Re: Hydrogen to Helium fusion in the VERY early universe.

[Lawrence Crowell]

On Wednesday, November 13, 2019 at 10:45:52 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 13, 2019 at 5:35:51 PM UTC-7, Lawrence Crowell 
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 13, 2019 at 1:14:40 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 13, 2019 at 6:11:46 AM UTC-7, Lawrence Crowell 
>>> wrote:

 On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 3:27:08 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 11:03:14 AM UTC-7, Lawrence Crowell 
> wrote:
>>
>> On Monday, November 11, 2019 at 8:36:35 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm watching a science channel about the BB. It's claimed that in 
>>> the VERY early universe, a few seconds after the BB, it was so HOT that 
>>> Hydrogen was fusing into Helium. BUT ... I thought Hydrogen didn't form 
>>> until around 380,000 years AFTER the BB, when the CMBR formed. What's 
>>> going 
>>> on? TIA, AG
>>>
>>
>> You are thinking of hydrogen atoms. After the first three minutes, 
>> when EW was unified, there was a 20 minute period where temperatures 
>> permitted p + p --> D + e^ + neutrino. These could fuse into He_2^4. A 
>> quarter of all protons fused into alpha nuclei. This was predicted and 
>> supports BB. The temperature of universe was billions to hundreds of 
>> millions K. Interesting that mush fusion happened that quickly. It was 
>> later when temperatures dropped below 10,000K or so that hydrogen and 
>> helium atoms formed.
>>
>> LC
>>
>
> Yes, the documentary referred to "hydrogen", not protons. Does the BB 
> theory explain the existence of protons during the first few seconds or 
> minutes using the quantum foam? AG
>

 Protons emerged from a quark-gluon plasma state after about 3 seconds. 
 This is also around when the EW symmetry broke.

 LC 

>>>
>>> The thrust of my question was about the quantum foam. I note that Bruce 
>>> emphatically denies the existence of the quantum foam. But the emergence of 
>>> particles from the vacuum seems to depend on the existence of the quantum 
>>> foam. So, in your opinion, does the emergence of particles from the vacuum 
>>> depend on the existence of the quantum foam? TIA, AG 
>>>
>>
>> Quantum foam is Planck scale or near Planck scale physics. There are a 
>> number of definitions of quantum foam. Really all it means is that if you 
>> try to isolate a quantum bit or qubit in a very small region, the Planck 
>> length ℓ_p = √Għ/c^3, you find it in a black hole. At this point the 
>> energy of the probe is equal to the mass of a quantum black hole. If you 
>> are not trying to isolate information or matter into such as extremely 
>> small scale spacetime is continuous and smooth all the way to almost 
>> infinitesimally small length.
>>
>> LC 
>>
>
> Then particles hypothetically emerging from dimensions smaller than Planck 
> scale CANNOT emerge, insofar as they're inside a BH. Doesn't this imply, if 
> true, that the very early universe could never have been smaller than 
> Planck scale? AG
>

The Planck scale is a sort of mirror scale, where anything on a 
trans-Planckian scale is not measurable for it is inside quantum black hole 
or the smallest region a qubit can be isolated in. A more sophisticated way 
of looking at this is with asymptotic safe quantum gravity.  

LC

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Re: Hydrogen to Helium fusion in the VERY early universe.

[Alan Grayson]

On Wednesday, November 13, 2019 at 5:35:51 PM UTC-7, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 13, 2019 at 1:14:40 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 13, 2019 at 6:11:46 AM UTC-7, Lawrence Crowell 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 3:27:08 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:



 On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 11:03:14 AM UTC-7, Lawrence Crowell 
 wrote:
>
> On Monday, November 11, 2019 at 8:36:35 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
>>
>> I'm watching a science channel about the BB. It's claimed that in the 
>> VERY early universe, a few seconds after the BB, it was so HOT that 
>> Hydrogen was fusing into Helium. BUT ... I thought Hydrogen didn't form 
>> until around 380,000 years AFTER the BB, when the CMBR formed. What's 
>> going 
>> on? TIA, AG
>>
>
> You are thinking of hydrogen atoms. After the first three minutes, 
> when EW was unified, there was a 20 minute period where temperatures 
> permitted p + p --> D + e^ + neutrino. These could fuse into He_2^4. A 
> quarter of all protons fused into alpha nuclei. This was predicted and 
> supports BB. The temperature of universe was billions to hundreds of 
> millions K. Interesting that mush fusion happened that quickly. It was 
> later when temperatures dropped below 10,000K or so that hydrogen and 
> helium atoms formed.
>
> LC
>

 Yes, the documentary referred to "hydrogen", not protons. Does the BB 
 theory explain the existence of protons during the first few seconds or 
 minutes using the quantum foam? AG

