrode chemistry. Electrolyte chemistry, construction details and so on. On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 8:42 AM, Paul Dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: 4.17 comes from a Scientific paper. I am not home right now to attach a copy but when I get back Thursday I will Sent from my iPhone On Apr 21, 2015, at 4:23 AM, Michael Ross michael.e.r...@gmail.com wrote: I think really knowing this about Li ion cells is critical. Anecdotal is not good enough, being wrong about the electrode chemistry is to be wrong about critical information. Knowing how to avoid 100% SOC is critical. A perfectly fine pack can be misused and its life ruined. On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 3:28 AM, David Rees via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 7:02 PM, Paul Dove dov...@bellsouth.net wrote: Electrolyte breakdown occurs over 4.17 volts I couldn't tell you exactly when electrolyte breakdown occurs on the LEAF cells, but I can pretty much guarantee that it will vary depending on things like temperature, voltage and the exact electrolyte chemistry. I would love to know where 4.17V comes from, exactly. -Dave ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. Warren Buffet Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150421/f7aaac61/attachment.html ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150421/aa1b7dd3/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Leaf Voltage
4.17 comes from a Scientific paper. I am not home right now to attach a copy but when I get back Thursday I will Sent from my iPhone On Apr 21, 2015, at 4:23 AM, Michael Ross michael.e.r...@gmail.com wrote: I think really knowing this about Li ion cells is critical. Anecdotal is not good enough, being wrong about the electrode chemistry is to be wrong about critical information. Knowing how to avoid 100% SOC is critical. A perfectly fine pack can be misused and its life ruined. On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 3:28 AM, David Rees via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 7:02 PM, Paul Dove dov...@bellsouth.net wrote: Electrolyte breakdown occurs over 4.17 volts I couldn't tell you exactly when electrolyte breakdown occurs on the LEAF cells, but I can pretty much guarantee that it will vary depending on things like temperature, voltage and the exact electrolyte chemistry. I would love to know where 4.17V comes from, exactly. -Dave ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. Warren Buffet Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150421/f7aaac61/attachment.html ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Leaf Voltage
I think really knowing this about Li ion cells is critical. Anecdotal is not good enough, being wrong about the electrode chemistry is to be wrong about critical information. Knowing how to avoid 100% SOC is critical. A perfectly fine pack can be misused and its life ruined. On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 3:28 AM, David Rees via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 7:02 PM, Paul Dove dov...@bellsouth.net wrote: Electrolyte breakdown occurs over 4.17 volts I couldn't tell you exactly when electrolyte breakdown occurs on the LEAF cells, but I can pretty much guarantee that it will vary depending on things like temperature, voltage and the exact electrolyte chemistry. I would love to know where 4.17V comes from, exactly. -Dave ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150421/961a83ce/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Leaf Voltage
-David, Where were you able to learn these xVolts = y%SOC? I think you are very right about the max voltage, I don't what numbers are right for a given version of any cell, but I am certain that 0.2V too high can really mess things up. On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 9:42 PM, David Rees via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 1:16 PM, via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I’m finally getting the new pack together and it’s made up of Leaf cells. What voltage range should these cells have? I want to be conservative and make this new pack last a very long time. The LEAF charges them up to 4.10V on a 100% charge. You might see 4.12V maximum on a few cells, especially on the 2013+ LEAFs compared to the 2011-2012 LEAFs which seem to charge to a slightly lower voltage. The LEAF BMS will report this charge to be 95-96% or so. An 80% charge will charge the cells to around 4.02V. 50% charge is around 3.90V. You get the first low battery warning around 3.75V and the second warning around 3.68V. The car opens up the contactors around 3.30V, but you can probably take it down to 3.0V or so if you do it very gently. Some others have mentioned charging up to 4.2V, but I think that's too high since Nissan doesn't get close to that. -Dave ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150420/b67e4ca2/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Leaf Voltage
On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 1:16 PM, via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I’m finally getting the new pack together and it’s made up of Leaf cells. What voltage range should these cells have? I want to be conservative and make this new pack last a very long time. The LEAF charges them up to 4.10V on a 100% charge. You might see 4.12V maximum on a few cells, especially on the 2013+ LEAFs compared to the 2011-2012 LEAFs which seem to charge to a slightly lower voltage. The LEAF BMS will report this charge to be 95-96% or so. An 80% charge will charge the cells to around 4.02V. 50% charge is around 3.90V. You get the first low battery warning around 3.75V and the second warning around 3.68V. The car opens up the contactors around 3.30V, but you can probably take it down to 3.0V or so if you do it very gently. Some others have mentioned charging up to 4.2V, but I think that's too high since Nissan doesn't get close to that. -Dave ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Leaf Voltage
Electrolyte breakdown occurs over 4.17 volts Sent from my iPhone On Apr 20, 2015, at 8:42 PM, David Rees via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 1:16 PM, via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I’m finally getting the new pack together and it’s made up of Leaf cells. What voltage range should these cells have? I want to be conservative and make this new pack last a very long time. The LEAF charges them up to 4.10V on a 100% charge. You might see 4.12V maximum on a few cells, especially on the 2013+ LEAFs compared to the 2011-2012 LEAFs which seem to charge to a slightly lower voltage. The LEAF BMS will report this charge to be 95-96% or so. An 80% charge will charge the cells to around 4.02V. 50% charge is around 3.90V. You get the first low battery warning around 3.75V and the second warning around 3.68V. The car opens up the contactors around 3.30V, but you can probably take it down to 3.0V or so if you do it very gently. Some others have mentioned charging up to 4.2V, but I think that's too high since Nissan doesn't get close to that. -Dave ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Leaf Voltage
I’m finally getting the new pack together and it’s made up of Leaf cells. What voltage range should these cells have? I want to be conservative and make this new pack last a very long time. Bruce ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Leaf Voltage
Yes, we do. This answers your question, but just to be complete I will give one of the first Google results that discusses the Leaf battery chemistry: http://livingleaf.info/2011/12/ev-battery-technology-differences/ Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.comPrivate: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130 Tel: +1 408 383 7626Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 -Original Message- From: EV on behalf of Michael Ross via EV Sent: Sun 4/19/2015 6:11 PM To: Jay Summet; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Leaf Voltage I am curious, do we know the electrode composition for Leaf cells? On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 5:27 PM, Jay Summet via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Absolute max 4.2 volts per cell. (Note that a leaf module is made up of 4 cells (2parallel, 2 series) so 8.4 volts absolute max per module). If you have a per cell BMS, you'll need two per module (one between negative and the sense screw (center) and one between the sense screw (center) and positive. 4.1 volts per cell is where the Mini-BMS boards start to shunt, and 4.0 per cell would be a nice and conservative ending charge voltage that would leave a little bit of capacity on the table but possibly help extend your life. Jay On 04/19/2015 04:16 PM, via EV wrote: I'm finally getting the new pack together and it's made up of Leaf cells. What voltage range should these cells have? I want to be conservative and make this new pack last a very long time. Bruce ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlU0HbkACgkQSWJjSgPNbM/ZwwCgkAW6u4CnKcOBd9TPokohxbfS dv4An3oaLrHNFF04MgYA+LOe1QkYk9zG =+mkJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150419/a279b3e2/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4268 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150419/fbdafbf8/attachment.bin ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
