Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
Getting all Schrodinger + Wigner on this topic, what about a an infinite,
(exponentiating-asymptotic) propagation of "observers?" It's just a matter of
catching up always and since its multiples of observers, but non-indexical
Leibniz kind of observers.
You may have just solved the purpose of this universe JC. Observers galore!
Yeah Verily!
Spud-member of The Church of the Poison Mind
-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell
To: Everything List
Sent: Wed, Jul 13, 2022 5:19 pm
Subject: Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
If you think about it the limitations imposed by inflation prevent any observer
from observing an infinite amount of information. The de Sitter manifold of
eternal inflation may be infinite in extent, but eternal inflation may limit
any observer from observing an infinite amount of information. It is sort of
like the event horizon of a black hole, where the horizon prevents certain
violations of thermodynamics or the direct observation of the singularity.
Quantum mechanics also has a similar feature. The uncertainty principle of QM
cuts nature off at a certain scale of of action, so there are not an infinite
number of degrees of freedom with action limit --> 0. In fact the QM
uncertainty limitation and the limitations with spacetime physics are I think a
part of a general principle.
LC
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 7:49:28 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
Thanks Doc! You said it and gave the reasons for it. Which for me means, that
Freeman Dyson's suggestion that the best thing scientists can do to better
understand things is to improve the equipment they use to observe. Telescope
improvement means observations improvement. How can we get to an outside region
of spacetime would appeal only to a sci-fi head as myself, strictly for the
non-professional. Eternal Inflation seems quasi religious as in transcendental,
and we mammals seem not built for this neurologically. Perhaps (again science
fiction) when we someday link to AI, we, as a new species may be grooving on
the Inflationary Eternity, in the Everett/DeWitt/Wheeler wonderfulness of it
all?
My guess is that if this is not an existential disaster for us, it'd be akin to
us forming another brain section. The Machinery would like the emotionalism of
being us, we'd like the braininess of being it. Like peanut butter and
chocolate or chocolate plus peanut butter.
Much thank,
Spud, the gourmand.
-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell
To: Everything List
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2022 6:46 pm
Subject: Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
One of the things about inflationary cosmology we should keep in mind is that
it implies there is a fundamental limit to what we can know. This period from
10^{-35} seconds to 10^{-30} seconds had space expand by 60-efolds or e^{60} ~
10^{26}. Hence, information at that time corresponding to any curvature or
other spacetime data was enormously stretched out. Thus Planck scale data at
10^{-35}, was stretched to 10^{-9}m, which might correspond to coherent state
gravitons. This was in a region about .1 to 1 m in scale. Thus such data if we
can read it is imprinted on the CMB. It might be here! The quantum sources for
this are now over 2 trillion light years away. Sort of for the same reason we
can observe galaxies with z > 1. The CMB is with z = 1100, which means it is
being frame dragged out at 1100 times the speed of light. The source for
gravitons we might indirectly observe in the CMB data have z ~ 10^{60}!
The multiverse, a term I really do not like very well, just means the vacuum
state of the entire universe has a degeneracy or multivalued structure and what
we observe in this universe is one of them. These other cosmogonies for all we
know may just be radiative corrections to the universe we observe. They would
be off-shell conditions, similar to interior graphs in a Feynman diagram. I
think this is mostly likely the case with high energy vacuum conditions on
these other cosmogonies. The problem is that we will have a very difficult time
knowing which of these alternatives is the case. Inflation implies our cosmos
emerged in or from a de Sitter vacuum with a huge cosmological constant. It is
"eternally inflating," which means any data concerning something outside the
observable universe may be extremely difficult or impossible to measure.
LC
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 1:28:59 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
Well said, but I do love the multiverse (at times) for its entertainment
values. I also wonder as a few astronomers and physicists have postulated an
infinite or much larger cosmos? In other words, what might lie for hundreds of
billions or trillions of light years, beyond the Hubble Volume? Axions, virtual
photons, a vast oceans of neutrinos, old deposed black holes, dimensions? One
of the answers the Multiverse provides is simply what maps provided ancient
cartographer
Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
If you think about it the limitations imposed by inflation prevent any
observer from observing an infinite amount of information. The de Sitter
manifold of eternal inflation may be infinite in extent, but eternal
inflation may limit any observer from observing an infinite amount of
information. It is sort of like the event horizon of a black hole, where
the horizon prevents certain violations of thermodynamics or the direct
observation of the singularity. Quantum mechanics also has a similar
feature. The uncertainty principle of QM cuts nature off at a certain scale
of of action, so there are not an infinite number of degrees of freedom
with action limit --> 0. In fact the QM uncertainty limitation and the
limitations with spacetime physics are I think a part of a general
principle.
