FW: FW: FW: FW: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

[Philip Benjamin]

general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: FW: FW: FW: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life 
Conscious?
[Philip Benjamin] How much more precisely can PHYSICAL be defined? There are 
five fundamental questions pertaining to any observation: what, why, how, when, 
where?  The ultimate meaning of what of anything remains unknown to science or 
philosophy!! What is a photon? Electron? Etc. That is true of why also? Why 
something rather than nothing? Can any science or philosophy tell that? Science 
is about observations. Observations are primarily about when, where, how. The 
ultimate or final 'who' and 'what' are not within the purview of science or any 
finite minds. The questions of aseity and infinite regress have to be settled 
for that.  WAMP-the-Ingrate can only PRETEND to know everything!! They are the 
most dangerous specimens of mankind today. They did not and could not exist 
during the dominance of the sphere of influence of Augustinian or Thomist 
thoughts and experiential facts.
Philip Benjamin

From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online 
mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2022 2:24 PM
To: general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: FW: FW: FW: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life 
Conscious?

But a definition of terms would help enormously.



Supernatural is just parts of Nature 'unexplained'. It is all natural.



And when James Randi tried his best to weed out the deluded, I know from my own 
experience, they exist. But he also weeded out people who were genuine, people 
he regarded as dangerous, because they didn't realise what their powers really 
were, or how they worked and as a consequence were a potential risk. If I can 
bend metal from a distance I can down planes. I become a weapon.



But I was with Bill, our neighbour's border collie, the other night and though 
he looks at me directly eye for eye, with great soulful brown eyes , 
occasionally, he follows heaven knows what around the room.



There are numerous things hovering over me if his eyes are any indicator and, 
just like Muffin, he seems to take orders from entities unseen. It may be dark 
matter or dark energy, but things outside my perception system exist. And 
animals can 'see' [perceive] them - especially border collies.

This realm of other worlds - caused by the fact we seem to be 'interleaved' 
with many other things - each of which may be perceiving things differently, 
simply isn't being taken into account.



Dark matter is matter [let us leave it at that] that humans cannot perceive and 
other animals often can, and these animals offer us a far better opportunity to 
explore it [as long as they are treated with kindness of course] than shooting 
at atoms in very expensive colliders, for all they tell you is that if you 
shoot something valuable enough times, some of the pieces may appear similar, 
but you are simply destroying something precious, without actually realising 
the effects could be catastrophic.



I hope you can see the point I am making. All these Higgs bosoms [joke] and 
leptons and so on are simply the effects of matter we cannot perceive doing 
things. The effects aren't the matter, they are only effects, because we don't 
have the equipment or perception systems to ever realise they are there.



And we never will, unless we use other species to help us, and humans who, by 
some fluke of nature get glimpses of other realms and can report back.



Long again, sorry, but I am genuinely very worried by the approach many 
'scientists' are taking. There is the potential in what you are all doing, to 
produce absolutely catastrophic results and don't seem to realise how dangerous 
what you are doing is.



rosie







-- Original Message --
From: "Philip Benjamin" 
mailto:medinucl...@hotmail.com>>
To: "general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>" 
mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, 10 May, 22 At 19:34
Subject: FW: FW: FW: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?
[Philip Benjamin]
There are many flippant notions of "spirituality" thoughtlessly promoted by 
WAMP-the-Ingrate; but physical, metaphysical, mental, 'spiritual' etc. must be 
reevaluated as ordinary materialism of ordinary light matter with its chemistry 
and extraordinary materialism of extraordinary matter with its chemistry. 
Physical originally meant natural and was used for medicinal lingo of the 
ancient Greeks. The difference between physical and spiritual then in many 
instances become very tenuous.
Philip Benjamin
From: general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>> O

RE: FW: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

[Philip Benjamin]