>>>
>>> Protons emerged from a quark-gluon plasma state after about 3 seconds. 
>>> This is also around when the EW symmetry broke.
>>>
>>> LC 
>>>
>>
>> The thrust of my question was about the quantum foam. I note that Bruce 
>> emphatically denies the existence of the quantum foam. But the emergence of 
>> particles from the vacuum seems to depend on the existence of the quantum 
>> foam. So, in your opinion, does the emergence of particles from the vacuum 
>> depend on the existence of the quantum foam? TIA, AG 
>>
>
> Quantum foam is Planck scale or near Planck scale physics. There are a 
> number of definitions of quantum foam. Really all it means is that if you 
> try to isolate a quantum bit or qubit in a very small region, the Planck 
> length ℓ_p = √Għ/c^3, you find it in a black hole. At this point the 
> energy of the probe is equal to the mass of a quantum black hole. If you 
> are not trying to isolate information or matter into such as extremely 
> small scale spacetime is continuous and smooth all the way to almost 
> infinitesimally small length.
>
> LC 
>

Then particles hypothetically emerging from dimensions smaller than Planck 
scale CANNOT emerge, insofar as they're inside a BH. Doesn't this imply, if 
true, that the very early universe could never have been smaller than 
Planck scale? AG

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Re: Hydrogen to Helium fusion in the VERY early universe.

[Lawrence Crowell]

On Wednesday, November 13, 2019 at 1:14:40 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 13, 2019 at 6:11:46 AM UTC-7, Lawrence Crowell 
> wrote:
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 3:27:08 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 11:03:14 AM UTC-7, Lawrence Crowell 
>>> wrote:

 On Monday, November 11, 2019 at 8:36:35 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
>
> I'm watching a science channel about the BB. It's claimed that in the 
> VERY early universe, a few seconds after the BB, it was so HOT that 
> Hydrogen was fusing into Helium. BUT ... I thought Hydrogen didn't form 
> until around 380,000 years AFTER the BB, when the CMBR formed. What's 
> going 
> on? TIA, AG
>

 You are thinking of hydrogen atoms. After the first three minutes, when 
 EW was unified, there was a 20 minute period where temperatures permitted 
 p 
 + p --> D + e^ + neutrino. These could fuse into He_2^4. A quarter of all 
 protons fused into alpha nuclei. This was predicted and supports BB. The 
 temperature of universe was billions to hundreds of millions K. 
 Interesting 
 that mush fusion happened that quickly. It was later when temperatures 
 dropped below 10,000K or so that hydrogen and helium atoms formed.

 LC

>>>
>>> Yes, the documentary referred to "hydrogen", not protons. Does the BB 
>>> theory explain the existence of protons during the first few seconds or 
>>> minutes using the quantum foam? AG
>>>
>>
>> Protons emerged from a quark-gluon plasma state after about 3 seconds. 
>> This is also around when the EW symmetry broke.
>>
>> LC 
>>
>
> The thrust of my question was about the quantum foam. I note that Bruce 
> emphatically denies the existence of the quantum foam. But the emergence of 
> particles from the vacuum seems to depend on the existence of the quantum 
> foam. So, in your opinion, does the emergence of particles from the vacuum 
> depend on the existence of the quantum foam? TIA, AG 
>

Quantum foam is Planck scale or near Planck scale physics. There are a 
number of definitions of quantum foam. Really all it means is that if you 
try to isolate a quantum bit or qubit in a very small region, the Planck 
length ℓ_p = √Għ/c^3, you find it in a black hole. At this point the energy 
of the probe is equal to the mass of a quantum black hole. If you are not 
trying to isolate information or matter into such as extremely small scale 
spacetime is continuous and smooth all the way to almost infinitesimally 
small length.

LC 

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Re: Hydrogen to Helium fusion in the VERY early universe.

[Alan Grayson]

On Wednesday, November 13, 2019 at 6:11:46 AM UTC-7, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 3:27:08 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 11:03:14 AM UTC-7, Lawrence Crowell 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Monday, November 11, 2019 at 8:36:35 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:

 I'm watching a science channel about the BB. It's claimed that in the 
 VERY early universe, a few seconds after the BB, it was so HOT that 
 Hydrogen was fusing into Helium. BUT ... I thought Hydrogen didn't form 
 until around 380,000 years AFTER the BB, when the CMBR formed. What's 
 going 
 on? TIA, AG

>>>
>>> You are thinking of hydrogen atoms. After the first three minutes, when 
>>> EW was unified, there was a 20 minute period where temperatures permitted p 
>>> + p --> D + e^ + neutrino. These could fuse into He_2^4. A quarter of all 
>>> protons fused into alpha nuclei. This was predicted and supports BB. The 
>>> temperature of universe was billions to hundreds of millions K. Interesting 
>>> that mush fusion happened that quickly. It was later when temperatures 
>>> dropped below 10,000K or so that hydrogen and helium atoms formed.
>>>
>>> LC
>>>
>>
>> Yes, the documentary referred to "hydrogen", not protons. Does the BB 
>> theory explain the existence of protons during the first few seconds or 
>> minutes using the quantum foam? AG
>>
>
> Protons emerged from a quark-gluon plasma state after about 3 seconds. 
> This is also around when the EW symmetry broke.
>
> LC 
>

The thrust of my question was about the quantum foam. I note that Bruce 
emphatically denies the existence of the quantum foam. But the emergence of 
particles from the vacuum seems to depend on the existence of the quantum 
foam. So, in your opinion, does the emergence of particles from the vacuum 
depend on the existence of the quantum foam? TIA, AG 

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Re: Hydrogen to Helium fusion in the VERY early universe.