LC
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 7:49:28 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
> Thanks Doc! You said it and gave the reasons for it. Which for me means,
> that Freeman Dyson's suggestion that the best thing scientists can do to
> better understand things is to improve the equipment they use to observe.
> Telescope improvement means observations improvement. How can we get to an
> outside region of spacetime would appeal only to a sci-fi head as myself,
> strictly for the non-professional. Eternal Inflation seems quasi
> religious as in transcendental, and we mammals seem not built for this
> neurologically. Perhaps (again science fiction) when we someday link to
> AI, we, as a new species may be grooving on the Inflationary Eternity, in
> the Everett/DeWitt/Wheeler wonderfulness of it all?
>
> My guess is that if this is not an existential disaster for us, it'd be
> akin to us forming another brain section. The Machinery would like the
> emotionalism of being us, we'd like the braininess of being it. Like peanut
> butter and chocolate or chocolate plus peanut butter.
>
>
> Much thank,
>
> Spud, the gourmand.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lawrence Crowell
> To: Everything List
> Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2022 6:46 pm
> Subject: Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
>
> One of the things about inflationary cosmology we should keep in mind is
> that it implies there is a fundamental limit to what we can know. This
> period from 10^{-35} seconds to 10^{-30} seconds had space expand by
> 60-efolds or e^{60} ~ 10^{26}. Hence, information at that time
> corresponding to any curvature or other spacetime data was enormously
> stretched out. Thus Planck scale data at 10^{-35}, was stretched to
> 10^{-9}m, which might correspond to coherent state gravitons. This was in a
> region about .1 to 1 m in scale. Thus such data if we can read it is
> imprinted on the CMB. It might be here! The quantum sources for this are
> now over 2 trillion light years away. Sort of for the same reason we can
> observe galaxies with z > 1. The CMB is with z = 1100, which means it is
> being frame dragged out at 1100 times the speed of light. The source for
> gravitons we might indirectly observe in the CMB data have z ~ 10^{60}!
>
> The multiverse, a term I really do not like very well, just means the
> vacuum state of the entire universe has a degeneracy or multivalued
> structure and what we observe in this universe is one of them. These other
> cosmogonies for all we know may just be radiative corrections to the
> universe we observe. They would be off-shell conditions, similar to
> interior graphs in a Feynman diagram. I think this is mostly likely the
> case with high energy vacuum conditions on these other cosmogonies. The
> problem is that we will have a very difficult time knowing which of these
> alternatives is the case. Inflation implies our cosmos emerged in or from a
> de Sitter vacuum with a huge cosmological constant. It is "eternally
> inflating," which means any data concerning something outside the
> observable universe may be extremely difficult or impossible to measure.
>
> LC
>
> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 1:28:59 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Well said, but I do love the multiverse (at times) for its entertainment
> values. I also wonder as a few astronomers and physicists have postulated
> an infinite or much larger cosmos? In other words, what might lie for
> hundreds of billions or trillions of light years, beyond the Hubble Volume?
> Axions, virtual photons, a vast oceans of neutrinos, old deposed black
> holes, dimensions? One of the answers the Multiverse provides is simply
> what maps provided ancient cartographers, "Here be dragons."
>
> Spud, Cartographically speaking...
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lawrence Crowell
> To: Everything List
> Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 5:15 pm
> Subject: Re: Are there
Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
Thanks Doc! You said it and gave the reasons for it. Which for me means, that
Freeman Dyson's suggestion that the best thing scientists can do to better
understand things is to improve the equipment they use to observe. Telescope
improvement means observations improvement. How can we get to an outside region
of spacetime would appeal only to a sci-fi head as myself, strictly for the
non-professional. Eternal Inflation seems quasi religious as in transcendental,
and we mammals seem not built for this neurologically. Perhaps (again science
fiction) when we someday link to AI, we, as a new species may be grooving on
the Inflationary Eternity, in the Everett/DeWitt/Wheeler wonderfulness of it
all?
My guess is that if this is not an existential disaster for us, it'd be akin to
us forming another brain section. The Machinery would like the emotionalism of
being us, we'd like the braininess of being it. Like peanut butter and
chocolate or chocolate plus peanut butter.
Much thank,
Spud, the gourmand.
