Re: "We spent a long time trying to convince ourselves this wasn’t real"

[John Clark]

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Telmo Menezes 
wrote:


​> ​
> Those are all good points, but it is not necessary that the Dyson
> ​ ​
> builders are native of the star where they are building a certain
> ​ ​
> sphere, right?
>

​Maybe, but if interstellar travel was common ​
we'd expect to see lots of Dyson spheres instead of (at best) one partially
constructed one.

 John K Clark  ​

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Re: "We spent a long time trying to convince ourselves this wasn’t real"

[Telmo Menezes]

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 1:49 AM, John Clark  wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 spudboy100 via Everything List
>  wrote:
>
>> >
>> What do you feel would be the reaction of our species if magically, it
>> gets determined that it is indeed Dyson builders?
>
>
> It would be a very odd star system for the Evolution of Dyson builders to
> evolve on. The star has 1.43 times the mass of our sun and a star's lifetime
> is inversely proportional to the cube of its mass, so that star's lifetime
> would only be about a third of the sun's. The sun and the Earth are about
> the same age, 4 and a half billion years, and in another half a billion
> years the sun will be too hot for life on Earth. So the sun can provide
> about 5 billion year window for intelligent life to evolve. On Earth it took
> 4 billion years to go from chemicals to worms and another half a billion
> years to go from worms to present day people.
> The star you're talking about would only have a 1.6 billion year window for
> life, and that doesn't seem like enough time
> for Evolution
> to
> turn chemicals into
> Dyson
> builders
> . If you were on the Earth when the sun was
> only
> 1.6 billion years old you'd have to wait another 2.4 billion years to see
> the first worm.
>
> We only have one example to look at so maybe life on Earth evolved unusually
> slowly but I think it much more likely that life on Earth evolved unusually
> rapidly, because Earth not only produced life it produced intelligent life.
> And however common intelligence is in the universe bacteria must be even
> more common.

Those are all good points, but it is not necessary that the Dyson
builders are native of the star where they are building a certain
sphere, right?

Of course it is still much more reasonable to assume that this is just
some unknown natural phenomena, but it is exciting that there is a
small possibility that it is not.

If they do exist, I agree with a point you made some time ago that
they would probably not need anything from us or our planet, and thus
not represent a threat. I guess the only possible reason why such an
advanced civilization could be interested in us would be scientific
curiosity.

Telmo.

>  John K Clark
>
>
>
>
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Re: "We spent a long time trying to convince ourselves this wasn’t real"

[John Clark]

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> ​
> What do you feel would be the reaction of our species if magically, it
> gets determined that it is indeed Dyson builders?
>

​It would be a very odd star system for the Evolution of Dyson builders to
evolve on. The star has 1.43 times the mass of our sun and a star's
lifetime is inversely proportional to the cube of its mass, so that star's
lifetime would only be about a third of the sun's. The sun and the Earth
are about the same age, 4 and a half billion years, and in another half a
billion years the sun will be too hot for life on Earth. So the sun can
provide about 5 billion year window for intelligent life to evolve. On
Earth it took 4 billion years to go from chemicals to worms and another
half a billion years to go from worms to present day people.
The star you're talking about would only have a 1.6 billion year window for
life, and that doesn't seem like enough time
​ for Evolution
to
​ turn chemicals into
Dyson
​builders​
. If you were on the Earth when the sun was
​only ​
1.6 billion years old you'd have to wait another 2.4 billion years to see
the first worm.

We only have one example to look at so maybe life on Earth evolved
unusually slowly but I think it much more likely that life on Earth evolved
unusually rapidly, because Earth not only produced life it produced
intelligent life. ​And however common intelligence is in the universe
bacteria must be even more common.

 John K Clark

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Re: "We spent a long time trying to convince ourselves this wasn’t real"

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

The same, though I believe the old religions would be taking on cosmological 
attributes. 
It might pep up religions rather then dissolve them.
I am guessing that UFO watching would take on a more serious bent, because who 
knows, the neighbors might be watching. Scifi would be revived. I am guessing 
that there would be a gradual re-emphasis in space travel. The tech to do the 
level of dyson engineering would involve extra monies placed on reverse 
engineering what the neighbors are doing. 