[Philip benjamin].
"Was" is okay. Abraham "WAS" a pagan. Augustine "WAS" a Greco-Roman- Phoenician 
pagan. Pagan means  Pan-Gaia-n, earth-worshippers, modern environmental 
fanatic. An "unawakened consciousness" is a natural product. "Awakening" has to 
be by an extrinsic source. Athenian Mars Hill discourse (Acts 17) gives the 
clue. Augustinian "transformation" is an example. The historic and historical 
"Two Great Awakenings" in the American Colonies are other examples. In these 
instances Adonai (plural) YHWH (singular) Elohim (uni-plural) was the external 
Source. Those events shaped the Western Civilization. Yoga, TM, Jungian 
sorceries, occultism, Psycho-Therapy etc. also may eventually lead to a 
completely different external source, with a completely different outcome. 
Politicians of all stripes are mostly inclined to the latter pagan techniques.
Philip Benjamin


From: everything-list@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 3:15 PM
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
Subject: Re: FW: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

On Mon, May 9, 2022 at 3:52 PM Philip Benjamin 
mailto:medinucl...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

> Socialist Hitler was a Nordic PAGAN with

Ah, your favorite word yet again. Tell me Phillip, is there anybody or anything 
that was not a PAGAN?

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  
Extropolis<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fg%2Fextropolis&data=05%7C01%7C%7C5256c2ef7b914874a53f08da31f89d1c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637877241101620229%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=fTm4fEJakgTdkG%2BI5YcIRvB8m7Pl8M%2BqiIKYiuQTwLU%3D&reserved=0>
qzz

yzz





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Re: FW: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

[John Clark]

On Mon, May 9, 2022 at 3:52 PM Philip Benjamin 
wrote:

*> Socialist Hitler was a Nordic PAGAN with*
>

Ah, your favorite word yet again. Tell me Phillip, is there anybody or
anything that was not a PAGAN?

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

qzz

yzz





>

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RE: FW: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

[Philip Benjamin]

Socialist Hitler was a Nordic PAGAN with the Aryan Swastika. He was also 
reported to be an astrology fanatic and occultist, probably a Satanist. PAGANS 
have infiltrated everywhere from the Whitehouse to the outhouse, in the pulpits 
and pews, vivil and military, almost entirely the Western academia and media.
Philip Benjamin

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Brent Meeker
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 2:44 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: FW: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?


On 5/9/2022 7:15 AM, Philip Benjamin wrote:
Philip Benjamin  Monday, May 9, 2022 9:13 AM 
'general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>' 
<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

[Philip Benjamin]
As for Wikipedia, there is no contradiction here! As far as chemistry is 
concerned an atom is the smallest unit of matter for any chemical bonds. No 
atom, no chemistry. As for the British Encyclopedia, "without the release of 
electrically charged particles" (i.e. before division into constituent 
fundamental particles) is the keynote. It is high time that the sciences think 
in terms of Dark atoms and their Dark chemistries.
Brilliant Niels Bohr and his ardent followers did not think in terms of 
chemistry. There are physicists who still think of Socialist PAGAN Hitler

Whatever else he was, Hitler was a Christian...of a vengeful variety.

"Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle against the
world enemy -- the Jews. The work that Christ started but did not
finish, I, Adolf Hitler, will conclude."
   --- "The Book of Political Quotes," London: Angus & Robertson
Publishers, 1982, p. 195)

"The party as such represents the point of view of a positive
Christianity without binding itself to any one particular
confession."
  Adolf Hitler, in the Nazi manifesto:

"We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have 
therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not 
merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."
---Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933

"We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity in fact 
our movement is Christian."
---Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Passau, 27 October 1928, Bundesarchiv 
Berlin-Zehlendorf, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall¹s The Holy Reich]

"God gave the savior to the German people. We have faith, deep and unshakeable 
faith, that he was sent to us by God to save Germany."
--- Hermann Goering, speaking of Adolf Hitler

Brent
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Re: FW: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

[Brent Meeker]

On 5/9/2022 7:15 AM, Philip Benjamin wrote:


Philip Benjamin  Monday, May 9, 2022 9:13 AM 
'general_the...@googlegroups.com' 

*Subject:* RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

[*Philip Benjamin*]

As for Wikipedia, there is no contradiction here! As far as chemistry 
is concerned an atom is the smallest unit of matter for any chemical 
bonds. No atom, no chemistry. As for the British Encyclopedia, 
“without the release of electrically charged particles” (i.e. before 
division into constituent fundamental particles) is the keynote. It is 
high time that the sciences think in terms of Dark atoms and their 
Dark chemistries.