-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell
To: Everything List
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2022 6:46 pm
Subject: Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
One of the things about inflationary cosmology we should keep in mind is that
it implies there is a fundamental limit to what we can know. This period from
10^{-35} seconds to 10^{-30} seconds had space expand by 60-efolds or e^{60} ~
10^{26}. Hence, information at that time corresponding to any curvature or
other spacetime data was enormously stretched out. Thus Planck scale data at
10^{-35}, was stretched to 10^{-9}m, which might correspond to coherent state
gravitons. This was in a region about .1 to 1 m in scale. Thus such data if we
can read it is imprinted on the CMB. It might be here! The quantum sources for
this are now over 2 trillion light years away. Sort of for the same reason we
can observe galaxies with z > 1. The CMB is with z = 1100, which means it is
being frame dragged out at 1100 times the speed of light. The source for
gravitons we might indirectly observe in the CMB data have z ~ 10^{60}!
The multiverse, a term I really do not like very well, just means the vacuum
state of the entire universe has a degeneracy or multivalued structure and what
we observe in this universe is one of them. These other cosmogonies for all we
know may just be radiative corrections to the universe we observe. They would
be off-shell conditions, similar to interior graphs in a Feynman diagram. I
think this is mostly likely the case with high energy vacuum conditions on
these other cosmogonies. The problem is that we will have a very difficult time
knowing which of these alternatives is the case. Inflation implies our cosmos
emerged in or from a de Sitter vacuum with a huge cosmological constant. It is
"eternally inflating," which means any data concerning something outside the
observable universe may be extremely difficult or impossible to measure.
LC
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 1:28:59 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
Well said, but I do love the multiverse (at times) for its entertainment
values. I also wonder as a few astronomers and physicists have postulated an
infinite or much larger cosmos? In other words, what might lie for hundreds of
billions or trillions of light years, beyond the Hubble Volume? Axions, virtual
photons, a vast oceans of neutrinos, old deposed black holes, dimensions? One
of the answers the Multiverse provides is simply what maps provided ancient
cartographers, "Here be dragons."
Spud, Cartographically speaking...
-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell
To: Everything List
Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 5:15 pm
Subject: Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
I think it is best to think of these as calculational gadgets. To be honest I
am not sure about the ontological status of these 10^{272,000} spacetimes or
cosmogonies.
LC
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 2:58:37 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
Weepers. I am behind the times. Last I remember it was 10^500 universes as
informed by Guth, Linde, Vilenkin, and the rest.
F theory must me when ya hear 10^272K universes, ya yell out F#@CK!!!. Anyone
willing to wager if some of have better shows than Netflix?
-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell
To: Everything List
Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 11:24 am
Subject: Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
This is F-theory I presume.
LC
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 10:09:58 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:
Are there 10^272,000 Universes? - Numberphile
John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
rtu
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Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
One of the things about inflationary cosmology we should keep in mind is
that it implies there is a fundamental limit to what we can know. This
period from 10^{-35} seconds to 10^{-30} seconds had space expand by
60-efolds or e^{60} ~ 10^{26}. Hence, information at that time
corresponding to any curvature or other spacetime data was enormously
stretched out. Thus Planck scale data at 10^{-35}, was stretched to
10^{-9}m, which might correspond to coherent state gravitons. This was in a
region about .1 to 1 m in scale. Thus such data if we can read it is
imprinted on the CMB. It might be here! The quantum sources for this are
now over 2 trillion light years away. Sort of for the same reason we can
observe galaxies with z > 1. The CMB is with z = 1100, which means it is
being frame dragged out at 1100 times the speed of light. The source for
gravitons we might indirectly observe in the CMB data have z ~ 10^{60}!
The multiverse, a term I really do not like very well, just means the
vacuum state of the entire universe has a degeneracy or multivalued
structure and what we observe in this universe is one of them. These other
cosmogonies for all we know may just be radiative corrections to the
universe we observe. They would be off-shell conditions, similar to
interior graphs in a Feynman diagram. I think this is mostly likely the
case with high energy vacuum conditions on these other cosmogonies. The
problem is that we will have a very difficult time knowing which of these
alternatives is the case. Inflation implies our cosmos emerged in or from a
de Sitter vacuum with a huge cosmological constant. It is "eternally
inflating," which means any data concerning something outside the
observable universe may be extremely difficult or impossible to measure.
LC
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 1:28:59 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
> Well said, but I do love the multiverse (at times) for its entertainment
> values. I also wonder as a few astronomers and physicists have postulated
> an infinite or much larger cosmos? In other words, what might lie for
> hundreds of billions or trillions of light years, beyond the Hubble Volume?
> Axions, virtual photons, a vast oceans of neutrinos, old deposed black
> holes, dimensions? One of the answers the Multiverse provides is simply
> what maps provided ancient cartographers, "Here be dragons."
>
> Spud, Cartographically speaking...