[Lawrence Crowell]

On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 3:27:08 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 11:03:14 AM UTC-7, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
>>
>> On Monday, November 11, 2019 at 8:36:35 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm watching a science channel about the BB. It's claimed that in the 
>>> VERY early universe, a few seconds after the BB, it was so HOT that 
>>> Hydrogen was fusing into Helium. BUT ... I thought Hydrogen didn't form 
>>> until around 380,000 years AFTER the BB, when the CMBR formed. What's going 
>>> on? TIA, AG
>>>
>>
>> You are thinking of hydrogen atoms. After the first three minutes, when 
>> EW was unified, there was a 20 minute period where temperatures permitted p 
>> + p --> D + e^ + neutrino. These could fuse into He_2^4. A quarter of all 
>> protons fused into alpha nuclei. This was predicted and supports BB. The 
>> temperature of universe was billions to hundreds of millions K. Interesting 
>> that mush fusion happened that quickly. It was later when temperatures 
>> dropped below 10,000K or so that hydrogen and helium atoms formed.
>>
>> LC
>>
>
> Yes, the documentary referred to "hydrogen", not protons. Does the BB 
> theory explain the existence of protons during the first few seconds or 
> minutes using the quantum foam? AG
>

Protons emerged from a quark-gluon plasma state after about 3 seconds. This 
is also around when the EW symmetry broke.

LC 

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Re: Hydrogen to Helium fusion in the VERY early universe.

[Alan Grayson]

On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 11:03:14 AM UTC-7, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
>
> On Monday, November 11, 2019 at 8:36:35 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
>>
>> I'm watching a science channel about the BB. It's claimed that in the 
>> VERY early universe, a few seconds after the BB, it was so HOT that 
>> Hydrogen was fusing into Helium. BUT ... I thought Hydrogen didn't form 
>> until around 380,000 years AFTER the BB, when the CMBR formed. What's going 
>> on? TIA, AG
>>
>
> You are thinking of hydrogen atoms. After the first three minutes, when EW 
> was unified, there was a 20 minute period where temperatures permitted p + 
> p --> D + e^ + neutrino. These could fuse into He_2^4. A quarter of all 
> protons fused into alpha nuclei. This was predicted and supports BB. The 
> temperature of universe was billions to hundreds of millions K. Interesting 
> that mush fusion happened that quickly. It was later when temperatures 
> dropped below 10,000K or so that hydrogen and helium atoms formed.
>
> LC
>

Yes, the documentary referred to "hydrogen", not protons. Does the BB 
theory explain the existence of protons during the first few seconds or 
minutes using the quantum foam? AG

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Re: Hydrogen to Helium fusion in the VERY early universe.

[Lawrence Crowell]

On Monday, November 11, 2019 at 8:36:35 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
>
> I'm watching a science channel about the BB. It's claimed that in the VERY 
> early universe, a few seconds after the BB, it was so HOT that Hydrogen was 
> fusing into Helium. BUT ... I thought Hydrogen didn't form until around 
> 380,000 years AFTER the BB, when the CMBR formed. What's going on? TIA, AG
>

You are thinking of hydrogen atoms. After the first three minutes, when EW 
was unified, there was a 20 minute period where temperatures permitted p + 
p --> D + e^ + neutrino. These could fuse into He_2^4. A quarter of all 
protons fused into alpha nuclei. This was predicted and supports BB. The 
temperature of universe was billions to hundreds of millions K. Interesting 
that mush fusion happened that quickly. It was later when temperatures 
dropped below 10,000K or so that hydrogen and helium atoms formed.

LC

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Re: Hydrogen to Helium fusion in the VERY early universe.

['Brent Meeker' via Everything List]

It's talking about protons (hydogen */nuclei/*) and neutrons fusing into 
alpha particles (helium */nuclei/*). The CMBR was emitted much later 
when it was cool enough for nuclei to capture electrons and become 
hydrogen and helium /*atoms*/.


Brent

On 11/11/2019 6:36 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
I'm watching a science channel about the BB. It's claimed that in the 
VERY early universe, a few seconds after the BB, it was so HOT that 
Hydrogen was fusing into Helium. BUT ... I thought Hydrogen didn't 
form until around 380,000 years AFTER the BB, when the CMBR formed. 
What's going on? TIA, AG

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.


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Hydrogen to Helium fusion in the VERY early universe.

[Alan Grayson]

I'm watching a science channel about the BB. It's claimed that in the VERY 
early universe, a few seconds after the BB, it was so HOT that Hydrogen was 
fusing into Helium. BUT ... I thought Hydrogen didn't form until around 
380,000 years AFTER the BB, when the CMBR formed. What's going on? TIA, AG

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