Brilliant Niels Bohr and his ardent followers did not think in 
terms of chemistry. There are physicists who still think of Socialist 
PAGAN Hitler




Whatever else he was, Hitler was a Christian...of a vengeful variety.

"Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle against the
world enemy -- the Jews. The work that Christ started but did not
finish, I, Adolf Hitler, will conclude."
   --- "The Book of Political Quotes," London: Angus & Robertson
Publishers, 1982, p. 195)

"The party as such represents the point of view of a positive
Christianity without binding itself to any one particular
confession."
  Adolf Hitler, in the Nazi manifesto:

"We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have 
therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that 
not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."

    ---Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933

"We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity 
in fact our movement is Christian."
    ---Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Passau, 27 October 1928, 
Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf,         [cited from Richard 
Steigmann-Gall¹s The Holy Reich]


"God gave the savior to the German people. We have faith, deep and 
unshakeable faith, that he was sent to us by God to save Germany."

    --- Hermann Goering, speaking of Adolf Hitler

Brent

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FW: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

[Philip Benjamin]

[Philip Benjamin]
  Hi Rosie, They are PHYSICAL matter particles. Chemistry means  PHYSICAL 
chemical bonds which are PHYSICAL duets and octets of PHYSICAL particles 
(electrons). Dark matter is PHYSICAL, gravitationally and optically measurable. 
 Spin is amathematical derivative and PHYSICAL. There is no  PHYSICAL need to 
bring metaphysics or mysticism or occultism or the breaking of basic Laws of 
Logic into any REAL science.
Philip Benjamin
PS. Glad to know that Serge is alive and well in Ukraine, as a real patriotic 
citizen against fascist PAGAN tyranny.
From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online 
mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 9:29 AM
To: general_the...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

so atoms are matter [material] but they are formed from particles.

These particles must have a very fundamental set of functions in order to bond 
- the laws of attraction and repulsion for example - and form an atom. Do they 
literally spin or only figuratively spin?

Are they material or non material ? Atums [with a u, o 'objects' maybe ?]

rosie

-- Original Message --
From: "Philip Benjamin" 
mailto:medinucl...@hotmail.com>>
To: "general_the...@googlegroups.com" 
mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Monday, 9 May, 22 At 15:12
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?
[Philip Benjamin]
As for Wikipedia, there is no contradiction here! As far as chemistry is 
concerned an atom is the smallest unit of matter for any chemical bonds. No 
atom, no chemistry. As for the British Encyclopedia, "without the release of 
electrically charged particles" (i.e. before division into constituent 
fundamental particles) is the keynote. It is high time that the sciences think 
in terms of Dark atoms and their Dark chemistries.
Brilliant Niels Bohr and his ardent followers did not think in terms of 
chemistry. There are physicists who still think of Socialist PAGAN Hitler and 
Marxist PAGAN Stalin and Fascist PAGAN Mussolini or appeaser-occultist PAGAN 
Neville Chamberlain still carrying out their activities in the Many Worlds!! 
Absurdly, they have no need of a Many World chemistry!! There are eminent 
physicists who follow the late brilliant physicist Stephen Hawking in proposing 
"self-creation" of the Universe (Many Worlds?), without being aware of the 
basic logical Law of Noncontradiction" and the basic laws of chemistry.
Philip Benjamin  (Nonconformist to anarchist Marxist pagan globalism of 
WAMP-the-Ingrate)
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