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lawrence Crowell
> To: Everything List
> Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 5:15 pm
> Subject: Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
>
> I think it is best to think of these as calculational gadgets. To be
> honest I am not sure about the ontological status of these 10^{272,000}
> spacetimes or cosmogonies.
>
> LC
>
> On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 2:58:37 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Weepers. I am behind the times. Last I remember it was 10^500 universes as
> informed by Guth, Linde, Vilenkin, and the rest.
>
> F theory must me when ya hear 10^272K universes, ya yell out F#@CK!!!.
> Anyone willing to wager if some of have better shows than Netflix?
>
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Lawrence Crowell
> To: Everything List
> Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 11:24 am
> Subject: Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
>
> This is F-theory I presume.
>
> LC
>
> On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 10:09:58 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Are there 10^272,000 Universes? - Numberphile
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_TEoUF12Yk>
>
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at Extropolis
> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
> rtu
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit
>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/07cc79c3-0195-4741-9fc7-930dc9bdb497n%40googlegroups.com
>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/07cc79c3-0195-4741-9fc7-930dc9bdb497n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>
> .
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2ccbc278-4296-4cb5-acb5-cfc92135f2f0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=foot
Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
Well said, but I do love the multiverse (at times) for its entertainment
values. I also wonder as a few astronomers and physicists have postulated an
infinite or much larger cosmos? In other words, what might lie for hundreds of
billions or trillions of light years, beyond the Hubble Volume? Axions, virtual
photons, a vast oceans of neutrinos, old deposed black holes, dimensions? One
of the answers the Multiverse provides is simply what maps provided ancient
cartographers, "Here be dragons."
Spud, Cartographically speaking...
-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell
To: Everything List
Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 5:15 pm
Subject: Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
I think it is best to think of these as calculational gadgets. To be honest I
am not sure about the ontological status of these 10^{272,000} spacetimes or
cosmogonies.
LC
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 2:58:37 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
Weepers. I am behind the times. Last I remember it was 10^500 universes as
informed by Guth, Linde, Vilenkin, and the rest.
F theory must me when ya hear 10^272K universes, ya yell out F#@CK!!!. Anyone
willing to wager if some of have better shows than Netflix?
-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell
To: Everything List
Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 11:24 am
Subject: Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
This is F-theory I presume.
LC
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 10:09:58 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:
Are there 10^272,000 Universes? - Numberphile
John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
rtu
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Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
I think it is best to think of these as calculational gadgets. To be honest
I am not sure about the ontological status of these 10^{272,000} spacetimes
or cosmogonies.
LC
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 2:58:37 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
> Weepers. I am behind the times. Last I remember it was 10^500 universes as
> informed by Guth, Linde, Vilenkin, and the rest.
>
> F theory must me when ya hear 10^272K universes, ya yell out F#@CK!!!.
> Anyone willing to wager if some of have better shows than Netflix?
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lawrence Crowell
> To: Everything List
> Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 11:24 am
> Subject: Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
>
> This is F-theory I presume.
>
> LC
>
> On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 10:09:58 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Are there 10^272,000 Universes? - Numberphile
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_TEoUF12Yk>
>
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at Extropolis
> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
> rtu
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/07cc79c3-0195-4741-9fc7-930dc9bdb497n%40googlegroups.com
>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/07cc79c3-0195-4741-9fc7-930dc9bdb497n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>
> .
>
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Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
Weepers. I am behind the times. Last I remember it was 10^500 universes as informed by Guth, Linde, Vilenkin, and the rest. F theory must me when ya hear 10^272K universes, ya yell out F#@CK!!!. Anyone willing to wager if some of have better shows than Netflix? -Original Message- From: Lawrence Crowell To: Everything List Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 11:24 am Subject: Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes? This is F-theory I presume. LC On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 10:09:58 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote: Are there 10^272,000 Universes? - Numberphile John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis rtu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/07cc79c3-0195-4741-9fc7-930dc9bdb497n%40googlegroups.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2005560226.33747.1657569511909%40mail.yahoo.com.
Re: Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
This is F-theory I presume. LC On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 10:09:58 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote: > Are there 10^272,000 Universes? - Numberphile > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_TEoUF12Yk> > > John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at Extropolis > <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> > rtu > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/07cc79c3-0195-4741-9fc7-930dc9bdb497n%40googlegroups.com.
Are there 10^272,000 Universes?
Are there 10^272,000 Universes? - Numberphile <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_TEoUF12Yk> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at Extropolis <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> rtu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv3kiZ_Q%3DqvpZ9tiaGiXBmO9YO3tgpXVg-nkmnEwmtRMcA%40mail.gmail.com.
