Re: OM measure and universe size

2007-11-05 Thread George Levy
Sorry the nice equation formats did not make it past the server. Anyone 
interested in the equations can find them at the associated wiki links.

George

Russell Standish wrote:

On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 12:20:35PM -0700, George Levy wrote:
  

Russel,

We are trying to related the expansion of the universe to decreasing 
measure. You have presented the interesting equation:

H = C + S

Let's try to assign some numbers.
1) Recently an article 
http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn12853-black-holes-may-harbour-their-own-universes.html
 
appeared in New Scientist stating that we may be living inside a black 
hole, with the event horizon being located at the limit of what we can 
observe ie the radius of the current observable universe.
2) Stephen Hawking 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_thermodynamics showed that the 
entropy of a black hole is proportional to its surface area.

S_{BH} = \frac{kA}{4l_{\mathrm{P}}^2}

where where k is Boltzmann's constant 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann%27s_constant, and 
l_{\mathrm{P}}=\sqrt{G\hbar / c^3} is the Planck length 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_length.

Thus we can say that a change in the Universe's radius corresponds to a 
change in entropy dS. Therefore, dS/dt is proportional to dA/dt and to 
8PR(dR/dt)  R being the radius of the Universe and P = Pi. Let's assume 
that dR/dt = c
Therefore

dS/dt = (k/4 L^2) 8PRc = 2kPRc/ L^2

Since Hubble constant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble%27s_law is 
71 ± 4 (km http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilometer/s 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second)/Mpc 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaparsec

which gives a size of the Universe 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observable_universe from the Earth to the 
edge of the visible universe. Thus R = 46.5 billion light-years in any 
direction; this is the comoving radius 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radius of the visible universe. (Not the 
same as the age of the Universe because of Relativity considerations)

Now I have trouble relating these facts to your equation H = C + S or 
maybe to the differential version dH = dC + dS. What do you  think? Can 
we push this further?

George




I think that the formula you have above for S_{BH} is the value that
should be taken for the H above. It is the maximum value that entropy
can take for a volume the size of the universe. 

The internal observed entropy S, will of course, be much lower. I
don't have a formula for it off-hand, but it probably involves the
microwave background temperature.

Cheers


  



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Re: OM measure and universe size

2007-11-05 Thread Russell Standish

'twas perfectly readable to me, since it was bog-standard LaTeX
notation which is a defacto standard for mathematical notation in
email.

Until someone figures out a way of getting all email clients to read
and write mathML (which will probably be never), this is as good as it
gets.

Cheers

On Mon, Nov 05, 2007 at 03:34:52PM -0800, George Levy wrote:
 Sorry the nice equation formats did not make it past the server. Anyone 
 interested in the equations can find them at the associated wiki links.
 
 George
 
 Russell Standish wrote:
 
 On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 12:20:35PM -0700, George Levy wrote:
   
 
 Russel,
 
 We are trying to related the expansion of the universe to decreasing 
 measure. You have presented the interesting equation:
 
 H = C + S
 
 Let's try to assign some numbers.
 1) Recently an article 
 http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn12853-black-holes-may-harbour-their-own-universes.html
  
 appeared in New Scientist stating that we may be living inside a black 
 hole, with the event horizon being located at the limit of what we can 
 observe ie the radius of the current observable universe.
 2) Stephen Hawking 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_thermodynamics showed that the 
 entropy of a black hole is proportional to its surface area.
 
 S_{BH} = \frac{kA}{4l_{\mathrm{P}}^2}
 
 where where k is Boltzmann's constant 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann%27s_constant, and 
 l_{\mathrm{P}}=\sqrt{G\hbar / c^3} is the Planck length 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_length.
 
 Thus we can say that a change in the Universe's radius corresponds to a 
 change in entropy dS. Therefore, dS/dt is proportional to dA/dt and to 
 8PR(dR/dt)  R being the radius of the Universe and P = Pi. Let's assume 
 that dR/dt = c
 Therefore
 
 dS/dt = (k/4 L^2) 8PRc = 2kPRc/ L^2
 
 Since Hubble constant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble%27s_law is 
 71 ± 4 (km http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilometer/s 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second)/Mpc 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaparsec
 
 which gives a size of the Universe 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observable_universe from the Earth to the 
 edge of the visible universe. Thus R = 46.5 billion light-years in any 
 direction; this is the comoving radius 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radius of the visible universe. (Not the 
 same as the age of the Universe because of Relativity considerations)
 
 Now I have trouble relating these facts to your equation H = C + S or 
 maybe to the differential version dH = dC + dS. What do you  think? Can 
 we push this further?
 
 George
 
 
 
 
 I think that the formula you have above for S_{BH} is the value that
 should be taken for the H above. It is the maximum value that entropy
 can take for a volume the size of the universe. 
 
 The internal observed entropy S, will of course, be much lower. I
 don't have a formula for it off-hand, but it probably involves the
 microwave background temperature.
 
 Cheers
 
 
   
 
 
 
  

-- 


A/Prof Russell Standish  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Mathematics  
UNSW SYDNEY 2052 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Australiahttp://www.hpcoders.com.au


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