-Original Message-
From: Telmo Menezes 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Sun, Aug 7, 2016 5:05 pm
Subject: Re: "We spent a long time trying to convince ourselves this wasn’t 
real"

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 8:45 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List
 wrote:
> What I read yesterday was that the "action" around that star experienced
> inexplicable rapid acceleration. Its probably too good to be true that we
> have another intelligent species within our galaxy. Something will get
> re-evaluated, or star materials will get an explanation that is natural.
>
> What do you feel would be the reaction of our species if magically, it gets
> determined that it is indeed Dyson builders?

That's something I like to think about too.

My optimistic bet is that it would reduce in-fighting. Suddenly our
small differences might appear irrelevant when confronted with the
existence of alien intelligence. Worrying about skin colors might seem
a bit silly given the threat of hyper-intelligent 7 meter tall
spider-like beings :)

Another consequence would be knowing for sure that it is possible to
get to the Dyson sphere civilization level. Maybe that would be
another incentive for more cooperation.

I also suspect organized religion would take a big hit. Of course many
would deny any scientific evidence of the existence of our galactic
neighbors, as they do already with the fossil record, for example.

And you?

Cheers,
Telmo.

>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Telmo Menezes 
> To: everything-list 
> Sent: Sun, Aug 7, 2016 1:14 pm
> Subject: "We spent a long time trying to convince ourselves this wasn’t
> real"
>
> What do you guys think of this?
>
> http://gizmodo.com/the-so-called-alien-megastructure-just-got-even-more-my-1784883811?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook_source=io9_facebook_medium=socialflow
>
> Cheers
> Telmo.
>
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Re: "We spent a long time trying to convince ourselves this wasn’t real"

[Telmo Menezes]

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 8:45 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List
 wrote:
> What I read yesterday was that the "action" around that star experienced
> inexplicable rapid acceleration. Its probably too good to be true that we
> have another intelligent species within our galaxy. Something will get
> re-evaluated, or star materials will get an explanation that is natural.
>
> What do you feel would be the reaction of our species if magically, it gets
> determined that it is indeed Dyson builders?

That's something I like to think about too.

My optimistic bet is that it would reduce in-fighting. Suddenly our
small differences might appear irrelevant when confronted with the
existence of alien intelligence. Worrying about skin colors might seem
a bit silly given the threat of hyper-intelligent 7 meter tall
spider-like beings :)

Another consequence would be knowing for sure that it is possible to
get to the Dyson sphere civilization level. Maybe that would be
another incentive for more cooperation.

I also suspect organized religion would take a big hit. Of course many
would deny any scientific evidence of the existence of our galactic
neighbors, as they do already with the fossil record, for example.

And you?

Cheers,
Telmo.

>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Telmo Menezes 
> To: everything-list 
> Sent: Sun, Aug 7, 2016 1:14 pm
> Subject: "We spent a long time trying to convince ourselves this wasn’t
> real"
>
> What do you guys think of this?
>
> http://gizmodo.com/the-so-called-alien-megastructure-just-got-even-more-my-1784883811?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook_source=io9_facebook_medium=socialflow
>
> Cheers
> Telmo.
>
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Re: "We spent a long time trying to convince ourselves this wasn’t real"

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

What I read yesterday was that the "action" around that star experienced 
inexplicable rapid acceleration. Its probably too good to be true that we have 
another intelligent species within our galaxy. Something will get re-evaluated, 
or star materials will get an explanation that is natural.

What do you feel would be the reaction of our species if magically, it gets 
determined that it is indeed Dyson builders?



-Original Message-
From: Telmo Menezes 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Sun, Aug 7, 2016 1:14 pm
Subject: "We spent a long time trying to convince ourselves this wasn’t real"

What do you guys think of this?

http://gizmodo.com/the-so-called-alien-megastructure-just-got-even-more-my-1784883811?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook_source=io9_facebook_medium=socialflow

Cheers
Telmo.

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"We spent a long time trying to convince ourselves this wasn’t real"

[Telmo Menezes]

What do you guys think of this?

http://gizmodo.com/the-so-called-alien-megastructure-just-got-even-more-my-1784883811?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook_source=io9_facebook_medium=socialflow

Cheers
Telmo.

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