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FW: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

[Philip Benjamin]

Philip Benjamin  Monday, May 9, 2022 9:13 AM 'general_the...@googlegroups.com' 

Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

[Philip Benjamin]
As for Wikipedia, there is no contradiction here! As far as chemistry is 
concerned an atom is the smallest unit of matter for any chemical bonds. No 
atom, no chemistry. As for the British Encyclopedia, "without the release of 
electrically charged particles" (i.e. before division into constituent 
fundamental particles) is the keynote. It is high time that the sciences think 
in terms of Dark atoms and their Dark chemistries.
Brilliant Niels Bohr and his ardent followers did not think in terms of 
chemistry. There are physicists who still think of Socialist PAGAN Hitler and 
Marxist PAGAN Stalin and Fascist PAGAN Mussolini or appeaser-occultist PAGAN 
Neville  Chamberlain still carrying out their activities in the Many Worlds!!  
Absurdly, they have no need of a Many World chemistry!!  There are eminent 
physicists who follow the late brilliant physicist Stephen Hawking in proposing 
"self-creation" of the Universe (Many Worlds?), without being aware of the 
basic logical Law of Noncontradiction" and the basic laws of chemistry.
Philip Benjamin
(Nonconformist to anarchist Marxist pagan globalism of WAMP-the-Ingrate)

From: 'Rosemary   via Consciousness-Online  
general_the...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2022 3:02 PM Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is 
Artificial Life Conscious?

Dear Philip,



Definition from Encyclopaedia Britannica
An atom, is the smallest unit into which matter can be divided without the 
release of electrically charged particles. It is also the smallest unit of 
matter that has the 
characteristic
 properties of a chemical 
element.
 As such, the atom is the basic building block of 
chemistry.



Definition according to Wikipedia
An atom is the smallest unit of ordinary 
matter
 that forms a chemical 
element.
 Every 
solid,
 
liquid,
 
gas

FW: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

[Philip Benjamin]

Saturday, May 7, 2022 3:53 PM 'general_the...@googlegroups.com' 
general_the...@googlegroups.com 
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

[Rosemary Rock Evans]
"And although I do not disagree with your idea of the immortal soul being dark 
energy,  The brain alone does nothing. The emotion is by far the most 
important factor and all of it is metaphysical."
[Philip Benjamin]
   No, I never equated dark energy with soul/spirit, because in all ancient 
languages soul/spirit have their roots in breath/breeze. When the last breath 
was gone, the ancients discerned that life is over. Thus 'life principle' was 
equated with something similar to  wind! If they had any understanding of 
"invisible matter" they might have equated 'life principle' with that--  
"matter" nevertheless.
 Dark matter PARTICLES- not dark energy - as any other matter will have 
chemistries i.e. spin governed particle configurations called chemical bonds. A 
resonant dark twin made of PARTICLES is cocreated at the moment of conception. 
Resonance is rudimentary recognition. That is plausibly the basis of 
self-awareness, if " self" is real and invisible. Self-talk, self-respect etc. 
cannot be dark-energy talk and dark-energy self-respect. None talks to dark 
energy.
Dark energy is an invention to save the Big Bang speculation and the 
mathematics associated with it. Dark-matter was more accurately termed "missing 
matter" by Fritz Zwicky, because there was a real measurable mass difference of 
distant rotating hot bodies calculated optically and gravitationally. Vera 
Rubin confirmed that. Astrophysical hot bodies are composed of H, He and 
perhaps innumerable particles of the corresponding dark-matter. Biosphere 
consists of 92 + ordinary 'light matter' and possibly corresponding 
dark-matter. There is nothing outlandish about that.
Philip Benjamin


From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online 
mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2022 10:19 AM
To: general_the...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

I can understand why the young man who commented , said what he did. There is a 
great emphasis on AI and robotics at the moment in many universities. He 
mentionned neural nets, for example, and these are used for finger print 
recognition in the police.


But it is as if we are trying to make things which are artificial have some 
degree of 'soul' because we want them to be humane - kind. Can we program 
kindness, empathy, self awareness, etc into a machine?


It is very laudible, because whoever is doing this, wants machines to be 
'humane'. It would be wonderful if we could - do not hurt - but machines should 
be under our control, so that they don't hurt, because only things which have a 
soul can be hurt - whether physically or emotionally.



Memory, learning ability - are just functions - that in many ways can be 
replicated - but love, hurt, hate, joy, desire, grief, etc - the emotions? Our 
soul experiences them.



And maybe by this simple statement I have defined what 'life' is and 
consciousness. It is the ability to be hurt and to love and be loved. To 
experience emotions. And I would hope that a convincing enough number of 
youtube videos show that animals do both - and that is why we are all 'animals' 
- we have applied this definition without even thinking about it.



And although I do not disagree with your idea of the immortal soul being dark 
energy, it is the immortal soul that counts as the ultimate test of whether one 
is conscious. A person can have a brain and die of grief or loneliness or fear. 
The brain alone does nothing. The emotion is by far the most important factor 
and all of it is metaphysical.



Self consciousness is, I think, something else. A child and a dog do not really 
experience self consciousness, although they are clearly conscious.



I think we need to start valuing the things that make us [and living things] 
'human', without attempting to replicate them - be 'God'. I may be given a self 
driving car, but only David can point out the beauty of the cloud formations 
and talk about the clarity of the light. A machine does not know beauty.



It is the separation of the 'feminine' emotional, perceptive side from the 
symbolically unemotional, memory driven so called scientific side that has got 
us into the mess we are in - in Ukraine for example.

The 'masculine' has entirely taken over, where personal desires and objectives, 
avoidance of all unfiltered perceptions of reality, and an ability to devise a 
strategy that meets objectives, but loses all sense of humanity, produces 
carnage.

Note that I have named no names, as Mr Putin is probably not the actual one 
doing this. I suspect he is a puppet. I want to know 'who' or 'what' is pulling 
his strings.



best wishes to you

rosie



PS S

FW: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

[Philip Benjamin]

Philip Benjamin Thursday, May 5, 2022 9:19 AM  general_the...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?
Hi, Rosie:
Doesn't that depend on how you define life itself? If life is defined as energy 
then almost everything is energy and life!! Then the question is what is 
energy? Nobody knows. A good beginning will be to define self-consciousness, 
i.e. to be conscious of "self". Then if self is not real, consciousness is also 
unreal and does not belong to the realm of science. If self is real and 
invisible the only candidate for that is bio dark-matter body "twin" cocreated 
with its own chemistry (computational) at the moment of conception, made of 
dark particles of negligible mass with respect to electron. Resonance between 
the twins will be a basis for self-consciousness. Resonance is rudimentary 
recognition.
Philip.
From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online 
mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2022 12:54 PM
To: general_the...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

Dear Philip,



1. To be conscious does something have to have a brain?

2. To be conscious does it have to be capable of reproducing?



rosie



-- Original Message --
From: "Philip Benjamin" 
mailto:medinucl...@hotmail.com>>
To: "general_the...@googlegroups.com" 
mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, 4 May, 22 At 18:43
Subject: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Subject: RE: Is Artificial Life Conscious?
[Philip Benjamin]
The question: "If simple creatures like worms or insects are conscious, 
(because they have brains, and evolved), then wouldn't these artificial life 
forms be conscious for the same reasons? " is irrelevant. Simple creatures 
reproduce. Will robots reproduce? Baby robots? Do they have a desire for and 
grow on the pablum of metal powder and vaseline? Simple creatures 
trans-speciated from what ? Worms evolve into worms? The oldest fossils found 
are algae and bacteria. Still the same type of bacteria and algae today!!
Philip Benjamin
Nonconformist to Marxist-Socialist pagan globalism of the WAMP.
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